Why does Clear Channel's L.A. Cluster Sound Sooooo Bad?

[SuperRadioFan]

With all due respect to Bryan Simmons and Archer, they each have financial reasons to praise Stella.

How so? Archer doesn't work for Clear Channel anymore, Bryan is back though.
But I agree about the playlist ... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[StopWhining]

With all due respect to Bryan Simmons and Archer, they each have financial reasons to praise Stella.

How so? Archer doesn't work for Clear Channel anymore, Bryan is back though.
But I agree about the playlist ... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

No Archer doesn't work for them, but I would imagine he might want to. And he certainly SHOULD be working for them. Letting him get away was one of many, many key mistakes they made. Archer is a great talent and should be included if and when they fix KBIG.

 

[hnglkjss]

With all due respect to Bryan Simmons and Archer, they each have financial reasons to praise Stella. Both came forward to say how wonderful Stella is as a person, which I think is great, but I am talking about Stella the Program Director.

Archer's not with CC anymore, and his comments were about her as a programmer.

 

[StopWhining]

With all due respect to Bryan Simmons and Archer, they each have financial reasons to praise Stella. Both came forward to say how wonderful Stella is as a person, which I think is great, but I am talking about Stella the Program Director.

Archer's not with CC anymore, and his comments were about her as a programmer.

I never said he was still with CC, Einstein. I said he might want to be again one day, so he is not going to burn any bridges. That could be considered a financial reason.

Clear Channel SHOULD hire Archer back and, this time, treat him with the respect he deserves.

 

[calguy]

Clear Channel SHOULD hire Archer back and, this time, treat him with the respect he deserves.

That's the first positive thing I've seen you write and the smartest. Archer should have been the PD long ago.

 

[ajhenderson]

Never said ratings mean nothing, however, if you read the subject line above...it says NOTHING about them. Stick to the point.

Curiously, the only people who are *supporting* Clear Channel in this thread are on their payroll.

Again, the question is WHY DOES CLEAR CHANNEL'S L.A. CLUSTER SOUND SOOOOOO BAD?

I am not on CC's payroll nor even in the market, but KFI sounds great. How exactly is it predictable? Because you can predict what Dr. Laura will say to the next caller? The imaging is perhaps the best among all N/Ts nationally, their billboards (those I see when in LA 2-3x/mo) are funny, and they have a very good news department, light years ahead of KABC or, ugh, the non-news department at KRLA (read: Metro). Plus, they're among the highest billers in the market and nationally. Plus, they place 3rd of 5 (formerly 6) talk stations in Palm Springs!

Oh, and about working with Wall Street... how about KFI's morning show, with not that far from 1,000,000 million weekly cume? How many stations make any kind of effort to this extent? In a market this fragmented and with so many people who don't even understand a word Bill Handel says, what does that say about the station?

 

[Marv-L.A.]

Bryan Simmons's comments are VERY right-on-the-money. Ms. Schwartz earned her current PD slot by learning from Jhani Kaye, who made KOST arguably the most-copied radio station in America, and a MAJOR cash cow for CC.

The format is constantly gaining new listeners; a SUPERB article on AC powerhouse WBMX in Boston marking that station's TWENTY-FIVE year anniversary in the format (Jan. 6, 2007) in a recent issue of R&R brought up the point that the AC format is structed to appeal to women between 25-54, and with 24-year old women entering the fomrta's target demo year, it's up to the PD to keep the station as contemporary as possible while continuing to add new listeners.

AC is NOT a format for those of you thirsting for new music, and since the percentage of music which AC and CHR/Pop formatted stations share has NEVER been lower (another recent article in R&R pointed this out), while AC and Country stations DO share LOTS of music and listeners, Ms. Schawrtz MUST be commended for continuing to build on the legacy which KOST enjoys thanks to Mr. Kaye's efforts as a format trailblazer and pioneer.

If memory serves, KOST will be marking THEIR twenty-five year anniversary this coming October, and you can certainly bet that there will be ANOTHER scintillating article on KOST's anniversary in R&R then; I'm looking forward to it, as well as comments from Simmons, Schwartz, Kaye, morning superstars Mark & Kim, & midday star Mike Sakallereides, who refused to allow his bosses to change his last name ( he's Greek) for on air-purposes.

