I
INmyBlood
Guest
Looks as though Jack was the big winner...love to hear some demo stuff. Everone else about flat over last year...except down for the lake and 97 Rock. Up for YRK and HTT. What are your thoughts?
-
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12+ First Impressions: Winners & Whiners
> Looks as though Jack was the big winner...love to hear some
> demo stuff. Everone else about flat over last year...except
> down for the lake and 97 Rock. Up for YRK and HTT. What
> are your thoughts?
>
Before the suits at Infinity get all giddy and puffed-up over Jack's initial showing, they might want to consider the history of WBUF. There's format carnage strewn about the radio landscape: AC, Lite AC, Smooth Jazz, Alice, Dancin' Oldies, Active-Classic Rock, Talk and now, Jack. That's not an encouraging track record.
By the looks of the 12+ numbers published on Radio & Records website, Jack is making Star shine less brightly.
The Winners? WYRK; WHTT; WBLK, Jack.
The Whiners? The Lake; Wild; Star.
WYRK is an amazing station. One wonders why SOMEBODY isn't going after it. Seems that The Lake has leveled off. Does anyone else wonder what might have been if Entercom threw its resources into a COUNTRY format on 107.7 rather than going after 97 Rock?
WBLK is back in stride with a great morning show which sets the tone for the remainder of the station.
WKSE seems to be back on track, even more impressive given what the station's been through over the last year. Does the station have an official PD?
WHTT looks like it made the right move with personality changes and music alterations. Looks like its highest 12+ showing in years. Are the gains 25-54 or 35-64?
I would have thought the Edge would have done better, especially in Summer, when it maintains a high promotion profile.
97 Rock will be back strong with the Bills and an active promotional calendar in the Fall book.
KB just doesn't look like it has any traction, although it can be argued it's up from last summer. Still, a 1.6 12+ has it well behind WECK and barely ahead of its weak-sister WWWS.
WGR is flat from Spring but up considerable from last Summer, likely reflecting a new morning show that's a vast improvement over the yelping and blare of the previous characters.
How weird is it to look at the numbers from the R&R page and see WBBF in the BUFFALO listings?
The usual 12+ disclaimer should be applied to this analysis.
> Looks as though Jack was the big winner...love to hear some
> demo stuff. Everone else about flat over last year...except
> down for the lake and 97 Rock. Up for YRK and HTT. What
> are your thoughts?
>
Before the suits at Infinity get all giddy and puffed-up over Jack's initial showing, they might want to consider the history of WBUF. There's format carnage strewn about the radio landscape: AC, Lite AC, Smooth Jazz, Alice, Dancin' Oldies, Active-Classic Rock, Talk and now, Jack. That's not an encouraging track record.
By the looks of the 12+ numbers published on Radio & Records website, Jack is making Star shine less brightly.
The Winners? WYRK; WHTT; WBLK, Jack.
The Whiners? The Lake; Wild; Star.
WYRK is an amazing station. One wonders why SOMEBODY isn't going after it. Seems that The Lake has leveled off. Does anyone else wonder what might have been if Entercom threw its resources into a COUNTRY format on 107.7 rather than going after 97 Rock?
WBLK is back in stride with a great morning show which sets the tone for the remainder of the station.
WKSE seems to be back on track, even more impressive given what the station's been through over the last year. Does the station have an official PD?
WHTT looks like it made the right move with personality changes and music alterations. Looks like its highest 12+ showing in years. Are the gains 25-54 or 35-64?
I would have thought the Edge would have done better, especially in Summer, when it maintains a high promotion profile.
97 Rock will be back strong with the Bills and an active promotional calendar in the Fall book.
KB just doesn't look like it has any traction, although it can be argued it's up from last summer. Still, a 1.6 12+ has it well behind WECK and barely ahead of its weak-sister WWWS.
WGR is flat from Spring but up considerable from last Summer, likely reflecting a new morning show that's a vast improvement over the yelping and blare of the previous characters.
How weird is it to look at the numbers from the R&R page and see WBBF in the BUFFALO listings?
The usual 12+ disclaimer should be applied to this analysis.
D
DowntownBlake
Guest
Re: 12+ First Impressions: Winners & Whiners
-Our Top Stories: Jack Attack; WYRK, WHTT up four straight books.
-Will one of the “end-of-the-dial” Entercom properties finally mount a country challenge in 2006?
-Since ‘HTT has extricated itself from “traditional oldies” and seen its numbers improve, is there any hope left for KB at all?
-WBEN up, consistent. Would E’com consider a N/T (at least partial) simulcast at 107.7 to flank itself on FM?
-WBLK has stabilized itself with the Joyner move from WWWS. Meanwhile its AM challenger is seeing once-respectable numbers shrinking below KB.
-WGRF is becoming inconsistent 12+. The in-demo story is probably better, due to Bills cume coming and going, but has their dominant market position been cracked by The Lake, and now Jack?
-WKSE has stabilized with Sue O’Neill running things hands-on.
-On the other hand, WTSS has slipped slightly as Sue O’Neill handles double duty. Win some, lose some.
-No doubt it’s a strong debut for Jack. Are there factors that favor its long-term success?
-WEDG seems to be a victim of inconsistency in the quality of its core music. Playing more library than before. Will Tom & Ted get a bounce when Howard leaves?
-WLKK down 4 straight books. What needs to be done to re-spark this station?
-WECK is consistent, unspectacular.
-CKEY is no threat to anyone. Will that change with Dave U. on board?
-Our Top Stories: Jack Attack; WYRK, WHTT up four straight books.
-Will one of the “end-of-the-dial” Entercom properties finally mount a country challenge in 2006?
