Why bother with HD?

[JH_Radio]

Reading the thread on the New Jersey board about WPRB going HD prompted me to write this, but I thought it would go better on this board so put it here instead.
I recently replaced the stereo in my mom's older car. the radio is a pioneer HD radio. The one stationn she likes WKVP isn't in HD, and signal weak, so she just listens to CD's. She's not exactly into tech, so the CD is a huge jump for her. I've played with the tuner in the car myself, and i dont see the need for an HD tuner. Satelite i can see, as there are different formats not available on FM and it is camercial free for the most part. The audio quolety leaves a lot to be desired on satelite IMO, but at least there is something that goes into programming. Since a lot of the HD signals are either repeats of anolog AM stations,or jockless music formats, i see no need for them. At leats satelite most have some sort of DJ, even if it is voicetracked. If i want a non DJ option, why not just use my own CD's, stream internet radio? No need to get an HD tunerIMO, and if it hadn't been for replacing my mom's stereo, there wouldn't be HD radio in her car. Oh yeah, did i mention that a lot of the HD signals you can listen to online also? If there were local DJ's, or at least voicetracked ones, then i would consider it for the home. I just dont see the reason to bother with HD. a better AM signal for talk? nah. HD 2's and 3's that simmocast AM's already available, or music formats without DJ's just doesn't do it for me.
I love radio, but I have my own idea as a listener what radio should be and HD isn't it.
Perhaps those of you who have HD radio's might have a reason for owning one. Short of the fact its radio (and that's what we're all here for), why would you bother? Please someone explain this to me.
Great DX device? I already got that on an anolog radio.
AM Stereo? got that on an anolog radio too (not that the one station that is in AM Stereo i listen to anyway.)
AM can be really crappy, and FM can have its own issues, but you can get streaming (HD main's, 2's or 3's) online, so even bying an HD radio for new stations is pointless.

 

[tomservo]

I dunno about the formats being repetitive, I am hearing stuff on HD-2s that doesn't exist on analog radio. And the big thing now is putting those HD-2s on translators, which has served to let corporate radio get around ownership caps and bring more formats to a general audience.

So considering that, yeah there's no real point to own an HD radio at this point.

 

[KB1OKL]

I bought one several years ago mainly out of curiosity. I bought the Sony tuner and it wasn't very expensive and it was supposed to be the best reasonably priced HD tuner. Am was and is completely useless, FM range issues and the fact that I didn't hear much of a difference between analog and digital (on a very good system) plus the inane secondary channels caused me to put it away shortly after I bought it.
It is a more of a nuisance than anything else and should have been shut off years ago.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I bought one several years ago mainly out of curiosity. I bought the Sony tuner and it wasn't very expensive and it was supposed to be the best reasonably priced HD tuner. Am was and is completely useless, FM range issues and the fact that I didn't hear much of a difference between analog and digital (on a very good system) plus the inane secondary channels caused me to put it away shortly after I bought it.
It is a more of a nuisance than anything else and should have been shut off years ago.

The Sony HD tuner is one of the best DX tuners ever made, I've been blown away by its capabilities. 200 mile reception with nothing but a dipole, hook up an outdoor antenna and distant stations come in like locals. To soup up AM on these modern tuners with the little plastic loops, take two yardsticks and make an"X" frame, run a single turn of wire around the frame - hook that to the radio - a get ready for a lot of fun DX'ing AM!

 

[BRNout]

I dunno about the formats being repetitive, I am hearing stuff on HD-2s that doesn't exist on analog radio. And the big thing now is putting those HD-2s on translators, which has served to let corporate radio get around ownership caps and bring more formats to a general audience.

So considering that, yeah there's no real point to own an HD radio at this point.

An awful lot of HD-2s are merely extensions of the primary's format. In that way, they seem 'redundant'. Sure, if you're an aficionado of the main format, you may like it. But, if you're looking for variety, you're not happy. Also, it seems that the largest markets have more of this than mid-sized markets do. For example, I find more interesting HD-2 formats on Milwaukee FMs than on Chicago FMs.

In Milwaukee, local HD-2s include such formats as comedy, blues, urban/AC and legitimate 50s/60s oldies. More of the Chicago FMs either extend the main format or they stick one of their AMs on there. There are Humidesi and The Mormon Channel, which are different, i guess. Anyhow, there's nothing I care to hear on the Chicago HDs, while there are at least 3 in MKE that are worth tuning in to.

