Why Are there so many stations in New York Playing the same Music ?

[xmradiopro]

I realize the AC stations here in New York are doing very well but was wondering are the following stations of WPLJ 95.5 FM, WXRK- 92.5 Now FM, WHTZ-100, WKTU really needed to play the same music on all stations ? There are room for other types of stations here like Soft Rock, Country, Oldies, etc.

 

[TheBigA]

Because they're hits. The hits are hits. It sounds stupid but there are really only a small number of songs people want to hear. And these days, a lot of artists are making music that cross basic radio formatic lines. Artists want to reach the maximum number of people possible, regardless of format. So if Kid Rock can have a song like "All Summer Long" or Lady Antebellum can have a song like "Need You Now" that crosses formatic lines, they can sell a whole lot more records. Of course radio doesn't care about record sales, but if they can see their target audience responds to music from other genres, then it behooves them to play it. I watch charts like BigChampagne and it's obvious that there are a handful of artists and songs that are moving the meters right now. And radio should play what the people want to hear. Do you want 100% of a small niche, or do you want 10% of a huge mass? It seems a lot of stations want the latter.

 

[xmradiopro]

I see...that would explain it but I still think there's room for one of the stations to change format...

 

[XCountry285]

one station to change formats? either KTU or Now. KTU is playing too much of what Z plays. They should go rock.

 

[atlantaboy]

one station to change formats? either KTU or Now. KTU is playing too much of what Z plays. They should go rock.

You gotta look up the ratings, man - KTU is doing really well - Now is the station that could flip, but it looks like they're going after Hot 97 with a very Rhythmic/Hip-Hop playlist

BTW I definitely wouldn't say WPLJ is playing the same music as Z100, Now, and KTU

 

[radiolives]

one station to change formats? either KTU or Now. KTU is playing too much of what Z plays. They should go rock.

You gotta look up the ratings, man - KTU is doing really well - Now is the station that could flip, but it looks like they're going after Hot 97 with a very Rhythmic/Hip-Hop playlist

BTW I definitely wouldn't say WPLJ is playing the same music as Z100, Now, and KTU

I'd flip KTU back to how the station used to sound. And less sounding just like 92.3 Now and z100.

 

[atlantaboy]

Guys, KTU is up 4.3-4.7, making it fourth in the entire market - why should they change what they're playing?

 

[Rjs725]

Well lets see here... Each station is owned by a different company. We have Clear Channel,CBS,Citadel.... Since we are talking about the #1 spot for radio(New york) of coarse each company is going to want a station that plays all the hits. In radio its all a competition when it comes to the seperate companies. Thats why stations like 923 now want listeners to "make the switch" from z100. Z100 is clear channel and 923 is CBS.

103.5 KTU The beat and Z100 may both be Clear channel stations but the difference is 103.5 will play hits from the past more often than a station like z100. So people who like a mix of old and new should listen to the beat.

In sum it up, the only reason for the stations playing the same music is competition between radio companies. Each company wants its own hit station in highly populated areas.

 

[oldies76]

Because they're hits. The hits are hits. It sounds stupid but there are really only a small number of songs people want to hear.

Many of us have been in the same argument many times before and many times today, but the phrase that only a small number of songs, people want to hear today is only what radio says and described as accurate based on tests performed on a select few.

Many people are tired of the short playlists, the daily repetition and just the limited presentation of radio today. And this growing trend of dissatisfaction with what's on some classic hits stations and other formats proves that listeners have their favorite songs and are not hearing most of them on radio. Who says that a 400-600 song rotation must be liked by everyone, including its listeners? Yes, most songs are widely accepted....but how many times have I heard that "Why isn't this or that ever played anymore...?" or better yet..."The radio stations in my town are the worst..they never play what I like."

It's far, far more common than we think. And you're 100% right BigA....it sounds stupid.

 

[TheBigA]

Many people are tired of the short playlists, the daily repetition and just the limited presentation of radio today. And this growing trend of dissatisfaction with what's on some classic hits stations and other formats proves that listeners have their favorite songs and are not hearing most of them on radio.

Yet the stations mentioned are the ones "most people" listen to. And the reason most people listen is because of the music they play. No one is being forced to listen to anything.

 

[SmashTim]

I see...that would explain it but I still think there's room for one of the stations to change format...

PLJ may have a few songs in common with the others, but not much. KTU isn't as current based as the others, both Z & KTU do very well so they aren't going to change. 92.3 NOW is doing decent, but they have the best ratings the frequency has seen since Stern left, and if you take mornings out of the picture its probably the best the frequency has done in 20 years (K-Rock's numbers were heavily inflated by Stern, they very rarely got past mid 2's outside of morning drive)

Quite simply there is no reason to change any of those stations. Part of the problem NYC has is too many frequencies that should be on the non-comm side of the dial (WFME & WBAI for starters)

 

[davideduardo]

Many people are tired of the short playlists, the daily repetition and just the limited presentation of radio today. And this growing trend of dissatisfaction with what's on some classic hits stations and other formats proves that listeners have their favorite songs and are not hearing most of them on radio. Who says that a 400-600 song rotation must be liked by everyone, including its listeners? Yes, most songs are widely accepted....but how many times have I heard that "Why isn't this or that ever played anymore...?" or better yet..."The radio stations in my town are the worst..they never play what I like."

