P
Phantom
Guest
Male or female?
Age?
Income?
Education?
White or blue collar job?
etc., etc., etc.
Age?
Income?
Education?
White or blue collar job?
etc., etc., etc.
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Anyone who has one foot in the grave as some will have you believe :>)
I took what many would consider one of the better (in terms of success and even acceptance by hard core oldies critics) oldies stations in the US, KOOL in Phoenix. Here is a bit of what I came up with.
> Male or female?
Men 57%, Women 43%.
>
> Age?
50% over 55. Average age 51. 34% don't work, 10% don't work fulltime.
>
> Income?
33% income over $75,000
>
> Education?
30% college graduates.
>
> White or blue collar job?
To vague a question. Income level is better indicator.
The real problem is that when you run an 18-49 ranker (and 18-49 is becoming a frequent buying demo) the station is not even in the top 10. It is not that they do not have under 50 or under 55 audience... it is that there are so many stations that have more of it that oldies stations get left off the buy.
> Male or female?
Men 57%, Women 43%.
>
> Age?
50% over 55. Average age 51. 34% don't work, 10% don't work fulltime.
>
> Income?
33% income over $75,000
>
> Education?
30% college graduates.
>
> White or blue collar job?
To vague a question. Income level is better indicator.
The real problem is that when you run an 18-49 ranker (and 18-49 is becoming a frequent buying demo) the station is not even in the top 10. It is not that they do not have under 50 or under 55 audience... it is that there are so many stations that have more of it that oldies stations get left off the buy.
>
> Or anyone who has given up on terrestrial radio oldies
> (because terrestrial radio has given up on THEM) and moved
> on to satellite.
>
You are shooting the messenger again. Terrestrial radio has not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that oldies produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve that audience group.
But you are right on one thing: satellite or Internet radio is a perfect way to serve these unattractive advertising targets.
> Or anyone who has given up on terrestrial radio oldies
> (because terrestrial radio has given up on THEM) and moved
> on to satellite.
>
You are shooting the messenger again. Terrestrial radio has not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that oldies produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve that audience group.
But you are right on one thing: satellite or Internet radio is a perfect way to serve these unattractive advertising targets.
P
Phantom
Guest
> You are shooting the messenger again. Terrestrial radio has
> not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that oldies
> produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve that
> audience group.
>
> But you are right on one thing: satellite or Internet radio
> is a perfect way to serve these unattractive advertising
> targets.
So satellite radio is EXTRAterrestrial radio ... I guess
.
Seriously, oldies, as we knew them, someday will go the way of standards, big band, beautiful music formats, -- except on satellite and Internet "radio".
For example, how many beautiful music stations do you hear today compared to 1975? That was THE music for many baby boomers' parents 30 years ago.
Now the boomers are getting old -- the oldest of them will be 60 next year.
Time marches on.
> not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that oldies
> produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve that
> audience group.
>
> But you are right on one thing: satellite or Internet radio
> is a perfect way to serve these unattractive advertising
> targets.
So satellite radio is EXTRAterrestrial radio ... I guess
.Seriously, oldies, as we knew them, someday will go the way of standards, big band, beautiful music formats, -- except on satellite and Internet "radio".
For example, how many beautiful music stations do you hear today compared to 1975? That was THE music for many baby boomers' parents 30 years ago.
Now the boomers are getting old -- the oldest of them will be 60 next year.
Time marches on.
I suppose that I am one of those "unattractive" demos, at 46, huh? Oh, well "c'est le vie". I've been listening to oldies stations since I was 13. Even when I was in the college aged group (listening to AOR) and spinning album tracks on my college's FM station, I still had loved to listen to oldies radio. In fact, I always peppered my mixes with a few oldies with Dion, Association, Lou Christie and others. It was similar to what WDRC-FM/Hartford did in the late '70's (hybrid AOR/oldies), but without the commercials. Maybe I don't fit the demographics. But I'll tell you something, I don't give a rats @#* about demos or what some kid, fresh out of college, working on Madison Avenue says about my listening habits. There IS a market out there for oldies, provided they stop just using the same 300 "after 1964" and include some of the real classics from the first 10 years and run the playlist up to 1979. What would that sound like, you might ask? Try my stream http://wxrbfm.com or try some other Live365 station. My stream is like a hybrid of Sirius' "Sirius Gold, 60's Vibrations and Totally 70's". And of course, there is WLNG-FM ( http://wlng.com )! And they wonder WHY people are slowly going satellite radio. Simple, terrestrial radio doesn't give what the people want, uncluttered radio with fewer commercials. And YES, I am a Sirius subscriber.
