Why do these kinds of spots continue?

[jfrancispastirchak]

My COL has about 8000 people, market rank roughly 160. I've worked in top 10 markets but found wanting to get there was better than actually being there. I have roots here and I can do without PPM and giant egos. As a lifelong Radio guy, small markets are more satisfying IMO.
Thank you all for your insights.

Similar insight here. While I never worked in a "major" market (1970's Albuquerque being the closest I came), I too found peace later with the comforts and endearing quality of small town radio.

One fact of life in rural markets: quirky clients insisting on recording their spots themselves, on TV & Radio. Often they made asses of themselves, but, "the check cleared", so management (often the owner him/herself) gave their blessings, albeit with concealed crossed fingers, praising their talent-starved performances.

Small town operators could never say NO to such clients, clueless though they were. Many rural merchants were well connected, even politically engaged, ie: school board members, city counselors, or relatives thereof. It was just the nature of the small town beast. We "jocks" simply did what we had to do; we held our noses, plugged in the cart, checked off the program log, and moved along. Still, I came to love small town radio!

 

[Ford]

One fact of life in rural markets: quirky clients insisting on recording their spots themselves, on TV & Radio. Often they made asses of themselves, but, "the check cleared", so management (often the owner him/herself) gave their blessings, albeit with concealed crossed fingers, praising their talent-starved performances.

That's not just rural markets. Clients in medium, large, and major markets love to hear themselves on the radio, too. One of the challenges I actually enjoy, depending on the "talent" of the client in question, is to get a better spot out of them. There are times when I hold my nose and say nothing while the sales person/management praises a terrible spot by a client, but if I see even a little potential, I'll coach them to put out a better spot. Just in the past few months I've recorded car dealers, lawyers, restauranteurs and even a carpet cleaning guy. And I'm in what some might consider a "major" market.

But I shouldn't have to do that, for the most part. At this level, you'd think sales people and/or agencies would be experienced enough to steer clients away from doing their own spots, or pumping out crap like the script I read yesterday. Yet rampant stupidity persists.

Not long after the screaming car dealer spot I'd produced was approved (surprise!), I got a script that read "stop by this weekend, February 16th and 17th." I told the sales person "you don't need to say the dates...this weekend is...well...this weekend." To which they replied "well the agency wants the dates in there."

Okay pal. I'll take care of it. :

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

One fact of life in rural markets: quirky clients insisting on recording their spots themselves, on TV & Radio. Often they made asses of themselves, but, "the check cleared", so management (often the owner him/herself) gave their blessings, albeit with concealed crossed fingers, praising their talent-starved performances.

That's not just rural markets. Clients in medium, large, and major markets love to hear themselves on the radio, too. One of the challenges I actually enjoy, depending on the "talent" of the client in question, is to get a better spot out of them. There are times when I hold my nose and say nothing while the sales person/management praises a terrible spot by a client, but if I see even a little potential, I'll coach them to put out a better spot. Just in the past few months I've recorded car dealers, lawyers, restauranteurs and even a carpet cleaning guy. And I'm in what some might consider a "major" market.

But I shouldn't have to do that, for the most part. At this level, you'd think sales people and/or agencies would be experienced enough to steer clients away from doing their own spots, or pumping out crap like the script I read yesterday. Yet rampant stupidity persists.

Not long after the screaming car dealer spot I'd produced was approved (surprise!), I got a script that read "stop by this weekend, February 16th and 17th." I told the sales person "you don't need to say the dates...this weekend is...well...this weekend." To which they replied "well the agency wants the dates in there."

Okay pal. I'll take care of it. :

Hold your nose, bite your tongue.

 

[frnkp2000]

NHRadio and Ford: I have felt your pain. Many times. There is no worse feeling for a production rat than when a sales weasel has a client in tow heading for your studio--and they proceed to record a spot that's handwritten on THREE pages of legal size paper. And, they think every word is important so they are reluctant to edit. And, they can't grasp the concept of speaking INTO THE MIC. And, they READ LIKE A THIRD GRADER! Frustrating? You bet! I'd make a sizeable wager that EVERY production person has been through this scenario! Solution: Do the best you can, and let the PD know! Those God-Awful spots have a way of getting "buried" in the stopsets. (We'd put a red "B" <for "Bury"> on the cart label "back in the day"--only the PD and the jocks knew what it meant!) The advantage is now that in the digital age, your work is reduced by leaps and bounds. Digital production= much less Maalox. I can't tell you how many miles of Ampex 456 I threw in the trash can in these situations....take after hopeless take....splice after splice...