Thumbs-up to him, and everybody at a phenomenally successful and VERY well-respected radio station.

KOST is every bit as important of a pioneering radio station which went on to achieve NATIONAL acclaim as KHJ in 1965, KRTH in 1972, or KTWV in 1987 for any other longtime LA residents and radio fans such as myself.

 

[StopWhining]

<<Ms. Schwartz earned her current PD slot by learning from Jhani Kaye, whomade KOST arguably the most-copied radio station in America>>

TRANSLATION: So bland and unoriginal, it can be plugged into any city in the country. Yet another reason CC's cluster sounds like a bowl of vanilla ice cream with no toppings.


<<and a MAJOR cash cow for CC.>>

This thread is about WHY CLEAR CHANNEL'S L.A. CLUSTER SOUNDS SOOOOOOOO BAD, not revenue. We all know $$ is all CC cares about, so there's no debating that.


<<The format is constantly gaining new listeners>>

Only because more people are getting older and moving into the demo. For that matter, the only time KOST builds and holds a bigger audience is when they switch to Christmas music. So what does that say about KOST if the format is gaining new listeners nationwide, but their audience is flat? Tells me they don't have the best programmers at the helm...which againbegs the question, Stella Schwartz...famous for being famous?


<<AC is NOT a format for those of you thirsting for new music>>

No one said it was. However, that doesn't mean people want to hear Gloria Estefan's "Anything For You" or Genesis' "Hold On My Heart" every day for the rest of their lives, which is their fate if they listen to KOST 103.


<<If memory serves, KOST will be marking THEIR twenty-five year anniversary this coming October>>

This means nothing. For that matter, KIIS is about the same age, and the call letters are the only thing left from that station's glory days. KIIS used to be an institution...every one of their jocks was a real personality...now the average listener can't even name anyone on the station except Seacrest. And even then, good luck finding ANYONE who tunes in to hear Ryan. They tune in DESPITE him. KIIS could go jockless in the morning, play more music, and pull in the same numbers. And don't even get me started on Seacrest's team. What a tired joke. Ellen K. sounds every bit her 45-years, and Commander Chuck couldn't sound more bored if he was on valium. Producer Dennis Clark is a very good music programmer, but a lousy morning show producer. Yet another example of Clear Channel hiring the wrong person for the job.


<<morning superstars Mark & Kim, & midday star Mike Sakallereides>>

Superstars?!? HA!! That is for to laugh...


<<KOST is every bit as important of a pioneering radio station which went on to achieve NATIONAL acclaim as KHJ in 1965, KRTH in 1972, or KTWV in 1987>>

Wow, don't even know where to start correcting you on that one. So tell me, which division of Clear Channel do you, did you or are you hoping to work for?


Now, let's get back to the question: WHY DOES CLEAR CHANNEL'S L.A. CLUSTER SOUND SOOOOOOO BAD? And, you decide...Stella Schwartz, famous for being famous?

 

[briancraig]

<<KOST is every bit as important of a pioneering radio station which went on to achieve NATIONAL acclaim as KHJ in 1965, KRTH in 1972, or KTWV in 1987>>

Let's not go that far. While KOST has been a huge success over the last 25 years, I don't think it is every bit as important as KHJ in 1965.

Ron Jacobs and Bill Drake at KHJ completely changed the sound of top 40 and contemporary radio.

The basic sound of KOST had already been done in Chicago, Washington, Memphis etc.

 

[sfpd1]

These type of messages are rampant among all the boards regarding the "sound" of radio today versus the past. Unfortunately for radiophiles, the business of the radio-business has taken precedence, and has created less compelling radio across the board. These are the facts among ALL corporate-owned stations, even the smaller corps. like Entercom and Citadel. Without money as a motivating factor, personalities are more prone to let the music be the bigger star than themselves. Without money, the station can't run 'larger than life' promos, contests, etc.