73,
Peter Q.
> >
> > Or anyone who has given up on terrestrial radio oldies
> > (because terrestrial radio has given up on THEM) and moved
>
> > on to satellite.
> >
>
> You are shooting the messenger again. Terrestrial radio has
> not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that oldies
> produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve that
> audience group.
>
> But you are right on one thing: satellite or Internet radio
> is a perfect way to serve these unattractive advertising
> targets.
> <P ID="signature">______________
Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts</P>
73,
Peter Q.
> >
> > Or anyone who has given up on terrestrial radio oldies
> > (because terrestrial radio has given up on THEM) and moved
>
> > on to satellite.
> >
>
> You are shooting the messenger again. Terrestrial radio has
> not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that oldies
> produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve that
> audience group.
>
> But you are right on one thing: satellite or Internet radio
> is a perfect way to serve these unattractive advertising
> targets.
> <P ID="signature">______________
Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts</P>
> I suppose that I am one of those "unattractive" demos, at
> 46, huh? Oh, well "c'est le vie".
You are in a sales demo, not out of it. the robelm with some formats is that they may have some under-55 listeners, but the bulk are older and the advertiser does not want to pay for the older group. BBased on 25-54, an oldies station may not even be in the top 10 in some markets.
> Maybe I don't fit the demographics. But I'll tell you
> something, I don't give a rats @#* about demos or what some
> kid, fresh out of college, working on Madison Avenue says
> about my listening habits.
For the 100th time, ad agencie buyers do not determine the target of a product or service. It is the management and marketing department of the advertiser. In fact, the product may have been designed for a specific age, with packaging and marketing all having the mandate of appealing to that age. The agency takes that data, develops a campaign and buys the media. They do not, however, determine the target or change it.
> There IS a market out there for
> oldies, provided they stop just using the same 300 "after
> 1964" and include some of the real classics from the first
> 10 years and run the playlist up to 1979.
If they manage to make the audince substantially 35-54 or 45-54, it will work. But that is what Jack is.
> What would that
> sound like, you might ask? Try my stream http://wxrbfm.com
> or try some other Live365 station. My stream is like a
> hybrid of Sirius' "Sirius Gold, 60's Vibrations and Totally
> 70's". And of course, there is WLNG-FM ( http://wlng.com )!
> And they wonder WHY people are slowly going satellite
> radio. Simple, terrestrial radio doesn't give what the
> people want, uncluttered radio with fewer commercials. And
> YES, I am a Sirius subscriber.
Terrestrial radio can not give what advertisers will not support. Period.
> 46, huh? Oh, well "c'est le vie".
You are in a sales demo, not out of it. the robelm with some formats is that they may have some under-55 listeners, but the bulk are older and the advertiser does not want to pay for the older group. BBased on 25-54, an oldies station may not even be in the top 10 in some markets.
> Maybe I don't fit the demographics. But I'll tell you
> something, I don't give a rats @#* about demos or what some
> kid, fresh out of college, working on Madison Avenue says
> about my listening habits.
For the 100th time, ad agencie buyers do not determine the target of a product or service. It is the management and marketing department of the advertiser. In fact, the product may have been designed for a specific age, with packaging and marketing all having the mandate of appealing to that age. The agency takes that data, develops a campaign and buys the media. They do not, however, determine the target or change it.
> There IS a market out there for
> oldies, provided they stop just using the same 300 "after
> 1964" and include some of the real classics from the first
> 10 years and run the playlist up to 1979.
If they manage to make the audince substantially 35-54 or 45-54, it will work. But that is what Jack is.
> What would that
> sound like, you might ask? Try my stream http://wxrbfm.com
> or try some other Live365 station. My stream is like a
> hybrid of Sirius' "Sirius Gold, 60's Vibrations and Totally
> 70's". And of course, there is WLNG-FM ( http://wlng.com )!
> And they wonder WHY people are slowly going satellite
> radio. Simple, terrestrial radio doesn't give what the
> people want, uncluttered radio with fewer commercials. And
> YES, I am a Sirius subscriber.
Terrestrial radio can not give what advertisers will not support. Period.
> > You are shooting the messenger again. Terrestrial radio
> has
> > not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that
> oldies
> > produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve that
>
> > audience group.
> >
> > But you are right on one thing: satellite or Internet
> radio
> > is a perfect way to serve these unattractive advertising
> > targets.
>
>
> So satellite radio is EXTRAterrestrial radio ... I guess
>.
>
> Seriously, oldies, as we knew them, someday will go the way
> of standards, big band, beautiful music formats, -- except
> on satellite and Internet "radio".
