• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Why 11:35 and not 11:30?

A

AKA

In 1991, The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson moved its start time back five minutes to 11:35 pm. Nightline eventually followed suit, as did Late Show with David Letterman upon its August, 1993 debut.

Why, exactly, was this move made? What do the networks and the affiliates have to gain by having irregular start times late at night? Does it have to do with advertising revenue for the local stations' late local news, as I've heard hypothesized, or is there some weird "Turner Time" ratings theory in play here?Could ABC, CBS or NBC gain more ratings traction if they moved their show back to 11:30 and had a head-start on the competition (Nightline could return to a full thirty-minute broadcast), or would viewers miss the extra five minutes of local news?

Today, by the way, the start times are even more bizarre: The Tonight Show with Jay Leno starts at around 11:34 pm, and Craig Ferguson and Jimmy Fallon's shows have 12:37 am start times.
 
So it's solely for the benefit of the affiliates, then.

Was Johnny upset by this move (since NBC was first), or did he not have much to say about it since he was on his way out?
 
radiojomo said:
Simple answer: 5 more mins of ads for the late local news.
Click to expand...

Yes - it was to give the late local news a few extra minutes, and allow them to make some extra $$$. It was no big loss for the networks, and viewers got used to it pretty quickly.
 
Before ABC and CBS pushed back the start of late-night programming by 5 minutes, a lot of their affiliates who weren't clearing the network at 11:30/10:30C had been starting their syndicated shows at :35 after for a number of years.

KARE in Minneapolis, which was one of the very few NBC affiliates that was ever allowed to show Carson on a delay, started its syndicated show at 10:40 Central and started Carson at 11:10. At least that's how it was in the late '80s.
 
Traditionally the 10 PM local news is the cash cow on affiliates in
the Central and Mountain time zones; as far back as the '70s ABC
and CBS affiliates were adding an extra five minutes (and one more
commercial break) to the news; the practice spread by sometime in
the '80s to ABC and CBS affiliates on the two coasts. NBC had held
firm until its affiliates demanded in effect, why can't we have the extra
five minutes if they can? So NBC gave in, as did ABC and CBS, and it
probably cut down the number of delays of "Nightline" and Letterman.
 
I believe KTVU (Fox in San Francisco) often goes over 5 or 10 minutes when there is a lot of news - making their very popular 10 O'Clock News about 65 or 70 minutes long on some occasions. Of course, they're following it with their own Seinfeld reruns. But it must push back the rest of the night's programming, as well.
 
In the 70's and 80's, far fewer people had cable/satellite televison and Al Gore had not yet invented the internet. Therefore, they got their news from local stations and the networks. Therefore, the stations were expanding their newscasts beyond the traditional 15 minutes as people wanted more timely news. The local stations pushed for longer late newscasts; the networks seriously considered expanding the evening news to an hour. Nightline was, in fact, expanded to an hour for several years.

In 1991, the practice was institutionalized by delaying the Tonight Show by 5 minutes to 11:35pm. And the rest is history with longer and longer and longer local newscasts...
 
I don't know about anyone else but having to squirm through the repetitious "late local news" makes staying awake for The Tonight Show impossible and/or undesirable. After all, I've already seen the "early local news" during the morning show and had a repetitious replay during lunch and evening drive time. Why would I want to watch a fourth edition of The Same Old CrapTM?

Especially for Leno. ::)
 
firepoint525 said:
As recently as 2000, channel 4 here in Nashville used to let their newscast run long, and joined Leno late! ::)
Click to expand...

That seems incredibly stupid on the station's part as a significant number of Leno viewers stay just long enough for his monologue. Cutting in late by more than a minute or two would mean missing part of that monologue.
 
easttxtv said:
AKA said:
Was Johnny upset by this move [...] ?
Click to expand...

I read somewhere ("The Late Shift", an article, something) that Carson was quite upset at first. I don't know if he calmed down quickly or it took him a while.
Click to expand...

Why would Carson care? Wasn't The Tonight Show taped earlier in the day as it is today? Carson was a one-man band in his heyday. He really had no real competition.
 
easttxtv said:
AKA said:
Was Johnny upset by this move [...] ?
Click to expand...

I read somewhere ("The Late Shift", an article, something) that Carson was quite upset at first. I don't know if he calmed down quickly or it took him a while.
Click to expand...
...I recall one of his later monologues which was delivered during one of the affiliate convention weeks; apparently, many of the station reps were in the audience on this particular night and Carson purposely started taping after a five-minute delay of some sort. The first gag was to point out the station reps in the audience and the delay, after which Carson asked the reps, "So, how do you like being pushed back five minutes?" ;D ...
 
Bill Carter's excellent aforementioned book The Late Shift gives the explanation for the later start times - it was initially due to news updates during the Gulf War in 1991. After that, like a previous poster stated, the affiliates realized they could slip in more commercials in those five minutes.
 
Although the practice of expanded late local news seems to
have taken off in the '70s in the Central and Mountain time
zones, and the '80s in the Eastern and Pacific time zones,
WCCO was carrying 45 minutes back when Merv Griffin was
on CBS (1969-72) and had special dispensation from CBS to
delay him 15 minutes.

It would have been in that era that WAPI (WVTM) Birmingham
became a fulltime NBC affiliate and got permission to delay Carson
to 11:30 (CT). That, however, was not because of an expanded
local newscast; the station wanted the 10-11 hour for syndicated
shows and ran its local news at 11 instead of 10.

I do remember, when I lived in Dallas in the late '70s, that WFAA's
10 PM news didn't always end at 10:30; I have seen it go as long
as 10 extra minutes, especially if there was some breaking story
(usually weather-related). But that would not have affected ABC's
programming; the station aired a movie before running ABC's lineup
of crime shows and old movies-of-the-week on delay. By the '80s
they, too, had gone to 35 minutes and delayed "Nightline" to 11:05.
 
I noticed even on the 11pm Weekend News KGO-TV would still go up to 11:35 and then by 11:35 syndicated programming or infomercials will take over from there. I know as of 2011-2012 KGO even made the 11pm weekend newscast go up to 1 hour but the second half is more on features and sports.
 
firepoint525 said:
As recently as 2000, channel 4 here in Nashville used to let their newscast run long, and joined Leno late! ::)
Click to expand...

2000 is so 20th century... :p
 
KIRO 7 here in Seattle, I'm not sure if they still do it, but a few months ago I remember the Sunday night newscast went from 11-12AM. Never stopped at 11:35.

-crainbebo
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom