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WHY CORPORATE RADIO IS KILLING OLDIES
- Thread starter doowopvault
- Start date
The call letters of that radio station in that Three Stooges short: KGBY
doowopvault said:
About 95% of all radios stations have been owned by "corporations" for the last half a century.
I'd even bet that your local, mom and pop corner dry cleaner is owned by a corporation, too.
Wrong.
The reason "oldies" formats have transitioned to 70's based classic hits is that there is no ad revenue for oldies formats, save in isolated suburban or small market situations.
So the reason is: advertisers.
(Of course, advertisers and ad agencies are corporations, too)
Your regurgitation of the "pay for play" thing is tiring. We all know how the AG for NY was grandstanding, and how it eventually cost him his job. The fact is that here is nothing illegal about selling time to play a song as long as sponsor ID requirements are met.
Of course, today, record companies are so broke that they don't have money to buy "mini infomercials" to play new songs... instead they are attempting to kill radio via royalties, just as they are killing streaming music services.
doowopvault said:
Well, if that is the corporate methodology it has failed miserably in my personal case. I basically shut off everything after the mid-80's (about the time grunge came along) and haven't listened to "modern" popular music since. The advent of products like the Walkman and more current digital players and storage mediums like the PC make it possible for me to have my own personal radio station. I either find what I like over the 'Net or I play my own library. By pushing crap the labels cut their own throats.
landtuna said:
I totally agree--thank goodness for ipods--etc. I do miss talented DJs playing the music that I like, but for me radio is dead!
Hey gang, fear not...oldies is not dead as a format, nor as a music preference. I've been riding a good wave of 6 years now doing this 'the old fashioned way' - plenty of personality and a great mix of the music - at WINY Radio / Putnam CT on Sunday mornings. Yes, this is Bill Alley.
Following the stuff from the late 40s to the mid 70s this music is always in demand, but the truth remains a 'lock' on the industry - both music and stations - make the mistake that because something is old, it should be relegated to the dustbin. Hear the newer artists - how many (countless!) tributes are done to the likes of Buddy Holly, The Drifters, The Beatles, The Carpenters! (I can't believe one of the greatest duos of all time gets practically no airplay anymore yet COUNTLESS musicians give credit to Karen and Richard!) If the 'newbies' behind the mic pay tribute to these legends, you can bet their fans do too. I know this personally; live events has them swaying and dancing from ages 2 to 102. This music is so durable it can't be killed, and the 'true to heart' radio stations, internet and PBS are living proof (they don't produce collections of entertainment if they don't believe there's money in it - BIG money.) Lest we forget, Bowzer's get-togethers pack venues and sell out (such as the 10,000-seat Mohegan Sun casino arena in Uncasville, CT). That's not insignificant. That's PROOF.
There are top radio stations not far from here doing very well with it; not just the legendary WLNG to which we all owe so much as one of - if not THE - leading oldies and local information station in the USA. Greater Media shocked me in their doing a very fine job with WMTR-AM Morristown NJ. That station is tight, with a far deeper playlist than most stations, and they're getting plenty of attention - not to mention a 65-year birthday celebration. Great station with great stuff, and they keep things local, local, local...which seems to have widened their reach to NYC (Brooklyn, Staten Island mentioned quite a bit). These are just two of many stations I keep up with that satisfy my oldies cravings.
So not all of corporate radio has the death knell for oldies, and the best opportunity for a thriving AM stand-alone (I'm quoting from a recent article in Inside Radio) at this time are two formats: OLDIES and CLASSICAL. Two very enduring, very relevant, and very popular genres - no matter what others think or say. Talk to listeners, more loyal and more affluent than those who support other categories.
One more thing: the Classic Rock handle is actually doing a disservice to oldies as these formats tend to restrict themselves to the top Billboard-charted stuff everyone has heard incessantly. Internet radio has exploded thanks to better music, better artists (especially those locked out of American markets) and expanded libraries. I love Australia / New Zealand radio for that. Music is never tossed; it is archived. They can (and do) come up with songs American stations have relegated to the dust bin, but listeners (and advertisers, movie producers, etc.etc.) remember fondly, reviving stuff again and again. Where is American radio on this wave? Largely, if not overwhelmingly, absent. Populism caters to trends. Oldies revolutionized radio around the world thanks to the artists and the amazing talent behind every local microphone, and Radio has never recaptured that heyday. That's where the biggest shame of all is: so many mics, silenced, the talent and local flavor replaced by far-off, irrelevant voice tracks with most artists that make more tabloid tantalizing than credible, listenable, memorable tunes.
