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Why do we keep arguing about the ad agencies?

K

KMRichards

Guest
I have noticed an unfortunate habit among some posters on this board of posting something along the lines of "the ad agencies are wrong to not buy Oldies" every time the discussion turns to demographics and potential revenue.

Everyone who takes that position conveniently ignores what is said time and time again, which is that the ad agencies and the agency buyers are <u>not</u> the ones who are biased against 55+ audiences. The advertisers themselves (who are the ad agencies' customers) are the ones who tell the agencies what age groups they want to market to. If an advertiser only wants 25-49 men, the agency goes out and negotiates a rate with the stations that have the highest amounts of 25-49 male listeners, <u>regardless of format</u>.

Although there is always going to be a small number of younger listeners who like Oldies, they are the minority of the listeners to any traditional Oldies station. The Arbitron breakouts prove this time and time again. And since the agencies go after the stations with the higher percentage of younger listeners, <u>at the advertisers' direction</u>, there is only one way to get agency buys: Tailor the playlist so that the only 50s-60s songs that get played are ones that do not drive away younger listeners, and concentrate on music that was popular when the younger demos were in high school and college (70s-80s).

I am boldfacing this next line because it is the critical point.

Only if the ad agencies are instructed to buy stations with older demographics will a traditional Oldies station get that business.

Rather than criticize the ad agencies, how about some strategies to convince the advertisers that this is a desirable demo?<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
> I have noticed an unfortunate habit among some posters on
> this board of posting something along the lines of "the ad
> agencies are wrong to not buy Oldies" every time the
> discussion turns to demographics and potential revenue.
>
> Everyone who takes that position conveniently ignores what
> is said time and time again, which is that the ad agencies
> and the agency buyers are not the ones who are biased
> against 55+ audiences. The advertisers themselves (who are
> the ad agencies' customers) are the ones who tell the
> agencies what age groups they want to market to. If an
> advertiser only wants 25-49 men, the agency goes out and
> negotiates a rate with the stations that have the highest
> amounts of 25-49 male listeners, regardless of format.
>
> Although there is always going to be a small number of
> younger listeners who like Oldies, they are the minority of
> the listeners to any traditional Oldies station. The
> Arbitron breakouts prove this time and time again. And
> since the agencies go after the stations with the higher
> percentage of younger listeners, at the advertisers'
> direction, there is only one way to get agency buys: Tailor
> the playlist so that the only 50s-60s songs that get played
> are ones that do not drive away younger listeners, and
> concentrate on music that was popular when the younger demos
> were in high school and college (70s-80s).
>
> I am boldfacing this next line because it is the critical
> point.
>
> Only if the ad agencies are instructed to buy stations with
> older demographics will a traditional Oldies station get
> that business.
>
> Rather than criticize the ad agencies, how about some
> strategies to convince the advertisers that this is a
> desirable demo?
>
You are absolutely correct in what you say here. It is the fault of the advertisers not to realize the gold mine out there for older demos. The country is getting older....age wise...but not necessary attitude wise. A 55 year old today is alot hipper than maybe one from 20 years ago. THat should also be considered when planning campaigns.
 
Why do we keep arguing about the advertisers?

You seem to suggest that product and brand marketing people are "biased" in their selection of target demographic segments - or at least have no real basis for their choices.

Marketers research consumer purchase behavior even more than radio stations measure audience listening behavior. They know who (what kinds of people) buy what, where they live, what they listen to, how much they buy and how often. They also identify heavy users, early adopters and other key or influential segments. Advertising is placed for the greatest return on investment.

It's not that older consumers don't buy certain products or even have established brand loyalty that make them resistant to advertising. It's that as retirees or empty nesters they buy far less of many of the consumer products typically advertised on radio. They also tend to be late adopters of new products.

They were having this same arguement about Adult Standards (pre-boomer Oldies) a few years ago. A few years from now they will have it about classic hits (post-boomer Oldies).

It's over.

>
> Everyone who takes that position conveniently ignores what
> is said time and time again, which is that the ad agencies
> and the agency buyers are not the ones who are biased
> against 55+ audiences. The advertisers themselves (who are
> the ad agencies' customers) are the ones who tell the
> agencies what age groups they want to market to. If an
> advertiser only wants 25-49 men, the agency goes out and
> negotiates a rate with the stations that have the highest
> amounts of 25-49 male listeners, regardless of format.
>
> Rather than criticize the ad agencies, how about some
> strategies to convince the advertisers that this is a
> desirable demo?
>
 
Re: Why do we keep arguing about the advertisers?

> You seem to suggest that product and brand marketing people
> are "biased" in their selection of target demographic
> segments - or at least have no real basis for their choices.

Because they are. Even if that bias results from poorly done research or poor evaluation of well done research.

> Marketers research consumer purchase behavior even more than
> radio stations measure audience listening behavior. They
> know who (what kinds of people) buy what, where they live,
> what they listen to, how much they buy and how often. They
> also identify heavy users, early adopters and other key or
> influential segments. Advertising is placed for the
> greatest return on investment.

