Just looking at a thread on the NY board about Pulse 87, there are a couple of people who seem to hate dance music with the same passion as we love it. Last year when Tony started a "filly needz a danz stayshun" thread on the Philly board, a lot of people hated that idea. What makes people hate our kind of music? I can't imagine people hating say, oldies with such a passion.
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Why do people hate dance music?
- Thread starter nd2023
- Start date
Same thing happens with Rap/Hip Hop and Country.... and to somewhat of a lesser extent, other forms of music as well.
But keeping the topic set on the dance side of things, I think the problem with many dance hits are the bad sounding productions and amount of boring, monotone songs that are put out. In addition to this, dance music is all stereotyped to all sound the same. Since pretty much only one sound is accepted in the U.S. dance community to begin with, the stereotype continues to be fed as that one sound continues to always be what's played as dance. How often do you hear breaks and other forms of dance being played on a dance station? So to the average listener, it all sounds the same to them and they remain unaware that there are other styles of uptempo beat arrangements that they might actually like, even if they don't like the house or trance drum beat patterns. That's just a summary of the cliffnotes version of the entire situation.
But keeping the topic set on the dance side of things, I think the problem with many dance hits are the bad sounding productions and amount of boring, monotone songs that are put out. In addition to this, dance music is all stereotyped to all sound the same. Since pretty much only one sound is accepted in the U.S. dance community to begin with, the stereotype continues to be fed as that one sound continues to always be what's played as dance. How often do you hear breaks and other forms of dance being played on a dance station? So to the average listener, it all sounds the same to them and they remain unaware that there are other styles of uptempo beat arrangements that they might actually like, even if they don't like the house or trance drum beat patterns. That's just a summary of the cliffnotes version of the entire situation.
I could understand why people hate hip hop, because some artists curse a lot and glorify drugs, sex, violence, etc. Dance music doesn't have that.
If I proclaim that I absolutely despise classical music, people will think I'm weird, because nobody hates classical music (I am not too fond of classical music because my parents forced it on me at a young age and I always thought it was boring). Well, some people (both on these boards and in real life) have openly said that they hate dance music, and other people support them and say they hate dance music too.
If I proclaim that I absolutely despise classical music, people will think I'm weird, because nobody hates classical music (I am not too fond of classical music because my parents forced it on me at a young age and I always thought it was boring). Well, some people (both on these boards and in real life) have openly said that they hate dance music, and other people support them and say they hate dance music too.
This is funny because I was so close to saying "for obvious reasons" after "rap/hip hop" but decided not to at the last minute.
A lot of people dislike country, but you mostly hear people say that. You'll rarely see that in written/typed form.
Hip hop for most people is either hit or miss, or I don't care either way. You'll always get people to come out and say they hate hip hop in written/typed form, but usually only if someone else says it first or starts something, then you can get a whole forum of arguments started on the good and bad of hip hop, that usually always tends to drift off the topic of music and evolve into other topics..
Dance music is easier to hate on because it's different, not as popular in the U.S., less people in the U.S. are familiar with it so it's easier for them to believe they hate it, and there is less fear of offending certain people.
But in other countries it's surely different. I bet in London and other places, there are far less people talking about how much they hate techn- I MEANT, dance music.
A lot of people dislike country, but you mostly hear people say that. You'll rarely see that in written/typed form.
Hip hop for most people is either hit or miss, or I don't care either way. You'll always get people to come out and say they hate hip hop in written/typed form, but usually only if someone else says it first or starts something, then you can get a whole forum of arguments started on the good and bad of hip hop, that usually always tends to drift off the topic of music and evolve into other topics..
Dance music is easier to hate on because it's different, not as popular in the U.S., less people in the U.S. are familiar with it so it's easier for them to believe they hate it, and there is less fear of offending certain people.
But in other countries it's surely different. I bet in London and other places, there are far less people talking about how much they hate techn- I MEANT, dance music.
they way u ask-and try to defend....
if u play...a tried and true (one more time/daft punk) song,
it may get a smile.
