Rumor is that Merlin Media wants an FM in LA, it seems likely that if that happens it will be an information station. So will CBS put KNX on an FM as they did with WBBM in Chicago? And what of KFI? I believe that KFI on FM is closer to becoming a reality than ever before. So which FM will CC blow up for KFI? Believe me, it's going to happen, and I think sooner rather than later.
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Who Goes To FM First? KNX or KFI
- Thread starter calguy
- Start date
KNX is CBS - I would put their FMs in this order of safest to most likely to flip to a simulcast - KRTH, KROQ, KAMP, KTWV, KCBS (most likely)calguy said:
KFI is CC - I would put their FMs in this order of safest to most likely to flip to a simulcast - KIIS, KOST, KBIG, KHHT, KYSR (most likely)
As to if which one will happen first - crap shoot. I do see a likelihood of "ABC Los Angeles" on KABC-AM + KLOS-FM, as well as Merlin launching either an FM News LA 100.3 or FM News LA 93.9.
One problem with Merlin nabbing KXOS: Emmis still has Groupo Radio Centro leasing the station. If anything, chances are that Bonneville's KSWD could be the one they go after.
Merlin could try to buy out the lease, or get Emmis to do it. It's a good signal, I would say better than 100.3.
Most people on these boards have predicted 92.3 for KFI-FM, but HOT is doing better than MyFM by a tenth of a point in the latest 6+ PPM, so they're almost dead even. CC would have to gauge the future success of those stations in order to choose. KYSR is not rated as high, but they don't really have that great a signal, so... Hard to choose.
CBS could make KCBS, KNX-FM again, and could potentially help KROQ by doing so as many have also said that KROQ lost numbers to JACK.
Most people on these boards have predicted 92.3 for KFI-FM, but HOT is doing better than MyFM by a tenth of a point in the latest 6+ PPM, so they're almost dead even. CC would have to gauge the future success of those stations in order to choose. KYSR is not rated as high, but they don't really have that great a signal, so... Hard to choose.
CBS could make KCBS, KNX-FM again, and could potentially help KROQ by doing so as many have also said that KROQ lost numbers to JACK.
only1moore said:
KXOS is doing quite wrechedly. There have always been just about 3 Spanish pop/CHR shares in LA, and that is what KSSE and KXOS are splitting now.
Let's suppose that publicly traded Grupo Radio Centro is feeling some stress over LA. And Merlin is feeling well financed. Then Merlin buys out the GRC contract, accelerates the option to buy, and both are happy; Emmis might like this since they got both cash and equity out of the Chicago deals.
I have a really hard time visualizing the heads of Merlin and Bonneville sitting at a negotiating table.
calguy said:
KBIG is running between 5th and 7th in 18-49 and 25-54. Major performer, and a tight fit with KIIS and KOST.
KHHT is running around 12th, give or take.
It has been suggested that KYSR be killed, with the KHHT format moving to 98.7. The signal is certainly good for KHHT demo, and that would free up slightly better 92.3 for talk. If, indeed, they feel a need to protect KFI, already top 5 in 25-54, with an FM.
The KYSR signal is better than the KROQ signal (11.9 million in the 65 dbu vs. 10.1 million for KROQ) so KHHT would be fine on that channel. But... it leaves KROQ unchallenged, and that might be something that the CC cluster wants to avoid... remember, they used Indie at first to chip at KROQ, and when that was no longer allowed, they moved KYSR in the way. Keeping other stations in check protects leading stations like KBIG, KIIS and KOST in their 25-54 ranks.
Thanks David. I did not have access to the demos, only 6+ and I knew that would figure into it. And in that scenario blowing up 98.7 makes more sense than KHHT. Hot fits in with the other stations in the cluster than KYSR.
I do believe that you're right about 93.9 as well. It would be a better fit than 100.3 signal wise and as I mentioned earlier Merlin could go for a buy out and purchase 93.9. It makes sense and as you said, can't see Merlin's chief exec sitting down with Bonneville.