-Since ‘HTT has extricated itself from “traditional oldies” and seen its numbers improve, is there any hope left for KB at all?
-WBEN up, consistent. Would E’com consider a N/T (at least partial) simulcast at 107.7 to flank itself on FM?
-WBLK has stabilized itself with the Joyner move from WWWS. Meanwhile its AM challenger is seeing once-respectable numbers shrinking below KB.
-WGRF is becoming inconsistent 12+. The in-demo story is probably better, due to Bills cume coming and going, but has their dominant market position been cracked by The Lake, and now Jack?
-WKSE has stabilized with Sue O’Neill running things hands-on.
-On the other hand, WTSS has slipped slightly as Sue O’Neill handles double duty. Win some, lose some.
-No doubt it’s a strong debut for Jack. Are there factors that favor its long-term success?
-WEDG seems to be a victim of inconsistency in the quality of its core music. Playing more library than before. Will Tom & Ted get a bounce when Howard leaves?
-WLKK down 4 straight books. What needs to be done to re-spark this station?
-WECK is consistent, unspectacular.
-CKEY is no threat to anyone. Will that change with Dave U. on board?
Re: 12+ First Impressions: Winners & Whiners
> -Will one of the “end-of-the-dial” Entercom properties
> finally mount a country challenge in 2006?
I doubt it would happen with 107.7. That's been done. Although I would love to see what a true "hot' country station might do here.
> -No doubt it’s a strong debut for Jack. Are there factors
> that favor its long-term success?
This will be interesting to watch over, say, the next two years (if it makes it that long). What will happen in mornings? David Lee Roth??!! Or does Brother Wease make a re-appearance? I've heard a few more classic rock based tunes being mixed in too lately.
> -WEDG seems to be a victim of inconsistency in the quality
> of its core music. Playing more library than before. Will
> Tom & Ted get a bounce when Howard leaves?
WEDG has been a pleasant surprise to me. I wrongly wrote them off a long time ago. I think they have an interesting mix of music and do some interesting sspecialty weekends. Every once in awhile I hear a clunker but they keep me interested. I think they have a great airstaff too--I never gave them ANY credit for that.
> -WLKK down 4 straight books. What needs to be done to
> re-spark this station?
It sounds sleepy compared to JACK. Maybe they should go AAA? I'd love to see some current music played that doesn't get much or ANY play in Buffalo. Examples: John Hiatt, Wilco, and Trey Anastasio who has a new record coming out.
> -Will one of the “end-of-the-dial” Entercom properties
> finally mount a country challenge in 2006?
I doubt it would happen with 107.7. That's been done. Although I would love to see what a true "hot' country station might do here.
> -No doubt it’s a strong debut for Jack. Are there factors
> that favor its long-term success?
This will be interesting to watch over, say, the next two years (if it makes it that long). What will happen in mornings? David Lee Roth??!! Or does Brother Wease make a re-appearance? I've heard a few more classic rock based tunes being mixed in too lately.
> -WEDG seems to be a victim of inconsistency in the quality
> of its core music. Playing more library than before. Will
> Tom & Ted get a bounce when Howard leaves?
WEDG has been a pleasant surprise to me. I wrongly wrote them off a long time ago. I think they have an interesting mix of music and do some interesting sspecialty weekends. Every once in awhile I hear a clunker but they keep me interested. I think they have a great airstaff too--I never gave them ANY credit for that.
> -WLKK down 4 straight books. What needs to be done to
> re-spark this station?
It sounds sleepy compared to JACK. Maybe they should go AAA? I'd love to see some current music played that doesn't get much or ANY play in Buffalo. Examples: John Hiatt, Wilco, and Trey Anastasio who has a new record coming out.
Re: 12+ First Impressions: Winners & Whiners
No doubt it’s a strong debut for Jack. Are there factors
> > that favor its long-term success?
-Simply Put.
the ipod on FM, is their key. You tune in..you most likely
hear a song, like it or hate it, you are singing along to..
until you abruptly hear the jack-jingle/ID..etc. And, that
dead-pan,dry humour..works like a charm. Usually under
:10 seconds, funny, and by the time you get the full extent
of the 'joke' you are already humming the next song, or..
if a commercial set..say "huuge/mike barney nissan."
Jack-FM, this sounds horrible..but for success, almost
has to stay 'jockless'..unless 92.9 gets a local proven
aire-talent or a nationally syndicated show..then,
put them on aire !! if not, 92.9 will suffer with a DJ
doing a 3-5 minute break..when the listener has been
"spoiled" with an automated voice telling a quick joke
and working in 92.9/wbuf..
It doesnt work for the LAKE, on the other hand..because
(to me personally) i don't know/like the music. But, since
i am NOT the only one left in this shrinking wny area..
-It doesnt work on a whole..because the LAKE id's/liners,
and station's direction..well, is boring. It is geared for
an older audience..but NOT ONE that has reached the grave yet..
If the LAKE became a bit more obnoxious..or, at least added
some production elements to the breaks..they may start to see
an upward swing. To have a 'clang' and then all it says "107.7"
Well, i feel sea-sick..
The music guide concepts..'work' along with the station image..but,
have them well..alive..they sound bored, or as drunk as the
artists "107.7" is playing..
-wild101.com/ maybe the numbers aren't 'there' but it does
seem the station has gained momentum(?sp), and popularity
since they added more music/wider range of hits..yea,
the can-con 'gets' them..but, kiss98.5 seems - volunteerily,
to almost fill it w/ some of their fave. artists..so, it
cant always be the 'can-con' angle..i happen to be ~slightly~
impressed with 101.1 the past 4 or so months..