The original poster is clearly not in the demo of what CCU is targeting: primarily 25-54F, secondary 18-34F

Before over-reacting, let's look at the aspects of why this holds true:

1. aside from KIIS and KYSR, the 25-54F demo listens passively, and fresh-new music is not what they listen to terrestrial radio for. KOST and KBIG are listen-at-work/soccer mom radio stations. Does this mean that there can't be creative and compelling jocks? Absolutely not. The 25-54F demo respond well to flyaways, free cars and cash, but economics are a huge factor. Keep in mind, the only demo, who counts in auditorium tests, are 25-54F. Every other demo is an added benefit. KOST and KBIG are doing respectably well for the budgets they have and the music mix is agreeable to the demo.

2. KIIS-FM- the original poster claims that a supposed-talking head with a 45 year old female side-kick is a poor morning show with uncompelling content. Sorry, but Rick Dees wasn't cutting it by ranking in the lower top 10 for the 18-34F and 25-54F demos. The 25-54F and 18-34F demos like Seacrest. In fact it is the win in the 25-54F demo which took KIIS by surprise. Why is this show agreeable to these demos? a) a plain-vanilla non-offensive likeable host in Seacrest is what moms like b) and more important, is the relationship discussions which take place during the show. Their topics appeal to women across the board. People forget that Seacrest had stellar numbers in PM drive for KYSR with the same relationship talk. The perception is females identify with him, almost treating him like either their clueless male friend, their "easy to talk to" gay male friend, OR both aspects of these personalities which he displays on a daily basis. His Ryan's Roses bit is clearly a bit done across the country, but is one of the most popular because females love it. It's the aforementioned reasons which enable Ellen K. to fit in with the program. The voice of agreement, a married woman in the 25-54 demo, and veteran personality of the station make her the most obvious fit. If they brought over Seacrest's previous sidekick, Lisa Foxx, they would have had to rebuild from the bottom. Keeping Ellen made the transition from Dees to Seacrest a little easier to stomach for the 25-54F contingent. BTW, women love celebrity gossip. That's why every morning show of all formats do it. Will Ellen K last much longer? Perhaps for 2-3 years, but I agree with the original poster, that she will soon be too old for the station. Stranger things have happened, however. Regarding the overall sound of the station, let's keep in mind one glaring characteristic: WHO IS GOING TO FILL OUT THE ARBITRON? The 12-24F and even some 18-34F spend more time on-line and find new music through other mediums besides terrestrial radio. This number is increasing every year. WHO IS GOING TO FILL OUT THE ARBITRON? KIIS has to cater to the people left-over, who aren't online as much and less pro-active in finding new music. (This holds true for KYSR.) More people in the younger demos are more likely to live with a cell phone only, and no landline. Without a landline, Arbitron has no way to contact the future diary keepers. Without stereo-typing, who's likely to have a landline who Arbitron can reach? This is why they've leaned more rhythmic. They're programming for the market. Unfortunately, the personalities are less compelling/creative. They definitely made a mistake by keeping Jo-Jo on at night instead of moving him to PM drive. It's easier to build a night show on a CHR than a PM Drive show in Los Angeles. The personalities currently on, don't take risks or have the desire to fully develop their personality. They are fully content in being a secondary aspect to the music, as opposed to the other way around. It's safe to say that the CC CHR stations sound like KIIS-FM than vice-versa. Is KIIS still a solid station? Yes. Ground-breaking and maintaining its legendary status? Far from it. But, neither is Z-100/NY, KMEL/SF,B96/CHI or any other CHR in the country.

3. KHHT-the original poster did not mention Hot 92.3. Unfortunately, by switching to Urban AC, they pretty much split the audience between the current V100 and old 100.3 The Beat. Instead of winning the audience, they're an also-ran. It may be to their benefit to re-tool and switch to a mainstream Urban. Diana Steele is a name-brand in the market, who made a name on an Urban in 92.3 The Beat.

4. KYSR-a format originally founded upon the singer/songwriter Lillith Fair audience in the 90's has lost its way in the last 7 years. Why does it sound bad? Product. The previous product was more personality-weighted than music-weighted. Without Seacrest and now Jamie & Co., the music couldn't hold up the audience on its own. Core artists from back in the glory days included, Dave Matthews, Hootie & The Blowfish, Sarah McLaughlin, Sheryl Crow, etc. Artists like James Blunt, John Mayer and The Fray aren't enough to hold the format up on this station. That's why they're trying to play palatable-female friendly artists from KROQ, like Snow Patrol, My Chemical Romance, and 30 Sec. to Mars and the tracks from KIIS that still appeal to the demo in Nelly Furtado, Kelly Clarkson and Avril Lavigne. It may be the only move that can be done as this audience is apt to still look for music on-line, but not as proactive as the KIIS or KROQ demos.