That doesn't mean the data always shows impartiality. Biases can be introduced in the research process. (I know, I spent some time in market research when taking a hiatus from radio.)

> It's not that older consumers don't buy certain products or
> even have established brand loyalty that make them resistant
> to advertising. It's that as retirees or empty nesters they
> buy far less of many of the consumer products typically
> advertised on radio. They also tend to be late adopters of
> new products.

There was an article in the Dallas Morning News that was reprinted in the Daily News and the Ventura County Star a couple of days ago that indicates a change in that philosophy.

Here is a key section:
Though marketers still covet the 18-to-49 age group in this youth-obsessed culture, a growing number of companies realize that fifty-something consumers offer a lucrative business opportunity they can't afford to overlook.

"Until now, companies have either ignored the fifty-something crowd or lumped it into the 'senior' market," said Matt Thornhill, president of the Boomer Project, a consulting firm in Richmond, Va. "Neither approach will work with boomers."

There are too many boomers, with too much money, for marketers to discount them.

Here is the link to the article at the Dallas Morning News website. I suggest you read it before making any more proclamations about the fixed buying habits of consumers over 50.

http://news.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=us/3-0&fp=43c5e8567f7ef85b&ei=53rFQ8uaIo2E6AHA7qiACA&url=http%3A//www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/121105dnbusboomertising.29c7e45.html&cid=0<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Why

Because that would take a lot of work, time and vision. Most GMs and Programmers have neither the patience nor the passion to put that kind of effort into it, especially since so many at the help don't get what made Oldies a fun and profitable format in the first place.

Oldies Programmers rode the tide for too many years without doing anything to grow their format. Had they gently evolved the music and presentation all along, they wouldn't be in this situation (and now it's too late for most to recover).

> I have noticed an unfortunate habit among some posters on
> this board of posting something along the lines of "the ad
> agencies are wrong to not buy Oldies" every time the
> discussion turns to demographics and potential revenue.
>
> Everyone who takes that position conveniently ignores what
> is said time and time again, which is that the ad agencies
> and the agency buyers are not the ones who are biased
> against 55+ audiences. The advertisers themselves (who are
> the ad agencies' customers) are the ones who tell the
> agencies what age groups they want to market to. If an
> advertiser only wants 25-49 men, the agency goes out and
> negotiates a rate with the stations that have the highest
> amounts of 25-49 male listeners, regardless of format.
>
> Although there is always going to be a small number of
> younger listeners who like Oldies, they are the minority of
> the listeners to any traditional Oldies station. The
> Arbitron breakouts prove this time and time again. And
> since the agencies go after the stations with the higher
> percentage of younger listeners, at the advertisers'
> direction, there is only one way to get agency buys: Tailor
> the playlist so that the only 50s-60s songs that get played
> are ones that do not drive away younger listeners, and
> concentrate on music that was popular when the younger demos
> were in high school and college (70s-80s).
>
> I am boldfacing this next line because it is the critical
> point.
>
> Only if the ad agencies are instructed to buy stations with
> older demographics will a traditional Oldies station get
> that business.
>
> Rather than criticize the ad agencies, how about some
> strategies to convince the advertisers that this is a
> desirable demo?
>
 
Re: Why do we keep arguing about the advertisers?

And again, as others have said, when there is sufficient advertiser demand for 55+, there will be formats aimed at 55+...but, that doesn't mean every boomer listens to oldies. Direct mail, TV and other forms of advertising may well work better. Would anyone really want to listen to an oldies station..killer songs, jingles, and jocks only to have aevery commercial break be for buying retirement property in Tennesee and other "senior/you're getting older" products?<P ID="signature">______________
Have a Happy New Year!
http://www.thebig8.net/have_a_happy_new_year_with_cklw.mp3</P>
 
That "Depends" ?

You might just be on to something there :)

> Would anyone really want to listen to an oldies
> station..killer songs, jingles, and jocks only to have
> aevery commercial break be for buying retirement property in
> Tennesee and other "senior/you're getting older" products?
>
 
Re: Why do we keep arguing about the advertisers?

> And again, as others have said, when there is sufficient
> advertiser demand for 55+, there will be formats aimed at
> 55+...but, that doesn't mean every boomer listens to oldies.

I never claimed that any one format would be the only 55+ appeal format, only that if advertisers start directing ad agencies to buy stations with 55+ audiences, the formats on those stations would be in less danger of extinction.

My primary point remains: It is not the local sales staffs or the ad agency buyers who are to blame for 55+ being an unsaleable demo. It is the advertisers themselves, and it is becoming obvious that their minds need changing.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: Why do we keep arguing about the advertisers?

>
> My primary point remains: It is not the local sales staffs
> or the ad agency buyers who are to blame for 55+ being an
> unsaleable demo. It is the advertisers themselves, and it
> is becoming obvious that their minds need changing.
>

I don't think anyone will argue with that, and as the boomers increasingly age out of the "money demo", I'd guess that mindset will change somewhat. We're not our parents. The big difference from an advertising basis is that as you get older you're less likely to throw money away on the latest fad "here today gone tomorrow" product or fashion.
 