> WEDG has been a pleasant surprise to me. I wrongly wrote
> them off a long time ago. I think they have an interesting
> mix of music and do some interesting sspecialty weekends.
> Every once in awhile I hear a clunker but they keep me
> interested. I think they have a great airstaff too--I never
> gave them ANY credit for that.
i often tend to favor this station..and give them too much
credit, but (mentioned above) are the reasons they are
an awesome station..primarily(?sp), and the on-aire presence
and the weekend creativity..even when it is a "win nothing"
weekend..they still 'do some thing! '
No doubt it’s a strong debut for Jack. Are there factors
> > that favor its long-term success?
-Simply Put.
the ipod on FM, is their key. You tune in..you most likely
hear a song, like it or hate it, you are singing along to..
until you abruptly hear the jack-jingle/ID..etc. And, that
dead-pan,dry humour..works like a charm. Usually under
:10 seconds, funny, and by the time you get the full extent
of the 'joke' you are already humming the next song, or..
if a commercial set..say "huuge/mike barney nissan."
Jack-FM, this sounds horrible..but for success, almost
has to stay 'jockless'..unless 92.9 gets a local proven
aire-talent or a nationally syndicated show..then,
put them on aire !! if not, 92.9 will suffer with a DJ
doing a 3-5 minute break..when the listener has been
"spoiled" with an automated voice telling a quick joke
and working in 92.9/wbuf..
It doesnt work for the LAKE, on the other hand..because
(to me personally) i don't know/like the music. But, since
i am NOT the only one left in this shrinking wny area..
-It doesnt work on a whole..because the LAKE id's/liners,
and station's direction..well, is boring. It is geared for
an older audience..but NOT ONE that has reached the grave yet..
If the LAKE became a bit more obnoxious..or, at least added
some production elements to the breaks..they may start to see
an upward swing. To have a 'clang' and then all it says "107.7"
Well, i feel sea-sick..
The music guide concepts..'work' along with the station image..but,
have them well..alive..they sound bored, or as drunk as the
artists "107.7" is playing..
-wild101.com/ maybe the numbers aren't 'there' but it does
seem the station has gained momentum(?sp), and popularity
since they added more music/wider range of hits..yea,
the can-con 'gets' them..but, kiss98.5 seems - volunteerily,
to almost fill it w/ some of their fave. artists..so, it
cant always be the 'can-con' angle..i happen to be ~slightly~
impressed with 101.1 the past 4 or so months..
> WEDG has been a pleasant surprise to me. I wrongly wrote
> them off a long time ago. I think they have an interesting
> mix of music and do some interesting sspecialty weekends.
> Every once in awhile I hear a clunker but they keep me
> interested. I think they have a great airstaff too--I never
> gave them ANY credit for that.
i often tend to favor this station..and give them too much
credit, but (mentioned above) are the reasons they are
an awesome station..primarily(?sp), and the on-aire presence
and the weekend creativity..even when it is a "win nothing"
weekend..they still 'do some thing! '
R
raymond_shaw
Guest
Re: 12+ First Impressions: The Lake/KB
I'm not up in Buffalo much anymore and only heard Jack briefly when they first went on, but I hate to think they're taking a piece of The Lake's audience. Since getting a CD player in my car, I don't listen to FM much anymore, but recently starting checking out the Lake from here in Rochester...
You gotta a love a station that plays Desolation Row by Bob Dylan. The Lake beats the hell out of Classic Rock - Clear Channel style, here in Rochester.
I also started listening to KB again since they altered they're format to much more 50s and early 60s. It's a real trip down memory lane and reminds me of my early days of listening to the radio back in Buffalo when I was just a kid. I've been hoping they will become the baby boomer version of WECK and get similar numbers, but that doesn't seem to be happening. It's sad listening to Danny early in the morning and not hearing any commercials, but he and Tom Donahue sound great together. Danny/Tom, Sandy, Steve Mitchell and Jack Armstrong - what a lineup. The old jingles, the old pulse beat news sounder - really great. I fear it may appeal more to aging radioheads and not too many other people.
As one who detests today's generic radio, The Lake and KB are the only music stations worth listening to for me. I give credit to Entercom/Buffalo for taking the chance on both of them. I wish the ratings for both stations would be better.
> No doubt it’s a strong debut for Jack. Are there factors
> > > that favor its long-term success?
> -Simply Put.
> the ipod on FM, is their key. You tune in..you most likely
> hear a song, like it or hate it, you are singing along to..
> until you abruptly hear the jack-jingle/ID..etc. And, that
> dead-pan,dry humour..works like a charm. Usually under
> :10 seconds, funny, and by the time you get the full extent
> of the 'joke' you are already humming the next song, or..
> if a commercial set..say "huuge/mike barney nissan."
>
> Jack-FM, this sounds horrible..but for success, almost
> has to stay 'jockless'..unless 92.9 gets a local proven
> aire-talent or a nationally syndicated show..then,
> put them on aire !! if not, 92.9 will suffer with a DJ
> doing a 3-5 minute break..when the listener has been
> "spoiled" with an automated voice telling a quick joke
> and working in 92.9/wbuf..
>
> It doesnt work for the LAKE, on the other hand..because
> (to me personally) i don't know/like the music. But, since
> i am NOT the only one left in this shrinking wny area..
> -It doesnt work on a whole..because the LAKE id's/liners,
> and station's direction..well, is boring. It is geared for
> an older audience..but NOT ONE that has reached the grave
> yet..
>
> If the LAKE became a bit more obnoxious..or, at least added
> some production elements to the breaks..they may start to
> see
> an upward swing. To have a 'clang' and then all it says
> "107.7"
>
> Well, i feel sea-sick..
