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Who Won The Auction?

This morning the Big 1190 is back on the air, broadcasting in a
foreign language (and not even a "for English, press 2" option ;D).

Have not heard a legal ID yet, so I don't know if it's still KNUV.

It's still KNUV Tolleson/New Radio Venture in the FCC AM Query,
but updates there may be lagging, especially since Uncle Charlie
has its hands full with DTV--Kettles have no clue and can't see
Jerry Springer anymore, VHF DTs need more ERP, etc.
 
Confirming the same calls--at 6:02:18 I heard (en ingles)
"1190 KNUV Tolleson/Phoenix" which was dropped in over
the existing program audio.

Still can't get a make on the format/program origination,
however I been hearing things like "ciudad de Mexico" and
what appears to be "970" (970 kHz?)--is there a network
that originates from an AM on 970 in MEX?

BTW, the new operator must like the drifting lamptimer idea
as they dropped power at 7:46:44, just after Lumberyard 1440
cut its carrier in the usual inimitable fashion at 7:46:40. ;)
 
oldiesfan6479 said:
Confirming the same calls--at 6:02:18 I heard (en ingles)
"1190 KNUV Tolleson/Phoenix" which was dropped in over
the existing program audio.

Still can't get a make on the format/program origination,
however I been hearing things like "ciudad de Mexico" and
what appears to be "970" (970 kHz?)--is there a network
that originates from an AM on 970 in MEX?

970 is the Mexico City flagship station of the Radio Fórmula network, the largest talk operation in Mexico.
 
oh boy Just what we needed. I wonder if I went to Mecixo City .... would there be a dozen or so stations programming in Ingles for me to listen to?

don't worry. it will go broke again just like before.
 
Bill Drake said:
oh boy Just what we needed. I wonder if I went to Mecixo City .... would there be a dozen or so stations programming in Ingles for me to listen to?

No, but that is because the audieence for such stations would be next to non-existant. On the other hand, in the 60's and 70's there were several full English stations, in the era when US companies sent US management and technical staff to run divisions in Mexico (the same occured in Puerto Rico). Now, these jobs are held by Mexican workers, and there is only a small population of Americans (in the US sense of the word) in the large cities of Mexico.

Were it different, there would be English language stations, in proportion to the population.

don't worry. it will go broke again just like before.

AMs have little appeal to Hispanics in the US Southwest.
 
Testing knowledge base: How many here have heard of "XEROK 80"

Radio today is why I spend all my spare time at reelradio.com
 
Bill Drake said:
Testing knowledge base: How many here have heard of "XEROK 80"

For English-speakers, they were a great rock station, but that was 35 years ago. What's that got to do with today?

Do they have listeners outside of northern Mexico, west Texas or southern New Mexico? From the few times I've tuned across it, their signal (still 150 kW?) isn't what it used to be. I've heard low-powered XESPN from Tijuana/San Diego over them at times, mostly in winter mornings.
 
Well gee 35 years ago radio was a robust growth medium. Now it's on life support.

And if AM radio doesn't hold inetrest for the mexican population here, then why are there so AM stations programming that format?

i give terrestrial radio 5, or 10 years before it finally closes up shop and goes away. i hate say it, but it won't be missed.
 
Bill Drake said:
And if AM radio doesn't hold inetrest for the mexican population here, then why are there so AM stations programming that format?

Snake Oil and Bible thumping formats transcend all languages. Knowing you don't need ratings to sell stuff, what else would you do with the Mighty 11~Ninety that could make a buck? Explains why IHR is paying $1m for 13~Ten.
 
So who buys the crap they are selling?

Since American innovation died about 30 years ago, I guess it's too much to expect something new and original to appear before our eyes. Just fatted hogs slopping at the lowest common denominator trough.
 
KeithE4 said:
For English-speakers, they were a great rock station, but that was 35 years ago. What's that got to do with today?

Do they have listeners outside of northern Mexico, west Texas or southern New Mexico? From the few times I've tuned across it, their signal (still 150 kW?) isn't what it used to be. I've heard low-powered XESPN from Tijuana/San Diego over them at times, mostly in winter mornings.

It's 50 kw now, and a local operation in Spanish.

As the West filled with FMs, listeners in rural areas could get CHR locally and there was no longer a need for high power Top 40s, particularly on AM.
 
Bill Drake said:
Well gee 35 years ago radio was a robust growth medium. Now it's on life support.

And if AM radio doesn't hold inetrest for the mexican population here, then why are there so AM stations programming that format?

Good radio companies and stations are not on life support. The whole US economy is on life support, and our pols are printing a couple of trillion dollars in currency to keep it alive.

AM radio has no interest for nearly everyone... it's dying. So stations will try anything to survive, and there is always someone who thinks they can make money from an AM, and some actually do!
 
You better review your numbers. Radio IS on life support. Listenership is declining. Internet radio is finally making a dent in the market. As long as programmers over specialize and treat radio as a juke box with (unlimited) commercials this trend will continue. One third of the stations could go away tomorrow and the result would be the best thing that ever happened for the industry. Along with reestablishing ownership limits. Perhaps local content requirements as well.