>
> For example, how many beautiful music stations do you hear
> today compared to 1975? That was THE music for many baby
> boomers' parents 30 years ago.
>
> Now the boomers are getting old -- the oldest of them will
> be 60 next year.
>
> Time marches on.
>
I know this is obviously the "oldies" board, but I want to discuss a little about Adult Contemporary radio. Many AC stations play lots of 70s, some even throw in a few 60s, but when the target demo for listeners that listen to 70s music ages, will AC drops the 70s all together? I was too young to remember, so, did AC stations play a lot of 60s tunes in the 80s or early 90s, like some play 70s now?
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
> has
> > not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that
> oldies
> > produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve that
>
> > audience group.
> >
> > But you are right on one thing: satellite or Internet
> radio
> > is a perfect way to serve these unattractive advertising
> > targets.
>
>
> So satellite radio is EXTRAterrestrial radio ... I guess
>
.>
> Seriously, oldies, as we knew them, someday will go the way
> of standards, big band, beautiful music formats, -- except
> on satellite and Internet "radio".
>
> For example, how many beautiful music stations do you hear
> today compared to 1975? That was THE music for many baby
> boomers' parents 30 years ago.
>
> Now the boomers are getting old -- the oldest of them will
> be 60 next year.
>
> Time marches on.
>
I know this is obviously the "oldies" board, but I want to discuss a little about Adult Contemporary radio. Many AC stations play lots of 70s, some even throw in a few 60s, but when the target demo for listeners that listen to 70s music ages, will AC drops the 70s all together? I was too young to remember, so, did AC stations play a lot of 60s tunes in the 80s or early 90s, like some play 70s now?
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
> > > You are shooting the messenger again. Terrestrial radio
> > has
> > > not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that
> > oldies
> > > produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve
> that
> >
> > > audience group.
> > >
> > > But you are right on one thing: satellite or Internet
> > radio
> > > is a perfect way to serve these unattractive advertising
>
> > > targets.
> >
> >
> > So satellite radio is EXTRAterrestrial radio ... I guess
> >.
> >
> > Seriously, oldies, as we knew them, someday will go the
> way
> > of standards, big band, beautiful music formats, -- except
>
> > on satellite and Internet "radio".
> >
> > For example, how many beautiful music stations do you hear
>
> > today compared to 1975? That was THE music for many baby
> > boomers' parents 30 years ago.
> >
> > Now the boomers are getting old -- the oldest of them will
>
> > be 60 next year.
> >
> > Time marches on.
> >
>
> I know this is obviously the "oldies" board, but I want to
> discuss a little about Adult Contemporary radio. Many AC
> stations play lots of 70s, some even throw in a few 60s, but
> when the target demo for listeners that listen to 70s music
> ages, will AC drops the 70s all together? I was too young to
> remember, so, did AC stations play a lot of 60s tunes in the
> 80s or early 90s, like some play 70s now?
>
1 Yes, if it stops testing well with the target demo. 2 Yes, for the most part.
> > has
> > > not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that
> > oldies
> > > produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve
> that
> >
> > > audience group.
> > >
> > > But you are right on one thing: satellite or Internet
> > radio
> > > is a perfect way to serve these unattractive advertising
>
> > > targets.
> >
> >
> > So satellite radio is EXTRAterrestrial radio ... I guess
> >
.> >
> > Seriously, oldies, as we knew them, someday will go the
> way
> > of standards, big band, beautiful music formats, -- except
>
> > on satellite and Internet "radio".
> >
> > For example, how many beautiful music stations do you hear
>
> > today compared to 1975? That was THE music for many baby
> > boomers' parents 30 years ago.
> >
> > Now the boomers are getting old -- the oldest of them will
>
> > be 60 next year.
> >
> > Time marches on.
> >
>
> I know this is obviously the "oldies" board, but I want to
> discuss a little about Adult Contemporary radio. Many AC
> stations play lots of 70s, some even throw in a few 60s, but
> when the target demo for listeners that listen to 70s music
> ages, will AC drops the 70s all together? I was too young to
> remember, so, did AC stations play a lot of 60s tunes in the
> 80s or early 90s, like some play 70s now?
>
1 Yes, if it stops testing well with the target demo. 2 Yes, for the most part.
> > Anyone who has one foot in the grave, as some will have
> you
> > believe :>)
>
>
**> ************************************************************
>
>
>
> Or anyone who has given up on terrestrial radio oldies
> (because terrestrial radio has given up on THEM) and moved
> on to satellite.
>
Curiously, is there any data on what satellite formats attract the most listeners? Does Arbitron measure satellite radio listening, or are there still too few to be statistically relevant?
