WHTT - "BUFFALO'S BEST MUSIC MIX"?

[BUFFALOFLYGUY]

Is this going to be a continuing evelution of WHTT, or am I reading too much hype in to this? The station began as "Oldies 104", then all of a sudden, they began playing 70's hits branding themselves "Buffalo's Greatest Hits" and now, they are Buffalo's Best Music Mix. Does anyone out there have any thoughts as to where WHTT is going? If I could take a blind guess, maybe they are gearing up for the post Thanksgiving exit to WHTT from 'JYE and Star 102.5. or could there be something bigger that I may be missing?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Miss-Hits

Hmmm. With call letters like "WHTT", it seems odd that they'd give up the word "hit" in their slogan. Going to "mix" brings back memories of "Mix 92.9".

They're obviously not your father's Oldies station anymore, and haven't been for a long time. If they're going straight at 'JYE and Star, what's going to distinguish them from the other two? WHTT arguably has stronger personalities.

It will be interesting to see if they drop all the '60s music. They'd be abandoning the core audience that has so far followed them in their evolution, and it seems to me that 'JYE has added some classic Motown, Righteous Brothers, and the like as a reaction to WHTT's addition of newer music.

The day that they start playing Celine Dion is the day that I put them on the second tier of buttons in my car.

 

[Element9]

About a year ago, WHTT sounded like it was trending toward classic hits, the format that it had around 86, 87 or 88. Maybe it came too close for comfort to 97 Rock, because lately, it sounds like a mix (ohhhh, NOW I get it) of 70's, 70's disco, 80's dance and 90's with an occasional Motown song tossed in. Hmmmm, maybe Mix does make some kind of sense.

Can Buffalo support three AC stations? Four, actually, since WYRK is probably just as much an AC station for some listeners as it is a Country station. It is afterall, Adult and Contemporary.

Could the time be right for a good oldies-classic hits station on AM or FM. It would seem to fit WECK better than its current classic country format. WJJL? WLVL? WHLD? WWKB? (God help us.)

-9-

 

[Radknowski]

• ...About a year ago, WHTT sounded like it was trending toward classic hits, the format that it had around 86, 87 or 88. Maybe it came too close for comfort to 97 Rock...

Bingo! We have a winner! To quote the TV commercial, 9: "Brilliant!" Just checked the WHTT website and all signs of "Buffalo's Greatest Hits" have been replaced with "Buffalo's Best Mix." (Flour, sugar, butter and half tablespoon of maple syrup?)

As my board colleague (hah!) "Element 9" points out, it could be that the lines between 96.9 and 104.1 were getting blurred and a more feminine slant was in order to differentiate the stations and get more Women inside the tent. Guys like Roxalot may be inclined to take the station off the first tier of their car radio settings, but because every action has an equal and opposite reaction, perhaps more women between 35 and 54 will be setting a button to 104.1 on their car radio's first tier. Hard to predict.

True, "Greatest Hits" has a clear correlation to WHTT, which over the past 20 years have become heritage call letters in Buffalo. But it's doubtful that WHTT will disappear in favor of a set of "Mix" call letters. If anything, it's likely the call letters will be emphasized even more in connection with the frequency and the "Mix" slogan.

• "...Can Buffalo support three AC stations? Four, actually, since WYRK is probably just as much an AC station for some listeners as it is a Country station. It is afterall, Adult and Contemporary...

This will be an interesting experiment, especially as we approach Thanksgiving. In the Christmas Music Sweepstakes, November 22 is my guess as the date WJYE and WTSS go All Christmas, All the Time. When that happens, all bets are off the table as to what happens on 104.1. It could be that they slide into the AC or even Hot AC void, spicing things up with an occasional Christmas song.

• "...Could the time be right for a good oldies-classic hits station on AM or FM. It would seem to fit WECK better than its current classic country format. WJJL? WLVL? WHLD? WWKB?..."

KB may have spolied it for Oldies. If a 50kW AM can't get it done with the format and the heritage personalities, the format isn't likely to do anything on a low power AM. It would be interesting to hear how 107.7 might react. Imagine the Four Seasons, Roy Orbison, Shangri-La's and Elvis on the far right side of the FM band. Then again, there's the issue of signal strength.