Radio has been Walmartized. It appeals to the lowest common denominator. Do you really listen to the radio for news? Not unless it’s about another police shooting or tot drowning in a swimming pool. Do you listen for sparkling commentary and talk? Not unless you want to hear RNC talking points. Do you listen for the music? Not unless your mind only has the capacity for a 200 song playlist.

And as the good doctor said, ratings aren’t needed anymore. Otherwise, how do 910, 1060, 1100 and a host of others keep hanging on?


The only way Rushbo got so big (other than his obvious addiction to food among other things) was the fact that his show was given away to many markets.


BTW, Top 40 died about 20 years ago; about the same time that the music industry became corporatized. Hmm. I see a pattern here.

XEROK was not programmed for people living in Jerkwater Iowa, anymore than KOMA, KAAY or any other big 50kw station was. It was programmed for its COL.

BTW, although not directly related to this topic, spending money to get us out of a hole left by the previous cabal is about the only way to correct the situation we find ourselves currently mired in..... Unless you like the thought of living in the newest third world nation.
 
Bill Drake said:
XEROK was not programmed for people living in Jerkwater Iowa, anymore than KOMA, KAAY or any other big 50kw station was. It was programmed for its COL.

If you want to get anal-retentive technical about it (and I do ;)), X-ROCK 80
(great shotgun jingle, BTW) was programmed for its metro market--El Paso
and Ciudad Juarez--not strictly its COL which is Juarez.

The hinterlands listeners (and those in other markets) to its nighttime 150-gallon
skywave were, as you noted, gravy.

Remember what preceded the shotgun jingle several times an hour? Female voice
legal IDing with "equis-ay-ere-oh-ka, Juarez Mexico."
 
Bill Drake said:
You better review your numbers. Radio IS on life support. Listenership is declining.

Cume is proving, using the PPM, to be higher than seen for 20 years. And listening times are quite solid, even though the useless teen demo is lower. Radio sells by delivery, and delivery is quite strong.

Internet radio is finally making a dent in the market. As long as programmers over specialize and treat radio as a juke box with (unlimited) commercials this trend will continue.

Radio has an ad-supported model, not a subscriber (to the station or the ISP) based one. As an ad medium, radio has enormous reach and excellant usage. And radio has always coexisted with other media.

One third of the stations could go away tomorrow and the result would be the best thing that ever happened for the industry.

More than one third of all stations in each market are not viable, due to signal deficiencies. For all practical purposes, those stations don't compete as their clients are churches and infomercials and ethnic niche advertisers. If they go away or not, it will not make any difference.

Along with reestablishing ownership limits. Perhaps local content requirements as well.

Yeah, while the internet is dominated by the Telcos and related companies, let's make radio revert to a cottage industry. And let's have stations put local shows on when some regional and national shows are what listeners will be best entertained and served by.

Radio has been Walmartized. It appeals to the lowest common denominator. Do you really listen to the radio for news? Not unless it’s about another police shooting or tot drowning in a swimming pool. Do you listen for sparkling commentary and talk? Not unless you want to hear RNC talking points. Do you listen for the music? Not unless your mind only has the capacity for a 200 song playlist.

The key word in Broadcasting is "broad." Of course it is mass appeal. And what listeners tell radio they want is what they get. Yet, look at KQED in San Francisco... #2 or #3 overall for a year now...

Of course, except for Top 40 stations (self-descriptive name, right?) no station plays just 200 songs. Oh, and in the 50's, it was playing 30 to 40 songs that saved radio. Guess why? People like hearing the hits of the moment.

And as the good doctor said, ratings aren’t needed anymore. Otherwise, how do 910, 1060, 1100 and a host of others keep hanging on?

They are not stations that need ratings. You make a choice. If you are AM, in Phoenix, you had better try to get on FM. Or, drop out of the ad battle and broker, do religion, etc. You might make a bit of money, for a while.


The only way Rushbo got so big (other than his obvious addiction to food among other things) was the fact that his show was given away to many markets.

Actually, going back to the very early 90's, Rush's show is one of the few syndicated shows that demands cash as well as inventory. Either way, the station pays for the show... and in the case of Rush, they pay big.

Rush would not be on so many stations but for the fact that in most markets, he is in the Top 5, even if he is on AMs for the most part.

BTW, Top 40 died about 20 years ago; about the same time that the music industry became corporatized. Hmm. I see a pattern here.

Top 40 became renamed Contemporary Hit Radio in the 70's when Top 40's had mostly added recurrents and some gold. The format is vibrant on facilities ranging from Kiss in LA to Z 100 in NYC to Kiss in Dallas to B-96 in Chicago to KQ 105 in Puerto Rico.

Oh, and the new CHR in LA, Amp, cumes nearly 3 million just a couple of months into the new format.

XEROK was not programmed for people living in Jerkwater Iowa, anymore than KOMA, KAAY or any other big 50kw station was. It was programmed for its COL.

It was not programmed for Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, México, the city of license. In fact, it did not show up in the Juárez ratings (INRA) because, bingo, it was in English.

XEROK was programmed for the night coverage area... 5 kw is more than enough to cover El Paso across the border. 150,000 watts was used to sell to regional accounts, mostly movies and artist appearances, across Texas, OK, NM, AZ, CO, etc. where no local CHR existed. If you don't believe this, talk to Bruce Earle, who was the engineer who put it back on the air.
 
DavidEduardo said:
And listening times are quite solid, even though the useless teen demo is lower.