Re: Why do we keep arguing about the advertisers?

There is a point where a person pretty much has all of their "stuff". That's a problem when justifying ad dollars.<P ID="signature">______________
Have a Happy New Year!
http://www.thebig8.net/have_a_happy_new_year_with_cklw.mp3</P>
 
K.M. Richards said:
I have noticed an unfortunate habit among some posters on this board of posting something along the lines of "the ad agencies are wrong to not buy Oldies" every time the discussion turns to demographics and potential revenue.

Everyone who takes that position conveniently ignores what is said time and time again, which is that the ad agencies and the agency buyers are <u>not</u> the ones who are biased against 55+ audiences. The advertisers themselves (who are the ad agencies' customers) are the ones who tell the agencies what age groups they want to market to. If an advertiser only wants 25-49 men, the agency goes out and negotiates a rate with the stations that have the highest amounts of 25-49 male listeners, <u>regardless of format</u>.

Although there is always going to be a small number of younger listeners who like Oldies, they are the minority of the listeners to any traditional Oldies station. The Arbitron breakouts prove this time and time again. And since the agencies go after the stations with the higher percentage of younger listeners, <u>at the advertisers' direction</u>, there is only one way to get agency buys: Tailor the playlist so that the only 50s-60s songs that get played are ones that do not drive away younger listeners, and concentrate on music that was popular when the younger demos were in high school and college (70s-80s).

I am boldfacing this next line because it is the critical point.

<b>Only if the ad agencies are instructed to buy stations with older demographics will a traditional Oldies station get that business.</b>

Rather than criticize the ad agencies, how about some strategies to convince the advertisers that this is a desirable demo?<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
Click to expand...

We sure can take on those cretins who hold radio by the whip. Are you so thin-skinned that you can't tolerate anyone who dares to criticize those losers?

I recently received an email from an oldies station programmer. I asked him to play more 50s and early 60s.
He told me he was risking his station by playing the few early 60s he plays because the ad men have the industry by the throat!

Pretty soon other formats will disappear because radio doesn't have the guts to show some independence and do what's right with "broad" casting.
 
doug said:
We sure can take on those cretins who hold radio by the whip. Are you so thin-skinned that you can't tolerate anyone who dares to criticize those losers?

I recently received an email from an oldies station programmer. I asked him to play more 50s and early 60s.
He told me he was risking his station by playing the few early 60s he plays because the ad men have the industry by the throat!

Pretty soon other formats will disappear because radio doesn't have the guts to show some independence and do what's right with "broad" casting.
Click to expand...

Except that you consistently have it wrong! It is not the agencies, who are just intermediaries for the clients and the marketing departments at the clients who determine the target demos.

Advertiser's VP of Marketing "Our product was designed from scratch for 25-44 men, right to the packaging. Do you have creative success against this demo?"
Agency AE: "We have done many similarly targeted campaigns. They are on our demo reel!"

Advertiser's VP of Marketing: "To get the account, do a sample campaign aginst Men 25-44 for our product, and give us a sample media buy to reach them."
Agency AE: "Yes, sir. We will present it next week."
 
The Other Side ...My AM Oldies Station Sales Exe To A Car Dealer....Consider Us for your Over All Marketing Plan.................

I like your station personally but we have Marketing people I will tell them to try you

Thanks because they say we are NOT your demo.

Marketing Person against his will puts some ads on our station.................That weekend they sell 4 cars traced back to people who said they heard about them on our station......

GM of Car Dealer instructs Marketing Man to Signa "small" year long deal to advertise with US...

Marketing man to our sales person NEVER ever go over My Head

Our Sales Person But I wanted you to see that we can sell cars for your client

Marketing Man I do Not Care you are not our Demo

But those 4 cars you sold has paid for 3 months of Ads YOU lose Noathing

I do not care you are not my 25-44 demo

True But it was 4 50 + parents that bought cars for their 20 somthing Kids!

I said Never go to my client directly again NOW I am STUCK having to place ads on your god forsaken oldies station............

One Year Later Our sales exe is now Marketing Director for the car dealer he spends more money on our station and sells even more cars traced back to US

POINT of The Story Baby Boomers have lots of $ to spend and they Listen to oldies stations
The station I work for Will post a nice profit, I get a raise & I can hire some more JOCKS

ALL while Clear Channel sells and I have lots of clear channel resumes on my desk
 
bobeeboxer said:
The Other Side ...My AM Oldies Station Sales Exe To A Car Dealer....Consider Us for your Over All Marketing Plan.................

I like your station personally but we have Marketing people I will tell them to try you
Click to expand...

Fact one: you are describing a direct account, not an agency one.

Oldies and even standards can exist in markets that are not agency driven...smaller ones and suburban stations, by selling direct.

Fact two: calling on an agency account directly will get you blacklisted unless you got permission first.
 
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