Why digital is necessary

[Mike Walker]

Of all the countries to use as an example of digital, the UK????? Analog is QUICKLY dying there. The marketplace has decided...DIGITAL! The vast majority of radios sold are digital. It's an overwhelming success in the UK! Of course they use a completely different system!

 

[awj223]

I'm sorry, but I'm all for the government choosing technical standards. It's why we have the freakin' FCC (imho, that's about all they should do...license stations, create technical rules, and enforce them). But as for when old technology dies, I think that should be entirely a marketplace decision.

It isn't "stubbornness" when an 80 year old person on a fixed income doesn't want to be forced to buy a new tv when the old one works just fine. If they're happy with the service, and the station is happy to serve them, and that station is also sending a digital signal as mandated, here's a message for the government: BUT THE HELL OUT! I may be a Democrat, but I'm quite conservative when it comes to getting the government the hell out of or lives, and our markets!

Careful, the marketplace often does NOT decide when technology dies. It's often government interference with the free market that props up old technologies too long. The AMPS phone system would have died years ago were it not for the FCC mandate to keep it running. Look at all the complaints about newer digital phones not being compatible with hearing aids, etc., that very few people use. But rather than mandate that digital equipment be compatible with hearing aids, the FCC has instead propped up an inefficient, insecure, over 20-year-old standard. That is finally coming to an end next year. If the free market had its way, the 80 year old person on a fixed income would either be forced to buy a new TV or go without TV once the vast majority of the public had upgraded. If 80 year old viewers don't sell help sell advertising, the station owner wouldn't hesitate to kill analog. Maybe they're still happy with the service, but the station isn't serving them by choice...the government is forcing them to still broadcast low quality, spectrally inefficient NTSC signals.

If you want the government out of the free market, then accept the fact that there are going to be low and fixed income people who have not yet upgraded their equipment that are forced to do without service when the switchover happens. It's the higher income groups with more disposable income that are targeted by advertisers and make money for stations.

 

[Mike Walker]

Here's how to know the technology isn't dead. When 70-80 percent of the tvs in use are analog......

 

[PocketRadio]

Of all the countries to use as an example of digital, the UK????? Analog is QUICKLY dying there. The marketplace has decided...DIGITAL! The vast majority of radios sold are digital. It's an overwhelming success in the UK! Of course they use a completely different system!

"The future of UK radio is now in your hands"

"If you are concerned about the future of radio in the UK, it's time to get involved... There are some dramatic changes up for consideration, such as replacing AM radio with Digital Radio Mondiale and replacing FM with DAB. These could render hundreds of millions of radio sets obsolete, and either make radio sound much better or - as with DAB - worse... Ofcom stresses that nothing has been decided... The problem is that people choose their radio stations for content rather than sound quality... Green says: "It is totally unacceptable to even consider switching off FM unless there is regulation in place to ensure that listeners get at the very least the same audio quality level on digital radio as they receive on FM, and preferably it should be significantly higher. This is the 21st century, after all. If they can't beat 1960s FM there is something very wrong. The way Ofcom is going, Green says he'd put a large bet on the UK getting digital radio with the worst audio quality in Europe. We already have the worst average DAB quality in the world."

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1954150,00.html#article_continue

"Current DAB receivers to become obsolete?"

"AFAIK existing DAB receivers will still be usable with existing channels in the same way the Long Wave radios can still get BBC Radio 4. The new format broadcasts will run alongside the existing ones. I assume there will be some stations which migrate to DAB2, but I would expect the core stations (eg BBC and Classic FM) to be still broadcast in DAB format for the foreseeable future. This is a complete killer for the existing DAB radio market though. Everyone will now sit on their wallet waiting for the new kit to come out (which ideally should be FM / DAB / DAB2 compatible)."

http://www.radioandtelly.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1173694071

"Digital radio in Canada"

"The Commission is very concerned about the stalled DRB transition. Roughly 15 of the 76 authorized stations (including the digital-only operation in Toronto) are not on the air. Some stations that once operated have since ceased operations. Few recievers have been sold, and there is no interest in expanding DRB service beyond the six cities where it exists."

http://americanbandscan.blogspot.com/2006/12/digital-radio-in-canada.html

"But is 'availability' of HD radios the problem?"

"The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. And one broadcaster reported to me that he asked an iBiquity rep how many HD radios had actually been sold as of the most recent accounting. And this was his answer: 150,000."

http://www.hear2.com/2007/04/but_is_availabi.html#comments

DAB in the UK is a mess, DAB has stalled in Canada, and there is little consumer interest in HD/IBOC in the US.

 

[awj223]

Here's how to know the technology isn't dead. When 70-80 percent of the tvs in use are analog......

Even though most TVs in use are analog, it's getting difficult to find households without at least one HDTV. You may have 3 TVs in a house, 2 analog and one digital, but if analog were dropped tomorrow that household would not be without TV (and that household would still count more toward the analog total than the digital total).

The total number of analog mobile phones in use is something like 0.5-1% of the total. This is an obvious case of the government propping up old technologies.