>
> The music guide concepts..'work' along with the station
> image..but,
> have them well..alive..they sound bored, or as drunk as the
> artists "107.7" is playing..
>
> -wild101.com/ maybe the numbers aren't 'there' but it does
> seem the station has gained momentum(?sp), and popularity
> since they added more music/wider range of hits..yea,
> the can-con 'gets' them..but, kiss98.5 seems - volunteerily,
>
> to almost fill it w/ some of their fave. artists..so, it
> cant always be the 'can-con' angle..i happen to be
> ~slightly~
> impressed with 101.1 the past 4 or so months..
>
> > WEDG has been a pleasant surprise to me. I wrongly wrote
> > them off a long time ago. I think they have an interesting
>
> > mix of music and do some interesting sspecialty weekends.
> > Every once in awhile I hear a clunker but they keep me
> > interested. I think they have a great airstaff too--I
> never
> > gave them ANY credit for that.
>
> i often tend to favor this station..and give them too much
> credit, but (mentioned above) are the reasons they are
> an awesome station..primarily(?sp), and the on-aire presence
>
> and the weekend creativity..even when it is a "win nothing"
> weekend..they still 'do some thing! '
>
I'm not up in Buffalo much anymore and only heard Jack briefly when they first went on, but I hate to think they're taking a piece of The Lake's audience. Since getting a CD player in my car, I don't listen to FM much anymore, but recently starting checking out the Lake from here in Rochester...
You gotta a love a station that plays Desolation Row by Bob Dylan. The Lake beats the hell out of Classic Rock - Clear Channel style, here in Rochester.
I also started listening to KB again since they altered they're format to much more 50s and early 60s. It's a real trip down memory lane and reminds me of my early days of listening to the radio back in Buffalo when I was just a kid. I've been hoping they will become the baby boomer version of WECK and get similar numbers, but that doesn't seem to be happening. It's sad listening to Danny early in the morning and not hearing any commercials, but he and Tom Donahue sound great together. Danny/Tom, Sandy, Steve Mitchell and Jack Armstrong - what a lineup. The old jingles, the old pulse beat news sounder - really great. I fear it may appeal more to aging radioheads and not too many other people.
As one who detests today's generic radio, The Lake and KB are the only music stations worth listening to for me. I give credit to Entercom/Buffalo for taking the chance on both of them. I wish the ratings for both stations would be better.
> No doubt it’s a strong debut for Jack. Are there factors
> > > that favor its long-term success?
> -Simply Put.
> the ipod on FM, is their key. You tune in..you most likely
> hear a song, like it or hate it, you are singing along to..
> until you abruptly hear the jack-jingle/ID..etc. And, that
> dead-pan,dry humour..works like a charm. Usually under
> :10 seconds, funny, and by the time you get the full extent
> of the 'joke' you are already humming the next song, or..
> if a commercial set..say "huuge/mike barney nissan."
>
> Jack-FM, this sounds horrible..but for success, almost
> has to stay 'jockless'..unless 92.9 gets a local proven
> aire-talent or a nationally syndicated show..then,
> put them on aire !! if not, 92.9 will suffer with a DJ
> doing a 3-5 minute break..when the listener has been
> "spoiled" with an automated voice telling a quick joke
> and working in 92.9/wbuf..
>
> It doesnt work for the LAKE, on the other hand..because
> (to me personally) i don't know/like the music. But, since
> i am NOT the only one left in this shrinking wny area..
> -It doesnt work on a whole..because the LAKE id's/liners,
> and station's direction..well, is boring. It is geared for
> an older audience..but NOT ONE that has reached the grave
> yet..
>
> If the LAKE became a bit more obnoxious..or, at least added
> some production elements to the breaks..they may start to
> see
> an upward swing. To have a 'clang' and then all it says
> "107.7"
>
> Well, i feel sea-sick..
>
> The music guide concepts..'work' along with the station
> image..but,
> have them well..alive..they sound bored, or as drunk as the
> artists "107.7" is playing..
>
> -wild101.com/ maybe the numbers aren't 'there' but it does
> seem the station has gained momentum(?sp), and popularity
> since they added more music/wider range of hits..yea,
> the can-con 'gets' them..but, kiss98.5 seems - volunteerily,
>
> to almost fill it w/ some of their fave. artists..so, it
> cant always be the 'can-con' angle..i happen to be
> ~slightly~
> impressed with 101.1 the past 4 or so months..
>
> > WEDG has been a pleasant surprise to me. I wrongly wrote
> > them off a long time ago. I think they have an interesting
>
> > mix of music and do some interesting sspecialty weekends.
> > Every once in awhile I hear a clunker but they keep me
> > interested. I think they have a great airstaff too--I
> never
> > gave them ANY credit for that.
>
> i often tend to favor this station..and give them too much
> credit, but (mentioned above) are the reasons they are
> an awesome station..primarily(?sp), and the on-aire presence
>
> and the weekend creativity..even when it is a "win nothing"
> weekend..they still 'do some thing! '
>
Re: 12+ First Impressions: Winners & Whiners
> > -Will one of the “end-of-the-dial” Entercom properties
> > finally mount a country challenge in 2006?
>
> I doubt it would happen with 107.7. That's been done.
> Although I would love to see what a true "hot' country
> station might do here.
DONE: It was 107seven WNUC (New Country) prior to being sold to a cable company that changed it over to sports format (107seven WNSA) then it was sold to Entercom, who chose to launch the Lake...if they saw a future with some form of Country they most likely would have gone after WYRK immediatly apon purchase.
The other important point is that they(Entercom) launched the Lake, when they had a perfect chance to launch their version of Jack, preventing 92.9 from becoming Jack...Did Entercom SEE something...or MISS something?
