Why Did WYAY Fail

[acheron1982]

I wanted to open up this topic to discuss and learn from others. Classic Hits (70's soft pop) is not my genre of music and while I realize I'm biased in this department, I still want to learn WHY most on this board feel that 70's soft pop will do well in the city of Atlanta after it failed on WYAY. I understand that I'm missing something here but I want you all to school me and discuss it on the board on where WYAY went wrong. They adjusted their playlist several times and each time several classic hits (pop) fanatics grumbled regardless of which direction they went. Where id they go wrong? What could have they done better?

My theory is that a slue of the classic hits (pop) fanatics on this board will debate among themselves on what makes a classic hits station and what destroys it. I believe some on here will argue that variety is best (60's 70's 80's) while others would argue that 80's Phil Collins would clash with 60's motown. Let the games begin....

 

[BarryATL]

Did it really fail? Could it be that Cumulus wanted their biggest signal for the news operation and that left a format without a signal? I do find it curious that they did not move AGH over to an HD signal. They have plenty.

 

[BIGSTICK]

It did not fail, they had over 600k listeners daily. Problems I had was the sound, it was flat very little treble, too compressed. The jocks were not good, no jingles/pams packages. The station started to become boring and redundant, like all stations in this hip-hop market....

 

[acheron1982]

So are you saying that ratings reflect nothing in terms of a stations failure or success? Are you saying that ratings for WYAY did signal failure but it was not the format but the sound quality that forced those low ratings?

 

[BarryATL]

The ratings were okay and actually the last couple of months trended up. Had news not been in the works, AGH probably would stay with some more effort put into the format. It appears that Cumulus has the news format in the works for about a year so the put AGH on auto pilot.

 

[carolinaradio]

WYAY played very little "70s soft pop." I consider that to be Streisand, Manilow, Carpenters, etc. They might have flirted with it with some softer Elton John, Eagles, Rod Stewart, and Little River Band, Player, etc. but that's about it. The 70s soft pop songs they played were in line with what most other classic hits stations across the nation play that do well with listeners in their 40s and 50s.

WYAY was getting around a 3 share when Citadel was still running it last summer. Had they retained ownership and stayed on the path they were on, I think it could have gone higher. Cumulus took over and ruined it musically. They played more late 80s than early 80s, and added more 60s (even some early 60s, I think) - it was a musical train wreck. I think Cumulus already knew what they wanted to do with 106.7 so it became an afterthought until they were ready to launch all-news. They can program decent classic hits stations. I can't help but wonder if they wanted the numbers to decline so they could give a good excuse for blowing it up.

 

[acheron1982]

Ok- I'm starting to see where you are all coming from but I can't find a station that does not do what you say WYAY started to do which is my main point. So many reflect back to WCBS in New York as a good classic hits station to mirror and while they do play Barry Manilow, they also play several late 80's hits from Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston while still playing The Four Tops and The Supremes. I also note that 50's are GONE.

 

[acheron1982]

I also don't see very much "soft pop" on WCBS playlist with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 every four or five hours.

 

[atlantaboy]

The ratings were okay and actually the last couple of months trended up.

I think it's funny how WYAY and Dave can have ratings that are so close together, yet WYAY's ratings are considered "okay" while Dave's ratings are abominable

WYAY failed because there aren't a lot advertisers that want to target people that like 70s pop

 

[BIGSTICK]

The ratings were okay and actually the last couple of months trended up.

I think it's funny how WYAY and Dave can have ratings that are so close together, yet WYAY's ratings are considered "okay" while Dave's ratings are abominable

WYAY failed because there aren't a lot advertisers that want to target people that like 70s pop

I don't agree. I am not bragging, but I am worth about 100 million, from inheritance. I am 58 years old. Many of my friends constantly complain that their is nothing on the radio worth listening to. You must be a spy or work for Dave FM. Where do you hear that advertisers don't want that demo? The little twinks that listen to teenage hip hop are supported by their parent's in their 40's, 50's, they pay the bills. Many 30's and 40's children are living with parents or Grandparents' again they pay the bills. These stations ought to be bowing down to people in the 50's 60's 70's and older.

 

[carolinaradio]

The ratings were okay and actually the last couple of months trended up.

I think it's funny how WYAY and Dave can have ratings that are so close together, yet WYAY's ratings are considered "okay" while Dave's ratings are abominable

WYAY failed because there aren't a lot advertisers that want to target people that like 70s pop

OK, if that's true, look at all of the top markets (there are a few exceptions, like Houston and DC), most have classic hits stations that are doing well. If they couldn't get advertisers, they wouldn't exist.