My suspicion is that as time goes by, channels/formats that don't attract much of an audience will be given the boot by the satellite services, much as they have by terrestrial radio.
> you
> > believe :>)
>
>
**> ************************************************************
>
>
>
> Or anyone who has given up on terrestrial radio oldies
> (because terrestrial radio has given up on THEM) and moved
> on to satellite.
>
Curiously, is there any data on what satellite formats attract the most listeners? Does Arbitron measure satellite radio listening, or are there still too few to be statistically relevant?
My suspicion is that as time goes by, channels/formats that don't attract much of an audience will be given the boot by the satellite services, much as they have by terrestrial radio.
B
bigwoody
Guest
> > There IS a market out there for
> > oldies, provided they stop just using the same 300 "after
> > 1964" and include some of the real classics from the first
>
> > 10 years and run the playlist up to 1979.
>
> If they manage to make the audince substantially 35-54 or
> 45-54, it will work. But that is what Jack is.
>
John Gehron, CC VP Programming/Chicago, has stated in print that those that are not catering to 35-64 are missing the boat on an overlooked and under served demo. 35-64 is what 25-54 was 10-15 years ago. It's the new 25-54. And he also said that oldies is not dead. I agree with him. I will also add that oldies, as we've known it, may not be on big FM sticks in major markets, but oldies will be in the mid to smaller markets as well as AM. Oldies isn't completely dead as a format...not yet. In another 7-10 years, sadly yes.
<P ID="signature">______________
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.</P>
> > oldies, provided they stop just using the same 300 "after
> > 1964" and include some of the real classics from the first
>
> > 10 years and run the playlist up to 1979.
>
> If they manage to make the audince substantially 35-54 or
> 45-54, it will work. But that is what Jack is.
>
John Gehron, CC VP Programming/Chicago, has stated in print that those that are not catering to 35-64 are missing the boat on an overlooked and under served demo. 35-64 is what 25-54 was 10-15 years ago. It's the new 25-54. And he also said that oldies is not dead. I agree with him. I will also add that oldies, as we've known it, may not be on big FM sticks in major markets, but oldies will be in the mid to smaller markets as well as AM. Oldies isn't completely dead as a format...not yet. In another 7-10 years, sadly yes.
<P ID="signature">______________
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.</P>
B
bigwoody
Guest
> Seriously, oldies, as we knew them, someday will go the way
> of standards, big band, beautiful music formats, -- except
> on satellite and Internet "radio".
Adult standards, or Music of Your Life, has been re-tooled of late including present day artists such as Rod Stewart (American Song Book), Sarah McLachlan, Norah Jones, Phil Collins, etc. Essentially an AC hybrid while still playing 40s, 50s and early 60s fare. Have you noticed many CC SAC's have gone older and lighter? Even WSNI/Philly has a Sinatra feature, part in parcel to it's location to NYC/Jersey I'm sure. The CC Standards in LA, recently flipped (calls escape me) was a great sounding station. Old school jingles (TM Century)and all. Very slick. It cost some money. Not sure how it billed. <P ID="signature">______________
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.</P>
> of standards, big band, beautiful music formats, -- except
> on satellite and Internet "radio".
Adult standards, or Music of Your Life, has been re-tooled of late including present day artists such as Rod Stewart (American Song Book), Sarah McLachlan, Norah Jones, Phil Collins, etc. Essentially an AC hybrid while still playing 40s, 50s and early 60s fare. Have you noticed many CC SAC's have gone older and lighter? Even WSNI/Philly has a Sinatra feature, part in parcel to it's location to NYC/Jersey I'm sure. The CC Standards in LA, recently flipped (calls escape me) was a great sounding station. Old school jingles (TM Century)and all. Very slick. It cost some money. Not sure how it billed. <P ID="signature">______________
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.</P>
B
bigwoody
Guest
> 1 Yes, if it stops testing well with the target demo. 2
> Yes, for the most part.
SAC"s that are playing late 60's and 70's, aka "oldies", are in fact targeting P35-64. Why if that demo isn't "favorable"?<P ID="signature">______________
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.</P>
> Yes, for the most part.
SAC"s that are playing late 60's and 70's, aka "oldies", are in fact targeting P35-64. Why if that demo isn't "favorable"?<P ID="signature">______________
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.</P>
> Curiously, is there any data on what satellite formats
> attract the most listeners? Does Arbitron measure satellite
> radio listening, or are there still too few to be
> statistically relevant?
Arbitron measures it, but the listening levedls are below the minimum cutoff... in LA, between sirius and XM, there are probably about 0.3 to 0.4 shares, for all 250 channels combined.