-
if one insists(w/out having the song avail), ...
like "u dont know who daft punk is!?!" / now, the person
will be defensive ( anyhow) and may not care to listen
to your "techno"
-
or, perhaps, let the music do your talking:
(dj-ing at a local fun/bar), playing (?/new),
flo rida, "sugar" and mixing it into blue(eiffiel #65),
and dropping in/at the chorus/say a song like...alice
dj.better off alone...and then . . back to the 'hits'...of today
(some thing like the 'dance' remix) of a current top10....
playing dance music, with out pushing it...may work.
-
often times:
at work, i meet some one (new), and a song like...
[--------]by _________ comes on, and i just happen to
mention, yea the club mix (ie: without e/drunken monkey)/a few years ago,
is a sweet remix...it usually gets a "oh, cool" answer...and
it passes.
but, my passion is for the format, and i get too . . . . .
excited about the *remix*,or the cover/etc,etc...that it
gets too . . . . and personal and now im 'defending' my music,
instead of letting the genre support itself...with the hits! it is able to produce.
-
if u play...a tried and true (one more time/daft punk) song,
it may get a smile.
-
if one insists(w/out having the song avail), ...
like "u dont know who daft punk is!?!" / now, the person
will be defensive ( anyhow) and may not care to listen
to your "techno"
-
or, perhaps, let the music do your talking:
(dj-ing at a local fun/bar), playing (?/new),
flo rida, "sugar" and mixing it into blue(eiffiel #65),
and dropping in/at the chorus/say a song like...alice
dj.better off alone...and then . . back to the 'hits'...of today
(some thing like the 'dance' remix) of a current top10....
playing dance music, with out pushing it...may work.
-
often times:
at work, i meet some one (new), and a song like...
[--------]by _________ comes on, and i just happen to
mention, yea the club mix (ie: without e/drunken monkey)/a few years ago,
is a sweet remix...it usually gets a "oh, cool" answer...and
it passes.
but, my passion is for the format, and i get too . . . . .
excited about the *remix*,or the cover/etc,etc...that it
gets too . . . . and personal and now im 'defending' my music,
instead of letting the genre support itself...with the hits! it is able to produce.
-
This goes back to the "Disco sucks campaign." Everyone is still stuck on that incident and the rave scene didn't help. Look how society labels dance music via the Dr. Pepper commercial. There's more to the dance format than just pounding boom boom boom boom and having glowsticks thrown everywhere. That's how the general public looks at dance.
I do not believe that people hate dance music. I believe they do not UNDERSTAND it. With so many sub-genres of dance music out there, PLUS artists, PLUS DJ's, PLUS DJ mixes to top 40 hits remixed, etc...It can be alot to try and grasp, especially if it is all new to someone. I think people like new music, but they like it to be simple to remember and from someone familiar. There have been so many new artists with one-hit wonders in pop music alone that it is sometimes hard for people to keep track.
The other thing is marketing. How do you market dance to the masses so that it is easy for them? Do you market the vocalist, the DJ, the mixer? It is perhaps easier for someone who has grown up listening to dance music to understand this, but in the U.S., this culture grew up as a product of the 80's (even 80's electronic) into grunge and hip-hop and they recognize these artists usually by a lead singer or entire band. If you can master the marketing aspect, you may have ALOT more dance music on the airwaves and a lot more radio stations (and corporations) who have the confidence in their audience's knowledge to continue allowing dance music to play there.
The other thing is marketing. How do you market dance to the masses so that it is easy for them? Do you market the vocalist, the DJ, the mixer? It is perhaps easier for someone who has grown up listening to dance music to understand this, but in the U.S., this culture grew up as a product of the 80's (even 80's electronic) into grunge and hip-hop and they recognize these artists usually by a lead singer or entire band. If you can master the marketing aspect, you may have ALOT more dance music on the airwaves and a lot more radio stations (and corporations) who have the confidence in their audience's knowledge to continue allowing dance music to play there.
although, im in-different(take it,or leave it)
about the dr.pepper commercial . . . i will
admit, im not offended.
this is because 1. there was no attachment to a real song;
2. it was just a 'beat'/now, if it was more vocal-based, or (euro),
i may have noticed.....
i like josh winx/higher state of....(cant spell), but for every great song
of that stature(?sp), there is just noise w/ the imitations(?sp).