Take a market like Boston, which has relatively few FM signals available and even fewer unique formats: you'd think that HD-2 would be the answer to the prayers of many who are tired of the same stuff. But no, the HD-2s there are basically more of the same. No urban, no 'real' oldies, no to a lot of potential formats. Opportunity lost......

 

[ddsparxx]

I have one FM station in my area that has IBOC on but does not offer any HD subchannels. What's the point on having IBOC on when the station doesn't have at least one HD subchannels?

About the Sony tuner, rbrucecarter is right about it. Its adjacent channel selectivity is probably better than the most expensive Magnum Dynalab tuner. (MD-109 these days?)

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I have one FM station in my area that has IBOC on but does not offer any HD subchannels. What's the point on having IBOC on when the station doesn't have at least one HD subchannels?

There is a dramatic improvement in sound quality, provided that the station doesn't run HD-2. But you need a really good stereo system to notice the improvement.

 

[ddsparxx]

That probably makes sense. It's a hip-hop station, the kind of music I don't listen to. Sorry.

 

[SirRoxalot]

I have one FM station in my area that has IBOC on but does not offer any HD subchannels. What's the point on having IBOC on when the station doesn't have at least one HD subchannels?

There is a dramatic improvement in sound quality, provided that the station doesn't run HD-2. But you need a really good stereo system to notice the improvement.

"Dramatic"? Really? Sounds like a difference in processing, or maybe the tuner. Most of the FM HD I've heard has sounded worse.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

"Dramatic"? Really? Sounds like a difference in processing, or maybe the tuner. Most of the FM HD I've heard has sounded worse.

Noise floor drops, the stations I listen to the processing is out, causing the audio to be more pure. Lower bass, not rolled off under 50 Hz, etc. HD-1 is a good thing for audio purity. But it should have been placed within the existing channel, not outside. A lot of the coverage problems, I believe, is because the tuner is working harder to receive a wider bandwidth, and the gain / bandwidth product reduces the sensitivity.

 

[KB1OKL]

I bought one several years ago mainly out of curiosity. I bought the Sony tuner and it wasn't very expensive and it was supposed to be the best reasonably priced HD tuner. Am was and is completely useless, FM range issues and the fact that I didn't hear much of a difference between analog and digital (on a very good system) plus the inane secondary channels caused me to put it away shortly after I bought it.
It is a more of a nuisance than anything else and should have been shut off years ago.

The Sony HD tuner is one of the best DX tuners ever made, I've been blown away by its capabilities. 200 mile reception with nothing but a dipole, hook up an outdoor antenna and distant stations come in like locals. To soup up AM on these modern tuners with the little plastic loops, take two yardsticks and make an"X" frame, run a single turn of wire around the frame - hook that to the radio - a get ready for a lot of fun DX'ing AM!

Thanks but I don't DX FM although I may someday after FM HD is history and I have AM receivers that are way better than the Sony is on AM. I haven't powered up the Sony in over 2 years.

 

[tomservo]

An awful lot of HD-2s are merely extensions of the primary's format. In that way, they seem 'redundant'. Sure, if you're an aficionado of the main format, you may like it. But, if you're looking for variety, you're not happy. Also, it seems that the largest markets have more of this than mid-sized markets do. For example, I find more interesting HD-2 formats on Milwaukee FMs than on Chicago FMs.

That very well could be — I'm in a relatively small market, and the more impressive markets have been mid-sized like Birmingham and St. Louis. Odd then that there would be more variety where there's less audience to support it!

That probably makes sense. It's a hip-hop station, the kind of music I don't listen to. Sorry.

We have/had three HD stations in the Mobile market, all Cumulus owned, with no subchannels. One is hip-hop. I don't like the format either but have listened to compare and it's noticeably better in HD than analog, for all the reasons rbrucecarter5 noted. It must be the style of music or something because on the other HDs (a Jack FM and a Journey, both rock/pop oriented) the difference is a little less obvious but still better. Jack FM's HD has been off now for a while, though.

