Why Bonneville won't give up on 97.3

[searadiofreak]

I'm certainly not privy on upper management meetings within Bonneville. However, I can assume there are discussions revolving around the success of this:

http://www.radio-info.com/news/dc-all-newser-wtop-is-radios-top-biller-for-2010-biakelsey

 

[radioguy123]

Not to mention both KIRO-FM and KOMO-AM are having very nice ratings weeklies as well. Both in the top three 6+ with some nice demos. Both are in the top five in revenue for Seattle too. Ratings plus a lot more inventory than music stations is good "news" for these two stations. Bonneville is not changing a thing. Still think they could have done the same on AM, plus kept KBSG ratings and revenue as well. Didn't need to go to FM as we see in NYC with WINS and in Seattle with KOMO to keep revenue.

 

[radioguy39nj]

The success of WTOP in DC shows what's possible for news/talk on FM. DC is the #9 market and WTOP is the highest billing station in the country. At $57MM, WTOP is $8MM ahead of WCBS-AM in NY and $16MM ahead of WINS NY. Could WCBS or WINS bill more if one of them were simulcast on FM? They probably could!

While $49MM for WCBS and $41MM for WINS is nothing to sneeze at, it does nothing to change the fact that the future for news/talk is on FM.

 

[radioguy123]

Still think Bonneville should have kept KBSG. Using your New York example they would had the 41 million from WINZ and the 28 million from WCBS-FM. Well ahead of WTOP AM/FM.

IN Seattle, KIRO FM might bill 10 million this year. As an AM/FM combo maybe 12.
If they had kept KBSG, the KIRO AM News Talk would still bill around 10, but KBSG would also bill close to ten as a top music station. 20 million as a two format combo, or 12 million as an FM and another 3 million with AM Sports. Doesn't pencil.

Too late now. KIRO FM is doing fine and their is no going back. The AM KIRO joins KTTH, KVI, KPTK, KIXI and a host of others billing under three million. I would bet KVI and KIXI actually generate more profit because they have low cost of operation. Guess that is the name of the game.

 

[equalinercard]

A lot of people are focused on the wrong angle of the WTOP story. It is very impressive. But there are some things that need to be remembered.

WTOP switched to FM because their signal at 1500 on the AM dial, even though it was 50,000 watts, was a bad signal for covering the sprawling DC metro. It was great is some areas, but unlistenable in others. That's why they switched to FM. But WTOP has been the top biller in DC for two decades, even when they were on AM.

WTOP also did a simulcast, AM & FM, for a several books (Diary, not PPM) so they could gauge the success of the FM before ending the simulcast on AM.

WTOP also has very little true competition. WMAL is their only real commercial competitor and that station has gone through so many changes in just the past 5 years it's laughable.

The Bonneville brass made, IMO, the mistake of applying the WTOP plan to both Phoenix and Seattle. But the difference is KTAR and KIRO are both blowtorch AM signals with excellent coverage of their metros. And sadly, both KTAR-AM and KIRO-AM are now middling sports stations in the bottom half of ratings and billing in their markets. And both, ironically, have enormous payrolls and expenses.

Unfortunately, we'll never know how well the old KIRO-AM or the old KTAR-AM would have done in PPM. We know that both used to rule the ratings and in some markets those kinds of AM stations are doing very, very well in PPM. We'll also never know if the old KBSG-FM would have been a ratings powerhouse in Seattle. We do know that similar formats are at or near the top in a number of markets with low expenses and enormous revenue.

While many people are praising Bonneville and other companies for switching to FM. There are some, myself included, who feel that these moves are not so wise and don't apply in all situations.

Remember, in the list of the top 10 billing stations in the U.S, 5 of the top 10 are AM stations.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

Am thinking it was 'TOP (may have been the competitor) that, at the very beginning of streaming, launched an online sub-station JUST for the DC "insiders". Thought that was one of the most innovative and brave ideas for its time. Basically water cooler for gov't types that would be "too inside" for their on-air content.

 

[radioguy39nj]

A lot of people are focused on the wrong angle of the WTOP story. It is very impressive. But there are some things that need to be remembered.

WTOP switched to FM because their signal at 1500 on the AM dial, even though it was 50,000 watts, was a bad signal for covering the sprawling DC metro. It was great is some areas, but unlistenable in others. That's why they switched to FM. But WTOP has been the top biller in DC for two decades, even when they were on AM.

WTOP also did a simulcast, AM & FM, for a several books (Diary, not PPM) so they could gauge the success of the FM before ending the simulcast on AM.

WTOP also has very little true competition. WMAL is their only real commercial competitor and that station has gone through so many changes in just the past 5 years it's laughable.

