WHLD Snooze/Talk 1270

[gasman]

Boy...I tried to listen to both local shows on 1270 on Monday and Tuesday and they are really sad. The guys during the 10am - 12pm show are so badly struggling to fill the time that they are almost giddy when somebody finally calls in. I am really disappointed with the morning drive show...I expected more out of Ray Marks. Seems to me he should be the one doing the news..not Metro Networks. After all, that's what he is known for. The discussions are boring....and while they say they won't be fringe station...that's exactly where they are headed. Morning radio on the AM dial needs to be useful to the listener...1270 sounds like a couple of guys just playing around...like you would hear on some internet radio station. Come on guys, more news and how about some topics that really affect people's daily lives! And for God's sake, affiliate yourselves with a network for news at the top and bottom of the hour so we don't have to listen to three minutes of music from Air America to fill time until their programs start! By the way, Ray mentioned his group owns all the equipment and another station...I'm guessing that would be WBBF 1120...first I have heard of that. I can't believe their LMA would include ownership of the transmitters!

 

[Element9]

Still Too Early To Say

> Boy...I tried to listen to both local shows on 1270 on
> Monday and Tuesday and they are really sad. The guys during
> the 10am - 12pm show are so badly struggling to fill the
> time that they are almost giddy when somebody finally calls
> in. I am really disappointed with the morning drive show...I
> expected more out of Ray Marks. Seems to me he should be the
> one doing the news..not Metro Networks. After all, that's
> what he is known for.

Who didn't expect Marks to anchor top and bottom of the hour newscasts rather than be a sidekick? He's better than anything Metro provides and the role of sidekick doesn't fit him or his capabilities. Sounds so out of place. So the question is, why isn't he doing news?

> The discussions are boring....and
> while they say they won't be fringe station...that's exactly
> where they are headed. Morning radio on the AM dial needs to
> be useful to the listener...1270 sounds like a couple of
> guys just playing around...like you would hear on some
> internet radio station. Come on guys, more news and how
> about some topics that really affect people's daily lives!

This is the root of all matters pertaining to radio listening. "What compels the listener to listen?" In the morning, we're compelled to listen to: WBEN because it provides news, traffic and weather; WBFO because it provides NPR news, local news from Mark Wozniak and national issues-driven features; WNED-AM because it too, provides NPR and local information delivered by Sam Anson.

To this point, albeit early in the game, the programing that compels people to listen to WHLD or WWKB in the morning just isn't there (yet.) In the afternoon, Randi Rhodes is a plus for WHLD but she's up against Ed Schultz, who gets the advantage. Stephanie Miller wins the 9-noon competition between the two stations and even Bauerle on WBEN should be concerned by Ms. Miller's presence.

> And for God's sake, affiliate yourselves with a network for
> news at the top and bottom of the hour so we don't have to
> listen to three minutes of music from Air America to fill
> time until their programs start!

Good point. Cover the breaks with call letters/frequency/slogan bumpers and get some promos in those local breaks on Randi's show rather than running the filler music.

> By the way, Ray mentioned
> his group owns all the equipment and another station...I'm
> guessing that would be WBBF 1120...first I have heard of
> that. I can't believe their LMA would include ownership of
> the transmitters!

Hmmmm. Maybe the mixers, mics and audio stuff. But I'd expect Citadel owns the WHLD transmitter and WBBF transmitter and tower. WHLD transmits from the WNED-AM transmitter site and towers on Rogers Road in Hamburg.

By the way, Jeff Simon The Buffalo News' resident elitist-critic-savant, gave WHLD and WWKB some play in his coumn today, and even though he says he's "not a radio guy," I suspect he listens to more radio than he cares to admit. Can't appear to be too common, can you Jeff.

 

[sammy10002]

> Boy...I tried to listen to both local shows on 1270 on
> Monday and Tuesday and they are really sad. The guys during
> the 10am - 12pm show are so badly struggling to fill the
> time that they are almost giddy when somebody finally calls
> in. I am really disappointed with the morning drive show...I
> expected more out of Ray Marks. Seems to me he should be the
> one doing the news..not Metro Networks. After all, that's
> we don't have to
> listen to three minutes of music from Air America to fill
> time until their programs start!


I couldn't agree more. This station sounds so amateur almost from one end of the day to the other. It sounds like some small town station that is staffed by relatives of the owner. Even the much talked about Al Franken show sounds so weak. I cannot believe Air America actually tried to build a network around a veritable radio amateur. Sad. I hear that Ray Marks is a partner. I hope he didn't invest too much in this really, really weak venture.