David, if teens aren't listening to radio as much now, do you anticipate that the trend will continue when they enter the money demos - and should that be a concern for the industry?
 
DavidEduardo said:
Bill Drake said:
You better review your numbers. Radio IS on life support. Listenership is declining.

Cume is proving, using the PPM, to be higher than seen for 20 years. And listening times are quite solid, even though the useless teen demo is lower. Radio sells by delivery, and delivery is quite strong.......

(Quote abbreviated for brevity)

You can cherry pick figures all day but the fact remains that radio listenership is declining, and has been declining for years.

http://www.futureofmusic.org/research/radiostudyexecsum.cfm

http://www.allbusiness.com/services/motion-pictures/4460154-1.html

The first article also contains excellent refutations about the current state of the industry and its mega corporate control. I am not attacking you personally, but it appears you work for one of these corporations. I can imagine no other reason why anyone would defend what radio has evolved (proving that Evolution is a fact!!) into....

As for those "worthless" teens, if you lose a radio listener by age 13, the chances are he or she will be lost forever. Of course the overpaid pencil necks who the research for corporate radio probably don't even realize that important salient point.

Internet radio is not necessarily subscriber based. There are plenty of free options available ( I can even stream a real classic rock station since Phoenix doesn’t have one) and from what I have read, these options are becoming more and more popular. People do not have to be held hostage to what the corporations are slopping out of their trough. And it is pretty sloppy; boring, bland and banal. You say this is what people want? Hardly.

People do not know what they want and will even ingest (in any fashion) toxic substances if said items are cleverly marketed. It’s called propaganda. I could get you to buy or support anything if I can control the message and the marketing.

Returning to my statement above that you appear to be supporting the corporate model for broadcasters. Yes, it SHOULD be returned to a cottage industry. I suppose you ignore or trivialize the forgotten fact that radio operates on the public airwaves. There should be accountability and control. It worked for 70+ years with stellar success. It is a proven fact that local ownership best serves a radio or TV station: Decisions made locally that impact content and programing. Not decisions made 2500 miles away in a sheltered cubicle.

Having mass appeal does not mean the industry must program to the lowest common denominator. Don’t we have enough of that with the sister medium of television?

As to my comment about stations disappearing, I was referring to both AM and FM. The trend to specialization has resulted in lower overall ratings. One third of ALL the local stations could go away and the result would be a healthier industry. Coverage area was not part of my concern, although stations with limited coverage (there are several here on FM as well as AM) should also go away. Mind you, 35 years ago a class IV ruled this city with double digit shares. Nothing has changed in an important respect. Glendale, Tempe and all the other cities are still exactly where they were then.

No one listens to AM radio because there is nothing there worth wasting time over.

Top 40, or CHR, or whatever its pet name of the week, is nothing but a tool for the industry to sell its corporatized music.

I heard a robust discussion about Limpbladder at a media consortium forum and stand by my statement that his show was made available very cheaply for stations in certain markets. Then we have corporate chain stations flanking him on more than one station in a market. You could literally drive from coast to coast with wall to wall Rush. His ratings have never justified the salary he makes; there is something mor afoot here than an allegedly popular mega mouth. 10% of the Crud Channel work force has been eliminated while Rushbo gets an obscenely bloated contract. What is wrong with that picture?

I am reminded of a person I know who told me he listened to Glenn "weeping" Beck because he made sense. SO I asked him. Do you agree with what Beck says about this point, or that point, etc. About five or six of them. And this friend said "no, that's absurd." Yet he says Beck makes sense..... There is a disconnect between conservative radio listeners and reality. Thomm Hartmann has frequently opined that conservatism is a form of mental illness. I won’t go there except to say from conversations I have had with people of that persuasion, there is a logic to his statement. But that’s a topic for another day. However, in this discussion it does help to explain certain things about the Limpbladder phenomena.

Conservative talk radio format has peaked and at best can only hold its own for a while. There are only so many dead enders out there. During the entire insufferable 8 years of the Bush cabal I never saw KFYI as a run away ratings leader. I seem to recall it frequently tying with KOOL and their 200 song playlist or even with a mexican-formatted station.

To that 200 song playlist: If I have 3000 CDs in my collection, do I listen to them equally? Of course not. Hence my comment about the 200 songs. It goes back to the pencil necked geeks whose research tells them to play "Low Rider" or "Spirit In The Sky" five times a day. Realradio has some excellent discussions about how today’s radio is over researched by people who aren’t qualified to take out the trash. And it shows.

Methinks you are also splitting hairs about XEROK's city of license. Of course I will give you that it was Juarez. But the station was programmed mainly for El Paso. It also was a prerunner to voice tracking. But at least it had some class. Even though it lost in the ratings to a 1KW Daytimer with its 100kw FM simulcast (KINT). And this was back in the mid-70's when FM was just beginning its climb to dominance.
 
Bill Drake said:
You can cherry pick figures all day but the fact remains that radio listenership is declining, and has been declining for years.

You really have to be a bit more specific here. Cume has not decreased... it is at the same levels it was at in the 70's and 80's, in fact. Daily and weekly usage are down, more in some demos than others... but since we first had comparable measurement, 1965, we have seen the cassette, cable TV, the CD, the DVD, the recordable CD, the personal computer, the internet, email, cellular phones, texting, social networking sites, satellite radio, cable tv independent channels, video games, MP3 devices, TiVo, DVRs, etc., etc., taking a piece, each, of leisure time.

