Who is in charge at Citadel?

[boogiecheck]

Citadel is going out of their way in my opinion to damage the brand of WNOX. Come Monday morning when Citadel is no longer running the show at 100.3 they will find out what damage WNOX can do with 100,000 watts while their little 8000 watt is just a wimper and not a loud one at that.

Agreed.

Who will be the first person put in front of the squad?

 

[trapper12]

No need to put anyone in front of the squad. They are already doing a really good job at comitting suicide.

 

[boogiecheck]

No need to put anyone in front of the squad. They are already doing a really good job at comitting suicide.

So true. I guess Kinko's will be getting a lot of visits by former 98.7 employees soon. Many resumes to send out.

 

[trapper12]

By the end of the year 98.7 will either be back to oldies or some other music format and be mostly if not fully automated. The only reason I give them til the end of the year is for the tax write off because that little 8000 watter is gonna bleed money like its on blood thinner.

 

[gr8oldies]

Citadel is going out of their way in my opinion to damage the brand of WNOX. Come Monday morning when Citadel is no longer running the show at 100.3 they will find out what damage WNOX can do with 100,000 watts while their little 8000 watt is just a wimper and not a loud one at that.

I would agree. The question remains; why doesn't Pirkle pull the plug now? If it goes to court, all he has to do is play the loop (especially as it gets more ridiculous by the hour) and he wins.

I don't doubt that Citadel's reputation with the advertising community is being and will continue to be damaged; unless someone has a comparable signal and a lot of money to throw at WIVK, no one is going to be taking 6 to 8 points away from them. Maybe some of you see B97.5 or Star 102.1 flipping, but, even being new to the area, somehow I don't.

 

[trapper12]

Pirkle is playing it cool. Why should he go to the trouble of hanging Citadel when Citadel is doing such a wonderful job of doing it themselves. He is going to be laughing all the way to the bank when 100.3 reverts back to him in about 72hrs. I would agree with you on WIVK but with the pure genious management style Citadel has shown as of late a 500 watt automated AM could end up beating the Frog.

 

[boogiecheck]

Pirkle is just doing what he does best. Waiting. If what the Citadel crew has done in the past is any indication of what they're going to do in the future he's recording until it is time to drop kick them through the (legal) goal posts of life.

And according to my calendar it's only about 36 hours until 100.3 is talk again.

 

[trapper12]

I stand corrected on the time. I hope Pirkle does lay it to Citadel.

 

[BRice16]

You all seem to think that WNOX is going to still be a top-3 station when they "return" next week. I just don't understand that line of thinking at all. Certainly, the 98.7 signal is much weaker outside of the metro. But they still have the programming. I don't understand the logic in thinking that because listeners can't pick up HHH and Limbaugh on 98.7, they're automatically going to start listening to Brantley and Dave Ramsey. I don't see it happening that way at all. I certainly don't foresee people dropping John and Jimmy on the Sports Animal to listen to Dave Hooker on WNOX. Hooker isn't an overly popular figure with a lot of fans as it is, so I don't see him taking a large chunk out of John and Jimmy or becoming an alternative to lost Phil Williams listeners.

Now, IF in a year we're talking about a WNOX that has bought out HHH or Limbaugh or both, then you may have an argument. But I think the "angry" listeners are more fans of the programming than they are of the station or the call letters. People in East Tennessee love Ed Brantley, but let's not forget he hasn't done anything on-air other than commercials in over 10 years. And they're used to him playing music.

I think it's a lot more likely that WOKI is plugging along in a year with a lower share, but enough to pay the bills and WNOX is either getting similiar numbers to WOKI or getting ready to take on somebody's music signal after they take back over WNFZ.

 

[boogiecheck]

You all seem to think that WNOX is going to still be a top-3 station when they "return" next week. I just don't understand that line of thinking at all. Certainly, the 98.7 signal is much weaker outside of the metro. But they still have the programming. I don't understand the logic in thinking that because listeners can't pick up HHH and Limbaugh on 98.7, they're automatically going to start listening to Brantley and Dave Ramsey. I don't see it happening that way at all. I certainly don't foresee people dropping John and Jimmy on the Sports Animal to listen to Dave Hooker on WNOX. Hooker isn't an overly popular figure with a lot of fans as it is, so I don't see him taking a large chunk out of John and Jimmy or becoming an alternative to lost Phil Williams listeners.