Agencies? Yeah, they can be ridiculous. I've "cleaned up" glaring grammatical errors in agency-written copy, only to have it bounced back, "The agency wants it worded exactly." I am convinced that the copy people at the agencies are the idiot nephews/nieces of the CEO. Needless to say, THOSE spots earned a bright red "B" as well. Or in the case of the digital automation, the PD would take care of it. I'd even try to get someone else to voice it, so I wouldn't sound foolish.

The stopset is your kingdom, yes, but sometimes the old "circumstances beyond your control" happen too. (AKA "S***) Plug on, do the best you can, and only put your BEST work on your demo reel. A PD once told me years ago: "Nobody dies, it's only radio." And, he's RIGHT!

Here's hopin' I could make ya smile a bit tonight.

 

[frnkp2000]

Oh and the #1 most moronic thing I ever encountered on a piece of copy?

(SFX: fish)

I'm completely serious.

 

[leethalweapon]

Oh and the #1 most moronic thing I ever encountered on a piece of copy?

(SFX: fish)

I'm completely serious.

...and that sounds like???

 

[frnkp2000]

Oh and the #1 most moronic thing I ever encountered on a piece of copy?

(SFX: fish)

I'm completely serious.

...and that sounds like???

Sounds like a LOT of things! I solved the problem by mixing the SFX of a parked car, and an unplugged refrigerator. No one ever knew the difference!

 

[PirateJohnny]

As regards to radio advertising - sometimes things are just out of your control. For instance....

For years and years here in Phoenix we had a car dealer named Lou Grubb. His advertising was the epitome of quiet, informative and pleasant conversation. He didn't as much sell his product as he did himself and his dealership and you actually wanted to do business with him because he didn't shout or lie to you.

Unfortunately, his product was Chevrolets and I was never in the market for one of those so his ads fell on my deaf ears.

Now we have one of the loudest and most obnoxious ads running on TV here from Hyundai. Although I hate their ads beyond belief I recently bought a Hyundai because it got great universal reviews from the auto press.

Lou spent all that money to reach me in a mode that I truly respect but he couldn't make the sale because he was selling the "wrong" product. Hyundai pisses me off every time I hear their obnoxious screaming announcer but I love (and bought) their product.

Since your mind is made up about product choice and can not be swayed by advertising, you must be older than 54, if we are to believe advertising agencies.

 

[landtuna]

Since your mind is made up about product choice and can not be swayed by advertising, you must be older than 54, if we are to believe advertising agencies.

You completely missed my point (and one that I've tried making to DE over the years) and that is:

Older people CAN BE swayed by advertising but because they have more real life experience are likely to have opinions on products that younger people haven't yet developed. As DE mentions, this means that the cost per buyer is higher when older people are involved because it takes more effort, and cost, to convince them to buy.

However, I see more and more evidence this may be declining. My previous car was a Toyota Avalon - my first Toyota. I bought it based upon the reviews it got in the auto trade press and I wasn't disappointed. It wasn't heavily advertised at the time. My next car was a Hyundai Santa Fe - my first Hyundai and was bought for the same reason as was the Avalon. It also was not heavily advertised at the time but what advertising it did get was with respect to its outstanding safety rating. One year later I bought my current car, a Hyundai Genesis and once again it was the trade press that made me aware of the car and its very positive reviews. These were not commercials in the normal sense but in a way they were and when it comes time to buy again I will use those sources to pick my next car. The screaming commercials on radio and TV alienate me and I pay no attention to them. For people who do not yet have the seasoning or are looking to buy based upon price only they may work. For us oldsters, not so much.

My immediate neighbors are all over 50 and mostly empty nesters. They frequently buy new vehicles. Just recently I've noticed a new Volt in one driveway and a new Kia sedan in another - first such purchases for both owners. I'm pretty sure advertising played a part in both purchases.

Perhaps buying big ticket items are different than toothpaste the costs to reach these people does exceed the 20-somethings but it seems to be working.

 

[Chuck]

I think companies who sell big ticket items can do well with the "over 50" crowd. Very frequently they are already their customers. That includes fine dining, RV's, luxury automobiles, investment brokers, insurance and a lot more. We recently signed up a Kubota tractor dealer that also sells high end lawn and garden equipment. Brands like Honda, Yamaha and Stihl. Our "Geezer" demographic seems to work for them.