Like it or not - classic hits does well in most markets it's been tried in recently...

 

[atlantaboy]

The ratings were okay and actually the last couple of months trended up.

I think it's funny how WYAY and Dave can have ratings that are so close together, yet WYAY's ratings are considered "okay" while Dave's ratings are abominable

WYAY failed because there aren't a lot advertisers that want to target people that like 70s pop

OK, if that's true, look at all of the top markets (there are a few exceptions, like Houston and DC), most have classic hits stations that are doing well. If they couldn't get advertisers, they wouldn't exist.

Like it or not - classic hits does well in most markets it's been tried in recently...

I think the difference is that Atlanta already has a Classic Hits station, and although it may lean to the rock end of things, it's the Classic Hits format adjusted for the Southern audience (which wants to hear more Skynard than Stevie Wonder)

What people on this board are asking for are TWO Classic Hits stations - one that leans "70s pop", and the other that leans "70s rock" - and I don't know too many major markets the are supporting two Classic Hits outlets

Classic Hits stations like the River don't have a problem with getting advertising, since 70s rock is just as popular with males in their 20s/30s/40s as it is males in their 50s/60s - you can't say the same about Barry Manilow

 

[DTF1960]

Anyone who says WYAY "failed" is speaking from their only personal bias and not from the facts. Check the last few books and trends. While Dave FM was heading down, WYAY was heading back up. And, as Brent pointed out, AGH had an audience of almost 650k - about 200k more than Dave FM. No, WYAY didn't have the numbers of a V103 or even Q100, but they weren't doing badly enough to pull the plug (unlike a couple of other stations in town). There WAS an audience for the format. The simple truth is that Cumulus has been wanting to try the All News format for some time, Atlanta made sense being their home town, and they chose 106.7's frequency strictly because of the signal.

 

[atlantaboy]

Anyone who says WYAY "failed" is speaking from their only personal bias and not from the facts. Check the last few books and trends. While Dave FM was heading down, WYAY was heading back up. And, as Brent pointed out, AGH had an audience of almost 650k - about 200k more than Dave FM. No, WYAY didn't have the numbers of a V103 or even Q100, but they weren't doing badly enough to pull the plug (unlike a couple of other stations in town). There WAS an audience for the format. The simple truth is that Cumulus has been wanting to try the All News format for some time, Atlanta made sense being their home town, and they chose 106.7's frequency strictly because of the signal.

If that were the case, and Cumulus believed that there was potential in the AGH format, why didn't they just move WYAY to 100.5?

 

[DTF1960]

It's my understanding that they discussed doing just that right up until the last minute. You'd have to ask someone at Cumulus why they ultimately didn't, but my guess partly involves the cost for a format switch. Cheaper to leave it status quo, even if 100.5's ratings were (are) dismal. But, I don't have an argument with Cumulus switching AGH's format to All News, only with the use of the word "fail". It's like saying the guy batting 8th on a Major League baseball team has "failed"...when there are other players who are riding the bench.

 

[IT_Guru]

AGH DID NOT FAIL! As most everyone has pointed out, the ratings were starting to climb again. The two biggest problems I see is that when Cumulus took control of the station, one of the first things they did was can Randy & Spiff which "pi**sed" off quite a few listeners who only listened to the station on their way to work just to hear them.

For me, the biggest problem was presentation. Many of the songs that are being played on most Classic Hits stations around the country were not in the playlist (at least I didn't hear them) while other artists/songs were and shouldn't have been. The DJ's on the station didn't sound very exciting either and I felt like they didn't really know that much about the music. There was never any interesting facts about a particular song when it was played. AGH sounded mostly like an iPod loaded with mp3's just playing one song after another in no particular order.

 

[acheron1982]

I started off this chain with a statement that I was biased. Honestly, I can't stand Manilow or the Carpenters and I can't stand disco. My bases for feeling that WYAY "failed" was simply by the fact that Cumulus pulled the plug. I also am not a fan of R&B and Hip Hop but V103 is "successful". My favorite genre of music is the little "niche" format called Alternative by 99X failed again and again and again.

Perhaps, WYAY did not fail and Cumulus simply did not give the station long enough to prove itself. I don't know and that is why I'm asking you all. While I love rock and while I tend to really follow the rock formats - I recognize that this site is for radio fanatics to discuss radio. We all have our personal bias and taste when it comes to our style of music.