Now, IF in a year we're talking about a WNOX that has bought out HHH or Limbaugh or both, then you may have an argument. But I think the "angry" listeners are more fans of the programming than they are of the station or the call letters. People in East Tennessee love Ed Brantley, but let's not forget he hasn't done anything on-air other than commercials in over 10 years. And they're used to him playing music.

I think it's a lot more likely that WOKI is plugging along in a year with a lower share, but enough to pay the bills and WNOX is either getting similiar numbers to WOKI or getting ready to take on somebody's music signal after they take back over WNFZ.

I can't figure this one out. You're either a Citadel employee, putting on a brave face while knowing that the single largest blunder in local media history has taken place or you're simply unaware of the reality of the situation.

WNOX vs No Name 8000 watt newb. It doesn't take an ORNL rockethead to figure out that winner.

 

[BRice16]

I can't figure this one out. You're either a Citadel employee, putting on a brave face while knowing that the single largest blunder in local media history has taken place or you're simply unaware of the reality of the situation.

WNOX vs No Name 8000 watt newb. It doesn't take an ORNL rockethead to figure out that winner.

I'm definitely not a Citadel employee, but I also am not letting some hatred of that company or someone over there cloud my opinion. Certainly, losing the 100.3 signal is a mistake on the part of Citadel, but it wasn't the call of their local management.

The issue that you continue to ignore is the programming. Obviously, the 98.7 signal is far weaker than 100.3. But they're not a "No Name 8000 watt newb" they are a known property with shows and talent that people in the Knoxville market are used to listening to. The "new" WNOX doesn't have that. They have a better signal.

But I don't think it's even reasonable to assume that people will simply replace one with the other. A fan of Hal Hill isn't going to automatically start listening to Brantley and Thomas. Someone that listens to Rush isn't going to suddenly become a Dave Ramsey fan, that's not even the same type of show. Ditto for Phil Williams vs. Dave Hooker. One is a general topic show, the other is sports.

Certainly the numbers for 98.7 are going to tumble a bit from where they were on 100.3. There's no question about that. But I don't see any way WNOX goes up by the same number. It's just as likely that people that can't pick up 98.7 will return to music.

WNOX will get some numbers, but programming and signal are two different things, and I think you have lost sight of that.

 

[Tennessee Cowboy]

Perhaps a sports analogy would best illustrate Mr. boogiecheck's point:

Think of this as the '08 Wyoming/Tennessee game. Only Coach Fulmer was told to leave his office that morning so that Coach Kiffin could call in plays from the USC Future Coaches' Carpet, Drape, and Office Furnishings Store. And Peyton Manning is the quarterback and head coach at Wyoming. And UT's president and Tennessee's governor just raided the teacher's pension fund.

Citadel has talented players but no leadership. And none on the horizon.

 

[Tennessee Cowboy]

And UT, having bought Carson-Newman college years before, is proud to have Burke-Tarr Stadium as its new home next season after losing its lease at Neyland.

How much closer can we get with this analogy. Anyone?

 

[BRice16]

And UT, having bought Carson-Newman college years before, is proud to have Burke-Tarr Stadium as its new home next season after losing its lease at Neyland.

How much closer can we get with this analogy. Anyone?

But it would be incorrect to assume that the new tenant of Neyland Stadium would automatically pick up all of UT's fans when it's a different product.

Look, if we were talking music, where it's the same product delivered differently, then it would be a no-brainer. If South Central sold off the WJXB signal, moved B97.5's to 106.7, then had the new owner of the 97.5 frequency launch an AC station, then you're correct, jocks or not, the "old" B wouldn't have a chance because of the signal. But talk radio is fundamentally different. People aren't fans of a talk radio format like they are of country, AC, etc. They are fans of specific programming. In the absence of Rush Limbaugh, people aren't automatically going to flock to Dave Ramsey.