Radio has done amazingly well despite all this. Interestingly, the findings indicate that the more other duties a person has in life, like jobs and families and bill paying and such, easy to use commercial radio increases in usage because it is simple and all-pervasive. And the biggest sources of alternative delivery are radio stations... the content comes from radio, not from an electronic invention... that is just a delivery device.

Citing a stated opponant and magnificant misunderstander of radio like the music industry and its representatives is, of course, absurd.

The first article also contains excellent refutations about the current state of the industry and its mega corporate control. I am not attacking you personally, but it appears you work for one of these corporations. I can imagine no other reason why anyone would defend what radio has evolved (proving that Evolution is a fact!!) into....

I have been in the industry for half a century, and have seen the best and worst of all the stages of my career. While the current economic times are trying, the evolution of radio has progressed and will not stop. I see no reason to find more or less wrong now than ever.

As for those "worthless" teens, if you lose a radio listener by age 13, the chances are he or she will be lost forever. Of course the overpaid pencil necks who the research for corporate radio probably don't even realize that important salient point.

Actually, as I said above, we have considerable grounds to believe that radio becomes more useful after the teen years, but kids who grow up on iPods and personal music deliver are not going to be looking for Teddy Turntable the night rocker... the content will be much different, and very unappealing for an older generation.

Internet radio is not necessarily subscriber based. There are plenty of free options available

I see. Those DSLs and Cable services are free in Phoenix? There is a cost to the alternative, and, as you can see from the satradio folks the royalty fees may be passed on to users in some way or another. The ad supported model of radio is much more able to distribute its content via different channels as appropriate, vs. those that are tied to one channel of distribution.

People do not have to be held hostage to what the corporations are slopping out of their trough. And it is pretty sloppy; boring, bland and banal. You say this is what people want? Hardly.

You are certainly elitist. I actually talk to real listeners, often, and find that what they want is quite close to what they are getting. Of course, there will be the eclectic few who will dislike anything they find plebeyan, whether most people enjoy it or not.

People do not know what they want and will even ingest (in any fashion) toxic substances if said items are cleverly marketed.

People do wknow what they want, and I have witnessed listeners disect every song or every morning show bit with considerable criteria and skill. Based on that kind of input, radio programmers constantly improve their formats; those that don't will lose and usher in those who will run a station better.

Returning to my statement above that you appear to be supporting the corporate model for broadcasters. Yes, it SHOULD be returned to a cottage industry.

I worked for a number of years, fortunately as a teen, for a "cottage industry" owner. No benefits, no tolet paper, no raises, bad equipment. Those were the days of Richard Eaton, Don Burden, Max Richmond, etc., etc. Radio was such a small business it did not warrant the interest of banks, who would not finance stations so we had a strange collection of good, bad and mediocre owners. It is fortunate that those days are gone.

Oh, I forgot to mention another station, a Mom and Pop situation, where Mom called to have her favorite songs played when she had been into the gin bottle for a while. Now that was fine radio.

I suppose you ignore or trivialize the forgotten fact that radio operates on the public airwaves.

That concept was wonderful at the time of the creation of the FCC in the 30's when radio, and the few hundred stations that existed, were the only mass electronic communications media in the nation. Today, the safeguards for the people of the nation consist of the tens and hundreds of thousands of voices we can easily access.

It is a proven fact that local ownership best serves a radio or TV station: Decisions made locally that impact content and programing. Not decisions made 2500 miles away in a sheltered cubicle.

Ah, and the golden years of CBS and the Red and Blue networks were based, I guess, on localism...

In truth, whether local or not, good radio entertains and informs wherever the studio may be located.

Having mass appeal does not mean the industry must program to the lowest common denominator.

Radio programs to mass tastes. If, to you, that is the lowest common denominator, so be it. I don't look down at my listeners, and I find that they are amazingly perceptive and and aware, whether they have colllege degrees or not...

As to my comment about stations disappearing, I was referring to both AM and FM.

So was I. The fact is that there are large numbers of stations in every market that can not compete with commercial formats supported by advertisers... they either go the religion / infomercial / brokered route or find some poor sucker who thinks they can do better.

The trend to specialization has resulted in lower overall ratings.

No, the increase in numbers of stations has produced lower shares. There are always 100 shares. Most are given to the top 10, 15, 20 stations depending on the market. So if there are more stations in the market, shares will decline. Markets that had 8 to 10 AMs in the 60's found themselves in the 70's with three or even four times the stations as FM became viable in that decade. And then more and more new and marginal AMs and 80-90 FMs came in...

Mind you, 35 years ago a class IV ruled this city with double digit shares. Nothing has changed in an important respect. Glendale, Tempe and all the other cities are still exactly where they were then.

35 years ago, which would be '74 to '75, when KUPD (FM), KBBC, KOY and KRFM all beat KRIZ... and when the survey metro was much smaller, AM noise levels were vastly lower, and two generations of Americans had not yet grown up on FM. Oh, and KRIZ, owned by Doubleday, was run by a very strong corporate management and programming orgainizations.

No one listens to AM radio because there is nothing there worth wasting time over.

