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Who would lease time to lib talk?

R

radiophile

Guest
On the N/T board a couple of days ago, this was posted:

From the New York Times:

Anita and Sheldon Drobny, two of the founders of Air America Radio, are taking the next step to ensure that liberal programming stays on the air: obtaining radio stations. Anita and Sheldon Drobny want to spread liberal talk radio by buying stations across the country. The couple has announced plans to begin buying or leasing radio stations across the United States

It has to be a major disappointment that Philly is completely without liberal talk - no libtalk station, no situation as in some other markets where a talker adds Springer or Ed Schultz to the mix.
So: What company would lease time or sell its AM station for this purpose in the Philly metro?
Could the company put together a leasing arrangement with a patchwork of suburban stations?
Here's a partial list to start: WMTR 800, WWDB 860, WEMG 1310, WDAS 1480, WNWR 1540.
 
> Here's a partial list to start: WMTR 800, WWDB 860, WEMG
> 1310, WDAS 1480, WNWR 1540.
>

Should the SportsTalk thing not fly on WPEN, what about them?
 
> > Here's a partial list to start: WMTR 800, WWDB 860, WEMG
> > 1310, WDAS 1480, WNWR 1540.
> >
>
> Should the SportsTalk thing not fly on WPEN, what about
> them?
>
Two considerations:
1. I think Greater Media will give sports talk some time to work or fail. It's too soon for another flip.
2. Would Greater Media give up this type of content control to another company?
 
Re: Talk Formats Need Full Time Stations

Philadelphia is limited in availability of full time full market AM signals needed to try to launch a format. Most people beyond radio geeks want to be able to turn on a station and hear their favorite format static free and clear 24/7 or they won't bother. In that respect WPEN seems to not be taking off as an alternative to Philadelphias top rated talk station WIP and might consider this prospect. So far in other markets this is still hard to set up. Philadelphia has one established contalk station WPHT ranking only just inside the top 15 in the last overall trends. Philadelphia prefers all news KYW overwealmingly to talk. Salem's WNTP has gained a little but is still a poor performance for a 50,000 watt signal that was once the #1 station in town for a decade. Nationally the Salem conservative talkers and the Air America stations rank about the same in ratings, even though the Salem stations usually have better signals. It's just hard to compete against established stations.

The experiment of buying time on WHAT failed. WTMR has an long established religious format that probably makes good money, WWDB is a daytimer, WEMG was just sold between Spanish broadcasters, WDAS does ok with gospel even against a new FM station, and WNWR is a multi-cultural bartered program station. Any talk show would just get lost there - as when they simulcast WBCB's Irv Homer show for a time.

The only way this format might work here on WPEN - have a local morning show heavy on locally produced news, weather, traffic, then select some of the better performing national shows like Ed Schultz and Thom Hartman, maybe a local midday show, and maybe a few of the AA shows like Al Franken and Randi Rhodes on delay (well, they won't have delay to kick around anymore, LOL) at night, and maybe Irv Homer or other WWDB alumni on weekends.

But we already know GM wouldn't invest the time and money to make that work.



> > Here's a partial list to start: WMTR 800, WWDB 860, WEMG
> > 1310, WDAS 1480, WNWR 1540.
> >
>
> Should the SportsTalk thing not fly on WPEN, what about
> them?
>
 
Nobody, that's who

WHAT with part-time Air America Radio mostly got a fraction of a point in the 12+ numbers; the same as WHAT gets now, the same as WPEN gets now with Sports and the same as Salem's WNTP gets with social conservative talk. While progressive talk breaks gets above a two share in a handful of markets and gets between one and two in some markets, in most markets progressive talk gets fractional numbers.

Progressive talk seems to make sense as part of station cluster, to round out a sales package. Operating on their own, progressive talk stations have not done that well generating local sales.

rAAR has abandoned its LMA strategy because it was huge money loser. Reportedly, AAR pays $2.5 million a year to rent WLIB, New York (plus 49% of any local revenue over $2.5 million - which apparently they have not seen yet). Much better to provide programming to affiliates in return for local avails. The Drobnys haven't figured that out. So, how many millions can these Chicago fat cats pour into money-losing LMA's around the country? If it costs $2.5 million (minimum) to rent a station in New York, how much for Philly?

The people who run Air America Radio (and now the Drobnys) have been obsessed with getting on in as many markets as they can; quantity over quality. They have been willing to get on any station that will take them. As a result, they have ended up on stations like WHAT with terrible signals.

And being desperate to get on means they are likely to make bad deals. The daytimers and class IV's listed in the first post don't need them. They are doing fine with brokered programming, pay to play preachers and foreign language programming. And three of the six listed are daytimers. If AAR gets on any of them, they will probably end up over-paying (with few listeners or advertisers to show for it).

Added to all of that, Philly is not that good a market for talk radio - liberal, conservative or lifestyle/advice. In the 90's, the format almost died here.

Progressive talk in Philly is not likely anytime soon. More likely, might be WHAT, WDAS or one of the other weak stick AM's picking up Radio One's new Black talk network (with the Rev Al Sharpton doing middays). Weak sticks are much better suited for programming targeting an audience located almost entirely in the city.
 
Crummy signals mean crummy ratings

I've never seen anything like the WDAS patterns. From a tower site on the western edge of the city, they run 5kw days, aimed southwest (and thus AWAY from the city of license), 1kw nights, with a completely DIFFERENT pattern, aimed southeast, which only skims the southern half of the city.

In other words, half the audience loses the station every time they change patterns.

If the Good Lord himself (or herself) took a shift there, He'd get lousy ratings.

Why oh why didn't this mess end up in the expanded band?

