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DaleGriffin
Guest
A group has sent a letter to advertisers complaining about "no progressive voices."
The advertisers basically scoffed.
Has this ever worked?
The advertisers basically scoffed.
Has this ever worked?
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How about specifics? What are you talking about?
If you mean, putting pressure on advertising agencies to not red-line certain formats, I can point to one area where it may be working -- the "no ethnic" format buying dictates seem to be breaking down, a little, thanks to a lot of heat from urban stations and their listeners.
If you mean, putting pressure on advertising agencies to not red-line certain formats, I can point to one area where it may be working -- the "no ethnic" format buying dictates seem to be breaking down, a little, thanks to a lot of heat from urban stations and their listeners.
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ABQTom
Guest
Dale -
I don't know what group you're referring to.
However, there is the group Non Stop Radio, a liberal activist trying to get liberal stations on the air. They take donations from listeners.
I don't subscribe to the philosophy of soliciting donations from listeners to get liberal stations on the air.
That's what religious broadcasters do.
Air America has paid programming. This sort of thing just makes it look bad for the rest of us in liberal talk who run everything with commercial revenue.
NPR and college stations with Amy Goodman run on donations.
Commercial AM radio runs on commercial revenue.
KGO news/talk 810 has many liberal hosts, some even arguably further to the left than Air America and Jones, and they've been #1 in the books forever.
KGO runs on commercials, not donations, and does great, due to their geniuses in management and sales - i.e. Swanson, Luckoff, and Amatorri.
http://www.nonstopradio.com/
I don't know what group you're referring to.
However, there is the group Non Stop Radio, a liberal activist trying to get liberal stations on the air. They take donations from listeners.
I don't subscribe to the philosophy of soliciting donations from listeners to get liberal stations on the air.
That's what religious broadcasters do.
Air America has paid programming. This sort of thing just makes it look bad for the rest of us in liberal talk who run everything with commercial revenue.
NPR and college stations with Amy Goodman run on donations.
Commercial AM radio runs on commercial revenue.
KGO news/talk 810 has many liberal hosts, some even arguably further to the left than Air America and Jones, and they've been #1 in the books forever.
KGO runs on commercials, not donations, and does great, due to their geniuses in management and sales - i.e. Swanson, Luckoff, and Amatorri.
http://www.nonstopradio.com/
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DaleGriffin
Guest
ABQTom said:
I 'dunno. Makes sense to me. Conservative Talk and Liberal Talk as practiced today seems to be just two more religions.
ABQTom said:
I think this is a natural response to consolidation and the hot-and-cold attitude toward progressive talk from the major chains. If we had a more competitive radio marketplace, commercial operators would step up to fill the void. But since a handful of executives call the shots for thousands of stations, competition has become constipated and response to audience wants is sluggish at best.
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ABQTom
Guest
Dale Jackson said:
From that web site, below are the goals of North Alabama Media Reform. They are missing the most important goal. Find advertising revenue to support progressive talk, like Clear Channel has done in Portland, Denver, and Albuquerque, Citadel/KGO/San Francisco, CBS Radio/KPTK 1090/Seattle, etc.
Liberal talk radio should be supported in the same way as conservative radio - by commercial revenue. In the long run, that actually is better for both sides, because it increases competition.
A competitive marketplace of ideas will produce more diversity of political viewpoints on shows than one where two formats (NPR and Air America) rely on donations. For example, where will a Libertarian who wants to advertise put his money? Where will a college recruiting engineering students put their money? Where will an organic plant nursery put their money?
NAMR Current Goals:
1) Get individual progressive talk radio programs onto local commercial radio stations.
2) Expand local radio and television airing of "Democracy Now" to every weekday – (currently Friday only).
3) Ensure more fair and accurate articles are in our local print publications.
4) Acquire public access television airtime on local cable companies' stations.
5) Bring "Air America" to a local commercial radio station in our area. (Update: Due to the recent announcement by Air America concerning their Chapter 11 filing, this project is currently on hold).
gr8oldies said:
It is interesting to see how each of us have approached this topic. It is like the fable of the blind men and the elephant.
We are actually talking about several topics:
*What is good political strategy for an interest group.
*What is good broadcasting from a sales point of view.
*What is good broadcasting from a "public interest and necessity" point of view.
*What is good broadcasting from a listeners point of view.
and probably others.
You made an interesting claim. Most small business owners conservative. I don't know that you can prove that. I don't know that I can disprove that.
This whole discussion takes the 'black or white... no shades of gray' concept. It is assumed that one is either conservative or one is liberal. How would all the small business owners who are down the middle, not claiming to be liberal or conservative run their radio stations if consolidation had not taken place?