>
> My suspicion is that as time goes by, channels/formats that
> don't attract much of an audience will be given the boot by
> the satellite services, much as they have by terrestrial
> radio.
Sastellite is an amalgamation of formats that is broader than any market. They sell subscriptions by offereing people a number of formats they like that are not available locally or not done to an indivisual's taste. They need to have a range of more popular and more limited format to give a sense of value.
> attract the most listeners? Does Arbitron measure satellite
> radio listening, or are there still too few to be
> statistically relevant?
Arbitron measures it, but the listening levedls are below the minimum cutoff... in LA, between sirius and XM, there are probably about 0.3 to 0.4 shares, for all 250 channels combined.
>
> My suspicion is that as time goes by, channels/formats that
> don't attract much of an audience will be given the boot by
> the satellite services, much as they have by terrestrial
> radio.
Sastellite is an amalgamation of formats that is broader than any market. They sell subscriptions by offereing people a number of formats they like that are not available locally or not done to an indivisual's taste. They need to have a range of more popular and more limited format to give a sense of value.
> [You are shooting the messenger again. Terrestrial radio has
> not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that oldies
> produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve that
> audience group.]
The truth is that radio never could sell advertising for this group, even when the group was 25+. Newspapers always commanded those advertising dollars (and still do).
> not "given up." Advertisers don't want the demos that oldies
> produce, so terrestrial radio can not afford to serve that
> audience group.]
The truth is that radio never could sell advertising for this group, even when the group was 25+. Newspapers always commanded those advertising dollars (and still do).
O
OldiesCat
Guest
"average" oldies listener?
Lord, no cat- you're right in the "sweet spot" of the Oldies target demo today
(40-54 adults). That's IF your Oldies station is dealing with reality and wants to show well 25-54.
> I suppose that I am one of those "unattractive" demos, at 46, huh?
Lord, no cat- you're right in the "sweet spot" of the Oldies target demo today
(40-54 adults). That's IF your Oldies station is dealing with reality and wants to show well 25-54.
> I suppose that I am one of those "unattractive" demos, at 46, huh?
O
OldiesCat
Guest
"average" oldies listener?
John is absolutely correct-- just try telling that to a 35 yr old GM or GSM.
And, unfortunately, that dynamic has forced oldies in 2005 to be a 60s and 70s hits format. What should be and what is are (as usual) two completely different things.
>
> John Gehron, CC VP Programming/Chicago, has stated in print
> that those that are not catering to 35-64 are missing the
> boat on an overlooked and under served demo. 35-64 is what
> 25-54 was 10-15 years ago. It's the new 25-54. And he also
> said that oldies is not dead. I agree with him. I will also
> add that oldies, as we've known it, may not be on big FM
> sticks in major markets, but oldies will be in the mid to
> smaller markets as well as AM. Oldies isn't completely dead
> as a format...not yet. In another 7-10 years, sadly yes.
>
John is absolutely correct-- just try telling that to a 35 yr old GM or GSM.
And, unfortunately, that dynamic has forced oldies in 2005 to be a 60s and 70s hits format. What should be and what is are (as usual) two completely different things.
>
> John Gehron, CC VP Programming/Chicago, has stated in print
> that those that are not catering to 35-64 are missing the
> boat on an overlooked and under served demo. 35-64 is what
> 25-54 was 10-15 years ago. It's the new 25-54. And he also
> said that oldies is not dead. I agree with him. I will also
> add that oldies, as we've known it, may not be on big FM
> sticks in major markets, but oldies will be in the mid to
> smaller markets as well as AM. Oldies isn't completely dead
> as a format...not yet. In another 7-10 years, sadly yes.
>
O
OldiesCat
Guest
"average" oldies listener?
Because they still perform well 25-54, for the most part. It makes also doing well 35-64 more acceptable.
Truth is, boys & girls, that the Pet Clark/Herman's Hermits/Gary & Playboys/ Monkees-sounding brand of Oldies is toast-- been burned into the ground and it sounds very dated to listeners under 50.
>
> SACs that are playing late 60's and 70's, aka "oldies", are
> in fact targeting P35-64. Why if that demo isn't "favorable"?
>
Because they still perform well 25-54, for the most part. It makes also doing well 35-64 more acceptable.
Truth is, boys & girls, that the Pet Clark/Herman's Hermits/Gary & Playboys/ Monkees-sounding brand of Oldies is toast-- been burned into the ground and it sounds very dated to listeners under 50.
>
> SACs that are playing late 60's and 70's, aka "oldies", are
> in fact targeting P35-64. Why if that demo isn't "favorable"?
>
- Status