They are a share below Jack right now. <P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
> > -Will one of the “end-of-the-dial” Entercom properties
> > finally mount a country challenge in 2006?
>
> I doubt it would happen with 107.7. That's been done.
> Although I would love to see what a true "hot' country
> station might do here.
DONE: It was 107seven WNUC (New Country) prior to being sold to a cable company that changed it over to sports format (107seven WNSA) then it was sold to Entercom, who chose to launch the Lake...if they saw a future with some form of Country they most likely would have gone after WYRK immediatly apon purchase.
The other important point is that they(Entercom) launched the Lake, when they had a perfect chance to launch their version of Jack, preventing 92.9 from becoming Jack...Did Entercom SEE something...or MISS something?
They are a share below Jack right now. <P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
P
promorobot
Guest
Re: 12+ First Impressions: The Lake/KB
The rating snobs on this board have been sniping at the Lake since it debuted. First they predicted failure, it debuts strong. Then they predicted it would disappear, and while the numbers are down they are still decent for an ecclectic-format station. I think the 3's is where it will stay.
Everyone forgets WLKK has crap for a signal. They don't even put 1mv into Buffalo. To be doing a 3+ share is amazing! No one is going to tune them in if they become just like WYRK or WGRF. 107.7 was country and classic rock, and they did a 1 share. And don't blame the programming. You could be the greatest country or classic rock station ever, but you won't beat an decent incumbant with a local grade signal.
The point is the Lake has to be special for people to go out of their way for. They have a good thing going. I hope they don't screw it up.
PTR
> I'm not up in Buffalo much anymore and only heard Jack
> briefly when they first went on, but I hate to think they're
> taking a piece of The Lake's audience. Since getting a CD
> player in my car, I don't listen to FM much anymore, but
> recently starting checking out the Lake from here in
> Rochester...
>
> You gotta a love a station that plays Desolation Row by Bob
> Dylan. The Lake beats the hell out of Classic Rock - Clear
> Channel style, here in Rochester.
>
> I also started listening to KB again since they altered
> they're format to much more 50s and early 60s. It's a real
> trip down memory lane and reminds me of my early days of
> listening to the radio back in Buffalo when I was just a
> kid. I've been hoping they will become the baby boomer
> version of WECK and get similar numbers, but that doesn't
> seem to be happening. It's sad listening to Danny early in
> the morning and not hearing any commercials, but he and Tom
> Donahue sound great together. Danny/Tom, Sandy, Steve
> Mitchell and Jack Armstrong - what a lineup. The old
> jingles, the old pulse beat news sounder - really great. I
> fear it may appeal more to aging radioheads and not too many
> other people.
>
> As one who detests today's generic radio, The Lake and KB
> are the only music stations worth listening to for me. I
> give credit to Entercom/Buffalo for taking the chance on
> both of them. I wish the ratings for both stations would be
> better.
>
> > No doubt it’s a strong debut for Jack. Are there factors
> > > > that favor its long-term success?
> > -Simply Put.
> > the ipod on FM, is their key. You tune in..you most likely
>
> > hear a song, like it or hate it, you are singing along
> to..
> > until you abruptly hear the jack-jingle/ID..etc. And, that
>
> > dead-pan,dry humour..works like a charm. Usually under
> > :10 seconds, funny, and by the time you get the full
> extent
> > of the 'joke' you are already humming the next song, or..
> > if a commercial set..say "huuge/mike barney nissan."
> >
> > Jack-FM, this sounds horrible..but for success, almost
> > has to stay 'jockless'..unless 92.9 gets a local proven
> > aire-talent or a nationally syndicated show..then,
> > put them on aire !! if not, 92.9 will suffer with a DJ
> > doing a 3-5 minute break..when the listener has been
> > "spoiled" with an automated voice telling a quick joke
> > and working in 92.9/wbuf..
> >
> > It doesnt work for the LAKE, on the other hand..because
> > (to me personally) i don't know/like the music. But, since
>
> > i am NOT the only one left in this shrinking wny area..
> > -It doesnt work on a whole..because the LAKE id's/liners,
> > and station's direction..well, is boring. It is geared for
>
> > an older audience..but NOT ONE that has reached the grave
> > yet..
> >
> > If the LAKE became a bit more obnoxious..or, at least
> added
> > some production elements to the breaks..they may start to
> > see
> > an upward swing. To have a 'clang' and then all it says
> > "107.7"
> >
> > Well, i feel sea-sick..
> >
> > The music guide concepts..'work' along with the station
> > image..but,
> > have them well..alive..they sound bored, or as drunk as
> the
> > artists "107.7" is playing..
> >
> > -wild101.com/ maybe the numbers aren't 'there' but it does
>
> > seem the station has gained momentum(?sp), and popularity
> > since they added more music/wider range of hits..yea,
> > the can-con 'gets' them..but, kiss98.5 seems -
> volunteerily,
> >
> > to almost fill it w/ some of their fave. artists..so, it
> > cant always be the 'can-con' angle..i happen to be
> > ~slightly~
> > impressed with 101.1 the past 4 or so months..
> >
> > > WEDG has been a pleasant surprise to me. I wrongly wrote
>
> > > them off a long time ago. I think they have an
> interesting
> >
> > > mix of music and do some interesting sspecialty
> weekends.
> > > Every once in awhile I hear a clunker but they keep me
> > > interested. I think they have a great airstaff too--I
> > never
> > > gave them ANY credit for that.