Bill
 
Re: Crummy signals mean crummy ratings

AAR should contact the (BLEEP) running WCOJ. They could stand to replace Dr. Joy Browne, her show is awful, and since they have no ratings, the success of Air America wouldn't matter anyway.

> I've never seen anything like the WDAS patterns. From a
> tower site on the western edge of the city, they run 5kw
> days, aimed southwest (and thus AWAY from the city of
> license), 1kw nights, with a completely DIFFERENT pattern,
> aimed southeast, which only skims the southern half of the
> city.
>
> In other words, half the audience loses the station every
> time they change patterns.
>
> If the Good Lord himself (or herself) took a shift there,
> He'd get lousy ratings.
>
> Why oh why didn't this mess end up in the expanded band?
>
> Bill
>
 
Re: Crummy signals mean crummy ratings

WCOJ ran the Ed Schultz show last year in PM drive then suddenly cut the show out without warning. So apparently they decided not to run progressive talk.


> AAR should contact the (BLEEP) running WCOJ. They could
> stand to replace Dr. Joy Browne, her show is awful, and
> since they have no ratings, the success of Air America
> wouldn't matter anyway.
>
 
Sorry to see anybody lose their job

I guess you are no longer at WCOJ and the parting was not pleasant. From your posts, you seemed to believe in what you were selling and worked hard for them. I hope something opens up for you soon.

> AAR should contact the (BLEEP) running WCOJ. They could
> stand to replace Dr. Joy Browne, her show is awful, and
> since they have no ratings, the success of Air America
> wouldn't matter anyway.
>
 
Downplaying politics

> WCOJ ran the Ed Schultz show last year in PM drive then
> suddenly cut the show out without warning. So apparently
> they decided not to run progressive talk.
>
>

Most programming and personnel changes in radio are made "without warning." The PD, "Talkinthewalk," posted he decided to move away from political talk toward advice talk, and also dropped the conservative Tammy Bruce program for Dave Ramsey's financial advice show.
 
Re: Sorry to see anybody lose their job

> I guess you are no longer at WCOJ and the parting was not
> pleasant. From your posts, you seemed to believe in what
> you were selling and worked hard for them. I hope something
> opens up for you soon.
>
> > AAR should contact the (BLEEP) running WCOJ. They could
> > stand to replace Dr. Joy Browne, her show is awful, and
> > since they have no ratings, the success of Air America
> > wouldn't matter anyway.
> >
>
Mirriam,
that was my stock in trade. I love radio, I once believed in WCOJ ( under the guidance of their previous owner ) I, at one time felt like I was doing community service by going out and selling folks on the power of local radio and what that station was worth. Then some new clown came in and bought the station and hired one of his clown friends. Now I could give a rat's ass about it because these clowns have destroyed the station's heritage. I will do well soon, I have heart and I am true. thank you.
 
Re: Crummy signals mean crummy ratings

> WCOJ ran the Ed Schultz show last year in PM drive then
> suddenly cut the show out without warning. So apparently
> they decided not to run progressive talk.
>
>
> > AAR should contact the (BLEEP) running WCOJ. They could
> > stand to replace Dr. Joy Browne, her show is awful, and
> > since they have no ratings, the success of Air America
> > wouldn't matter anyway.
> >
>
WCOJ's new management decided to quit pounding the political drum, they run Schultz over night. They learned that one of their people had a connection to the WOR folks and the GM fell all over himself when he decided to get Jim Cramer and JOy Browne and Joey Reynolds on their airwaves. WCOJ doesn't have ratings except for the arbitron County Breakout, and nobody looks at those except for Route 81.
 
Re: Downplaying politics

> > WCOJ ran the Ed Schultz show last year in PM drive then
> > suddenly cut the show out without warning. So apparently
> > they decided not to run progressive talk.
> >
> >
>
> Most programming and personnel changes in radio are made
> "without warning." The PD, "Talkinthewalk," posted he
> decided to move away from political talk toward advice talk,
> and also dropped the conservative Tammy Bruce program for
> Dave Ramsey's financial advice show.
>
Tammy Bruce came onboard at WCOJ in place of Dave Ramsey ( which WCOJ already was running )because previous management had hired a consultant who loved Tammy's numbers in NY and the other huge markets she was in. Her show "zigged" where WCOJ's audience "Zagged". the stationdid nothing but lose listeners and piss off those who stayed on, until one bright shiny day her show was gone.
 
Re: Talk Formats Need Full Time Stations

> Philadelphia is limited in availability of full time full
> market AM signals needed to try to launch a format. Most
> people beyond radio geeks want to be able to turn on a
> station and hear their favorite format static free and clear
> 24/7 or they won't bother. In that respect WPEN seems to
> not be taking off as an alternative to Philadelphias top
> rated talk station WIP and might consider this prospect. So
> far in other markets this is still hard to set up.
> Philadelphia has one established contalk station WPHT
> ranking only just inside the top 15 in the last overall
> trends. Philadelphia prefers all news KYW overwealmingly to
> talk. Salem's WNTP has gained a little but is still a poor
> performance for a 50,000 watt signal that was once the #1
> station in town for a decade. Nationally the Salem
> conservative talkers and the Air America stations rank about
> the same in ratings, even though the Salem stations usually
> have better signals. It's just hard to compete against
> established stations.

No, it's not... at least in cities like Philly, Cleveland, Columbus, etc. One talk station, a mediocre one in this case. It's not like Salem doesn't have any resources, a common (and reasonable) excuse among independent operators; they just choose to be cheap and hire monkeys as PDs since that's about as complex as their lineup is. Since many of their spots are national buys that spillover from their pay-to-pray stations, they might as well just have one national automation feed in Dallas and have a :30 or :60 legal ID for all their stations. At least WNTP takes Savage...
 
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