Again, it is to the discontent of radiophiles that this is the way it is, but to the average audience, it's just more noise. Noise they could find on the web, or other mediums without the annoyances. With the advent of cellphones with broadband speeds, streaming stations through one's phone to their car stereo, or other means is on the horizon. This means even more competition for terrestrial radio ad time, and fewer personalities willing to develop compelling radio.

 

[moderator7]

Some post in this topic have been moved to Take It Outside.

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=67214.0

 

[mostb1]

These type of messages are rampant among all the boards regarding the "sound" of radio today versus the past. Unfortunately for radiophiles, the business of the radio-business has taken precedence, and has created less compelling radio across the board. These are the facts among ALL corporate-owned stations, even the smaller corps. like Entercom and Citadel. Without money as a motivating factor, personalities are more prone to let the music be the bigger star than themselves. Without money, the station can't run 'larger than life' promos, contests, etc.

The original poster is clearly not in the demo of what CCU is targeting: primarily 25-54F, secondary 18-34F

Before over-reacting, let's look at the aspects of why this holds true:

1. aside from KIIS and KYSR, the 25-54F demo listens passively, and fresh-new music is not what they listen to terrestrial radio for. KOST and KBIG are listen-at-work/soccer mom radio stations. Does this mean that there can't be creative and compelling jocks? Absolutely not. The 25-54F demo respond well to flyaways, free cars and cash, but economics are a huge factor. Keep in mind, the only demo, who counts in auditorium tests, are 25-54F. Every other demo is an added benefit. KOST and KBIG are doing respectably well for the budgets they have and the music mix is agreeable to the demo.

2. KIIS-FM- the original poster claims that a supposed-talking head with a 45 year old female side-kick is a poor morning show with uncompelling content. Sorry, but Rick Dees wasn't cutting it by ranking in the lower top 10 for the 18-34F and 25-54F demos. The 25-54F and 18-34F demos like Seacrest. In fact it is the win in the 25-54F demo which took KIIS by surprise. Why is this show agreeable to these demos? a) a plain-vanilla non-offensive likeable host in Seacrest is what moms like b) and more important, is the relationship discussions which take place during the show. Their topics appeal to women across the board. People forget that Seacrest had stellar numbers in PM drive for KYSR with the same relationship talk. The perception is females identify with him, almost treating him like either their clueless male friend, their "easy to talk to" gay male friend, OR both aspects of these personalities which he displays on a daily basis. His Ryan's Roses bit is clearly a bit done across the country, but is one of the most popular because females love it. It's the aforementioned reasons which enable Ellen K. to fit in with the program. The voice of agreement, a married woman in the 25-54 demo, and veteran personality of the station make her the most obvious fit. If they brought over Seacrest's previous sidekick, Lisa Foxx, they would have had to rebuild from the bottom. Keeping Ellen made the transition from Dees to Seacrest a little easier to stomach for the 25-54F contingent. BTW, women love celebrity gossip. That's why every morning show of all formats do it. Will Ellen K last much longer? Perhaps for 2-3 years, but I agree with the original poster, that she will soon be too old for the station. Stranger things have happened, however. Regarding the overall sound of the station, let's keep in mind one glaring characteristic: WHO IS GOING TO FILL OUT THE ARBITRON? The 12-24F and even some 18-34F spend more time on-line and find new music through other mediums besides terrestrial radio. This number is increasing every year. WHO IS GOING TO FILL OUT THE ARBITRON? KIIS has to cater to the people left-over, who aren't online as much and less pro-active in finding new music. (This holds true for KYSR.) More people in the younger demos are more likely to live with a cell phone only, and no landline. Without a landline, Arbitron has no way to contact the future diary keepers. Without stereo-typing, who's likely to have a landline who Arbitron can reach? This is why they've leaned more rhythmic. They're programming for the market. Unfortunately, the personalities are less compelling/creative. They definitely made a mistake by keeping Jo-Jo on at night instead of moving him to PM drive. It's easier to build a night show on a CHR than a PM Drive show in Los Angeles. The personalities currently on, don't take risks or have the desire to fully develop their personality. They are fully content in being a secondary aspect to the music, as opposed to the other way around. It's safe to say that the CC CHR stations sound like KIIS-FM than vice-versa. Is KIIS still a solid station? Yes. Ground-breaking and maintaining its legendary status? Far from it. But, neither is Z-100/NY, KMEL/SF,B96/CHI or any other CHR in the country.