Following the stuff from the late 40s to the mid 70s this music is always in demand, but the truth remains a 'lock' on the industry - both music and stations - make the mistake that because something is old, it should be relegated to the dustbin. Hear the newer artists - how many (countless!) tributes are done to the likes of Buddy Holly, The Drifters, The Beatles, The Carpenters! (I can't believe one of the greatest duos of all time gets practically no airplay anymore yet COUNTLESS musicians give credit to Karen and Richard!) If the 'newbies' behind the mic pay tribute to these legends, you can bet their fans do too. I know this personally; live events has them swaying and dancing from ages 2 to 102. This music is so durable it can't be killed, and the 'true to heart' radio stations, internet and PBS are living proof (they don't produce collections of entertainment if they don't believe there's money in it - BIG money.) Lest we forget, Bowzer's get-togethers pack venues and sell out (such as the 10,000-seat Mohegan Sun casino arena in Uncasville, CT). That's not insignificant. That's PROOF.
There are top radio stations not far from here doing very well with it; not just the legendary WLNG to which we all owe so much as one of - if not THE - leading oldies and local information station in the USA. Greater Media shocked me in their doing a very fine job with WMTR-AM Morristown NJ. That station is tight, with a far deeper playlist than most stations, and they're getting plenty of attention - not to mention a 65-year birthday celebration. Great station with great stuff, and they keep things local, local, local...which seems to have widened their reach to NYC (Brooklyn, Staten Island mentioned quite a bit). These are just two of many stations I keep up with that satisfy my oldies cravings.
So not all of corporate radio has the death knell for oldies, and the best opportunity for a thriving AM stand-alone (I'm quoting from a recent article in Inside Radio) at this time are two formats: OLDIES and CLASSICAL. Two very enduring, very relevant, and very popular genres - no matter what others think or say. Talk to listeners, more loyal and more affluent than those who support other categories.
One more thing: the Classic Rock handle is actually doing a disservice to oldies as these formats tend to restrict themselves to the top Billboard-charted stuff everyone has heard incessantly. Internet radio has exploded thanks to better music, better artists (especially those locked out of American markets) and expanded libraries. I love Australia / New Zealand radio for that. Music is never tossed; it is archived. They can (and do) come up with songs American stations have relegated to the dust bin, but listeners (and advertisers, movie producers, etc.etc.) remember fondly, reviving stuff again and again. Where is American radio on this wave? Largely, if not overwhelmingly, absent. Populism caters to trends. Oldies revolutionized radio around the world thanks to the artists and the amazing talent behind every local microphone, and Radio has never recaptured that heyday. That's where the biggest shame of all is: so many mics, silenced, the talent and local flavor replaced by far-off, irrelevant voice tracks with most artists that make more tabloid tantalizing than credible, listenable, memorable tunes.
WLIConsulting said:
WLN....you know it, I know it, some people on the boards know it, but the people that are in love with the business of radio and are not lovers of music.....will not admit it!!! One of the 12 stations that the Doo Wop Vault is broadcasted on, "ABC Fifties Ireland" has 20.000 listeners per month, with the Doo Wop Vault in the top 5.
T
Thomps2525
Guest
Bill Alley. I'm guessing that his fans are known as Alley Cats, a term that is only slightly less trite than "Doo Wop Shoppe." But all his comments are valid. In the Los Angeles forum there is an ongoing discussion about KRTH, which has dropped almost all of the pre-1964 songs, and the growing number of stations that are dropping 1960s music completely and playing 1970s-80s-90s. Much of the debate deals with stations' refusal to play any song that hasn't received high marks in one of those fershlugginer "auditorium tests." Bill says that the older music is "so durable that it can't be killed"...but it certainly is under attack!