. . . as others pointed out, that is not dance*that is just a beat..
however, that cant be taken to the next level , and applying that
just a beat, to . . . (vintage groups like 2.unlimited, or currents).
now i will get very defensive, when 'techno'(ie: Real McCoy) is...
(COMMENTARY
brilliant, but is 'labeled' as using a computer to
create a song; and not a real artist. . .
*THIS IS IMPORTANT*
...or , maybe the masses are hating on 'techno' cause of
lack of education* saying. . . a song like well, *for example*
that is beat-intense(its old, but blue/eiffiel#65); and it is
repeating.....the same notes over and over again
(this gets me)
cause other songs (ie: queen-we will rock you), or boston
"more than a feeling/aka/nirvana's smells like teen spirit"
(they share the exact same riff/melody), repeat the same
chords and notes over and over,but as i typed, masked better....
in fact, my friend and i sing "three cords, three cords, 3-3-chords"
(over the instrumental of the boston song)--b/c it is the
same thing, over and over.
also:
doesnt help when...hit after hit, by DHT,cascada, lasgo
is followed by the craazyfrog. or the overplaying of
aqua,at parties, in the same "catergory" as vanilla ice,
and the humpty dance.
about the dr.pepper commercial . . . i will
admit, im not offended.
this is because 1. there was no attachment to a real song;
2. it was just a 'beat'/now, if it was more vocal-based, or (euro),
i may have noticed.....
i like josh winx/higher state of....(cant spell), but for every great song
of that stature(?sp), there is just noise w/ the imitations(?sp).
. . . as others pointed out, that is not dance*that is just a beat..
however, that cant be taken to the next level , and applying that
just a beat, to . . . (vintage groups like 2.unlimited, or currents).
now i will get very defensive, when 'techno'(ie: Real McCoy) is...
(COMMENTARY
brilliant, but is 'labeled' as using a computer tocreate a song; and not a real artist. . .
*THIS IS IMPORTANT*
...or , maybe the masses are hating on 'techno' cause of
lack of education* saying. . . a song like well, *for example*
that is beat-intense(its old, but blue/eiffiel#65); and it is
repeating.....the same notes over and over again
(this gets me)
cause other songs (ie: queen-we will rock you), or boston
"more than a feeling/aka/nirvana's smells like teen spirit"
(they share the exact same riff/melody), repeat the same
chords and notes over and over,but as i typed, masked better....
in fact, my friend and i sing "three cords, three cords, 3-3-chords"
(over the instrumental of the boston song)--b/c it is the
same thing, over and over.
also:
doesnt help when...hit after hit, by DHT,cascada, lasgo
is followed by the craazyfrog. or the overplaying of
aqua,at parties, in the same "catergory" as vanilla ice,
and the humpty dance.
A lot of stuff from DHT, Cascada, and Lasgo could and should be mixed with stuff from Flo Rida, Pitbull, Akon...etc.
I also do not find it that hard to make a fun, interesting dance hit. There are so many ways to do it, even without having to water it down too much to pop or going to London to put out a bassline tune. So many artists seemingly work so diligently on quality vocals and lyrics, only to have their song badly produced and never even come slightly close to doing as well as "around the world" by Daft Punk did. Now that I look back over what I just wrote and see it in writing, I think about it and realize it is quite ironic.
One thing I did leave out in my summary of the cliffnotes version of the entire dance music situation is the other stereotypes that i've touched on in other posts. It doesn't help when every time a dance hit comes on, the dj on the radio starts saying stuff like "boy I sure do love techno" or "Dj Sohandso must be in a techno mood today" or "this music makes me just wanna pull out my glow sticks and dance"...etc. I think doing that is just as horrible as putting out a successful movie and featuring / playing dance music throughout much of it while doing stupid dances with your head. I also don't like when people must always find the need to feed the stereotype that house is all about gays! I'm sure for every gay person that listens to house, there are many others who also love alternative, dirty south hip hop, light rock, country western....etc.