 

[boogiecheck]

I am not letting "hatred cloud" anything. I'm stating what the facts are and the facts are Hal isn't very strong. Beck isn't going to be strong, Phil is stronger than Hal, but not by much, and not stronger than when they had John & Jimmy on, Hannity does well, but he's not pulling the numbers Savage had, which anyone in the building were used to seeing in that slot.

WNOX will have Boortz and Savage who always pulled good numbers for Citadel. Ramsey, who does very well against Rush in similar markets and Ingraham who has done very well in Knoxville on a small AM. Roll all that together with Ed & Bob in the morning, each of which were in the Top 10 of the most listened to air personalities in AMERICA, Dave Hooker & Terry Fair doing sports in PM drive, (remember when John and Jimmy (and Mike Keith before them) did the same thing on 100.3 before the Sports Animal?) Ratings gold.

98.7 can't possibly carry over the ratings of 100.3 as they have lost their top tier programs (other than Rush) to 100.3.

 

[BRice16]

I am not letting "hatred cloud" anything. I'm stating what the facts are and the facts are Hal isn't very strong. Beck isn't going to be strong, Phil is stronger than Hal, but not by much, and not stronger than when they had John & Jimmy on, Hannity does well, but he's not pulling the numbers Savage had, which anyone in the building were used to seeing in that slot.

WNOX will have Boortz and Savage who always pulled good numbers for Citadel. Ramsey, who does very well against Rush in similar markets and Ingraham who has done very well in Knoxville on a small AM. Roll all that together with Ed & Bob in the morning, each of which were in the Top 10 of the most listened to air personalities in AMERICA, Dave Hooker & Terry Fair doing sports in PM drive, (remember when John and Jimmy (and Mike Keith before them) did the same thing on 100.3 before the Sports Animal?) Ratings gold.

98.7 can't possibly carry over the ratings of 100.3 as they have lost their top tier programs (other than Rush) to 100.3.

Of course, Ed and Bob were last listened to in the 80s, so there's that.

By the way, John and Jimmy were only on 100.3 for about four months. They (and Mike Keith before them) were on 99.1/990 when NewsTalk was there, and were simulcast on The Sports Animal and 100.3 from the April flip until the debut of the Phil show in September or October of that year.

I don't foresee fans of John and Jimmy suddenly flocking to Dave Hooker, especially not with the heavy-hitter guest lineup that they have access to.

 

[boogiecheck]

I am not letting "hatred cloud" anything. I'm stating what the facts are and the facts are Hal isn't very strong. Beck isn't going to be strong, Phil is stronger than Hal, but not by much, and not stronger than when they had John & Jimmy on, Hannity does well, but he's not pulling the numbers Savage had, which anyone in the building were used to seeing in that slot.

WNOX will have Boortz and Savage who always pulled good numbers for Citadel. Ramsey, who does very well against Rush in similar markets and Ingraham who has done very well in Knoxville on a small AM. Roll all that together with Ed & Bob in the morning, each of which were in the Top 10 of the most listened to air personalities in AMERICA, Dave Hooker & Terry Fair doing sports in PM drive, (remember when John and Jimmy (and Mike Keith before them) did the same thing on 100.3 before the Sports Animal?) Ratings gold.

98.7 can't possibly carry over the ratings of 100.3 as they have lost their top tier programs (other than Rush) to 100.3.

Of course, Ed and Bob were last listened to in the 80s, so there's that.

By the way, John and Jimmy were only on 100.3 for about four months. They (and Mike Keith before them) were on 99.1/990 when NewsTalk was there, and were simulcast on The Sports Animal and 100.3 from the April flip until the debut of the Phil show in September or October of that year.

I don't foresee fans of John and Jimmy suddenly flocking to Dave Hooker, especially not with the heavy-hitter guest lineup that they have access to.

It wouldn't matter if they were last on in 1962. They have 100,000 watts of pure power, reaching into Virgina, Kentucky, North Carolina, Georgia and Alabama. That's more than the metro and clearly more than the two or three counties (about 1/3 of the metro BTW) HHH penetrates with 98.7.