Those two guys in middays are so incredibly bad that it's pathetic. Check them out if you want to have an appreciation of just how bad radio CAN be.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The Early Returns

It's not necessarily fair to critique the first few days of a new format, but, then again, since when is life fair? And, since when don't people hit the ground running when they're trying to take on an established market leader? So, here goes...

WWKB morning show: Live, not local. Do you really think that WBEN felt the least bit threatened, especially when the weather turned nasty and snow hit the ground over the last few days? Even Len Lenihan was tuning to WBEN for traffic info.

WHLD morning show: Live, local, and disappointing. I expected Ray Marks to do what he does best - hard hitting news. Bring on the co-host and guests for commentary. I don't care if he rips off the newspaper, WBEN, the local TV channels, Metro News, and the AP wire. His writing and delivery skills will give it new life. Right now, that show is DOA. I'm reaching for the WBFO and WNED-AM buttons if I want news/talk.

In fact, I'm reaching for WNED-AM the minute WBFO fires up the jazz. Ed Schultz is better than Randi Rhodes, but WNED-AM beats them both. Notice that I didn't say anything about WBEN here. I will say that Monday afternoon, when the snow was coming down and traffic on the 90 was snarled, Sandy Beach was all over the local traffic situation, putting lots of callers on the air with local condition information. I was in my car. WHLD and WWKB didn't have a chance when the weather was nasty.

> By the way, Jeff Simon The Buffalo News' resident
> elitist-critic-savant, gave WHLD and WWKB some play in his
> coumn today, and even though he says he's "not a radio guy,"
> I suspect he listens to more radio than he cares to admit.
> Can't appear to be too common, can you Jeff.

IIRC, Jeff Simon was an excellent Radio/TV critic earlier in his career. He's generally got an interesting, defensible take on the subjects he chooses. He may be a savant, but that's because he actually KNOWS what he's talking about.

BTW, "The Voice of Reason?" HA. Anybody who thought NPR was "left-wing" now realizes just how moderate they are. They should sue WHLD for misrepresentation.

If things continue as they are, I think they'll be lucky to split a 2.0 share.

And WHTT is getting more of my quarter-hour shares than all of the above combined.

 

[gasman]

The funny thing is...Marks responded on the air to my post. As for him doing news, he said he was in management now. He also said "I don't do that anymore. A sort of changing of the hats if you will." Well Ray, maybe you should lower yourself from your management/ownership position and do the news in the morning. Frankly, your three day old show is lousy. You may be a familiar voice but you are in an unfamiliar role as a talk show cohost. You can bet your station would get more of a sampling if they heard you at the top and bottom of the hour like you were at Entercom. Thats why I tuned in.

Obviously you guys weren't prepared enough to go on the air this past Monday. You have no commerical breaks, no production value in your promos, and little chemistry between you two in the morning. Why have you not lifted any sound for AAR program promos? Hire a voice to do the station ID's and promos, don't use the hosts....Give some spots away to lure customers. Make a deal with one of the local television stations to do news twice an hour or at least to provide the sound. Nobody is listening right now and theres no reason for them to do so.

 

[dampier]

Re: The Early Returns

> In fact, I'm reaching for WNED-AM the minute WBFO fires up
> the jazz. Ed Schultz is better than Randi Rhodes, but
> WNED-AM beats them both.

That's your opinion. I find Schultz to be more grating that Randi, mostly because he sounds eerily like Rush and second because he's not playing to the base that is bound to listen to libtalk to begin with. There's also little/no humor or entertainment value for me on Schultz's show.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Exit Poll

> There's also little/no humor or
> entertainment value for me on Schultz's show.

Well, now that I've had a couple of days to hear Ms. Rhodes, I have to say that she certainly endeavors to be entertaining.

Today alone, I learned that the Nazi's didn't torture, and that our troops in Iraq did at the behest of the Bush administration. Furthermore, the kidnappings in Iraq are the fault of the Bush administration in general, and are a direct result of the actions of our troops at Abu Ghraib in particular. Now THAT'S entertainment. Factually incorrect, logically specious (at best), and completely ignorant of both European and Middle Eastern history, but I guess she's entertaining for her backers. Now, I'm sure that Ms. Rhodes wouldn't engage in hyperbole or mislead her listeners, so I must conclude that she's ill-informed and incapable of truly logical thought.