Check out the discussion at http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=234327.0
And in 2009 I started making a list of what is played on the aforementioned WLNG---a daunting task, to be sure! The list is at http://xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?t=99611
Check out the discussion at http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=234327.0
And in 2009 I started making a list of what is played on the aforementioned WLNG---a daunting task, to be sure! The list is at http://xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?t=99611
oldies76 said:
The fascination with WLNG and the thought that it is actually an oldies station continue to mystify me.
WLNG is in a market of 120,000 persons. It's smaller than Valdosta, GA, in fact.
What WLNG is is a terrific community station that uses music as fill between local items. It is also a perfect example of local stations in markets that don't have ratings or don't use ratings and can have formats that don't depend on "scoring" in the ratings.
But using WLNG as an example of what a station in a major market should be is quite absurd.
doowopvault said:
The "business" of radio is to make money. We generally do that by doing something on the air that lots of people like and then selling those "ears" we get to advertisers. If we don't attract listeners, we don't make money. If we don't make money, the station is sold or changes format.
It's not essential to "love" the music. It is essential to do something that a bunch of listeners love.
And... ABC Fifties Ireland is a stream, not really a "radio station" in the terms we are discussing. And 20,000 monthly cume means the average quarter hour listening is around 100 persons or so. When we compare that with the AQH of CBS-FM at 90,000, we see that your endeavor is very specialized and occupies a small niche and shouldn't be compared with the programming of stations that have to "earn their keep" with good ratings.
DavidEduardo said:
WRONG...DAVID!!! Good business is to play something for everyone!!! which radio isn't doing. As far as your comment of "100 people an hour" again....WRONG!!! the station e-mailed me the stats, the Doo Wop Vault had, on Sunday, over 2,300 listeners on Sunday from 10:00am to 12:00pm. As far as your comment of "not really being a radio station" they run a low power FM transmitter with a stream. But let's go back to your uninformed comment about stations having to "earn their keep", my response is.......I refer back to WLN's comment of all the stations that ARE EARNING THEIR KEEP by playing real oldies, 1950's Doo Wop....you know David, the music you always said "DOESN'T SELL" lol lol
doowopvault said:
I spent 18 years behind the mic before moving over to the operations end of TV. When tour groups would come through, I explained to them (paraphrasing David years before I met him here) that:
"The business of broadcasting is providing an audience for your advertiser's message"
If "playing something for everyone" generates an audience that attracts advertisers will pay for then it is good business. But if the variety does not attract an audience that advertisers are interested in paying for, then it can not be good business. Who pays the rent, mortgage, insurance, utilities, salaries, wages, etc. if the advertisers don't pay to reach your audience?
T
Thomps2525
Guest
"Who pays the rent, mortgage, insurance, utilities, salaries, wages, etc."
I swear that sounds like a line from Lady Madonna.
So radio is supposed to play music that "a bunch of listeners like"? It seems that stations are trying to play only the songs that all the listeners like. Stations that played MOR, big-band, doo-wop, 1950s, bluegrass, Americana, southern gospel and several other formats used to be relatively common. Now the "big guys" have decided that those styles of music are no longer liked by "a bunch of listeners" so the "bunch of listeners" that does exist has to find Internet stations that play what they want to hear. But ain't we lucky if we want to hear Adele and Lady GaGa and Brown Eyed Girl!
I swear that sounds like a line from Lady Madonna.
So radio is supposed to play music that "a bunch of listeners like"? It seems that stations are trying to play only the songs that all the listeners like. Stations that played MOR, big-band, doo-wop, 1950s, bluegrass, Americana, southern gospel and several other formats used to be relatively common. Now the "big guys" have decided that those styles of music are no longer liked by "a bunch of listeners" so the "bunch of listeners" that does exist has to find Internet stations that play what they want to hear. But ain't we lucky if we want to hear Adele and Lady GaGa and Brown Eyed Girl!
Excuse me...
If "playing something for everyone" generates an audience that attracts advertisers will pay for then it is good business.
Should have read:
If "playing something for everyone" attracts an audience that advertisers will pay for then it is good business.