I do believe that you're right about 93.9 as well. It would be a better fit than 100.3 signal wise and as I mentioned earlier Merlin could go for a buy out and purchase 93.9. It makes sense and as you said, can't see Merlin's chief exec sitting down with Bonneville.
If KFI went to FM what would be the likeliest fate of the 640 signal? Would it continue as KFI along with KFI-FM, or get a new set of call letters and a new format? The 750 in Portland moved the KXL call to FM and launched a new sports station with new call letters. And if 640 got a new format, what might the possibilities be? Do you think there might be any public outcry to save the historic call letters, I think that happened with WSM a few years ago, but I could be wrong on that.
Lopaka said:
In a PPM world call letters are irrelevant, and listeners are more likely to recall slogans or frequencies anyway. Only radio history geeks have any concern for longstanding calls, and the number of such people is microscopic. Nostalgia for the 1920's doesn't pay bills in 2011 and beyond.
But that same irrelevance is also what would save the KFI call on 640, as there is no real reason to change it in the event of a format flip.
Mediafrog+ said:
When PPM came along I heard a lot of talk about what no longer matters like call letters, with some stations only going by their frequency. Yes, you no longer need to write down call letters, but you need to identify the station somehow. For the FCC call letters work. For the average Joe, they need a dial position, and from a marketing, or branding stand-point you still need to call it something, and there are only so many slogans or names you can give a station, so in some cases, call letters will still be your identifier, and most talk and information stations still use call letters especially since many of the big AM leaders in these formats are old line AM stations with long history's. Why change if you don't have to? Plus you have all of that name recognition. I think KFI will simulcast AM and FM and will continue to do so until the AM's numbers fall far enough over time, and they probably will.
M
musicfan101
Guest
Suggested where?? I've always heard that 98.7 is beating KROQ in numerous dayparts!DavidEduardo said:
musicfan101 said:
... suggested in a prior post in this thread.
KYSR had a preiod of significan challenge to KROQ outside mornings, but KROQ is quite dominant now.
Lopaka said:
For the immediate future, KFI would have to simulcast. And... what uncovered option is there for AM? News is not a big format... big enough for two to survive... and LA is definitely not a sports town, in part due to lack of NFL presence and mostly due to the ethnic and language issues.
I would think the first ones to flip would be your frequencies that are constantly changing formats such as 93.9 or 100.3 Then I'd look to the formats that may be past their prime such as KTWV or KYSR. A thought, what about 92.7 being flipped? They have the triangulated signal which covers most of LA from what i've heard in my travels. (Granted not well, but still listenable)
As for me personally, I'd hate to see KFI give up the AM signal. I can pick it up just about anywhere on AM. And with talk radio you don't need the better sound of an FM.(97.1 didn't impress me) Yes, you may have less interference, but you lose the signal much faster.
Just my $0.02 cents and i'm not sure it's worth that.
As for me personally, I'd hate to see KFI give up the AM signal. I can pick it up just about anywhere on AM. And with talk radio you don't need the better sound of an FM.(97.1 didn't impress me) Yes, you may have less interference, but you lose the signal much faster.
Just my $0.02 cents and i'm not sure it's worth that.
Uncle Rob said:
Neither are Clear Channel owned. The discussion is whether KFI would be motivated to add an FM simulcast in light of the rumors of KXOS going to Merlin (and whose owners did similar deals already in NY and Chicago)
KTWV switched to smooth AC early last year, and has actually improved the sales demo audience somewhat. That's not an old format.
KYSR is not quite as high as it was last year at time, but it is a major block against KROQ ranking higher. However, Clear could move the Hot to 98.7 and put a simulcast of KFI on the better Channel 222.
They put a usable signal over less than 15% of the LA market. The Ventura County signal is out of market, although it bleeds a bit into the western San Fernando Valley. Fountain Valley brings about 1.7 million under its usable signal, and the Victor Valley signal is two markets away from LA... no use at all.