WNED-AM's "All Things Considered" replaced her on my car radio from that point on, so I don't know what other "facts" she reported to her faithful today. I doubt that I'll know what "facts" she'll report to her faithful tomorrow, or the next day, because I'm not prone to rubbernecking at wreck sites or tuning in just to see what stupidity will annoy me today. I also avoid listening to the B&B Boys on WBEN for the same reason.

Schultz strikes me as somewhat more rational, but still slanted enough that I'm more likely to cycle through WNED-AM, WBFO, WHTT, WGRF, WLKK, and even WBUF before I punch up either 1270 or 1520 again. WBEN may get my business briefly when traffic and/or weather problems seem imminent, but only if Schopp, The Bulldog, and/or Jeremy White are spouting off on a topic so inaccurate or inane that I can't stand listening to them.

It's been an interesting experience, but I'm as done with lib-talk as I am with con-talk. Time to rock on, bro'.

 

[Filthy_Susan]

Re: Exit Poll

> Ms. Rhodes

As I've said so many times in the past, Randi Rhodes is the Rush - Druggie - Limbaugh of the left and should not be trusted any more than he. That, however is significant. Her crap is the flipside of Rush's crap. It balances out even if it smells as dirty - personally, I think Rush is much more loose with the facts.

That's what sells. If you are expecting reasoned debate stick to public broadcasting for at least a reasonable facsimile of such. Better still try the BBC.

 

[Media_Man]

Re: Exit Poll

> > Ms. Rhodes
>
> As I've said so many times in the past, Randi Rhodes is the
> Rush - Druggie - Limbaugh of the left and should not be
> trusted any more than he. That, however is significant. Her
> crap is the flipside of Rush's crap. It balances out even if
> it smells as dirty - personally, I think Rush is much more
> loose with the facts.
>
> That's what sells. If you are expecting reasoned debate
> stick to public broadcasting for at least a reasonable
> facsimile of such. Better still try the BBC.
>

I came to the same conclusion about left/right talk thing as well, with one exception Bill O'reily's Radio Factor. The guy may be pompous, but a lot of what he says makes sense. Further, he is not left or right but a self proclaimed independent (probably so he can attack everyone equally).

 

[dampier]

Re: Exit Poll

> WNED-AM's "All Things Considered" replaced her on my car
> radio from that point on, so I don't know what other "facts"
> she reported to her faithful today. I doubt that I'll know
> what "facts" she'll report to her faithful tomorrow, or the
> next day, because I'm not prone to rubbernecking at wreck
> sites or tuning in just to see what stupidity will annoy me
> today. I also avoid listening to the B&B Boys on WBEN for
> the same reason.

Oh c'mon... like you were planning on spending long hours with Randi anyway.

 

[dampier]

Re: Exit Poll

> > Ms. Rhodes
>
> As I've said so many times in the past, Randi Rhodes is the
> Rush - Druggie - Limbaugh of the left and should not be
> trusted any more than he. That, however is significant. Her
> crap is the flipside of Rush's crap. It balances out even if
> it smells as dirty - personally, I think Rush is much more
> loose with the facts.

Actually, once you zap out the comedy bits, which is where she usually takes liberties on the facts through exaggeration (ie. they're tapping my phone, etc.) she almost always does what Rush doesn't - she has her staff post her documentation on the website and gives out the sources. In fact, she assigns homework to listeners with articles to read.

Randi also tells her listeners not to believe any talk show host, including her. Instead, she tells people to check things out for themselves, which is a distinction between her and Rush "I'm all the news you need" Limbaugh.

> That's what sells. If you are expecting reasoned debate
> stick to public broadcasting for at least a reasonable
> facsimile of such. Better still try the BBC.

Talk radio is not information radio as much as entertainment radio. I love the BBC, and listening to Judy Swallow on Newshour ask hard questions is something most of the media in this country now considers quaint.

 

[dampier]

Re: Exit Poll

> I came to the same conclusion about left/right talk thing as
> well, with one exception Bill O'reily's Radio Factor. The
> guy may be pompous, but a lot of what he says makes sense.
> Further, he is not left or right but a self proclaimed
> independent (probably so he can attack everyone equally).