As far as freestyle music goes, I believe the BIGGEST problem with freestyle is the amount of people who cannot sing. You could cut the lack of freestyle songs with quality vocals present in the music industry with a knife! I must also add that female singers do so much better within the freestyle genre than a majority of males do. In addition to that, many of the classic freestyle beats are creative, but cheesy, and then you have this mass amount of people within the freestyle community who are stuck on the old sound and will not accept anything that has or sounds modernized! This only leads to unnecessary arguments and fights about what is "real" freestyle and what is not, only hurting the genre even more. So, what does this do in the end? Just like with the dance community rejecting certain things just because some "out of genre" singer sang over the beat, it just makes it much easier for the hip hop community to come out, accept it as their own, and say "this is a new modernized style of hip hop". This will only continue to fuel the success of hip hop / pop / r&b...
If you really think about it, the reality of the situation is dance music is doing EXTREMELY well today, but most people are not noticing because psychologically they've been trained to see certain things / artists as pop or something else. Many people don't even realize much of what they are hearing today is dance as they are hearing it, although you can find a lot of people catching on and hating on certain artists for "turning techno / messing around with that techno sh...." on certain sites and forums.
Well..... most of the people who hate on dance music these days should now mostly be middle aged people / parents who have kids that are growing up into this electro-pop sound. At least for the youngsters growing up into this "new dance sound", this sound is all normal and "in" for them because everybody's listening to it and it's cool. Therefore, the future of dance music does look rather bright. Like I've said many times, this hip hop generation, who have now become the parents, can no longer reject and continue to push dance music underground. The younger generation will always pave the way for the new sound to come. The older hip hop generation can enjoy the many classic hip hop stations that are to come soon, that will be around with the present classic rock stations that popped up as rock fell from its peak.
I also do not find it that hard to make a fun, interesting dance hit. There are so many ways to do it, even without having to water it down too much to pop or going to London to put out a bassline tune. So many artists seemingly work so diligently on quality vocals and lyrics, only to have their song badly produced and never even come slightly close to doing as well as "around the world" by Daft Punk did. Now that I look back over what I just wrote and see it in writing, I think about it and realize it is quite ironic.
One thing I did leave out in my summary of the cliffnotes version of the entire dance music situation is the other stereotypes that i've touched on in other posts. It doesn't help when every time a dance hit comes on, the dj on the radio starts saying stuff like "boy I sure do love techno" or "Dj Sohandso must be in a techno mood today" or "this music makes me just wanna pull out my glow sticks and dance"...etc. I think doing that is just as horrible as putting out a successful movie and featuring / playing dance music throughout much of it while doing stupid dances with your head. I also don't like when people must always find the need to feed the stereotype that house is all about gays! I'm sure for every gay person that listens to house, there are many others who also love alternative, dirty south hip hop, light rock, country western....etc.
As far as freestyle music goes, I believe the BIGGEST problem with freestyle is the amount of people who cannot sing. You could cut the lack of freestyle songs with quality vocals present in the music industry with a knife! I must also add that female singers do so much better within the freestyle genre than a majority of males do. In addition to that, many of the classic freestyle beats are creative, but cheesy, and then you have this mass amount of people within the freestyle community who are stuck on the old sound and will not accept anything that has or sounds modernized! This only leads to unnecessary arguments and fights about what is "real" freestyle and what is not, only hurting the genre even more. So, what does this do in the end? Just like with the dance community rejecting certain things just because some "out of genre" singer sang over the beat, it just makes it much easier for the hip hop community to come out, accept it as their own, and say "this is a new modernized style of hip hop". This will only continue to fuel the success of hip hop / pop / r&b...
If you really think about it, the reality of the situation is dance music is doing EXTREMELY well today, but most people are not noticing because psychologically they've been trained to see certain things / artists as pop or something else. Many people don't even realize much of what they are hearing today is dance as they are hearing it, although you can find a lot of people catching on and hating on certain artists for "turning techno / messing around with that techno sh...." on certain sites and forums.