The Bonneville brass made, IMO, the mistake of applying the WTOP plan to both Phoenix and Seattle. But the difference is KTAR and KIRO are both blowtorch AM signals with excellent coverage of their metros. And sadly, both KTAR-AM and KIRO-AM are now middling sports stations in the bottom half of ratings and billing in their markets. And both, ironically, have enormous payrolls and expenses.

Unfortunately, we'll never know how well the old KIRO-AM or the old KTAR-AM would have done in PPM. We know that both used to rule the ratings and in some markets those kinds of AM stations are doing very, very well in PPM. We'll also never know if the old KBSG-FM would have been a ratings powerhouse in Seattle. We do know that similar formats are at or near the top in a number of markets with low expenses and enormous revenue.

While many people are praising Bonneville and other companies for switching to FM. There are some, myself included, who feel that these moves are not so wise and don't apply in all situations.

Remember, in the list of the top 10 billing stations in the U.S, 5 of the top 10 are AM stations.

At night, WTOP at 1500 AM can be received all the way up into NYC and New England but not in DC suburbs. The signal is beamed northeast to southwest. The move to FM was a brilliant strategy to better serve the DC market.

WTOP with it's live and local coverage trounces WMAL in drivetime every day. It's a similar situation to NY, where news stations WCBS-AM and WINS trounce WABC and WOR with their mostly syndicated talk.

IMO, Bonneville saw the future for news/talk on FM. Not only does it sound better, it was also a way to bring more 25-54 demos to the format, hence the application of the WTOP plan to KTAR and KIRO. KIRO-FM actually talks to the Seattle and Puget Sound market. NYC's major talkers, WABC and WOR, don't talk to the greater NY tri-state area. They air mostly syndicated programming. Be happy you have KIRO-FM.

Five of the top 10 billing stations may be on AM, but the fact is the desirable demos are on FM. Most of those AMs, even those with 50 kW blowtorches in NY, LA and Chicago will likely need to eventually simulcast or migrate to FM in order to grow the all-important 25-54 demo.

 

[TVradioguru]

Remember, in the list of the top 10 billing stations in the U.S, 5 of the top 10 are AM stations.

But what you're leaving out is just a few years ago, 10 of the top 10 stations in US markets were AM stations. That trend is changing fast as AM listeners age-out. As a station group, if you waited too long after having the option to move onto the FM band, you could be playing catch up and potentially left behind to die along with your AM station.

 

[radioguy39nj]

Remember, in the list of the top 10 billing stations in the U.S, 5 of the top 10 are AM stations.

But what you're leaving out is just a few years ago, 10 of the top 10 stations in US markets were AM stations. That trend is changing fast as AM listeners age-out. As a station group, if you waited too long after having the option to move onto the FM band, you could be playing catch up and potentially left behind to die along with your AM station.

Good point! Some think this is an issue only in small and medium markets that have AM signals that don't get very far out, especially at night. Not so! Big market 50 kW blowtorches are going to have to face the issue of their audience aging out as well.

Not all AM stations, even big market 50 kW blowtorches, have the option of moving to FM. What could become of those AM stations? ???

 

[equalinercard]

Remember, in the list of the top 10 billing stations in the U.S, 5 of the top 10 are AM stations.

But what you're leaving out is just a few years ago, 10 of the top 10 stations in US markets were AM stations. That trend is changing fast as AM listeners age-out. As a station group, if you waited too long after having the option to move onto the FM band, you could be playing catch up and potentially left behind to die along with your AM station.

I don't follow what you mean by "10 of the top 10 stations in US markets were AM." I don't know of any market in the US where the top 10 stations have been AM for at least 20 years, or longer.

And say what you will about ratings, but the fact that half of the top 10 billing stations in the country are still AM stations is proof that if you do it right you can still make money, big money, on AM.

Part of what I'm suggesting is the fact that every time Bonneville moves a heritage station off of a great AM signal like KTAR or KIRO they are, in fact, diminishing the entire AM band. The growing lack of quality programming on AM is part of the reason for AM's decline. Ironic, if you ask me.

 

[semoochie]

We have an apples and oranges situation here. The poster indicated that of the top ten billing stations in America, 5 were on AM. He went on to say that it wasn't too long ago that ten of the top ten billing stations in America were on AM. That's true. It's been awhile but it's true. Between the big All News, News/Talk and Full Service/ACs/MORs, there was enough business to make this exclusively an AM only club.

 

[TVradioguru]

But I believe we would all agree that is no longer the case. In all major markets, the number of top AM station in revenue or ratings have declined significantly. And no, it isn't merely because of the "quality" of the programming, but numerous factors that have been discussed here many times before. FM radio listening is growing quickly, where AM is going the opposite direction as the audience familiar with AM, ages out.