For the moment, they would not give it up, I believe... they would simulcast.
You need FM because people under 55 grew up on FM and don't use AM at all or very little. The sound is better, the coverage comparable or better for the average listener, and there is no noise and static and buzzing and you can listen while the TV is on, too.
Lopaka said:
WSM was not so much about the call letters as it was (and is) about the Grand Ole Opry. It would be sad for this 55 yr old to see KFI's calls disappear just in time for their 90th anniversary next year.Nonetheless, heritage means very little here in this market (all the really old heritage calls except KFI, KNX, KFWB, KHJ moved frequencies or disappeared all together---and yes, I know all about the KHJ debacle ;D )
In a related question, does anyone have any percentage numbers for KFI online (iheartradio) vs over the air listening? Is streaming listening encoded for people meter or do they use streaming numbers to sell. I'm 50, a heavy AM user, (KFI/KNX) and surprisingly, 100% of my in-home listening is now on iPhone or iPad. The table radios have gone in the closet for emergency use.
I doubt streaming share is big enough yet to have any influence on the AM/FM debate. I don't even listen to FM anymore, instead subscribed podcasts for public radio and streaming music at home and even in the car with 3G.
I doubt streaming share is big enough yet to have any influence on the AM/FM debate. I don't even listen to FM anymore, instead subscribed podcasts for public radio and streaming music at home and even in the car with 3G.
gcreedle239 said:
All the listening for "KFI" in Arbitron is for over the air. If it is streaming, it is listed separtely as "KFI Stream." Since the stream is not a 100% duplication of the air signal, it must be listed separately.
Streaming is encoded, with a separate and different code from the air signal unless it is a 100% simulcast, which it is not.
If you had a meter, then your listening would go to KFI-stream.
KFI's stream has averaged a o.1 share for the last 3 book... and in one of the months it did not even "make" the book.
So if KNX or KFI were to go to FM, I was wondering.... What would it take to have an FM, from a single transmitter site, have a 100% reliable signal 24/7 that the general population (not just DXers) would listen to - out to and possibly even beyond the farthest reaches of the AM's ultra-fringe skywave signal, where a seasoned DXer could just barely detect a trace of a QRSS CW carrier ... assuming they had +/- 200 kHz of spectrum on AM all to themselves?
Or am I the only one that doesn't like it when AM stations with a big footprint give up their coverage to move to FM?
Also speaking of listening in Metro areas... so it seems most listening is done inside the 10 mV/m contour. Are people insisting on 140 dB S/N ratios (unmodulated carrier vs. noise peaks from point-blank lightning strikes, for example) on the radio they listen to, or are most consumer radios so unsensitive that the minimum detectable signal during a region-wide power blackout (maybe even too weak to produce a het in SSB mode on such an equipped receiver) is 10 mV/m?
Or am I the only one that doesn't like it when AM stations with a big footprint give up their coverage to move to FM?
Also speaking of listening in Metro areas... so it seems most listening is done inside the 10 mV/m contour. Are people insisting on 140 dB S/N ratios (unmodulated carrier vs. noise peaks from point-blank lightning strikes, for example) on the radio they listen to, or are most consumer radios so unsensitive that the minimum detectable signal during a region-wide power blackout (maybe even too weak to produce a het in SSB mode on such an equipped receiver) is 10 mV/m?
calguy said:
That sounds good to move the KCBS-FM calls over to 106.9 FM in San Francisco since most younger Bay area residents listen to KCBS on FM and drop the KFRC FM but i'm sot sure if Jack is really ready to change its call letters? and 2 KCBS in theory should have went to 1070 and 93.1 in LA and KQW should in theory have kept its call letters on 740 or 106.9. but the KCBS calls have been in San Francisco since the days when San Francisco was seen as the big media market.
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