Well..... most of the people who hate on dance music these days should now mostly be middle aged people / parents who have kids that are growing up into this electro-pop sound. At least for the youngsters growing up into this "new dance sound", this sound is all normal and "in" for them because everybody's listening to it and it's cool. Therefore, the future of dance music does look rather bright. Like I've said many times, this hip hop generation, who have now become the parents, can no longer reject and continue to push dance music underground. The younger generation will always pave the way for the new sound to come. The older hip hop generation can enjoy the many classic hip hop stations that are to come soon, that will be around with the present classic rock stations that popped up as rock fell from its peak.
KDM 7000 said:
I actually think those 3 examples are why certain people dislike dance. It can't be taken seriously with the cheese appeal laid on so thick. It has a similiar sound to the Rave Era which is what stopped the format being accepted in the Top 40 world. In the early 90's, you would hear Black Box, C&C, Robin S, Snap and all that crossover stuff in rotation with Blacksteet, BBD, SWV, and it wouldn't piss people off. Then when they started throwing in Speed racer, 2 Unlimited, and "James Brown is dead" in the mix, those same listeners now got annoyed...the rest is history.
Radio_bored-Op said:
It might be Cheese, but it's still better to mix it with flo rida, pitbull, akon..etc than the artists mentioned above. That would psychologically give it a different image in people's minds to hear it mixed with the hot hits of today.
re Tool:
for the record:
i never said, lasgo/DHT/cascada, were cheese.
I think we should re-Tool this thread, and 'define' dance music:
now, we all know what the hell it is; but in 2009, is the
pitbull/reboot of nightcrawlers considered "dance" . . .
is the music choice channel, that plays . . .. steady-beat techno,
what they are hating on ? or . . . do the masses, 'hate' the
techno that is currently being released as 'dance remixes'
(because the artist: Pink) who has the studio album version is
the ONE and ONLY version, and it was ruined by 'the techno mix'
(ps: that is never the case), better yet... the artist would be kelly clarkson...lol
or,
does this info-entertaining post take a completely different turn, and
say the 'hater-nation' is focused on the history of excellent artists,
captain hollywood/2 unlimited(hits,only), C&C, snap, real mccoy,
fun factory, etc...
while most of us have fond memories, some do not ; that is fine...
but did that set up the failures of today ?
-
in perspective: if you were exposed to coolio,in 1996,
to the point of nausea, perhaps, you could be. . closed minded
of future songs by dre/emimen . . . b/c of the pre-existing condition
that you heard it all before ( and it is pretty clear that em/dre, have
a way different style, but not sound than 1996/coolio.).
also: consider this:
being involoved in the culture, as i type this, the song, cataract 2nite,
i have singing in my head...i enjoy it. but if i didnt KNOW and have
passion (for the best/damn genre.... : ) it would be frustrating to
identify w/ an artist/song, and not to start the whole face-less
(not to be confused w/ faithless) arguement, perhaps the 'hatin'
comes from . . . just not having a 'connection'
-sidebar,inquiry:
does songs like pitbull sampling (*obvious) previous hits, create
a spike in any interest in (the latest case), the c.1995 nightcrawlers
anthem "push the feelin' on" ( either on retro-throwback mix-shows),
or even a quick reference on rick dee's, saying if you like the saxophone
in his current song, goto itunes, and the group is nightcrawlers.....
hmm??
re:
pitbull, does he know he is sampling previous dance artist material,
or just have a producer who has a great ear for music ?
and who is "next" ( no peeking, if u have heard the song, via the full-length
album/itunes.store,etc) do not post - -
COMMENTARY:
i believe next song, will be benny benassi, 'satisifaction' hmm?
for the record:
i never said, lasgo/DHT/cascada, were cheese.