In the top 100 markets, there are less than 225 viable AMs. All the rest, about 2500, don't have the coverage, night signal, etc., to compete. And AM sounds horrible... which explains why music formats migrated there decades ago. Add the interference from computers, CFLs, flourescent lights and dimmers and such, and AM today requires many times the field strength to get listening that it did 4 decades ago.

Top 40, or CHR, or whatever its pet name of the week, is nothing but a tool for the industry to sell its corporatized music.

I would be hard put to find two groups, radio and records, that are less interested in each other's interests. Radio sells advertising, not music. And the RIAA is out to backstab everyone who has been a friend of the music industry in the past...

I heard a robust discussion about Limpbladder at a media consortium forum and stand by my statement that his show was made available very cheaply for stations in certain markets.

I have actually put Rush on AMs in his early years. While EIB may have made some concessions to get key clearances in the beginning, the fact is that, once the show got the clearances and ratings it has since enjoyed, the fees in cash and the inventory taken were very significant.

His ratings have never justified the salary he makes; there is something mor afoot here than an allegedly popular mega mouth. 10% of the Crud Channel work force has been eliminated while Rushbo gets an obscenely bloated contract. What is wrong with that picture?

What Rush makes is no different than what Stern makes or what a star athlete makes... they are rainmakers for the stations they are on and make lots of money for the syndicator. There is nothing insidious in paying talent what talent is worth... otherwise, the talent goes where it will get what it is worth.

In fact, Rush creates employment for thousands by helping sustain for a few more years the AM band... he's a vast cume magnet, allowing local stations to do some local programming and the employ sellers, egineers, accountants and all the rest. Every radio star is worth a vast sum... as they help to keep radio viable.

Conservative talk radio format has peaked and at best can only hold its own for a while.

Actually, it will grow in the Obama years, as it did during Clinton's time.

I seem to recall it frequently tying with KOOL and their 200 song playlist or even with a mexican-formatted station...

And, with about a quarter of the market being Mexican or of Mexican heritage, why would a successful station appealing to their tastes in music and entertainment be such a surprising happening?

Methinks you are also splitting hairs about XEROK's city of license. Of course I will give you that it was Juarez. But the station was programmed mainly for El Paso. It also was a prerunner to voice tracking.

Prerecorded voice tracks go back to the 60's. And XEROK was not voice tracked... all programming was recorded, and run at the same time 24 hours later after tapes had been taken across to the transmitter in Juárez.

And if El Paso was important, then why not run 1 kw or 5 kw, and not 150 kw? They ran 150 kw so that they could sell the movie and rock show spots at night... "Opening tonight at the Chaparral Theatre in Farmington, the Rex in Pagosa Springs...."

The money was still in the skywave, just as it was for others like KOMA.

But at least it had some class. Even though it lost in the ratings to a 1KW Daytimer with its 100kw FM simulcast (KINT). And this was back in the mid-70's when FM was just beginning its climb to dominance.

In some markets, FM passed AM as early as 1973 or 1974, and it did so nationally by 1976/1977. XEROK beat KINT, but both were beaten by KAMA, a daytimer on 1060. Jim Taber's station had many personal and internal issues and it took years for it to become a factor... not due to FM being underdeveloped.
 
Once again you cherry pick certain points out of context or simply seem to exist in an alternative universe.

If you think that radio listenership has not declined, and is not declining. Fine. There are also people who think that man coexisted with dinosaurs. I will leave you to your fantasy, however incorrect it is.

Radio has done so well that thousands of disc jockeys (a position which no longer exists), news personnel, sales and engineering staff have been cut. As I mentioned Crud Channel has slashed 10% of their work force alone. Yeah. Radio is prospering quite well. Of course, according to your train of thought, there is no need for real live people in radio. Put in a hard drive with a few songs and let the stone cold voice tracking rip. 35 years ago voice tracking would never have made it. People were too smart and could see right through it. That was then and this now.

The teen age demographic, which you seem to have motives to somehow exploit while simultaneously ignoring, is sophisticated enough to see through what radio today is like. Or maybe they just don't like hearing 20 minute music sets followed by 20 minute commercial sets. Either way, their loss is the first tightening of the noose around the neck of a decaying industry.

No, cable internet is not free in Phoenix. Nothing is free in this country. But the internet offers escape from the above mentioned overbearing commercial onslaught, which along with incessant patter can rob 25% of an hour during drive time. A person would have to be totally brain dead to suffer through such tripe.

I recall one year ago the news of a fire breaking out near Crown King. Since I have interests in that area I turned to the "valley News Leader," KTAR, hoping to learn more. Oh yes. They teased and teased and teased about the story but after 25 minutes I finally gave up and found out what I needed on the internet.

If a person's time has no value, then they can waste hours of their lives trying to hear something significant on terrestrial radio.

No, I am not an elitist. I do think I have a little taste. I don't eat 99 cent fast food and I won’t listen to swill on the radio. Maybe you do talk to listeners, but then again with what demographic and educational cross spectrum are you having this discussion? I can talk to people all day who will swear the Earth is flat. That doesn't make it so.

No, people DO NOT know what they want. They are guided by the fickle hand of the corporate state. A few years ago we were told this was a "red" country and that moron Chris Matthews told us everyone was a conservative. Now their numbers have fallen to less than 20%. It's all in the marketing. People read and comprehend at an eighth grade level. How hard is that to manipulate?