You have convinced yourself that certain things are true basing the conclusion on facts that do not stand up to scrutiny.

Different formats have different library sizes. A CHR may be around 100 songs, and a classic hits station may play around 800 songs (speaking of regular rotations). Country is around 600 to 700, AC in the 400 to 450 range in many cases.

Do the math on classic hits. The average listener spends around 12 hours a week listening to radio in the PPM methodology. The average listener to a particular station runs in the 3 to 4 hour range, because people use multiple stations. Even a first-choice CBS-FM listener is there about 8 hours a week. So with an 800 song playlist, the average listener will not hear repetition for perhaps 3 or 4 weeks and the heavy listener will go 10 days to two weeks, since people are creatures of habit and the math of rotation just works that way.

If I only listen a few hours a week, and I tune in and hear very secondary or obscure songs, I'm gone. "I" of course means each individual listener. Stations that try longer lists learn that time spent listening declines. In fact, the CHR stations can often have time spent listening that is quite comparable to that of stations with 5 to 10 times the number of songs on their list.

Each format has a range of "sweet spots" around the country, and deviating from that range tends to produce disaster.

Of course, you insist that everyone plays 400 songs, yet I have never seen any evidence from you as to which stations in what format you used to form that conclusion. Let's have from you evidence... MediaBase, BDS, etc., numbers of songs in non-niche dayparts for specific stations in a variety of formats. And how about showing all the stations that have increased listening by increasing the playlist size.

Tag. You're it.

 

[atlantaboy]

I've always had this feeling that a lot of NYC stations have "tight" playlists because such a low percentage of their listeners commute to work by car, so the average listener only tunes in for brief periods of time every day (whereas stations like PLJ can have a broader playlist, because it more heavily targets suburbanites who do commute to work)

Not sure how true this is though - I guess you guys would know better than I would

 

[oldies76]

Of course, you insist that everyone plays 400 songs, yet I have never seen any evidence from you as to which stations in what format you used to form that conclusion.

"400" is an estimated number that was a "ballpark figure" brought up in similiar discussions in previous posts dating back a few years. Stations with very tight playlists were always thought as having far less songs in rotation, while others had more. As a rule, CBS-FM has a smaller frequency of repeated songs (which in turn provides opportunity to play more cuts during regular times) than most other classic hits stations. Stations like CBS-FM with its wide selection of songs, can have up to 800-1000 or more "available" songs easily, but others with extremely tight and repetitive rotations will have far less.

 

[frozenfiresb]

I'd like a station that could regularly go 24 hours without repeating a song.

 

[TheBigA]

I'd like a station that could regularly go 24 hours without repeating a song.

No one listens for 24 hours, so it wouldn't matter. It's like a tree falling in a forest. I often hear from listeners who say they never hear a certain song. When I show them the music log where we played the song they wanted at a certain time, they say, "Oh I wasn't listening then." We live in an on-demand world. People want to hear what they want when they want. So less repetition means it's less likely a person will be able to hear the song they want, because they're not listening 24/7.

 

[oldies76]

I often hear from listeners who say they never hear a certain song. When I show them the music log where we played the song they wanted at a certain time, they say, "Oh I wasn't listening then."

True, but that does not apply to songs that the station doesn't play anyways, but may be a song that is liked by someone, but is never heard even during a 24 hour or weekly song cycle.

 

[TheBigA]

True, but that does not apply to songs that the station doesn't play anyways, but may be a song that is liked by someone, but is never heard even during a 24 hour or weekly song cycle.

And as I've often said, radio is a mass medium. It doesn't program to individuals. The few songs that appeal to specific individuals are best heard via personal music players. Those songs are easily obtainable and not exclusive to radio stations. The songs that mass groups agree on are what radio plays.

 

[atlantaboy]

True, but that does not apply to songs that the station doesn't play anyways, but may be a song that is liked by someone, but is never heard even during a 24 hour or weekly song cycle.

And as I've often said, radio is a mass medium. It doesn't program to individuals. The few songs that appeal to specific individuals are best heard via personal music players. Those songs are easily obtainable and not exclusive to radio stations. The songs that mass groups agree on are what radio plays.

I think it depends on the length of time your average listener spends listening to the station - stations that are left on all day at work usually have better ratings with broader playlists - same with more rural stations where people have less to do and leave the radio on for longer periods of time - and same with certain formats like AAA and Alternative that people tend to leave on "in the background" for long periods of time

But for a large-metro CHR or Rhythmic, you want to make sure you're playing the biggest hits for the brief periods of time that people tune in each day

 

[ansky212]

Ironically, I have practically stopped listening to NY radio altogether for this reason alone. Every song on every station has some "rhythmic" feel to it. I even tuned to Lite FM last week and heard some song that I would have expected on KTU. It's just a matter of time before Q104 starts mixing in a dance beat to "Horse with no Name".