Speaking only for myself, I am sick and tired of buying lawnmowers, weed eaters, chain saws, generators, etc. that only last a year or two. I'd happily spend 50% more for something that actually worked reliably. I hate having to overhaul (or throw away) everything every spring. It seems I'm not alone. This sponsor is capitalizing on that. This is a great time of year to advertise "The last lawnmower you will ever need, from Kubota." (They typically last 10-15 years or more.)

There is a lot of money in the over 50 crowd. You may not get them to change their brand of toothpaste, but there is a very fertile field out there. It's amazing to me that it is ignored by most radio stations. Actually, I'm glad they are ignored. I own the two "geezer" stations in my market. I will be happy to take the sponsors that nobody else has bothered to ask.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Three years ago I went car shopping. I parked my 10 year old vehicle right in front of the showroom. (Having worked in the dealer industry at one time, I know that GOOD sales people watch the lot and they make note of what you get out of!)

And when the smiling, gregarious person who had the next "UP" greeted me, I had two standard lines: When it comes to cars and computers, I buy a new one once every 10 years... whether I need it or not! Line #2: I am well aware this may be the LAST car I every buy... so let's get it right.

Didn't take long to know whether you were dealing with someone who could talk your language and guide you to the right car. or if you were dealing with someone who wanted you out of his/her face NOW so they could run and use liberal amounts of hand sanitizer to get rid the of Geezer DNA from the hand-shake.

I did buy a car from a rep who understood the dynamics of the deal and he went out of his way to get us into something a bit better than I expected.... (he knew and understood the game). And I didn't see him running for the hand sanitizer when we drove out. ;D

I really wanted to drive down to a nearby dealership and parade the car past the guy who kept showing me the high-tech touch-screen radio which his generation knows is the most important feature of the car.

What kind of copy would you put on the radio to reach out to me... and what kind of programming would be on the station you choose for the schedule?

 

[landtuna]

What kind of copy would you put on the radio to reach out to me... and what kind of programming would be on the station you choose for the schedule?

That's easy. We had the guy right here in Phoenix up until a few years ago when he retired. Lou Grubb was his name and he owned a Chevrolet dealership for quite a number of years. His ads, both radio and TV, advertised, in a very low key, his personal morals for selling and that of his company. He said practically nothing about his cars, prices or credit terms. He was selling himself and AFAIK he was well respected in his dealings. I never bought anything from him because I am not a Chevy person but I would have if he'd sold something I wanted. His spots were mature and on the quiet side and were virtually unique among the many car dealers who like loud music and shouting to get you in the door. He didn't use dogs, horses or bulls as gimmicks and the one time I was on his lot (with a friend who was buying) his sales staff was courteous and listened carefully to my friend as to what he was in the market for.

I remember hearing his spots on KOOL-FM (my station of choice back then) which was Oldies/Classic Hits (whatever the correct name is) although he did advertise on others as well and also on TV.

Now, having said all that, there is another dealer here in town that advertises with a bull and leans heavily on his credit staff to sell cars. I swore I would never do business with him because I hated his selling style but.....I wanted a very limited production car in the worst way and he was the only game in town so I swallowed hard and went out to see him and was impressed. His staff was also genuinely interested, was knowledgeable about the vehicle, didn't BS me about the deal and delivered the car on time, full of gas at the agreed price. The only thing they did was the familiar upselling when it came time to sign the paperwork but a firm "no" was all it took to bypass all that.

So I guess the ads can be somewhat disconnected from the dealership although I much prefer the quieter approach personally. I have walked away from several buys because of pushy, ignorant or discourteous sales people.

 

[BobSacamano]

Wow four pages and no mentions of "the wizard of ads" (yes I'm being sarcastic)...

Actually here in Baltimore, I saw a spot today that made me want to congratulate the client..

Like many markets we have "flooring wars" with the airwaves being bombarded with spots from Empire, Luna, and the God-awful locally produced Next-day floors..
the ad I saw for Bode floors was basically the client, in a calm & dignified manner calling out his competitors, and their claims of outrageous savings etc..nothing spectacular, but well produced, and a breath of fresh air from the same old-same old

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

Life-Style Lifts w/ Debbie Boone's signature hit You Light Up My Life, and Debbie herself endorsing. Getting old. So is Debbie. So's her dad...

Sorry, has Life-Style already been mentioned?