So you think there is security in the broadcasting industry today? Give me a break. Talk to the people at Crud Channel who are now on the street. Or the thousands that have seen their jobs disappear as I cited above. If you want security in a field, radio (or television) is not the vocation of choice.

Again, your citation of "mom and pop" calling the shots at a station is no less acceptable that the onerous and profit driven hand of the corporate state. You are indeed the ultimate corporatist when you state that the public airwaves concept is obsolete. Or dare I say quaint? I think it was either Bush or Cheney who stated that free speech was also a quaint concept. What are the tens of thousands of voices that we can access? Conservabots dominate radio by a 95% margin. Is that because there is a demand for the programming? No. It is because radio is corporate and used as a pet to control and protect their interests. To hell with the public or the better welfare of the nation.

I think you must be smart enough to realize that radio has become so homogenized that, like every other aspect of American society, every city's stations sound virtually identical. It is possible to travel the entire length of the country and hear nothing but one long continuous snore.

Radio does use the commons. As such it should be taxed and regulated like every other entity that uses the commons. I assume from your mindset that this is outside your political frame, which would put you in a libertarian/conservative camp that thinks everything in society is for the taking and to make a buck.

Read

http://www.fcc.gov/Speeches/Adelstein/2003/spjsa301.html

The best you can do to refute my assertion about local control of programing is the red and blue networks? I don't know why I even bother except to point out that is cherry picking to the max. Even though KRIZ was Doubleday, and RKO had their stations scattered across the nation, as did Storz, etc, they were programed locally. Music heard on KOMA was radically different from WTIX, KXOK or WHB. WRKO was not programmed identical to WHBQ. On and on it goes. I will await with baited breath with tenuous and flimsy retort you will make here.

Specialization = lower shares. Okay. Nit pick,. You get the point. Am I supposed to impressed with KFYI's 5-something share? Hardly. The profitability for stations would increase if the redundant stations were cut loose. Of course we won't even go into how the Broadcast Industry, through their pet bulldog lobby, the NAB, has so trashed technical standards that all radio is now local because of spectrum overcrowding. But hey. I am sure somewhere someone is squeezing $1.95 out of the deal so it's okay.


Your assertion that Rush Limpbladder's salary is justified is complete lunacy. He is not a rock star. His ratings are, and never have been, good enough to justify the obscene amount of money he makes. As I said, he makes more than he earns for his syndicator. The alarming fact is that Limpbladder, like so many other of his ilk, have grown passed their amateur days of the Clinton 1990's. That’s when I heard Tom Leykis actually go head to head with the Oxycontin Kid, and Rush was reduced to the quivering bowl of flubber he really is. Maybe that's why he has locked himself in his Palm Beach bedroom and won’t come out to face the real world. No, Limpbladder is a tool for enforcing the corporate state, which has totally captured this country in a silent coup. You apparently seem to enjoy being WalMartized. I hope your financial portfolio survives being looted by the same corporatists who are intent on destroying the middle class and sending America back to a feudal state. Most of America doesn’t share your prosperity.

Learn from history. The fastest way to effect non violent change in a society is by controlling the media. Hitler did it. Mussolini did it. The Soviets are masters at it. Silvio Berlusconi is doing it right now. George Bush did it in 2000 and 2004.

Rush creates employment? What total rubbish. Again, ASK the Crud Channel people who have been fired while he sits on his hemroid inflamed butt how they feel about that. Your statement is completely devoid of factual reality.

No, conservative talk radio will not grow under Obama. The hard cord dead enders, the bed wetters who horde their guns and ammo, the racists and skin heads who hate people of color or different sexual orientation, will always gravitate to conservahate radio. That percentage of the population is very small. It is not growing. As dull as most Americans are, they are smart enough to see that 30 years of trickle down economics from the Chicago School has been a failure.

What will not change is that the broadcast industry will continue to flood the airwaves with conservative talk in an attempt to make people think it is in the mainstream. We already have a glut of that right now in Phoenix. I wonder what it will sound like in five or ten years.

Just as you split hairs over XEROK's COL, you also saw fit to split hairs over my voice tracking concept. XEROK was a novelty for its time. Yes I am fully aware of how its programming was delivered. It was not live. It was not the norm for Top 40 of its day. However, you are mistaken. Grossly so. KINT did beat XEROK in the Top 40 ratings. There have been many discussions about this at realradio, which is a watering hole for a lot of professionals (another concept missing from today's broadcasting industry) who can no longer find employment because they don't want to work for $7.00 an hour....assuming there are even any openings.

Check your numbers on KRIZ as well....

I leave you to ponder Tom Petty's words. I think he has it all summed up.