> >
> > i often tend to favor this station..and give them too much
>
> > credit, but (mentioned above) are the reasons they are
> > an awesome station..primarily(?sp), and the on-aire
> presence
> >
> > and the weekend creativity..even when it is a "win
> nothing"
> > weekend..they still 'do some thing! '
> >
>
The rating snobs on this board have been sniping at the Lake since it debuted. First they predicted failure, it debuts strong. Then they predicted it would disappear, and while the numbers are down they are still decent for an ecclectic-format station. I think the 3's is where it will stay.
Everyone forgets WLKK has crap for a signal. They don't even put 1mv into Buffalo. To be doing a 3+ share is amazing! No one is going to tune them in if they become just like WYRK or WGRF. 107.7 was country and classic rock, and they did a 1 share. And don't blame the programming. You could be the greatest country or classic rock station ever, but you won't beat an decent incumbant with a local grade signal.
The point is the Lake has to be special for people to go out of their way for. They have a good thing going. I hope they don't screw it up.
PTR
> I'm not up in Buffalo much anymore and only heard Jack
> briefly when they first went on, but I hate to think they're
> taking a piece of The Lake's audience. Since getting a CD
> player in my car, I don't listen to FM much anymore, but
> recently starting checking out the Lake from here in
> Rochester...
>
> You gotta a love a station that plays Desolation Row by Bob
> Dylan. The Lake beats the hell out of Classic Rock - Clear
> Channel style, here in Rochester.
>
> I also started listening to KB again since they altered
> they're format to much more 50s and early 60s. It's a real
> trip down memory lane and reminds me of my early days of
> listening to the radio back in Buffalo when I was just a
> kid. I've been hoping they will become the baby boomer
> version of WECK and get similar numbers, but that doesn't
> seem to be happening. It's sad listening to Danny early in
> the morning and not hearing any commercials, but he and Tom
> Donahue sound great together. Danny/Tom, Sandy, Steve
> Mitchell and Jack Armstrong - what a lineup. The old
> jingles, the old pulse beat news sounder - really great. I
> fear it may appeal more to aging radioheads and not too many
> other people.
>
> As one who detests today's generic radio, The Lake and KB
> are the only music stations worth listening to for me. I
> give credit to Entercom/Buffalo for taking the chance on
> both of them. I wish the ratings for both stations would be
> better.
>
> > No doubt it’s a strong debut for Jack. Are there factors
> > > > that favor its long-term success?
> > -Simply Put.
> > the ipod on FM, is their key. You tune in..you most likely
>
> > hear a song, like it or hate it, you are singing along
> to..
> > until you abruptly hear the jack-jingle/ID..etc. And, that
>
> > dead-pan,dry humour..works like a charm. Usually under
> > :10 seconds, funny, and by the time you get the full
> extent
> > of the 'joke' you are already humming the next song, or..
> > if a commercial set..say "huuge/mike barney nissan."
> >
> > Jack-FM, this sounds horrible..but for success, almost
> > has to stay 'jockless'..unless 92.9 gets a local proven
> > aire-talent or a nationally syndicated show..then,
> > put them on aire !! if not, 92.9 will suffer with a DJ
> > doing a 3-5 minute break..when the listener has been
> > "spoiled" with an automated voice telling a quick joke
> > and working in 92.9/wbuf..
> >
> > It doesnt work for the LAKE, on the other hand..because
> > (to me personally) i don't know/like the music. But, since
>
> > i am NOT the only one left in this shrinking wny area..
> > -It doesnt work on a whole..because the LAKE id's/liners,
> > and station's direction..well, is boring. It is geared for
>
> > an older audience..but NOT ONE that has reached the grave
> > yet..
> >
> > If the LAKE became a bit more obnoxious..or, at least
> added
> > some production elements to the breaks..they may start to
> > see
> > an upward swing. To have a 'clang' and then all it says
> > "107.7"
> >
> > Well, i feel sea-sick..
> >
> > The music guide concepts..'work' along with the station
> > image..but,
> > have them well..alive..they sound bored, or as drunk as
> the
> > artists "107.7" is playing..
> >
> > -wild101.com/ maybe the numbers aren't 'there' but it does
>
> > seem the station has gained momentum(?sp), and popularity
> > since they added more music/wider range of hits..yea,
> > the can-con 'gets' them..but, kiss98.5 seems -
> volunteerily,
> >
> > to almost fill it w/ some of their fave. artists..so, it
> > cant always be the 'can-con' angle..i happen to be
> > ~slightly~
> > impressed with 101.1 the past 4 or so months..
> >
> > > WEDG has been a pleasant surprise to me. I wrongly wrote
>
> > > them off a long time ago. I think they have an
> interesting
> >
> > > mix of music and do some interesting sspecialty
> weekends.
> > > Every once in awhile I hear a clunker but they keep me
> > > interested. I think they have a great airstaff too--I
> > never
> > > gave them ANY credit for that.
> >
> > i often tend to favor this station..and give them too much
>
> > credit, but (mentioned above) are the reasons they are
> > an awesome station..primarily(?sp), and the on-aire
> presence
> >
> > and the weekend creativity..even when it is a "win
> nothing"
> > weekend..they still 'do some thing! '
> >
>
Re: 12+ First Impressions: The Lake/KB
"> The point is the Lake has to be special for people to go out
> of their way for. They have a good thing going. I hope
> they don't screw it up."
They must have done some form of research, otherwise they WOULD have been Ficle or Mike or something like that instead. (using examples of actual names of sister Entercom stations, in place of Jack, respectfully)<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
"> The point is the Lake has to be special for people to go out
> of their way for. They have a good thing going. I hope
> they don't screw it up."
They must have done some form of research, otherwise they WOULD have been Ficle or Mike or something like that instead. (using examples of actual names of sister Entercom stations, in place of Jack, respectfully)<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
Lake Bottom?