The purpose for me asking the question was to attempt to understand where WYAY went wrong and what it could have done to be better than it was and perhaps grow to be a better "classic hits" station that it ended up being. I'm not saying that @IT_Guru or @BRENT are full of it. My whole intention was to have the classic hits (pop leaning) fanatics to discuss what happened.

So yes, personally, I'm biased. 70's pop is a big yawner for me. Some of the classic rock artist that I enjoy burned disco records back in the day and in my view, rightfully so. All this personal view of taste in music is irrelevant. I'm not, nor have I ever suggested that 70's pop would never work in Atlanta. I'm opening my mind up to a different format in attempt to learn what the station did wrong because radio (regardless of the format) intrigues me.

Some of us are liberal and are passionate for why liberal radio would work in Atlanta, same goes for us that are conservative. I despise urban music but I rely on on KMF700 (I think that's his screen name) to discuss what should be with urban and rhythmic stations.

I'm just learning here and mean not to attack as specific format in this particular setting. My goal of this post is simply to be "schooled" on what WYAY did wrong (if anything) and what could be done to correct it so that classic hits (pop leaning) could succeed in Atlanta to the point of no threat of being removed. I do understand the aggravation of no format of choice in this market. I'm suffering right there with you when it comes to a different format.

 

[ArtyBoy]

I don't agree. I am not bragging, but I am worth about 100 million, from inheritance.

$100 million?! I'm starting a station that will cater to Brent only. Brent, what song would you like me to put upon the turntable? I'll play any song you want for a mere $10,000 per spin.

 

[carolinaradio]

As transient as Atlanta is, I have a hard time believing that classic hits that is targeted towards a "southern audience" could/would do better than mainstream classic hits. I think one reason 97.1 did better than 106.7 is because despite the fact that they're as boring as watching paint dry, they've had their act together and were fairly consistent. 106.7 was a parade of bad decisions, changes, and poor programming, especially in the last year.
AGH wouldn't have gone well with TRG at all, which apparently stay at 100.5 regardless of format due to contractual issues.

I don't know how familiar a lot of you are with today's classic hits, but a PROPERLY PROGRAMMED one plays very few "slow" 70s pop songs. None of them play Barry Manilow. I saw John Denver mentioned on another thread also. Seriously? Tempo is key on today's classic hits. Unless it tests well, very few snoozers are played. WOGL/Philadelphia - WOMC/Detroit - KRTH/LA - WCBS/NYC - KOSF/San Francisco - WLS-F/Chicago - KLUV/Dallas - WRBQ/Tampa - KOOL/Phoenix - etc. - I would suggest reviewing/streaming those for a good idea of classic hits in 2012.

I know it's a smaller market, but Orlando, FL is a good example of a market where classic hits struggled in the past but was made to work. CBS blew up a rocker (WOCL) there and went classic hits in '08, it didn't do that great. After a couple of years and cleaning out the airstaff, they named a PD that came from NYC and also brought in new talent. After careful tweaking and patience, the numbers started to rise and now the station does quite well. They sound absolutely fantastic, geared to the market, very high energy. It takes patience, expertise, good imaging, and a good airstaff...all of which WOCL has. 106.7 had none of those. That market also has a semi-classic hits station owned by Cox, who plays a lot of older stuff that The River plays. Both do well. CBS has the resources, knowledge, and patience to make the format do the best it can in ATL. Classic Hits, especially in bigger markets that are competitive, can't just be thrown on the air.

 

[fortt3]

AGH DID NOT FAIL! As most everyone has pointed out, the ratings were starting to climb again. The two biggest problems I see is that when Cumulus took control of the station, one of the first things they did was can Randy & Spiff which "pi**sed" off quite a few listeners who only listened to the station on their way to work just to hear them.

For me, the biggest problem was presentation. Many of the songs that are being played on most Classic Hits stations around the country were not in the playlist (at least I didn't hear them) while other artists/songs were and shouldn't have been. The DJ's on the station didn't sound very exciting either and I felt like they didn't really know that much about the music. There was never any interesting facts about a particular song when it was played. AGH sounded mostly like an iPod loaded with mp3's just playing one song after another in no particular order.

hmm... DJ excited about the music ... knowledgeable ... interesting facts ... theme weekends. DING DING DING! Scott Shannon's True Oldies Channel!