The Last DJ

Well you can’t turn him into a company man
You can’t turn him into a whore
And the boys upstairs just don’t understand anymore
Well the top brass don’t like him talking so much
And he won’t play what they say to play
And he don’t want to change what don’t need to change
And there goes the last DJ
Who plays what he wants to play
And says what he wants to say
Hey, hey, hey
And there goes your freedom of choice
There goes the last human voice
There goes the last DJ
Well some folks say they’re gonna hang him so high
Because you just can’t do what he did
There’s some things you just can’t put in the minds of those kids
As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
How much you’ll pay for what you used to get for free
And there goes the last DJ
Who plays what he wants to play
And says what he wants to say
Hey, hey, hey
And there goes your freedom of choice
There goes the last human voice
And there goes the last DJ

(Instrumental break)

Well he got him a station down in Mexico
And sometimes it will kinda come in
And I’ll bust a move and remember how it was back then
There goes the last DJ
Who plays what he wants to play
And says what he wants to say
Hey, hey, hey
And there goes your freedom of choice
There goes the last human voice
And there goes the last DJ


Have a nice day. I know someday reality and you will come together.

I would now like to go back to talking about lamptimers. I am spending too mch time on this topic.
 
Bill Drake said:
If you think that radio listenership has not declined, and is not declining.

You are not reading with any degree of comprehension, it seems. I said that, given the plethora of competitors for leisure time, radio has lost relatively little. Cume is flat or even up from the 70's and 80's, and TSL is off, but not an amount that allows saying anything about radio's death.

Of course, much more of the loss is to AM. If you measure FM against FM over several decades, then the loss is even smaller... again, considering all the new media and entertainment offerings.

Radio has done so well that thousands of disc jockeys (a position which no longer exists), news personnel, sales and engineering staff have been cut. As I mentioned Crud Channel has slashed 10% of their work force alone.

10% is a small amount given the recession we are in. And you are making up that figure, of course, because there is no official tally of radio unemployment. Radio has always had high turnover, so comparisons are hard to make... but given the economy, 10% seems marvelous. That's less than most sectors, in fact.

Yeah. Radio is prospering quite well. Of course, according to your train of thought, there is no need for real live people in radio. Put in a hard drive with a few songs and let the stone cold voice tracking rip.

For some listeners, "those annoying DJs" are a tune out, and they do not want them. This is a new eras; Pandora and Last.fm and my iPod do not have jocks... get with it. I've had teens and 18-24's say to me, "I love the music, and when they mix, its kuhl. But when they put one of those guys on who talk over the songs, I'm outta there."

I hope you know that a skilled mixer can make as much or more than famous radio DJs did "back in the day."

35 years ago voice tracking would never have made it. People were too smart and could see right through it. That was then and this now.

I had the #1 or #2 station, depending on the book, in market 14 in 1975 and it was totally voice tracked (although we did not call it that) and its format was Hot AC. Of course, hundreds of voice tracked Shulke and Bonneville and FM 100 and TM (and a dozen more) Beautiful Music stations were all voce tracked in the 70's, and most were in the top 5 if not #1 in their markets.

The teen age demographic, which you seem to have motives to somehow exploit while simultaneously ignoring, is sophisticated enough to see through what radio today is like.

I have no interest in doing radio for teens... there is no revenue, and I am not being given money to provide a public service for teens. And teens use radio... just not as much as they used to... because of all the alternatives. Yet when they mature, they use more and more radio.

No, cable internet is not free in Phoenix. Nothing is free in this country. But the internet offers escape from the above mentioned overbearing commercial onslaught, which along with incessant patter can rob 25% of an hour during drive time. A person would have to be totally brain dead to suffer through such tripe.

Your generalizations always lean in favor of your negative argument, but are totally devoid of fact. Check an Arbitron book. 75% of the population 12+ uses radio in the morning... and much of the other 25% is made up of people who can not listen in that daypart due to work shifts, etc.

I recall one year ago the news of a fire breaking out near Crown King. Since I have interests in that area I turned to the "valley News Leader," KTAR, hoping to learn more. Oh yes. They teased and teased and teased about the story but after 25 minutes I finally gave up and found out what I needed on the internet.

I drove around that fire going to my place in Prescott, and it was no big deal. I think KTAR realized that the extent of the fire was not considerable... and waited for the next regular newscast. Big fires are very good TV stories, as they are hugely visual. They are not very good radio stories, particularly if they take place 50 to 100 miles outside the market.

[/quote]No, I am not an elitist. I do think I have a little taste. I don't eat 99 cent fast food and I won’t listen to swill on the radio. Maybe you do talk to listeners, but then again with what demographic and educational cross spectrum are you having this discussion? [/quote]

Most people don't go to the symphony and do eat at McDonalds. Those are the people who also use radio. It does not matter if they like Akon or Carrie Underwood or Green Day or Vicente Fernández, most people like popular music, popular foods, and the current fashions of the group they belong to.

So you think there is security in the broadcasting industry today? Give me a break. Talk to the people at Crud Channel who are now on the street. Or the thousands that have seen their jobs disappear as I cited above. If you want security in a field, radio (or television) is not the vocation of choice.

Yo! There is a recession on. Every field has suffered cutbacks, elimination of 401k matches, salary holds or cuts, and much more. But still, the benefits and security is better than it was at the badly run stations that seemed to predominate in the 60's...

What are the tens of thousands of voices that we can access?

The internet puts thousands of newspapers and periodicals at your reach, and many independent news organizations ranging from AFP to Prensa Latina. And there is every kind of blog, news magazine and such on the web, and there are music offernings never thought of 50 years ago.

Conservabots dominate radio by a 95% margin.

Actually, you problem is you are focused on talk radio; talk gets between 5% and 10% of radio listening, and most of the listeners are over 50. So, among those under 50, conservative talk radio represents just a percent or two of listening in most markets.