As to WHTT, the field is wide open. They can define "Mix" any way they'd like: AC, Hot AC, Re-current AC, Gold AC, Rock AC, Urban AC... it should be interesting to observe the course WHTT charts with this next step in its evolution.[/Mike]

 

[raymond_shaw]

This is a good example of why radio is slowly becoming obsolete as a free music delivery system - olides(apparently even 70s oldies) is going the way of the old beautiful music format. Quite popular and stations do a good job of bonding with their audience - until the audience ceases to be demographically pure - then it's adios and let's move on to a more marketable format. Even formats like country - the format stays, but the artists constantly change and the older artists are forgotten.

Satellite, Ipods and other new technologies allow you to listen to what you want, whenever you want. On top of that, commercial stations usually offer generic non personality announcers. Is there an incentive to listen here? I don't think so.

 

[SpareChange]

Just returned from a week in Cleveland (btw, a marvelous city) and hadn't heard any difference on WHTT as I drove in, UNTIL getting home and reading this thread. I didn't even notice the word Mix had replaced Greatest Hits. Everything sounded basically the same, the usual Buffalo personalities and 60's, 70's and 80's like the Four Tops, Mellencamp, Fleetwood Mac, Eagles, some Eurythmics, all pretty good. But after reading this thread, I noticed the Mix and a new station voice. There's another thing I did notice yesterday, lots of commercials.

 

[fredburg97]

This thread is frustrating: WHTT is still the same - same "mix," same boring personalities. The only thing changed is the slogan, the logic of which still escapes me. Unless they're planning a call letter change, "Mix" and "HTT" are not going to ring any bells with diary keepers.

>> They're obviously not your father's Oldies station anymore, and haven't been for a long time. If they're
>> going straight at 'JYE and Star, what's going to distinguish them from the other two? WHTT arguably has >> stronger personalities.

STRONGER personalities? Are you joking?

And all this talk about HTT moving into the AC format is much ado about nothing. Any kind of move into that arena would lessen their ratings even more than they already are. "Mix" sounds to me like a rudderless ship, struggling to find a reason for being. Going up against Star, Joy, and even Jack? Unless they're planning a massive marketing attack debuting the new format, with a LOT of cash to get people to change their minds about the station, it will be suicide.

Interesting to watch a station implode like this, though....

 

[Yeziknoradio]

So what are we all saying here?
Are we saying that what WHTT is doing now, is what 92.9 should have done instead of going with Dancin' oldies when they did?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Implosion?

Fred, I don't know what you're listening to, but I think that WHTT's lineup is much longer on personality than most. Listening to Harv Moore and Jim Pastrick entertain within the confines of the format is a graduate course in radio. Bill Lacy is a pro at family-friendly radio, and the bodies they have on the weekend aren't just live, but lively.

Does every daypart ramble on like a morning show? No, thank goodness. This is a MUSIC station. If you compare WHTT to WJYE, Star, Jack, or the Lake, their lineup of air talent wins hands down on my scorecard.

As far as WHTT's ratings are concerned, please do enlighten us. The continued embargo doesn't even allow us "beauty contest" numbers, but my sources indicate that WHTT has done very nicely increasing the more marketable demographics under age 55. There are several stations in town who would LOVE to "implode" they way that they have.

They sure aren't "oldies" anymore. Their evolution has been interesting to watch. I'm not sure that the "Mix" moniker means anything to people outside radio, and I'm waiting to see the effect of this latest rebranding attempt.

 

[fredburg97]

Rox, what exactly makes any HTT personality better than a Joe Chille, or a Roger Christian, other than your opinion? In a recent listener perceptual study, not one HTT personality had name recognition better than 3% in the market. The Janet Snyders and Nortons and Delilahs everyone knows, but no one, it seems (aside from you) even know the names of anyone on HTT. You even know the HTT weekenders', so it would be difficult for anyone to take anything you say about the new "Mix" seriously.

In the recent Summer book, HTT is down in every demo - 12+ and 25-54. Not only from the Spring, but also from last Summer. Not a positive indicator by any stretch. With GRF not doing well either, and Citadel as a whole with mostly men and really no women numbers to speak of, obviously HTT is trying to grab some females the only way it knows how - by skewing more AC, into very crowded waters.