The Lake does have signal problems, which means there has to be a compelling reason to seek them out. When they went with the current format, they were unique in their presentation of a wide variety of music.
Unfortunately, they are doomed because any time they come up with a successful format, one of the other higher-powered FMs can undercut them by co-opting the format.
97-Rock and WHTT reacted by expanding their playlists, and now Jack has attacked with a wide variety of HITS from the '80s and '90s. The Lake's music is no longer as fresh as it was at the start, and their presentation is uninspiring. They have faded for three straight books, and are now doing a 3-share. I don't know if that's enough to generate the revenue necessary to pay off a $10.5-million dollar note.
Their role as a flanker for KISS and STAR only works if those stations are successful enough to support them, and I'll bet there's some real concern at Corporate Parkway about the performance of those properties.
The Lake does have signal problems, which means there has to be a compelling reason to seek them out. When they went with the current format, they were unique in their presentation of a wide variety of music.
Unfortunately, they are doomed because any time they come up with a successful format, one of the other higher-powered FMs can undercut them by co-opting the format.
97-Rock and WHTT reacted by expanding their playlists, and now Jack has attacked with a wide variety of HITS from the '80s and '90s. The Lake's music is no longer as fresh as it was at the start, and their presentation is uninspiring. They have faded for three straight books, and are now doing a 3-share. I don't know if that's enough to generate the revenue necessary to pay off a $10.5-million dollar note.
Their role as a flanker for KISS and STAR only works if those stations are successful enough to support them, and I'll bet there's some real concern at Corporate Parkway about the performance of those properties.
Re: 12+ First Impressions: The Lake/KB
> The rating snobs on this board have been sniping at the Lake
> since it debuted. First they predicted failure, it debuts
> strong. Then they predicted it would disappear, and while
> the numbers are down they are still decent for an
> ecclectic-format station. I think the 3's is where it will
> stay.
<font face="times new roman" color="330066" size="3">
You make valid points. As one who might fall into the "ratings snob" category, I have praised the Lake and ripped it as well. Check my posts and you'll see that I have given it more than a fair shake. Having offered this disclaimer, being in "the 3's" isn't going to make it long term. It depends largely where the 25-54 number is, particularly 25-54 Men. One thing the Lake has going for it, David Field absolutely loves the format and believes in it. So maybe riding a 3 share is acceptable to him.
The Lake is just one tine in the fork which Entercom uses to take shares away from 97 Rock, the dominant station with 25-54 Men. Say what you will about Classic Rock as a format and 97 Rock in particular, the station is unique to Buffalo. Arguably, it has the best branding in the market.
The other tine in the form is WGR sports radio. Thus far, 97 Rock seems to have weathered the storm quite well, beating WGR and the Lake solo and combo.
Sales people from each of the Buffalo clusters have told me the Lake does reasonably well with Men 25-54. Its numbers aren't massive, but it places in the top five and in some dayparts, top three, Men 25-54. Whether this is still true in the Summer book is anybody's guess, not much about the 25-54's from the Summer book has been seen or heard.
</font>
> Everyone forgets WLKK has crap for a signal. They don't
> even put 1mv into Buffalo. To be doing a 3+ share is
> amazing! No one is going to tune them in if they become
> just like WYRK or WGRF. 107.7 was country and classic rock,
> and they did a 1 share. And don't blame the programming.
<font face="times new roman" color="330066" size="3">
We can argue the 60 and 70 dbu contours til we're blue in the face. A check of Radio Locator shows 107.7 lacks penetration in the city of Buffalo. Arguably, this makes listening to the lake "at work" difficult for those offices in the city. Here's where WJYE gets the nod because it has 50kW blazing off the top of the Rand building. Yet don't forget, when the Bear was on 107.7, is drew a 7 share... at least for a book or two when 96.9 was playing Air Supply.
Not everybody works in the city or downtown particularly. Thousands work in Amherst, Cheektowaga, Lancaster, Williamsville, Tonawanda; areas where the Lake comes in quite well.</font>
> The point is the Lake has to be special for people to go out
> of their way for. They have a good thing going. I hope
> they don't screw it up.
<font face="times new roman" color="330066" size="3">
Some Lake listeners will go out of there way to get a signal in their office, stringing up a bassic dipole or bending a coat hanger to get the signal. If, as the Lake is fond of saying, their listeners are "passionate" about the music, they'll go through great lengths to receive the station.</font>
> >
> > I also started listening to KB again since they altered
> > they're format to much more 50s and early 60s... I
> > fear it may appeal more to aging radioheads and not too
> > many other people.
> >
<font face="times new roman" color="330066" size="3">
This is exactly what the station has become. Not a bad thing to be sure, but not what was expected of the station.</font>
> The rating snobs on this board have been sniping at the Lake
> since it debuted. First they predicted failure, it debuts
> strong. Then they predicted it would disappear, and while
> the numbers are down they are still decent for an
> ecclectic-format station. I think the 3's is where it will
> stay.
<font face="times new roman" color="330066" size="3">
You make valid points. As one who might fall into the "ratings snob" category, I have praised the Lake and ripped it as well. Check my posts and you'll see that I have given it more than a fair shake. Having offered this disclaimer, being in "the 3's" isn't going to make it long term. It depends largely where the 25-54 number is, particularly 25-54 Men. One thing the Lake has going for it, David Field absolutely loves the format and believes in it. So maybe riding a 3 share is acceptable to him.
The Lake is just one tine in the fork which Entercom uses to take shares away from 97 Rock, the dominant station with 25-54 Men. Say what you will about Classic Rock as a format and 97 Rock in particular, the station is unique to Buffalo. Arguably, it has the best branding in the market.