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DaleGriffin
Guest
I appreciate the comments, this is how I responded to them-
Since you refuse to talk to a radio professional about how to make
your goal of commercial progressive talk radio work I have decided
to tell your group a few things.
1. Protests, organizing and boycott do not work unless you have a
big organization. You do not have this.
2. In today's real world you have zero percent chance of getting
progressive radio on the air in this area the way you are
doing it now. Let's look and see what you have accomplished out of
your goals:
(a) Get individual progressive talk radio programs onto local
commercial radio stations. - FAIL
(b) Expand local radio and television airing of "Democracy Now" to
every weekday – (currently Friday only). FAIL and you are paying for
something that no one listens to. Is this really accomplishing your
goal?
(c) Ensure more fair and accurate articles are in our local print
publications. - I don't know whether you accomplished this, the
editorial board of the Times seems to be a fairly liberal group.
(d) Acquire public access television airtime on local cable
companies' stations. - FAIL and a horrible idea
(e) Bring "Air America" to a local commercial radio station in our
area. (Update: Due to the recent announcement by Air America
concerning their Chapter 11 filing, this project is currently on
hold). - FAIL
3. Your goal should be to show that progressive talk radio is a
viable radio format. In order to do this the words "Air"
and "America" should never cross your lips; it has been an utter
failure even when attempted by the big bad guys.
4. In letters to advertisers of my radio station, which I appreciate
because I got to know many of them over this, you asked them to
pressure me to add programming. HELLO! They are already allocating
their advertising dollars to programming that is getting them
results. You do not screw with a golden cow.
5. You also need to remember locally most business owners buy
advertising on stations they like, us having good ratings is a good
bonus. Those advertisers are NOT your target.
Since you refuse to talk to a radio professional about how to make
your goal of commercial progressive talk radio work I have decided
to tell your group a few things.
1. Protests, organizing and boycott do not work unless you have a
big organization. You do not have this.
2. In today's real world you have zero percent chance of getting
progressive radio on the air in this area the way you are
doing it now. Let's look and see what you have accomplished out of
your goals:
(a) Get individual progressive talk radio programs onto local
commercial radio stations. - FAIL
(b) Expand local radio and television airing of "Democracy Now" to
every weekday – (currently Friday only). FAIL and you are paying for
something that no one listens to. Is this really accomplishing your
goal?
(c) Ensure more fair and accurate articles are in our local print
publications. - I don't know whether you accomplished this, the
editorial board of the Times seems to be a fairly liberal group.
(d) Acquire public access television airtime on local cable
companies' stations. - FAIL and a horrible idea
(e) Bring "Air America" to a local commercial radio station in our
area. (Update: Due to the recent announcement by Air America
concerning their Chapter 11 filing, this project is currently on
hold). - FAIL
3. Your goal should be to show that progressive talk radio is a
viable radio format. In order to do this the words "Air"
and "America" should never cross your lips; it has been an utter
failure even when attempted by the big bad guys.
4. In letters to advertisers of my radio station, which I appreciate
because I got to know many of them over this, you asked them to
pressure me to add programming. HELLO! They are already allocating
their advertising dollars to programming that is getting them
results. You do not screw with a golden cow.
5. You also need to remember locally most business owners buy
advertising on stations they like, us having good ratings is a good
bonus. Those advertisers are NOT your target.
Considering that most of the professionals in talk radio, and a majority in management, are conservatives to one degree or another (based on personal observation), probably the smartest move they made. A lot of talk radio bigwigs are emotionally invested in the failure of liberal talk radio (Daryl Parks).
Consolidation has accelerated the follow-the-leader pack-dog mentality of talk radio programmers, which seems to oppose anything that wouldn't interest an overage frat-boy type. Witness the forest of slammed doors that greeted Greenstone Media's logical attempt to put on a talk radio format aimed at 51 percent of the population (and the numbers show conservative talk skews male. Dr. Laura and Laura Ingraham are talking to the boys). Given the stone wall reception, the battering ram sounds like the better approach, especially in Alabama. Birmingham 1963-style activism appears to be a better strategy than waiting around for the megaprogrammers and their lackeys to retire or get pinkslipped.
If they're doing this, they're not running their business professionally. Assuming that their only potential customers are those who share their politics/tastes is profoundly shortsighted. Overcoming that objection is the duty of a professional salesperson.
These grassroots folks are responding to the blockage in the system that keeps consolidated radio from responding to those who want a wider selection of opinions. It wasn't so long ago that conservatives were banding together to carve out little half-hour stretches of talk radio on tiny religious stations. What these liberals are trying to do now isn't so different.
Don't be so sure. One guy -- according to the Washington Post -- knocked Bob Grant out of an award at R&R.