Will it work? No. Does HTT skew female at all in its delivery, promotions, or approach? No. Can it succeed against the stations that already cater to females, and do it extremely well already? No, unless they're planning a massive marketing campaign and a complete change in approach, including - perhaps - new personalities that register higher than 10% in listener recall.

If that's not implosion, I don't know what is.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Fred, it seems that SOMEONE is doing some serious research here, huh? If your research didn't come up with better than 3% name recognition on Harv Moore and Bill Lacy, you may need to check your methodology or let us in the criteria used to select your focus groups.

Joe Chille & Roger Christian have been around forever, but I don't find them as entertaining as Harv Moore, or Jim Pastrick. Of course, that's my opinion, on an opinion board. This is not meant to disparage Roger or Joe as human beings. To the best of my knowledge, they're nice guys, and smooth in the format. As far as the weekend guys on WHTT are concerned, I know who they are because I listen to the radio station, and because I've been around Buffalo radio long enough to remember Walker, Schuh, and even Ventaroli (sp?) from their previous jobs in the market.

My sources tell me that WHTT did not do well in the summer book. They were, in fact, up in men 25-54 from the last book, but down from last spring. Considering the changes they've made in music, it's not surprising that there is some audience shift going on, especially in a summer book when the kids are home and grabbing control of the radio. I'm not sure I'd base all my programming decisions on a summer book.

As far as the success of WHTT is concerned, they have their problems, like all stations. Time will tell whether your assessment of the situation is correct or not. If one followed your advice to replace air personalities and marketing strategies based on one down book, Star "imploded" a year ago, and again last spring in their target demo. WJYE "imploded" 35-64 last spring.

It sounds to me like somebody in the Rand building is spending some money on research because they're concerned about the competition. Thanks for adding your bean counting to the conversation.

 

[Call Me Sherlock]

So Fred, give us some benchmarks. What kind of numbers do Norton, Janet (from another planet) and Delilah show? Why don't you enlighten us by posting the top 10 votegetters with their scores.

I was involved in some research of this nature in the past and outside of Danny Neaverth and one or two others, the scores were surprisingly low even for long-time Buffalo personalities.

I don't follow your logic. It's doubtful that a NEW personality is likely to register 10% or higher in listener recall when others who have been in the market for years fail to break the 3% threshold.

 

[Element9]

Rox, what exactly makes any HTT personality better than a Joe Chille, or a Roger Christian, other than your opinion? In a recent listener perceptual study, not one HTT personality had name recognition better than 3% in the market.

Something's wrong with the research. Is it based solely on Women or Persons 25-64, 25-54, 35-54? Don't you think that BILL LACY, a market mainstay at WBEN would click higher than 3%. How about Gail Ann Huber, who interloped on the WYRK morning show for all those years? Harv Moor might be associated more with WPHD and Jim Pastrick might be more connected to 97 Rock. Are you saying these men and women AREN'T good radio people? Because if that's your case, you're wrong.

Speaking of personality and name recognition, Star and WJYE combined don't come close to Norton, Russo, J-P and Slick Tom on 97 Rock in Persons 25-54. Narrow that to Men 25-54, it's off the chart. Hell, the 97 Rock weekend part-timers probably have a higher Q than some of the fulltimers at WJYE. But we were talking about WJYE, WHTT and Star, so lI'll re-focus.

(((BTW, who's the afternoon guy on Soft Rock Favorites? And just what the HELL is SOFT ROCK FAVORITES besides a slogan that George Carlin could riff on for at least ten minutes. How 'bout the midday person? Isn't she the one that tore a path through the WYRK morning show and WJYE. And Delilah? It's a ratings monster in red state markets and cities like Buffalo where overweight-divorced-cottage-cheese-thighed-women dig her act. Being a guy and prefer 97 Rock, Q-107 and 97-7. I'll even through WBEN in there too. At night, when I'm listening to radio, it's Slick Tom or maybe Ron Dobson on WBEN.)))

The Janet Snyders and Nortons and Delilahs everyone knows, but no one, it seems (aside from you) even know the names of anyone on HTT. You even know the HTT weekenders', so it would be difficult for anyone to take anything you say about the new "Mix" seriously.