Ohmygod, that's the funniest thing I've read in here. O'Reilly's affair with actual facts is so fleeting, you could call it a one night stand. There are people earning their paychecks just documenting O'Reilly Factor "facts" as having no relationship with reality, right down to the Wisconsin school district threatening to sue him for making them spend six figures in trying to dispel his made up nonsense about the war on Christmas.

Bill O'Reilly's claim to be a "traditionalist" (a phrase he essentially invented for himself) is a smokescreen. He's a loyal Fox conservative who follows the same party line as the rest of the hosts. On rare occasions, he'll toss a smokebomb at child molestors or big oil, but that is to help reinforce his personal branding.

O'Reilly is trying to out Drudge Drudge in becoming some sort of Walter Winchell populist character of the airwaves. His pompous on-air behavior is now helping Steven Colbert rake in megabucks for his spot-on parody of him on The Colbert Report. Olbermann's ratings are up in part because of Olbermann's fun feud with the guy. And his radio show is being dumped in markets all over the place for low ratings.

 

[Filthy_Susan]

Re: Exit Poll

> > > Ms. Rhodes
> >
> > As I've said so many times in the past, Randi Rhodes is
> the
> > Rush - Druggie - Limbaugh of the left and should not be
> > trusted any more than he. That, however is significant.
> Her
> > crap is the flipside of Rush's crap. It balances out even
> if
> > it smells as dirty - personally, I think Rush is much more
>
> > loose with the facts.
>
> Actually, once you zap out the comedy bits, which is where
> she usually takes liberties on the facts through
> exaggeration (ie. they're tapping my phone, etc.) she almost
> always does what Rush doesn't - she has her staff post her
> documentation on the website and gives out the sources. In
> fact, she assigns homework to listeners with articles to
> read.

I totall agree. She has lots of support for her basic ideas but she does get into these rants where she carries things way too far. I think that hurts the ideas and leave the typical listener with the rant rather than the idea to research further. Those exaggerated rants are one reason I call her the Druggie Limbaugh of the left.

> Randi also tells her listeners not to believe any talk show
> host, including her. Instead, she tells people to check
> things out for themselves, which is a distinction between
> her and Rush "I'm all the news you need" Limbaugh.

Yes.

Partly, I call her the Druggie Limbaugh of the left out of recognition of Druggie's talent. He's a (BLEEP) in my opinion but a talented one. I think she's very talented as well.

> > That's what sells. If you are expecting reasoned debate
> > stick to public broadcasting for at least a reasonable
> > facsimile of such. Better still try the BBC.
>
> Talk radio is not information radio as much as entertainment
> radio. I love the BBC, and listening to Judy Swallow on

It can/could be both. It used to be. There were some I used to respect. Tom Cherrington (CHML/CHCH), Jerry Williams (a conservative) back in the 70's on WBZ, for two. I even used to be a regular Firing Line viewer, ordered transcripts on occassion even.

Too much talk now is just propoganda.

> Newshour ask hard questions is something most of the media
> in this country now considers quaint.

It's a joy to hear a reporter laugh and say "You really aren't trying to tell us..." when interviewing the PM, and be able to back up her assertion with facts. If that happened here they'd make an issue of the challenge as being disrepectful and the media generally would make an issue of that rather than deal with the spin/factual error of the president.

 

[Filthy_Susan]

Re: Exit Poll

> I came to the same conclusion about left/right talk thing as
> well, with one exception Bill O'reily's Radio Factor. The
> guy may be pompous, but a lot of what he says makes sense.
> Further, he is not left or right but a self proclaimed
> independent (probably so he can attack everyone equally).

My impression is quite different. I see him like that guy who did the show out of NY (WOR) way back when, The Loudmouth, I think he called it or himself. Something like that. Smoker. After the show finished cried, "I'm not really like that; it was showbiz." Can't think of his name.

O'Really to me is trying to play Mr. Everyman in the same sense of something like the Blue Collar Show, neither being very respectful of the intelligence of the people.

He strikes me as the kind of guy who would make a good guest on The Jerry Springer Show. Has his own version of Sandy Beach's, "SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUTUP!" hangup on the caller and rant about the caller who dared to challenge him. (What did Bauerle say when some Canadian woman challenged him with facts? Something like, "SHUT UP, you dried up crotch!")

Everybody with some sense will agree with everybody else at some time. Even Beach has his moments. That doesn't change the rest of what he does/is.

When someone says X makes a lot of sense I tend to think of an old Polish proverb ((al la Banacheck) that I'm making up right now.) "Common sense is what you already believe. Facts are what you've yet to learn. One is swallowed easily and relished with joy. The other goes down hard and upsets the senses."