John & Jimmy? Heavy hitters? I was under the impression that they were personae non gratae with the UT Athletic Department? I guess you didn't see where Dave and Terry were having Dooley, Hamilton and ERIC BERRY (talk about a heavy hitter) on-air with them kicking off their show on Monday.

Look, I hope 98.7 has a lot of success. I just know that they're not going to have the success that 100.3 has had and will continue to have.

 

[BRH]

Hey, I'm actually enjoying some of the current stunt programming on 100.3. Did anybody else catch the classic Cas Walker bits. They had commercials from him and an old interview with him saying "if anyone tried to rob anyone at one of his stores, he'd have security beat the h*ell out of the b*stards". And also, telling them to "come on down and try it and he'd beat the h*ll out of them himself". I was rolling laughing. Also, they aired a really cool news story from WTVK "NewCenter 26" on the 1982 Worlds Fair. Heck, this stunt is a lot more interesting than the usual right wing, blowhards that normally occupy the frequency.

Anyway, as far as 100.3 vs. 98.7 goes, I also think Pirkle and 100.3 will win in the long run. I think you'll see Hal and Phil eventually sit out non compete clauses and cross the street. Or Citadel will fire them because of budget reasons, and run more cheap syndicated stuff in their place. Also, I don't know the rating breakdown, but I find it hard to believe that Phil would be considered more of a draw or asset than Hal. I don't believe that at all. I think Hal is certainly the biggest draw Citadel has. (Phil is boring and repetitive. His "good ole' boy schtick wore thin 20 years ago). Also, as far as syndicated programming goes, what about Neil Boortz and his draw. He has a HUGE following in the area, and I think dumping him for Glenn Beck was a really boneheaded move. Boortz is more entertaining and interesting than Rush, and certainly better than Beck or Hannity. At least Boortz has the guts to have differing opinions, instead of just towing the right wing line like all the others. Anyway, I do hate that 100.3 decided not to carry Alan Colmes though. It would have been great to have a liberal on the air. His show is pretty fun (I listen often on Sirius). Also, he may be liberal, but it would be cool, because most of his show is based on conservatives that love to hate him.

Anyway, I think 100.3 will be the winner in this fight. It may take awhile, but I do think it will happen. I see 98.7 either going back to a music format eventually (or continuing with talk, but doing it cheaply by dropping local talent and going with all syndication).

Also, I think Dave Ramsey is the weakest link in 100.3's current programming lineup. But I think he's just a fill in till they can get Rush to come over. (Ramsey is too "preachy" for my tastes. If I were going to listen to a financial/consumer type show, I prefer Clark Howard over Dave Ramsey). And, on a sidenote, wonder what WETR "Talk Radio 760" is going to do now. 100.3 is stealing two of their current shows (Ramsey and Ingraham). Will they stay talk or go back to religious programming. (Not that anyone really cares or would notice ;D)

 

[trapper12]

With money being as tight as it is advertisers are gonna go with the biggest bang for the buck. At 100,000 watts WNOX has the much bigger bang than 8000 watt WOKI.

 

[BillBattle]

BRice ... you forget one thing, RIMSHOT FM's are for Oldies, Smooth Jazz, The River, Alternative, JACK FM, Spanish lang. etc. This is East Tennessee and the most sucessful radio stations, long term, are on 100,000 watts and on a tall tower or mountain top at 2,000 feet HAAT. Citadel did not count on Pirkle going News/Talk, keeping the WNOX call letters and hiring Ed Brantley. I guess they thought Pirkle was going to sign 100.3 off the air and give the frequency back to the FCC when they voided their LMA contract. That is what happens when you have too many radio stations to manage and no leadership as Citadel as demonstrated.

98.7 has been the dumping ground for every failed format in the Citadel/Dick cluster for the last fiften years and you can't change that. The bean counters in Las Vegas/New York are going to flip that format to a less cost (that is anything other than talk) faster than a grill cook on Sunday morning at the IHOP.