So, you want to hear everything? I've put together something for my own amusement/entertainment. Everything (Top 100) from 1954 to 1987 and the jingles from the station I listened to growing up and later DJed at. It's up for the day (Sunday 7/14):
http://myradiostream.com/1340bgnrevisited
If "playing something for everyone" generates an audience that attracts advertisers will pay for then it is good business.
Should have read:
If "playing something for everyone" attracts an audience that advertisers will pay for then it is good business.
So, you want to hear everything? I've put together something for my own amusement/entertainment. Everything (Top 100) from 1954 to 1987 and the jingles from the station I listened to growing up and later DJed at. It's up for the day (Sunday 7/14):
http://myradiostream.com/1340bgnrevisited
PirateJohnny said:
Pirate, that's a good station. There are many songs your station plays, but major market terrestrial radio sadly does not play. Too bad the average listener has not realized the great music available online. They insist on hearing the same ole, same ole on regular radio filled with 8 minute stop sets, 2-3 times an hour. Oh well....
T
Thomps2525
Guest
Aubrey, Car Wash, Tenderness, Comin' In & Out Of Your Life, Middle Of The Road, Take It On The Run, It Hurts To Be Sixteen...what a dumb station! Where are Happy Together and Brown Eyed Girl and Oh Pretty Woman and Do Wah Diddy Diddy and Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye?
(I hope David understands my satire there. I'm afraid he'll take me seriously and then he'll say, "See? People don't want obscure songs---they want to hear the same few big hits over and over and over!"
)
(I hope David understands my satire there. I'm afraid he'll take me seriously and then he'll say, "See? People don't want obscure songs---they want to hear the same few big hits over and over and over!"
)LARadioRewind said:Aubrey, Car Wash, Tenderness, Comin' In & Out Of Your Life, Middle Of The Road, Take It On The Run, It Hurts To Be Sixteen...what a dumb station! Where are Happy Together and Brown Eyed Girl and Oh Pretty Woman and Do Wah Diddy Diddy and Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye?
(I hope David understands my satire there. I'm afraid he'll take me seriously and then he'll say, "See? People don't want obscure songs---they want to hear the same few big hits over and over and over!"
I played those last week when I wasn't streaming. They'll be back in four weeks.
T
Thomps2525
Guest
So your station is just like all the others: you play Happy Together and Brown Eyed Girl and Oh Pretty Woman every four hours!
Oh wait...you said "four weeks." My mistake.
In 2004-05 KSUR, located in Mission Hills but licensed to the ritzier-sounding Beverly Hills, simulcast a 1950s-60s oldies with XESUR-Tijuana. "Oldies 1260 & 540" played almost every top-40 pop hit from 1955 to 1969. The emphasis was on lower-charting songs; if a song was regularly played on FM oldies station KRTH, it would be heard on KSUR only once a week. They took requests too. John Regan had a weekend doo-wop show and didn't have a copy of the Harps' Marie but he tracked down a copy and played it in response to my request. Wow! Unfortunately the station was---and still is---owned by Saul Levine, who tends to change formats every year or two. The oldies gave way to standards in 2005; the station is now classical. We need to have a greater number of independent station owners who aren't afraid to play what we want instead of telling us that "nobody wants to hear those old songs anymore."
Oh wait...you said "four weeks." My mistake.
In 2004-05 KSUR, located in Mission Hills but licensed to the ritzier-sounding Beverly Hills, simulcast a 1950s-60s oldies with XESUR-Tijuana. "Oldies 1260 & 540" played almost every top-40 pop hit from 1955 to 1969. The emphasis was on lower-charting songs; if a song was regularly played on FM oldies station KRTH, it would be heard on KSUR only once a week. They took requests too. John Regan had a weekend doo-wop show and didn't have a copy of the Harps' Marie but he tracked down a copy and played it in response to my request. Wow! Unfortunately the station was---and still is---owned by Saul Levine, who tends to change formats every year or two. The oldies gave way to standards in 2005; the station is now classical. We need to have a greater number of independent station owners who aren't afraid to play what we want instead of telling us that "nobody wants to hear those old songs anymore."
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