I hope any of this makes sense. I'm tired and about to pass out. Too tired to think.

 

[Element9]

Re: Exit Poll: Answer

> My impression is quite different. I see him like that guy
> who did the show out of NY (WOR) way back when, The
> Loudmouth, I think he called it or himself. Something like
> that. Smoker. After the show finished cried, "I'm not really
> like that; it was showbiz." Can't think of his name.

T'was Morton Downey, Jr.

One comment: WHLD and WWKB should make every sane radio listener who searches for objective news and in-depth reporting appreciate NPR, WNED-AM and WBFO-FM.

I don't know where the hell WHLD is going with their crazy-quilt approach. I'd suggest a roadmap. WWKB is better packaged and Ed Schultz has an act. I give WHLD a year, WWKB two or three. Not much more to write about these two stations unless something drastic happens.

 

[Element9]

I'll Take Irony For 100, Alex

Approximately 8:28, tuning in to WHLD, one hears the tail end of a discussion of NY attorney general Eliot Spitzer's investigation into payola and radio stations that may have been involved in the practice.

The conversation segues into corporate radio's restrictive policies not only toward music programming but news programming. The co-host bemoans the corporatization of news, the down-sizing of newsroom staffing levels and the adverse impact such action has had on the quality and quanitity of information that listeners hear on the radio. His cogent observation is followed by his introducing the news person from Metro News, who does a capable if not cursory three minutes news summary. The most extensive component of the newscast was the weather forecast.

One is left overwhelmed by the irony.

 

[Filthy_Susan]

Re: Exit Poll: Answer

> > My impression is quite different. I see him like that guy
> > who did the show out of NY (WOR) way back when, The
> > Loudmouth, I think he called it or himself. Something like
>
> > that. Smoker. After the show finished cried, "I'm not
> really
> > like that; it was showbiz." Can't think of his name.
>
> T'was Morton Downey, Jr.

Ah, yes, that's the scumbucket. Let us all bow and thank him for his legacy!

> One comment: WHLD and WWKB should make every sane radio
> listener who searches for objective news and in-depth
> reporting appreciate NPR, WNED-AM and WBFO-FM.
>
> I don't know where the hell WHLD is going with their
> crazy-quilt approach. I'd suggest a roadmap. WWKB is better
> packaged and Ed Schultz has an act. I give WHLD a year, WWKB
> two or three. Not much more to write about these two
> stations unless something drastic happens.
>

 

[Obtuse]

Re: Exit Poll

> I came to the same conclusion about left/right talk thing as
> well, with one exception Bill O'reily's Radio Factor. The
> guy may be pompous, but a lot of what he says makes sense.
> Further, he is not left or right but a self proclaimed
> independent (probably so he can attack everyone equally).

And, while openly proclaiming his "independence", turns out he was a registered Repub....until he was called on it. He even tried to pass it off as a "clerical error" ....until the actual form surfaced with his signature and a check mark next to "Republican".

http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/images/registration1.jpg

but then you did say "self-proclaimed"......

 

[Radknowski]

Re: Exit Poll

> And, while openly proclaiming his "independence", turns out
> he was a registered Repub....until he was called on it. He
> even tried to pass it off as a "clerical error" ....until
> the actual form surfaced with his signature and a check mark
> next to "Republican".
>
> http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/images/registration1.jpg
>
> but then you did say "self-proclaimed"......
>

How many people do you think listen to the O'Reily's show on rim shot WLVL? He's up against the King of All Gasbags on WBEN and now he has lib-talkers gunning for him on 1270 and 1520. My guess is eight... maybe ten.

 

[rockinpolkas]

Re: Exit Poll

> > And, while openly proclaiming his "independence", turns
> out
> > he was a registered Repub....until he was called on it. He
>
> > even tried to pass it off as a "clerical error" ....until
> > the actual form surfaced with his signature and a check
> mark
> > next to "Republican".
> >
> > http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/images/registration1.jpg
> >
> > but then you did say "self-proclaimed"......
> >
>
> How many people do you think listen to the O'Reily's show on
> rim shot WLVL? He's up against the King of All Gasbags on
> WBEN and now he has lib-talkers gunning for him on 1270 and
> 1520. My guess is eight... maybe ten.
>

Apparently he's on WSPQ too... http://www.wspq.com/programming.php3