The other tine in the form is WGR sports radio. Thus far, 97 Rock seems to have weathered the storm quite well, beating WGR and the Lake solo and combo.
Sales people from each of the Buffalo clusters have told me the Lake does reasonably well with Men 25-54. Its numbers aren't massive, but it places in the top five and in some dayparts, top three, Men 25-54. Whether this is still true in the Summer book is anybody's guess, not much about the 25-54's from the Summer book has been seen or heard.
</font>
> Everyone forgets WLKK has crap for a signal. They don't
> even put 1mv into Buffalo. To be doing a 3+ share is
> amazing! No one is going to tune them in if they become
> just like WYRK or WGRF. 107.7 was country and classic rock,
> and they did a 1 share. And don't blame the programming.
<font face="times new roman" color="330066" size="3">
We can argue the 60 and 70 dbu contours til we're blue in the face. A check of Radio Locator shows 107.7 lacks penetration in the city of Buffalo. Arguably, this makes listening to the lake "at work" difficult for those offices in the city. Here's where WJYE gets the nod because it has 50kW blazing off the top of the Rand building. Yet don't forget, when the Bear was on 107.7, is drew a 7 share... at least for a book or two when 96.9 was playing Air Supply.
Not everybody works in the city or downtown particularly. Thousands work in Amherst, Cheektowaga, Lancaster, Williamsville, Tonawanda; areas where the Lake comes in quite well.</font>
> The point is the Lake has to be special for people to go out
> of their way for. They have a good thing going. I hope
> they don't screw it up.
<font face="times new roman" color="330066" size="3">
Some Lake listeners will go out of there way to get a signal in their office, stringing up a bassic dipole or bending a coat hanger to get the signal. If, as the Lake is fond of saying, their listeners are "passionate" about the music, they'll go through great lengths to receive the station.</font>
> >
> > I also started listening to KB again since they altered
> > they're format to much more 50s and early 60s... I
> > fear it may appeal more to aging radioheads and not too
> > many other people.
> >
<font face="times new roman" color="330066" size="3">
This is exactly what the station has become. Not a bad thing to be sure, but not what was expected of the station.</font>
Re: Lake Bottom?
All good points Sir Rox, but still, IF Star and Kiss go up or stay flat...or very close to flat, and the lake maintains no less than a 3.0, in the next book or so, change may not be necessary. Yes? no?
I'm also supporting Benefit of the doubt, in respect to the 107.7 frequency.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
All good points Sir Rox, but still, IF Star and Kiss go up or stay flat...or very close to flat, and the lake maintains no less than a 3.0, in the next book or so, change may not be necessary. Yes? no?
I'm also supporting Benefit of the doubt, in respect to the 107.7 frequency.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
Re: 12+ First Impressions: Winners & Whiners
>
> DONE: It was 107seven WNUC (New Country) prior to being sold
> to a cable company that changed it over to sports format
> (107seven WNSA) then it was sold to Entercom, who chose to
> launch the Lake
Agreed. I didn't that attempt was all that great. I still don't think it would work---unless you are catering to the suburbs/outlying areas.
>
> DONE: It was 107seven WNUC (New Country) prior to being sold
> to a cable company that changed it over to sports format
> (107seven WNSA) then it was sold to Entercom, who chose to
> launch the Lake
Agreed. I didn't that attempt was all that great. I still don't think it would work---unless you are catering to the suburbs/outlying areas.
Re: Lake Bottom?
> All good points Sir Rox, but still, IF Star and Kiss go up
> or stay flat...or very close to flat, and the lake maintains
> no less than a 3.0, in the next book or so, change may not
> be necessary. Yes? no?
> I'm also supporting Benefit of the doubt, in respect to the
> 107.7 frequency.
If The Lake can stay around a 3.0, Entercom may well be happy with it. I personally think the sound is getting old, and the station needs tweaking if they want to stay in the race. I also don't understand why they haven't promoted it more in Rochester, and added it to their sales offerings there.
At the moment, I suspect that Star is a much bigger concern on Corporate Parkway.
> All good points Sir Rox, but still, IF Star and Kiss go up
> or stay flat...or very close to flat, and the lake maintains
> no less than a 3.0, in the next book or so, change may not
> be necessary. Yes? no?
> I'm also supporting Benefit of the doubt, in respect to the
> 107.7 frequency.
If The Lake can stay around a 3.0, Entercom may well be happy with it. I personally think the sound is getting old, and the station needs tweaking if they want to stay in the race. I also don't understand why they haven't promoted it more in Rochester, and added it to their sales offerings there.
At the moment, I suspect that Star is a much bigger concern on Corporate Parkway.
Re: Lake Bottom?
> I also don't understand why they haven't promoted it
> more in Rochester, and added it to their sales offerings
> there.
But then, how is the signal in Rochester? Wasn't it stronger when the old WNSA brodadcast in mono instead of stereo?
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
> I also don't understand why they haven't promoted it
> more in Rochester, and added it to their sales offerings
> there.
But then, how is the signal in Rochester? Wasn't it stronger when the old WNSA brodadcast in mono instead of stereo?
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
Lake in Rochester
> But then, how is the signal in Rochester? Wasn't it stronger
> when the old WNSA brodadcast in mono instead of stereo?
I've heard that it's as good in Rochester as it is in Buffalo - which may be damning it with faint praise. Perhaps some of our Rochester residents can chime in with their take on the Lake.
> But then, how is the signal in Rochester? Wasn't it stronger
> when the old WNSA brodadcast in mono instead of stereo?
I've heard that it's as good in Rochester as it is in Buffalo - which may be damning it with faint praise. Perhaps some of our Rochester residents can chime in with their take on the Lake.
- Status
- This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.