Most AM station owners are scrambling to determine how they can move to FM while the value of their long-standing AM properties continue to tank. Waiting around to make the move will have severe business consequences in the long term.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

So are we approaching a day when we'll have a "radio" band and that's it? Whether that means FM survives solo ... or perhaps a complete technology shift to digital (as was mandated for TV?). Maybe in the big scheme an AM band is not that expensive from the standpoint of spectrum ... but it DOES seem that spectrum space is in demand and some usage shifts could be in the cards.

it seems the "shift to digital" concept would create and solve several problems at the same time ... one of which being a level playing field for listening (don't have to search all over for a format -- everything is right there with everything else). At the same time I'm not familiar with the quality of TV coverage on digital (is it open to similar issues that plague AM & FM drawbacks) -- though in TV's case it is negated by retransmission on cable & direct satellite systems for most of the audience.

I would assume by the end of this decade this could be a very real issue.

 

[USA Radio Expert]

It's worth noting that the WTOP product is actually THREE FM's: 103.5, 103.9 and 107.7


There are a number of reasons that Bonneville migrated WTOP from 1500 to FM:

70% of 25-54's never even cume ANY station on the AM band. They don't even know it's there. Moving to FM gave them access to an enormous audience coveted by advertisers.

Better building penetration. There's very little AM usage in steel buildings.

There was some concern a competitor was about to launch a spoken word format on FM.

A better listening experience on FM for the daily captives of DC traffic. Big TSL in those cars!

The AM band itself is nearly unlistenable. There is so many other sources of interference these days from all of our devices, building alarm systems, etc. I'm no engineer but in a wireless world, it would seem logical that the amount of data flying through our airwaves would have an adverse effect on them.

Still, vacating 1500 with the flagship format meant a better signal for WFED Federal Radio, which is a rich financial success for the company.

Looking a bit farther into the future, the appeal of a format that presents no exposure to music airplay royalties seems like a good move.

And in reality, the migration from FM to dot com has already begun. Every tagline of every element contains WTOP dot com branding and the day when the local DC frequency is no longer mentioned regularly (and when mentioned, is only heard on the FM) is coming.

The real meaning of Market #9's WTOP's status as the #1 billing position in American radio is yet to be revealed. It will manifest itself in format changes in the Top 8 markets, (every one of them with management teams that are embarrassed they were beaten by a smaller market)...specifically New York, L.A. and Chicago where there is still no major N/T or Sports station on FM. WTOP's ability to extract 22% of its market's total revenue has gotten the attention of the Clear Channel and CBS execs who would like to do the same in markets that are larger by hundreds of millions of dollars. We will see the deaths of some heretofore "bulletproof" music stations very soon.

 

[TVradioguru]

So are we approaching a day when we'll have a "radio" band and that's it? Whether that means FM survives solo ... or perhaps a complete technology shift to digital (as was mandated for TV?). Maybe in the big scheme an AM band is not that expensive from the standpoint of spectrum ... but it DOES seem that spectrum space is in demand and some usage shifts could be in the cards.

I'm not clear as to why, but engineers have told me that the AM band is completely useless to anything but what it's being used for, sort of taking stations to all digital. The digital-hybrid thing with HD radio has been tried by some but found poor or mixed results. If you go to the HD radio board on this site and even bring up the topic of moving AM to digital, the group of curmudgeons will attack you and your opinion, for some reason believing that AM is fine the way it is. This small group of individuals clearly live in the past and will die with the medium one day.

I would assume by the end of this decade this could be a very real issue.

I'm not sure what sort on an issue this would be. Now with so many choices on how to consume media today, why wouldn't the model of a single band for "radio" be a viable option? Those smart and fortunate enough to own an FM license would benefit from less radio-competition, the congestion issues would be reduced, and advertisers would be able to better focus their advertising needs with fewer stations.

 

[radioguy39nj]

The real meaning of Market #9's WTOP's status as the #1 billing position in American radio is yet to be revealed. It will manifest itself in format changes in the Top 8 markets, (every one of them with management teams that are embarrassed they were beaten by a smaller market)...specifically New York, L.A. and Chicago where there is still no major N/T or Sports station on FM. WTOP's ability to extract 22% of its market's total revenue has gotten the attention of the Clear Channel and CBS execs who would like to do the same in markets that are larger by hundreds of millions of dollars. We will see the deaths of some heretofore "bulletproof" music stations very soon.

No doubt CBS and CC in New York are looking at WTOP's success on FM in DC with envy. Right now, CBS' and CC's music stations in NY are doing well and aren't candidates for a flip. The issue is that there's nowhere on the NY FM dial to put a spoken word format.

The one slot in NY where IMHO CBS won't put a news/talk or sports format is 101.1 and not because classic hits has such a great future. CBS-FM is short-spaced with WBEB Philadelphia at 101.1 and has twice the power of CBS-FM. WBEB cuts in on CBS-FM in several NJ counties that are part of the NY radio market. 92.3 and 102.7 have far better signals in Northern and Central NJ.