Is that because there is a demand for the programming? No. It is because radio is corporate and used as a pet to control and protect their interests. To hell with the public or the better welfare of the nation.

Speaking of someone who lost their stations because I spoke out against a corrupt dictatorship, I find that conclusion disingenuous. Radio owners seek profit. They put on formats that get listeners that can be used to sell advertising. If Libertarian talk got numbers, we would have 500 libertarian talk stations in a few years... owners are constantly trying to find formats that will perform better than whatever they currently have... It's really rare to find a staion sacrificing profit for an agenda.

I think you must be smart enough to realize that radio has become so homogenized that, like every other aspect of American society, every city's stations sound virtually identical. It is possible to travel the entire length of the country and hear nothing but one long continuous snore.

The reason each market has a similar array of stations is that American tastes are surprisingly uniform across the nation. So there is a CHR station playing pretty much the same songs in Seattle as in Stockton as in San Antonio or Sarasota. And the same for AC, country, urban, various Hispanic targeted formats, rock, classic rock, etc., etc. It's the same reason that nearly everyone knew what happened on a Seinfeld episode by the next day... there is a national identity, and local radio reflects it market by market.


The best you can do to refute my assertion about local control of programing is the red and blue networks? I don't know why I even bother except to point out that is cherry picking to the max.

Localism is an overly used term. Listeners do not seek "local. " They seek "entertaining." Localism will not win over a non-local show that is more fun to listen to.

Even though KRIZ was Doubleday, and RKO had their stations scattered across the nation, as did Storz, etc, they were programed locally. Music heard on KOMA was radically different from WTIX, KXOK or WHB. WRKO was not programmed identical to WHBQ. On and on it goes. I will await with baited breath with tenuous and flimsy retort you will make here.

95% of the songs on each were the same... some went on songs faster, some waited more. But WQAM was the same as WDGY or WTIX or WHB or KOMA in that they played to top hits with DJs. The technology did not exist to share DJs between markets, so the differences were mostly market based. The big markets got the better jocks, and Traverse City got me.

Of course we won't even go into how the Broadcast Industry, through their pet bulldog lobby, the NAB, has so trashed technical standards that all radio is now local because of spectrum overcrowding.

Actually, most of the overcrowding is due to the FCC policy developed in the 30's to limit US radio to relatively low power ranges to foment lots of little local stations. Add the invention of the daytimer, the creation of AM directional arrays, the breakdown of the clear channels, Docket 80-90 and now LPFM and the profusion of stations is mostly on the shoulders of the government and the FCC, not the NAB, who has fought to limit spectrum abuse.

Your assertion that Rush Limpbladder's salary is justified is complete lunacy. He is not a rock star. His ratings are, and never have been, good enough to justify the obscene amount of money he makes.

Limbaugh has sustained listenership in the 15 to 20 million range for two decades... he's better than a rock star. He's sustainable. He certainly justifies his salary, and I would bet that part of the reason he got it is that someone else offered nearly as much, and Premiere exercised a match or better clause.

Limbaugh's listenership levels beat most network TV shows, and beat by a factor of about 20 the numbers for Stern, who makes even more and does not deliver.

As I said, he makes more than he earns for his syndicator. The alarming fact is that Limpbladder...

This is personal and political for you. The ugly and sophomoric ad hominem shows that you are likely jealous of his success and resentful for some reason. I clipped the political diatribe, as I've been through dictatorships, coups, commies and Facists and don't need an amateur rendering of the political scene.

Rush creates employment? What total rubbish. Again, ASK the Crud Channel people who have been fired while he sits on his hemroid inflamed butt how they feel about that. Your statement is completely devoid of factual reality.

He lead the change of AM from a dead medium to a vibrant one in the early 90's, and in the process saved and created thousands of jobs. Only a few have been lost, and that is not due to Rush or Radio... it is due to the Recession.

Just as you split hairs over XEROK's COL, you also saw fit to split hairs over my voice tracking concept. XEROK was a novelty for its time. Yes I am fully aware of how its programming was delivered. It was not live.

There had been recorded programming delivered to Mexican stations since the late 50's in Tijuana, and even instances of programs on transcriptions going back to XER and XERA in the Doc Brinkley days.

The interesting thing about XEROK is that listeners did not know it was not live. And they didn't care, any more than they cared if it was not local when it was listened to in La Junta or Coffeeville.

It was not the norm for Top 40 of its day. However, you are mistaken. Grossly so. KINT did beat XEROK in the Top 40 ratings.

Not till much later... because AM overall was dying, and FM took over everywhere. But in '74-75, KINT had lousy shares (check the Arbitrons... you can buy Duncan's two books of ratings going back to the 70's)

Check your numbers on KRIZ as well....

I did. I was OM at KRUX (among several other jobs) while in ASU in the early to mid 70's. The situation changed in Summer of '73 when Dunaway and crew took KUPD to the top of the Mountain with 100 kw from the trailer at Guadalupe. Within a year, KRUX had gone "Chicken Rock" and KRIZ was pretty much on its way out.

Have a nice day. I know someday reality and you will come together.

While each person has their own reality, I find your need to mix pollitics, disdain for the American economic system and exaggeration about other political systems to be the reason you can't see radio for what it is.
 
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