 

[DaveBayArea]

Noise floor drops, the stations I listen to the processing is out, causing the audio to be more pure. Lower bass, not rolled off under 50 Hz, etc. HD-1 is a good thing for audio purity. But it should have been placed within the existing channel, not outside. A lot of the coverage problems, I believe, is because the tuner is working harder to receive a wider bandwidth, and the gain / bandwidth product reduces the sensitivity.

Unfortunately, in our area it seems like there's an effort on the part of broadcasters to make the HD-1 signal sound as close as possible to their overly-processed analog. So there's never enough dynamic range to even hear the better noise floor, and the compression artifacts stick out like a sore thumb (how do you accurately encode clipping)? I've also noticed that HD stations with no adjacent channels in the area have decent HD coverage - well beyond their protected contours. Could it be that HD stations suffer from analog interference in much the same way that analog stations suffer from HD interference? That's what I've always thought.

Dave B.

 

[Barry]

I have been enjoying country music on WLTW HD2, in the New York City area.
In most of the U.S. it would seem redundant to put a contemporary country format on HD. But in much of the New York metro, if country music can be heard at all, the signal is weak, from one of several rather distant suburban stations. The city itself has not had a country station on regular FM/AM in over a decade.
WLTW HD2 has a surprisingly strong signal that reaches well into neighboring NJ and CT. It carries the Country Road format from IHeartRadio, so there are dj's, and no commercials.

 

[spunker88]

I bought one several years ago mainly out of curiosity. I bought the Sony tuner and it wasn't very expensive and it was supposed to be the best reasonably priced HD tuner. Am was and is completely useless, FM range issues and the fact that I didn't hear much of a difference between analog and digital (on a very good system) plus the inane secondary channels caused me to put it away shortly after I bought it.
It is a more of a nuisance than anything else and should have been shut off years ago.

If your talking about the XDR-F1HD it is one of the best analog tuners out there, thats why all of us DXers own them. It performs well on AM if you upgrade the antenna. I added a tunable loop antenna that is about a foot in diameter. I was able to pull in 750 RCR out of Venezuela on it. Granted I live in a rural area that is free of AM noise, but I wouldn't underestimate the power of the AM portion of the XDR-F1HD.

If you aren't into DXing, you could sell the radio on ebay and make a profit. Its crazy what these tuners are going for on ebay. Used tuners are going for around $200. I would have stocked up if I knew I could make this much money on them, considering they were under $100 new before they got discontinued.

 

[ddsparxx]

I have used a homebrew 2 foot loop with 3 turns of wire and no tuning capacitor on the XDR-F1HD and have gotten good results with it, including the 650 in Colombia at night.

 

[JH_Radio]

I've heard that the Sony tuner does just as well as the Yamaha T-85 with modified filters.
I love my T-85. I considered purchaseing the Sony tuner when i first heard it was out a few years back, but didn't for that reason. Is the Sony tuner that much better?
I have an outdoor antenna here, just outside of Philly I can get some Atlantic city, the two willmington's, Allentown, trenton and Toms River Ocean County area. This is day time listening no DX. My AM tuner is the AMX-2000.

 

[kc1ih]

Take a market like Boston, which has relatively few FM signals available and even fewer unique formats: you'd think that HD-2 would be the answer to the prayers of many who are tired of the same stuff.  But no, the HD-2s there are basically more of the same.  No urban, no 'real' oldies, no to a lot of potential formats.  Opportunity lost......

In Boston there’s an HD-2 airing Celtic music, another airing Blues, and another airing music from Broadway musicals.  Those are all formats you won’t find on AM or FM anywhere.

And in a lot of places (but not Boston) you can find BBC World Service 24/7 on an HD-2 or HD-3 station.

 

[Mainedude2007]

In Boston there’s an HD-2 airing Celtic music, another airing Blues, and another airing music from Broadway musicals. Those are all formats you won’t find on AM or FM anywhere.

And in a lot of places (but not Boston) you can find BBC World Service 24/7 on an HD-2 or HD-3 station.

Most of the HD2s and HD3s stream, and if you have a smartphone (Which 48% of cell phone users do, projected to be near 70% by the end of next year) you can download free apps like TuneIn and listen that way anywhere.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

There is a dramatic improvement in sound quality, provided that the station doesn't run HD-2. But you need a really good stereo system to notice the improvement.

In this era where the music format of choice is low sampling rate bit-compressed MP3 files listened to through ear buds, sound quality is irrelevant.