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who is responsible for Cincinnati beating Cleveland

T

tcsnrayp

Guest
Oh oh... it finally happened...

Arbitron Fall '08:

#28 Cincinnati, OH 1,773,000 (UP from 1,751,400 in Summer '08)
#29 Cleveland, OH 1,764,400 (DOWN from 1,782,400 in Summer '08)

This means Cleveland is behind by 8,600 people.
 
"The problem is, we have a problem."-Cleveland mayor Frank Jackson
 
Onr of the problems that a good deal of Cleveland's growing bedroom communities (i.e. Streetsboro, Twinsburg, Hudson, Aurora, etc.) are in Summit or Portage County and not considered part of the Cleveland metro.

Cleveland broadcasters should get together and request that Summit-North and Portage-North counties be added to the Cleveland market definition. (A similar move occurred in the early '80's when Lorain County was added.) Those roughly 115,000 12+ souls residing in those exurban areas should boost the metro population to around 1,879,400 which should move us up to #26.
 
To be honest, Cincinnati radio seems to be a bit stronger than Cleveland's cookie-cutter garbage lately. Cleveland, Cincinnati or anywhere really there's just better options than commercial radio anymore. More and more people are finding much better alternatives to commercial radio - Pandora, Slacker, SiriusXM, Internet Radio, Podcasts - all are geared more to the audience than to the advertiser. The bigger the city, the bigger the decline in listenership - that would be my guess for these cumes.
 
"One of the problems that a good deal of Cleveland's growing bedroom communities (i.e. Streetsboro, Twinsburg, Hudson, Aurora, etc.) are in Summit or Portage County and not considered part of the Cleveland metro.

Cleveland broadcasters should get together and request that Summit-North and Portage-North counties be added to the Cleveland market definition. (A similar move occurred in the early '80's when Lorain County was added.) Those roughly 115,000 12+ souls residing in those exurban areas should boost the metro population to around 1,879,400 which should move us up to #26."


This was proposed a few years ago..but Akron's public officals at the time went nuts when it was suggested..and it was shelved..if you want to take it even further..why not add Canton, North Canton, Green, and Massillon to the Metro as well?
 
Maybe the time has come to re-visit this. I don't know why the Akron officials should have a problem with a radio metric. I'm not suggesting taking away those counties from Akron, just creating an overlapping metro. Yes I know, Arbitron has been discouraging that practice in recent years, but money talks and the infrastructure is already there to measure those counties. There are similar situations where metros either overlap or are totally embedded. One that comes to mind in terms of an overlapping Metro is Monmouth-Ocean. Monmouth county (NJ) is in the New York MSA. Ocean is not. The NY MSA has several other totally embedded metros. It can be done.

I don't think that LA (Lower Akron), Canton, Massillon, or anything other than those upper-tier communities of Summit and Portage Counties should be added to the Cleveland Market. However, the Akron and Canton markets probably also could be combined into a signle (and larger) metro since there is a huge amount of crossover between these two markets. Supposedly, WHBC has been fighting this for years. They'ree huge in Canton but practically non-existent in Akron... but getting "their" (Canton) market bumped into the Top 75 might help their national dollars. There could still be an embedded Canton market.

This would take a concerted effort on the parts of broadcasters and maybe a little (financial) pressure on Arbitron but would make for more realistic audience data that conforms to where people actually live, work, and shop, rather than outdated government SMSA definitions.
 
I think television bases their market rankings on a "Trading" area? The logical metropolitan area would seem to look like what SonoSational18 has described.
 
tcsnrayp said:
I think television bases their market rankings on a "Trading" area? The logical metropolitan area would seem to look like what SonoSational18 has described.
Click to expand...
Television uses the DMA (Designated Market Area). The Cleveland DMA which includes the Cleveland, Akron, and Canton metros, as well as Ashtabula, New Philadelphia, Ashland, Mansfield, and Sandusky is about 3.4 million people and ranks around #17. DMA's, however, are based on TV viewership. Each county in the country is assigned to a DMA based on which city's stations has the largest percentage of viewership. DMA's do not overlap and counties are re-assigned annually if viewership patterns change. Over the past several decades, Columbiana County has been assigned to the Cleveland, Wheeling-Steubenville, and the Youngstown DMA at various times. The DMA, however doesn't reflect a radio market.... at least not the Cleveland DMA. There are only a couple of powerful AM stations that are listenable in more than half of the DMA... hence different definitions for radio and TV markets.
 
"I don't think that LA (Lower Akron), Canton, Massillon, or anything other than those upper-tier communities of Summit and Portage Counties should be added to the Cleveland Market. However, the Akron and Canton markets probably also could be combined into a signle (and larger) metro since there is a huge amount of crossover between these two markets. Supposedly, WHBC has been fighting this for years. They're huge in Canton but practically non-existent in Akron... but getting "their" (Canton) market bumped into the Top 75 might help their national dollars. There could still be an embedded Canton market"

WHBC under Beaverkettle may have fought it...but I doubt NextMedia would even blink at the idea since they need all the ad dollars they can find...as far as WHBC being "huge" in Canton, those days are rapidly drawing to a close..take at look at the latest Arbs, and you'll find that the FM and a country competitor are pretty much even at this point...When Clear Channel moved WKDD into the market, they were finally able to crack a lot of the monoploy on ad dollars that Beaverkettle had, by selling spots at a fraction of what HBC was charging, and their sales people were able to finally show agencies and individual clients that buying WHBC on their 12+ number was a bad investment..Clear Channel also did a nice job targeting the suburban markets--Green, North Canton and elsewhere..and made that territory their own..by the time they were finished, NextMedia never knew what hit it..
 
The Cincinnati market radio stations have always had a much stronger presence. They sonically sound much more superior than Cleveland stations and market wise work harder for their audience. Cleveland is a great market but radio is a little "slower" today compared to the past.

As for creating another market:

I have always thought that Cleveland should create an overlap market with the northern tier of Summit and Portage counties. I also feel that Canton should annex Tusky county into the market to help balance that out.

Another option is to create the "AKRON/CANTON" market which includes the southern tier of Summit and Portage, plus Stark and add Wayne County. This combined market would have roughly 835,000 residents which would make it #60. If Canton only added Tusky it would become #106 and if it added Wayne it would become #83
 
Yes, Akron should be a part of the Cleveland measuring...it is in TV, which puts Cleveland #16 for Television.

As for radio, they do include and separate markets for measurement....they do it for LA (and then have Riverside measured alone as well) and they do for NY, with Long Island, the LI measured separately.

But the truth is Cleveland is losing pop because it is losing jobs and the economy...Detroit,another rust belt city used to be Top 10, but is losing people for the same reason...tough economics and few jobs in the area.

Pittsburgh has grown in size, but dropped a bit in market size...they seem to have been fortunate to grow beyond its blue collars roots to attract tech jobs and and other sectors outside of manufacturing...
 
Akron should definitely be rolled into the Cleveland market. Seven of the top 10 stations 12+ in today's monthly Akron numbers are stations out of Cleveland. Looks like the population increase would place Cleveland-Akron at #23, right behind Denver in market rank.
 
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