 

[JeffM]

I've moved my comment to this thread from "sales"

Radio in this market, music or talk, has become a car-based life form. At least 80% of the local spots are auto dealers, new and used; and almost all with the shouting-pitchman approach, each dealer trying to outscream the other. I can't help thinking this will eventually prove counterproductive for both clients and stations, and may in fact backfire on both. Also curious as why this is happening and suspect at least some salespeople are only going after "low hanging fruit;" in other words, a salesman who golfs with Joe Plaidpants every week knows he can make his quota just by selling to his ol' buddy. Local ads in other usual categories (restaurants, drugstores, gas stations, hardware/lumber, etc.) are comparatively rare; and local placement by national accounts almost non-existent (except for per-inquiry stuff.) How's things where you are?

One local dealer's ads always seem to involve Bill Clinton arguing with Arnold Schwarzenegger because those are apparently the only two voice impressions their "talent" knows how to do. Just this morning I heard spots from two different dealers using the same (LOUD!) music bed. Please, it's tough enough to tell them apart already!!

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I've moved my comment to this thread from "sales"

Radio in this market, music or talk, has become a car-based life form. At least 80% of the local spots are auto dealers, new and used; and almost all with the shouting-pitchman approach, each dealer trying to outscream the other.

This could be a very interesting sub-topic for this thread. Through the years, car dealers have been "an interesting breed of animals." Today where business school techniques of the MBA crowd have made inroads even further down the business food chain, some of today's car dealers are quite sophisticated in their management.

But, back to the traditional-through-the-years guys. In some towns you will find that car managers gather now and then at certain watering holes to talk trash, talk gossip, talk car business, and chase women. And like any group of guys gathering in their favorite tavern, one-upsmanship and bragging rights come into play. A group of car dealers in a market can become so focused on limiting their view to what they observe during the "happy hour management sessions" that advertising trends like you described can happen.

 

[bturner]

I have read this thread from post one. I have been behind the microphone and in programming, then forced to sales. Now I'm a GM. I agree, the spot is poor but none of us are in the business to do anything other than what the client insists on with his money.

You say the spot will never work and imply we'll lose another radio customers. I say you're crazy. Nobody knows where their sales come from. Case in point: a new boat rental opens up. They advertise in a fishing magazine on the page announcing a fishing tournament at the lake where he rents boats. We run payday weekend spots that sure weren't 10s but probably 7 or 8 on the scale. His results were the Yellow Pages and Newspaper gave him a successful season. There's just one problem: he was too new to be in the phone book and he never placed an ad in the paper. Luckily he knew most of his business came from the ad in the targeted magazine, then maybe radio nd people simply finding him by accident.

You can call me what you want as a salesperson but you don't have a clue. We really try to get people to do what we feel is their very best and, believe it or not, at a price they can easily afford. But when you walk in to a car dealer and say that won't work, they say, fine, I'll spend on your competitor and don't let the door hit you on the way out. You try to gently persuade and the stronger egos prevail. Does it work? Sure it does. For their lousy ad not to work means they have to admit failure. And a client that writes their own spot cab hardly fit their head through the door, so they never fail if even in their own mind. And what you might not have considered, salespeople have goals they have to meet or you lose your job and sometimes their boss makes them take the order and not make waves. To fail to take the order when the boss says to is akin to suggesting a place the PD can go followed by some sign language. You can bet your boss knows who is advertising on the competitors and you'll have a little meeting on why you lost the buy if you refused to accept the ad with a comment like 'you're costing me money, not making me money'.

I feel for copywriters and production wizards who turn out gold, putting their heart and soul in a spot that is so good it could win awards only to have the salesperson say, "the client loved it but I made a little mistake, it's Pyle and Driver, not Pyle Driver. Sorry, my mistake", or they liked it but let's take out this and add this and by 7 different corrections you are glad you don't have an assault rifle in your hands. Where's my antacids.

I also know the feeling of swallowing hard and saying 'whatever you want, dear client' (mumbling) because we won't meet payroll without that fat check you're writing.

And I know how you see all your listeners cringe and see them turning the dial.

I wish I had an answer of how we get people to pay us to take our best shot for them. It sure would make life easier for all of us and we could actually say, we did everything we could for that client's continued success. If only.

Let me ask this: Make yourself a car salesman. A customer walks in and wants to buy a Prius. You sized them up and know they won't be happy with a Prius. You try to persuade them. Finally the customer says 'You sell me a Prius right now or I'm going to that other Toyota dealer and buying one'. What would you do if you were the salesman? Would you sell the Prius or walk away from the sale?