This is a radio board. Rox, like many of us, obviously knows radio. From everything he's written over the years (not all of which I've agreed with), it's clear that he's a fan and advocate of the business. Any poster worth his keyboard should know the personalities because we LIKE listening to radio.

In the recent Summer book, HTT is down in every demo - 12+ and 25-54. Not only from the Spring, but also from last Summer. Not a positive indicator by any stretch.

SUMMER book? Why not Winter while you're at it? Yes, WJYE roared back from a flacid Spring book and killed in the Summer book. They deserve props for that. BTW, are we talking Women or Persons? Because WHTT usually performs well in Persons, although they took it in the shorts this past Summer. But where was WJYE last Spring?

With GRF not doing well either, and Citadel as a whole with mostly men and really no women numbers to speak of, obviously HTT is trying to grab some females the only way it knows how - by skewing more AC, into very crowded waters. Will it work? No.

"No?" And you know this for fact... Fred, can you help us out on next Wednesday's Lotto numbers, maybe tell us when we'll be out of Iraq?

Face it. The Arbitron crap-shoot is speciuos in any period and the Fall book is a lot different than Summer, a time when listening patterns and habits are anything but routine. Listeners are on vacation, kids are out of school. Do you discount a book because of this? No. But you sure as hell don't give it the weight you'd give the Fall or Spring books!

I'm not defending the WHTT "Mix" approach until I hear more, but I'm not buying what you're selling with WJYE, either. In the last two years, WHTT has put up some impressive numbers, Persons 25-54 and has even taken it to WJYE in some dayparts, although Summer 2006 wasn't WHTT's finest showing.

Does HTT skew female at all in its delivery, promotions, or approach? No. Can it succeed against the stations that already cater to females, and do it extremely well already? No, unless they're planning a massive marketing campaign and a complete change in approach, including - perhaps - new personalities that register higher than 10% in listener recall.If that's not implosion, I don't know what is.

Ah, balls! AC isn't about personality. It's about at-work listening, re-cycling and playing the same well-tested stuff over and over, executing the contests and doing good promotions. Read the liners, shut up and play Celine Dionne and Phil Collins and tell the women how much they can win, so they can call your contest line, then call Star's contest line and later try WYRK's contest line... and if they remember, give you some credit when they fill out thier diaries at the end of the week, because even though women are known to be diligent diary keepers, they still fill the damn things out during the last day or two of the survey week.

-9-

 

[SpareChange]

...even though women are known to be diligent diary keepers, they still fill the damn things out during the last day or two of the survey week.

After reading 9's post, this is the one line that hit home. It's 2006, yet the business still relies on listeners recording what they listened to in a paper booklet. I had a diary 11 years ago when I was on the beach for about a year and even being a radio person, I didn't pay attention to it until the last few days of the week and only after being prodded by phone calls from Arbitron. Another point, WHTT lost a lot of listener loyalty and differentiation when they dropped "Oldies" from their name. In fairness, they were damned if the did and damned if they didn't. They had a good ride with Oldies.

 

[Philip_Airtime]

I just need to jump in here. I question the methodology of a study that says Bill Lacy's name recognition stands at three percent in this market. Bill had huge shares while serving as morning man at WBEN. I don't need a friggin' study to tell me that Bill Lacy's name is on par with Larry Norton and Janet Snyder in this market. I don't want to dismiss Joe Chille and Roger Christian. They're very good, and I'm amazed at how Roger has survived call letter and format changes at 102.5. But I agree with those who say the WHTT line-up is a bit stronger. And WHTT is far from being a station that's imploding.

 

[Radknowski]

Good points Phil. The research that's been alluded to seems suspect. And really, when it's all said and done, what would any jock or PD prefer, high recognition scores (which are alway$ nice) or big $hare$ in the target demo? BTW, we listened to WJYE on the job yesterday. It was hard to tell what was more exciting, the station or watching the plaster dry.[/Mike]

 

[Bob1370]

We're really just talking about a positioning statement that differs a little from what they've put on the air before--the station is still the same personality classic-hits station that it's been since just a little before they finally dropped the Oldies 104 slogan.

Stations in all formats change their positioning statements all the time, about every couple of years or so, without fundamentally changing what the station is about. This is just another example of that.