Why Do Talk Stations Struggle in Sunbelt Markets?

[Gregg]

There are only a few Talk stations that finish in the Top 10 among the largest Sunbelt markets:

KFI Los Angeles and Riverside-San Bernadino
WSB Atlanta
KFYI Phoenix
WKAQ and WUNO Puerto Rico (Spanish Talk)

That's it. There are no top 10 Talk stations in Dallas, Houston, Miami, San Diego, Tampa, Charlotte, San Antonio, Las Vegas or Orlando. (Talk stations finish at #11 in Charlotte, Vegas and Orlando, although they need FM simulcasts to do it.)

I've asked this question before, noting that of the established CBS All-News stations, the two stations that struggle are BOTH in the Sunbelt: KRLD Dallas, #18, and KNX Los Angeles, #17. And till recently, some major Sunbelt cities had no All-News station: Houston, Atlanta, Miami, Phoenix, San Diego, Tampa. Now Houston and Atlanta have new FM All-News stations. They're still new but they're not exactly rocking the ratings either.

What is it about the Sunbelt that listeners don't seem to need much news, weather, traffic or talk? Sunbelt listeners just seem to only need music from their radios.

 

[NewsStud]

Please elaborate on what you mean by "Top Ten."

If you're talking about Arbitron 12+ ratings, or some other general, all-inclusive audience metric... then , yes. Spoken word formats, especially on AM Radio, don't do well. They historically have problems with attracting attention from younger listeners because they don't exist on FM. Those that do exist on FM don't necessarily get an automatic jump in the 12+ numbers. There are far more music stations than news, talk or sports stations in a given market. Their cut of the pie will be mathematically smaller.

A better indicator would how well the station does in the breakouts of different demographics. A talk or news PD cares less about the 12+ and much more about men, women or persons in a specific age group.

Aside from ratings, you also need to look at billing. Ratings don't always equal billing. And if the format is bringing in a lot of money, then some computations done by survey takers don't mean too much.

As for why the Sunbelt doesn't see the success with spoken word then way it occurs in, say, the north east or mid-Atlantic... I'd say, it's history. In New York City, WCBS has a heritage you don't have in other parts of country. Ditto for WINS, and WTOP in DC.

 

[radiobum]

Maybe they're too smart to listen to predictable right wing lies ?!

 

[w00t]

Isn't KFI one of the highest billing stations in the country now?

 

[FreddyE1977]

Maybe they're too smart to listen to predictable right wing lies ?!

Which accounts for the solid band of red on the electoral maps every four years. :

 

[smedge2006]

This should be phrased as two separate questions:

Why Do Talk Stations Struggle in Sunbelt Markets? and Why Do NEWS Stations Struggle in Sunbelt Markets?

Last answer first: News struggles in all markets outside the Top 10, and the only top 10 markets in the Sunbelt are LA, Dallas, Houston, and (recently) Atlanta.

Other than LA and Dallas, most Sunbelt markets came of age later, missing out on 50 kW allocations... meaning they didn't get the benefits of effective market coverage until FM news became a possibility. It's tough running an all-news format when you can't cover your market, especially during drive times.

NY, Chicago, Philadelphia, DC and LA all got all-news during the 60s when most listening was on AM and habits were easier to build. By the 70s when the FM migration was underway it was harder to assemble those huge cumes on which all news depends. It fell into disfavor until the PPM revealed its true power.

Many Sunbelt markets are composed of transplants with no connection to a city, its government, its heritage, its sports teams or anything but its weather. That's usually not a problem unless there's a hurricane. Hurricanes can make, or break, a news reputation.

Now to the talk question: Although talk is mostly ideologically conservative, it is culturally more of a Northeastern phenomenon. The first talk stations were in New York, Los Angeles, and St. Louis. Nearly all of the first generation of talkers, with the exception of Barry Farber, and most of the major hosts of today grew up in the Northeast or Midwest. Southerners' outward politeness and dislike of loud argument made it harder to cultivate callers and hosts. There was also the thorny matter of how to discuss racial issues. The first foothold in the Southeast for 24/7 news-talk was in Miami (WKAT,1970), populated with expatriate New Yorkers. Tampa and Atlanta had daytime-only talkers about three years before that. But outside of those regions, many Southern areas got their first exposure to talk radio in the form of talk shows on otherwise all-music stations, instead of all-talk radio.