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DaleGriffin
Guest
My bad I tried to help them before (had them on my show, explained they needed a local paid weekend show to grow from and show it could make money) and they basically said... "you are conservative, hiss boo hiss" and went after my advertisers.smedge2006 said:
Gotta disagree here, this is not a civil rights issue, its radio. Dr. Laura and Ingraham make money that is why they are on. The stations greenstone got on all failed to do that.
The point is on the local level, especially talk radio, the personal taste is a big part, we all know this. They need to find those advertisers that won't advertise on talk radio because of their willingness to follow their personal tastes.
Not quite the same thing. Maybe the lesson here is how much money R&R is losing because of that decision.
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ABQTom
Guest
This came to my email box today from Non Stop radio. They are having their annual Dallas fundraiser. I tried for 3 months, without success, to convince a liberal talk host that he had to run his show primarily on a commercial revenue stream, not unpredictable donations. Why progressive hosts don't understand radio advertising I have no idea. Air America has sponsors paying for their programming.
X-Apparently-To: Tom
X-Loop: [email protected]
Content-Length: 527
Take Action and Win Prizes!
The Dallas Air America group is having its annual
fundraiser to get the
funds they need to operate in 2008. Go to the raffle
page now
(http://www.dallasairamerica.org/2008fundraiser.htm)
and donate to keep
this vibrant group that is dedicated to the future of
Progressive Talk
in North Texas going strong! Also, the prizes are
pretty nice, so why
are you still reading this? Go check it out!
http://www.dallasairamerica.org/2008fundraiser.htm
Yours in the Cause,
Aldous Tyler,
NonStop Radio
X-Apparently-To: Tom
X-Loop: [email protected]
Content-Length: 527
Take Action and Win Prizes!
The Dallas Air America group is having its annual
fundraiser to get the
funds they need to operate in 2008. Go to the raffle
page now
(http://www.dallasairamerica.org/2008fundraiser.htm)
and donate to keep
this vibrant group that is dedicated to the future of
Progressive Talk
in North Texas going strong! Also, the prizes are
pretty nice, so why
are you still reading this? Go check it out!
http://www.dallasairamerica.org/2008fundraiser.htm
Yours in the Cause,
Aldous Tyler,
NonStop Radio
You know who really doesn't understand radio advertising? It's the combos that put progressive talk on their weakest AM, and wouldn't try to sell it, even tried to UNSELL it, when clients ASKED about it.
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DaleGriffin
Guest
smedge2006 said:
Unsell it?
Business: We want progressive talk ads
Station: No
Really...
Seriously?
More like this...
Station: Hello, Supercombo Radio
Business: Yes, I heard you have a progressive talk station and I'd like to advertise on it...
Station: We have WHAT? Who? Hold on please....
(music on hold)
Station Salesperson: Hello
Business: Yes, I'm a business owner and I'd like to advertise on your progressive talk station.
Salesperson: What? No... see... we don't really push that... it's got a really small audience... and you can't hear it past the end of the block (and my commission on it sucks)... here you need to try our conservative talk station... and if you want liberals you can reach them through all our FM music stations...
At least one business person swears something like this happened to him in Columbus OH...
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DaleGriffin
Guest
smedge2006 said:
Honestly... To believe this you have to believe
you believe a recptionist had no clue what formats were running and that a salesperson had no interest in making money...
I call BS on that one.
S
SeanMGilbow
Guest
Dale Jackson said:
Sorry, Dale, this isn't BS. I spoke with a gentleman from Bernard Media, which is leasing the frequency to GM Gary Richards and the people behind making the station progressive talk. He told me the same thing when I visited the studios.
Bernard Media got the ownership rights to WVKO AM and FM in a bankruptcy hearing.
Just to give you an idea of how Clear Channel operated regarding the format flips:
My rep in Columbus, Jennifer Tonapi, was on pregnancy leave when the wheels were put in motion regarding AM 1230. She left the company shortly after her return.
And my rep in Akron, Brandon Tidd, was in New York receiving a major award at the time the decision was made to flip Radio Free Ohio.
Neither station was listed in the recent Arbitron numbers.
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DaleGriffin
Guest
Yes and that still doesn't make it so. No one in this industry, who is trying to succeed financially turns down revenue. There are sales people who hate rap or country who still sell it.Sean Gilbow said:
Yep.
So?
Dale Jackson said:
I have heard of this happening too from a few sources, and couldn't believe it myself. I was shocked. Ed Schultz even talked about it once, and relayed a few instances from several budding advertisers who contacted him directly to complain, after going nowhere with local Clear Channel-owned clusters.
Hard to believe any respectable account rep would not give clients what they want. That's just asinine and unprofessional. If the little progressive talk station is what they want, give it to them. Then try to get them to advertise on the sister stations. But leaving money of any kind on the table is just plain stupid.
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