 

[PocketRadio]

Of all the countries to use as an example of digital, the UK????? Analog is QUICKLY dying there. The marketplace has decided...DIGITAL! The vast majority of radios sold are digital. It's an overwhelming success in the UK! Of course they use a completely different system!

"Digital radio growth slows"

"However, the rate at which listeners are joining the digital platform appears to be slowing. A total of 15.3 per cent of UK adults own a DAB radio set, the same figure as three months ago."

http://tinyurl.com/2blj4j

DAB is an "overwhelming" success in the UK !

 

[Mike Walker]

Yeah, growth will tend to slow when ever larger portions of the population have digital radios. You really give this stuff some thought, huh?

Here's a prediction...as more people buy digital tvs, growth of them will "slow" too. Growth of PCs slowed in the late 90s because EVERYBODY HAD ONE.

Open a new condominium complex, and sell the spacious units (200 of them in all) for 500 dollars per. It's likely that sales will start out brisk, but slow as one by one THEY ARE SOLD!

It's a little thing called supply and demand. As demand is satisfied, it diminishes. As the market becomes flooded, prices fall further, spurring renewed demand.

DVD players are a great example. In 1999 demand was great, and prices were rapidly falling. By 2002, demand was slowing because most movie lovers had one. By 2003, you could actually buy one for 50 dollars at Wal Mart. At that price point people say "well, why nto get one for the bedroom, or kids room?" Then they dropped to 25 dollars, and people like me bought another one, even if we didn't need it just because it's freakin' TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS!

The UK will undoubtedly go through these phases, as all free markets do...when the new, exciting, and expensive ceases to be new...or exciting...or expensive. THAT'S HOW MARKETS WORK!

 

[clouseau]

Of all the countries to use as an example of digital, the UK????? Analog is QUICKLY dying there. The marketplace has decided...DIGITAL! The vast majority of radios sold are digital. It's an overwhelming success in the UK! Of course they use a completely different system!

"Digital radio growth slows"

"However, the rate at which listeners are joining the digital platform appears to be slowing. A total of 15.3 per cent of UK adults own a DAB radio set, the same figure as three months ago."

http://tinyurl.com/2blj4j

DAB is an "overwhelming" success in the UK !

You know, it is just unreal how you can distort articles to prove a point in hopes that no one will read them. While the headline is correct and the quote from near the end of the story is correct, AS USUAL, the entire misdirected quote is out of context. Let me frame it for you. How about just the first line of the article.

The amount of people listening to digital radio has edged to its highest ever level, according to the latest Rajar report, although the figures appear to be nearing a plateau.

If anyone has any interest in this READ THE ARTICLE. The summation presented by Pocket is... A little weak.

Clouseau

 

[Mike Walker]

I never click on Pocket's links. Every one is either something misleading that's been posted ad nauseum, or is out of context. If it's a "statistic", or a technical remark, it's from someone either ill equipped, or not even in a position to reach the conclusion they've reached. There's never any "there" there. So why click? I'd rather just state the obvious...UK is THE major success story for digital radio, then move on.

 

[PocketRadio]

Yeah, growth will tend to slow when ever larger portions of the population have digital radios. You really give this stuff some thought, huh? It's a little thing called supply and demand. As demand is satisfied, it diminishes. As the market becomes flooded, prices fall further, spurring renewed demand.

"IPod Sales Graph.png"

http://www.answers.com/topic/ipod-sales-graph-png

"600% growth in iPods leads to Apple's best quarter" 4/27/2007

"... while Apple shipped more than 6 million iPods, which is more than six times the iPods sold a year ago."

http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/mt/archives/2005/07/600_growth_in_i_1.php

"Who's buying iPods?"

"As many as 22 million American adults, or about 11 percent of the U.S. population, own iPods or other MP3 players, a new study has found."

http://news.com.com/Whos+buying+iPods/2100-1041_3-5577396.html

Contrary to what you claim, the percentage of a population that own a product, has nothing to do with future sales growth. Sometimes, you really crack-me-up !

 

[PocketRadio]

If anyone has any interest in this READ THE ARTICLE. The summation presented by Pocket is... A little weak.

Clouseau

The only thing you have done is twisted the article to your own means - I only posted it to show that DAB growth in the UK also appears to have stalled, just as in Canada.

 

[clouseau]

If anyone has any interest in this READ THE ARTICLE. The summation presented by Pocket is... A little weak.

Clouseau

The only thing you have done is twisted the article to your own means - I only posted it to show that DAB growth in the UK also appears to have stalled, just as in Canada.

Bravo Sierra. Does this look like an article that believes digital radio is similar to the Canadian Situation? Read it.

Mark Story, programming director at Emap, said: “Although listener numbers are up, penetration seems to have stalled slightly. However, the internet and iPod has undoubtedly changed the way we listen to radio, and consumers are becoming more specialised in their choices now they have access to more stations.
<snip>
The steady growth of digital radio has helped commercial stations take on the BBC, with national commercial share now at its highest-ever level, at 10.9 per cent. Combined with the dip in BBC audience share, the digital platform will increasingly be seen by commercial operators as an invaluable tool in taking on the corporation.