Talk radio began to grow in certain Florida markets by the 80's, using a blue-collar approach pitting the working-class population against higher-income retirees who clogged the roads and stifled the quality of life for the locals.

Talk radio grew in the South after Limbaugh's arrival but not as much as you would think given the political tilt. One factor may be the large percentage of African-Americans in many Southern cities who have little use for conservative talk. Another may be that many of the southern markets have little or no local programming or information because the companies that own them consider them second-tier markets and fit only for syndication. Still another may be that since conservatism is already the dominant ideology, hosts who rail against "liberals" may be beating a dead (or nonexistent) horse in much of the South.

 

[Gregg]

>>>Please elaborate on what you mean by "Top Ten."<<<

I mean there are no Talk stations finishing in the top ten of their local ratings. A few years ago, nearly every market, Sunbelt or not, had a Talk station high in the ratings. Stations such as WBAP Dallas, KOGO San Diego, WFLA Tampa, KTRH Houston, KTAR Phoenix, WDBO Orlando, WOAI San Antonio, etc. were all highly rated, at or near the top. And it isn't a question about longevity. These stations have been doing Talk for a long, long time.

And it seems to be especially bad in the Sunbelt. Most northern markets have a couple of Talk or News stations in their top ten. Chicago has WGN and WBBM and sometimes WLS. Seattle has KIRO-FM and KOMO. Detroit has WWJ and WJR. Pittsburgh has KDKA and WPGB. But most Sunbelt markets have only music stations in their top ten.

And it isn't just that Talk stations are losing listeners because they're on AM. There are FM simulcasts for established Talk stations in Dallas, San Diego, Charlotte and Orlando. KTAR Phoenix gave up its AM signal for Sports and is only on FM now. Clear Channel set up FM Talk stations in Raleigh and Greensboro with Rush, Hannity, Beck, etc. In Birmingham, three AM Talk stations have full power FM simulcasts. Yet I can't think of a single Sunbelt market where an FM Talk station makes the Top 10.

In Dallas' latest ratings, you don't see a News or Talk station on the list till #18! (Both Talk WBAP and News KRLD are tied for #18.) Isn't that a shame?

 

[Gregg]

>>>Yet I can't think of a single Sunbelt market where an FM Talk station makes the Top 10.<<<

Just thought of couple. WWL New Orleans, WOKV Jacksonville and WRMG Tulsa have FM simulcasts and they're all highly rated in their markets. A few exceptions to the rule.

 

[recto101]

Please elaborate on what you mean by "Top Ten."

If you're talking about Arbitron 12+ ratings, or some other general, all-inclusive audience metric... then , yes. Spoken word formats, especially on AM Radio, don't do well. They historically have problems with attracting attention from younger listeners because they don't exist on FM. Those that do exist on FM don't necessarily get an automatic jump in the 12+ numbers. There are far more music stations than news, talk or sports stations in a given market. Their cut of the pie will be mathematically smaller.

A better indicator would how well the station does in the breakouts of different demographics. A talk or news PD cares less about the 12+ and much more about men, women or persons in a specific age group.

Aside from ratings, you also need to look at billing. Ratings don't always equal billing. And if the format is bringing in a lot of money, then some computations done by survey takers don't mean too much.

As for why the Sunbelt doesn't see the success with spoken word then way it occurs in, say, the north east or mid-Atlantic... I'd say, it's history. In New York City, WCBS has a heritage you don't have in other parts of country. Ditto for WINS, and WTOP in DC.

How about San Francisco they seem to have NPR Drive time News/Talk(KQED-FM) and KCBS All-News are within the top 5 in the PPM ratings in San Francisco. That market is mainly a market where the demographics are more informed, more moderates, and probably more registered independents.