I think we should re-Tool this thread, and 'define' dance music:
now, we all know what the hell it is; but in 2009, is the
pitbull/reboot of nightcrawlers considered "dance" . . .
is the music choice channel, that plays . . .. steady-beat techno,
what they are hating on ? or . . . do the masses, 'hate' the
techno that is currently being released as 'dance remixes'
(because the artist: Pink) who has the studio album version is
the ONE and ONLY version, and it was ruined by 'the techno mix'
(ps: that is never the case), better yet... the artist would be kelly clarkson...lol
or,
does this info-entertaining post take a completely different turn, and
say the 'hater-nation' is focused on the history of excellent artists,
captain hollywood/2 unlimited(hits,only), C&C, snap, real mccoy,
fun factory, etc...
while most of us have fond memories, some do not ; that is fine...
but did that set up the failures of today ?
-
in perspective: if you were exposed to coolio,in 1996,
to the point of nausea, perhaps, you could be. . closed minded
of future songs by dre/emimen . . . b/c of the pre-existing condition
that you heard it all before ( and it is pretty clear that em/dre, have
a way different style, but not sound than 1996/coolio.).
also: consider this:
being involoved in the culture, as i type this, the song, cataract 2nite,
i have singing in my head...i enjoy it. but if i didnt KNOW and have
passion (for the best/damn genre.... : ) it would be frustrating to
identify w/ an artist/song, and not to start the whole face-less
(not to be confused w/ faithless) arguement, perhaps the 'hatin'
comes from . . . just not having a 'connection'
-sidebar,inquiry:
does songs like pitbull sampling (*obvious) previous hits, create
a spike in any interest in (the latest case), the c.1995 nightcrawlers
anthem "push the feelin' on" ( either on retro-throwback mix-shows),
or even a quick reference on rick dee's, saying if you like the saxophone
in his current song, goto itunes, and the group is nightcrawlers.....
hmm??
re:
pitbull, does he know he is sampling previous dance artist material,
or just have a producer who has a great ear for music ?
and who is "next" ( no peeking, if u have heard the song, via the full-length
album/itunes.store,etc) do not post - -
COMMENTARY:
i believe next song, will be benny benassi, 'satisifaction' hmm?
2Son said:
APPLAUSE! That's what I've been trying to say for the longest time! Nick, Neo11, pay attention to that quote above
The marketing thing is what we're trying to figure out somehow. But there is a lot within that has to be fixed in order for everything else to fall into place.
Tony Santiago said:2Son said:
APPLAUSE! That's what I've been trying to say for the longest time! Nick, Neo11, pay attention to that quote above
The marketing thing is what we're trying to figure out somehow. But there is a lot within that has to be fixed in order for everything else to fall into place.
Tony,
I was thinking deeply about this nearly 1.5 years ago. Even when listening to many of the dance stations, (whether they were the Energy's or Party's, etc..) the element missing seemed to be the education of dance music for the masses. If you are trying to lure new listeners to dance music, why not have information on the artists, dj's, vocalists, etc so that the new listeners can feel more "in touch" with who they are listening to? Let's get to know who these people are, where they come from, etc. I was even interested in displaying a section like this on my website, but alas the cost for continuing my own station was too much. In addition, we know that dance stations crank out new music faster than most people can keep up - so to the "average listener", this would seem very overwhelming for them to try to keep up with all the new artists, especially if they do not know who they are in the first place.
My friend was confused when the two "David Guetta" hits sound like different lead singers, he thought that David Guetta was the lead singer. It took a while for me to explain that he is a producer, not a singer.
-----------------------------------------------
and it's that very thing that will prevent dance 'artists' from ever properly reaching a CHR audience;
we discussed all this('stars',subject matter,etc) years ago ,here, and nothing has changed since then, really...
one or two token dance tracks at a time presented at CHR, never really amounting to anything;
dance was and is a novelty ,at best, in this decade,as far as the USA is concerned
-----------------------------------------------
and it's that very thing that will prevent dance 'artists' from ever properly reaching a CHR audience;
we discussed all this('stars',subject matter,etc) years ago ,here, and nothing has changed since then, really...
one or two token dance tracks at a time presented at CHR, never really amounting to anything;
dance was and is a novelty ,at best, in this decade,as far as the USA is concerned
- Status