Emphasis added.

Again, to anyone interested in the article READ IT. The Cliff's notes version posted just doesn't do it justice.

Clouseau

 

[PocketRadio]

"Radio: On the Up ?"

"Table 1 shows the audience profiles across the various radio media. What is notable, if not very surprising, is how emerging media works so well together for the industry. The older age groups have taken to digital radio and particularly buying of digital radio sets, while younger generations are accessing stations via the web and on mobiles - although the latter is still at a very low base."

http://www.mediatelgroup.co.uk/press.php?fileid=9&pressid=53

"DCMS REVIEW OF DAB DIGITAL RADIO"

"The 45 to 54 year old age group is the largest among current purchasers, although the 55 to 64 year old age group is close behind."

http://tinyurl.com/g6aq5

Just as with the AM band in the US, DAB radio mainly appeals to the 45+ age groups - DAB uptake in the UK will be limited.

 

[Mike Walker]

Ipods are apparently like crack. Once you start buyin' them, you never stop. I'll grant that Ipods don't exactly follow my rule about how markets react (once the market is saturated, sales slow, until falling price or some innovative new feature creates renewed demand). It's mystifying to me (Ipod sales)...probably because I was "into" portable mp3 players years before there was such thing as an Ipod. I've always found Ipods to be long on styling, but short on features. It took YEARS for them to offer video playback. Codec support lags WAY behind, say, my Archos Gmini 402. Ipods STILL can't record (my Archos can). And there's no FM tuner...which the vast majority of other units have. On top of it all, Ipods often cost more!

Pay more, get less. That may appeal to some. For now I'll stick to Creative for solid state players, Archos for hard drive, and my Dell Axim X51v for mp3 and video playback, as well as internet radio. In fact, with Resco Pocket Radio software, I can actually record internet radio direct to my PocketPC. There are much more capable devices out there. And all of them that I can think (unlike Ipod) follow the rules I stated earlier about how the consumer electronics marketplace behaves.

 

[Mike Walker]

Anybody who believes it's mostly 45+ year olds who drive sales of digital technology IN THIS COUNTRY (and I'm 48...I'm the exception, NOT THE RULE) is delusional!

 

[PocketRadio]

I've always found Ipods to be long on styling, but short on features.

"Radio Self-Fulfills Self-Aggrandizing Prophecy"

"If they were the same price, which would you prefer? A gleaming, fresh iPod? Or a stupid*ss hi-def radio that nobody cares tiddlywinks about?"

http://tinyurl.com/2mt3g4

Looks like you are in the minority !

 

[clouseau]

I've always found Ipods to be long on styling, but short on features.

"Radio Self-Fulfills Self-Aggrandizing Prophecy"

"If they were the same price, which would you prefer? A gleaming, fresh iPod? Or a stupid*ss hi-def radio that nobody cares tiddlywinks about?"

http://tinyurl.com/2mt3g4

Looks like you are in the minority !

WOW! I have to admit, you have really scoured the globe for this one. You have found a site that has had exactly 35 views since March of last year. Based on a survey by Lord God Mark Ramsey. It doesn't matter whether it says it's good for HD or BAD for HD. This type of reporting is just garbage.

Cripes, there's more than 35 views of ANYTHING.

More absolute junk science.

Clouseau

 

[Mike Walker]

35 views in a year? The pictures of my dog at my blog have more views than that!

 

[wgliradio]

Not MY experience with HD! I find HD FM to work anywhere noise-free analog fm stereo works. I have no first-hand experience with AM HD, but have heard from people I trust that it is far more tolerant of things like interference from flourescent lights and computer monitors than analog AM. And an intermittent pop against an otherwise quiet background shouldn't be a challenge for any digital system that actually works!

1) If HD FM works where noise free analog FM stereo works, why bother? It needs to work where FM is noisy. It does not.

2) AM HD does not work even with slight noise. My Accurian HD radio will not decode any of the AM's even with the slightest amount of noise.. sometimes where there is NO noticable noise at all.. The analog signal... more than listenable, the digital nowhere to be found. In order for it to get any AM HD, 40 miles east of NYC, it has to be midday with near perfect conditions and every TV, monitor and dimmer in the house off. This is with the supplied loop, which will make or break the product with the average Joe.

 

[Mike Walker]

Why bother? Well for one thing "noise free" on analog fm means a noise level of maybe -55 to -60db. With HD it means -96db. With analog FM it means distortion of perhaps a percent or two (actually often MUCH more the way fm is over-processed). With HD, potentially it's .05 percent or lower. With analog FM you can either be loud, or you can be bright and clean, but you can NEVER be both because of pre-emphasis, which doesn't exist with HD...so HD will ALWAYS (when engineered well!) sound cleaner and more open. Stereo separation is DRAMATICALLY better with HD (the least of the benefits mentioned, imho...after all separation on analog fm can be pretty damn good). Those are the SOUND QUALITY differences. And I haven't even mentioned MORE CHOICE! EVERY station can offer more than one program at a time...giving listeners MANY new choices!

Uh...that's why. I could come up with more, I'm sure. But that'll do.