3. KHHT-the original poster did not mention Hot 92.3. Unfortunately, by switching to Urban AC, they pretty much split the audience between the current V100 and old 100.3 The Beat. Instead of winning the audience, they're an also-ran. It may be to their benefit to re-tool and switch to a mainstream Urban. Diana Steele is a name-brand in the market, who made a name on an Urban in 92.3 The Beat.

4. KYSR-a format originally founded upon the singer/songwriter Lillith Fair audience in the 90's has lost its way in the last 7 years. Why does it sound bad? Product. The previous product was more personality-weighted than music-weighted. Without Seacrest and now Jamie & Co., the music couldn't hold up the audience on its own. Core artists from back in the glory days included, Dave Matthews, Hootie & The Blowfish, Sarah McLaughlin, Sheryl Crow, etc. Artists like James Blunt, John Mayer and The Fray aren't enough to hold the format up on this station. That's why they're trying to play palatable-female friendly artists from KROQ, like Snow Patrol, My Chemical Romance, and 30 Sec. to Mars and the tracks from KIIS that still appeal to the demo in Nelly Furtado, Kelly Clarkson and Avril Lavigne. It may be the only move that can be done as this audience is apt to still look for music on-line, but not as proactive as the KIIS or KROQ demos.

Again, it is to the discontent of radiophiles that this is the way it is, but to the average audience, it's just more noise. Noise they could find on the web, or other mediums without the annoyances. With the advent of cellphones with broadband speeds, streaming stations through one's phone to their car stereo, or other means is on the horizon. This means even more competition for terrestrial radio ad time, and fewer personalities willing to develop compelling radio.

Huh? Ryan Seacrest steller numbers at Star? Hardly. Good numbers at times, yes, but never "steller". His KIIS numbers are better than anything he ever got at Star by far.

Hot's switching to an Urban AC did not impact 100.3 The Beat and split any audience with it. 100.3 The Beat AND Hot 92 Jamz EACH had some of their best numbers during the days the two were on head-to-head. It was the loss of the Steve Harvey morning show and the Radio One blunders that followed, and still continue to this day at their poorly programmed V100, that has got them where they are now (in the toilet). Hot is moving in an oldies direction (note all weekends are all oldies every weekend from now on) targeting primarily Hispanics and isn't moving anywhere near Urban which wouldn't make any sense for the cluster. With the shape of the current Hip Hop music scene and the ethnic make-up of Los Angeles I wouldn't be switching to an Urban format at this time regardless. Diana - a wonderfully sweet and talented air personality - would make a great addition to V100 if you want to reincarnate the old Beat staff. But she's better off where she is now than working for Radio One.

One more note on Hot: The one blunder that no one seems to be seeing is that Art Laboe 6 nights a week is probably a little too much for what really should just go back to being a one night a week speciality show. I don't think any of us thought it wouldn't be as huge hit during the week as it has been on Sunday nights.

Ellen K will be out the day after the last day of her iron clad contract that her husband negotiated before he was thrown out of the building. She'd be gone now if it wasn't for that contract.

I think it is way to early to make the judgements you are making on Star. Star is back and it's moving forward. And it's sounding better than it has in many years.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

BrianCraig---I got a little ahead of myself regarding KOST & KHJ; Drake and Jacobs essentially reinvented the format, so while Kaye's accomplishments at KOST didn't match those at KHJ or KTWV, they're still worth acknowledging.

As WLTW NYC PD Jim Ryan said in a very nice twenty-year tribute article in R&R, 'The days of putting an AC sstation on the air and trying to copy WLTW or KOST are over'.