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Why does Countrys popularity seem hard to digest

R

RunWithScissors

Guest
It seems on many boards people are in disbelief when Country formats take the lead and CHR's, Urban and AC's are left in the dust. Can anyone realize people might love Country music and its very popular, thats it in a nutshell. I am not a Country Fan, I am a Rocker, but I accept that the format is gaining popularity in all aspects of entertainment.
 
Coming from someone who just spent 20 years in the format, the biggest reason I can give is that it's the only major format that hasn't really fragmented. Pop/top-40 has splintered into several different formats...CHR/AC/hot-AC, etc... rock has splintered into AOR/Classic Rock/Active Rock/Alternative, etc...and even urban has splintered somewhat with Rap/Hip-Hop/R&B/adult R&B, etc.

Mainstream country is mainstream country where artists like George Strait and Alan Jackson can exist alongside artists like Faith Hill and Shania Twain. You do have offshoots like classic country and Americana, but neither of those is a revenue generating mainstream format. And since pop/rock/urban stations have fragmented, there are usually several options on the dial with listeners bouncing around to several different stations. There's generally just one or (maybe) two country stations in a market, so there's generally not too many options on the radio dial for the strictly country music fan. Country has always done its best when the format has been "hip" enough to attract listeners from other formats. Gretchen Wilson and Big & Rich have done a lot to bring in new fans in last year or two...a few years ago it was the Dixie Chicks and back in the early 90s it was Garth Brooks.

As long as country radio can avoid splintering, it will remain a very successful format. If it splinters into traditional vs. mainstream, traditonal country will become a niche format because there aren't enough traditional country fans out there to make the format profitable except in certain geographic regions and because the mainstream country format would likely merge with AC. Actually, merging AC with mainstream country would be an interesting format variation to try somewhere.
 
I know the reason I always have problems believing it is just the part of the country we're in (NJ / NY)... I've spent lots of time down south (Mississippi)... WAY SOUTH... and people wear cowboy hats, and line dance in clubs... I've seen line dancing to Jay-Z before... but you don't have much of that up here... sure it happens, but the dude with the cowboy hat on in the mall is generally stared at... not so down south... so, of course I associate country with south, and since we're not there, I have a difficult time understanding how the format works up here... the only thing I can get through my thick head is that it is a niche format up here and there are enough people that want it that ONE station in our markets here can live nicely... but I'm sure the people that like country might say that I'm some sort of profiler... or something... I'm just saying why I can't understand those stations being successful... but I'm happy to make room on the dial for them...
 
Well, I'm Northeast born and for the most part raised, but I like country. It's far from the only thing I listen to, but sometimes, you need to dial someplace that plays music that makes you feel good about being an American, and other than jazz, nothing does that like country. WPUR Atlantic City and WXTU Philadelphia have carved out a niche playing country here in the Northeast...and XTU's been doing it for over twenty years, I believe. New York City is conspicuously without a country outlet, but I know there are country fans there, too. It's isn't a Mississippi only thing!
 
Except for a few crossover hits, xtu and cat own this music in each market. They sound great, not too hickish to get the most appeal they can with their exclusive format tht has the smallest overlap with other formats (besides maybe smooth jazz and spanish-with only one being is Philly).


Nobody is knocking the country format or selling it short. However, its power ratio at least in markets like Atlantic City is not good. Same with hip hop, all people are saying is that these stations get great numbers, but still remain less desired by advertisers than herritage Acs and Hot Acs. Star in LA is getting a 1.4 12+, yet they will outbill spanish stations with 3 times the numbers.

Cat deserves the credit, they sound great as does Wayv, and SoJo somewhat. I think SoJo is at a low number and low demo numbers in Ac/Cape because of their signal. It sucks in AC, and South of SomersPoint.
 
I have to admit that I am a big fan of 80's 90's and today's country music. I still listen to other formats and enjoy them, however I believe that advertisers are way off base in thinking that country stations in the NYC/NJ don't sell. The market is there and the last station on the air in North Jersey that played country made good money and had great personality with local flavor. Fans and broadcasters alike are missing out on a competition free market in the northern part of our state. Every other major city in America has at least ONE country station that pulls decent numbers. Look at Baltimore...WPOC consistently rides the #1 or #2 spot. They must be doing something right! The reason that I subscribed to Satellite radio was the lack of a country station in the NYC area, so I have my country any time. I just feel that there is too much duplication on our airwaves and there is room for such a station on the dial. Even an AM station would make money. WVNJ 1160 covers an area that lacks country and would more than likely perform exceptionally if they took the format.
 
RunWithScissors said:
It seems on many boards people are in disbelief when Country formats take the lead and CHR's, Urban and AC's are left in the dust. Can anyone realize people might love Country music and its very popular, thats it in a nutshell. I am not a Country Fan, I am a Rocker, but I accept that the format is gaining popularity in all aspects of entertainment.

The secret is: It's not really 'Country' anymore, just like 'Alternative' isn't really that. To me, the music called Country sounds like twee pop or just plain pop. The only distinction, perhaps, is in the lyrics, which (at a brief look) addresses the working class man. They might as well play some early 70s 'california rock' as well.

I prefer 'outlaw country' myself.

I think we would all be better off calling it all f[*EDIT*]g music. I think music distintions are silly at the very least, and , at the worst makes for horrible genre-anticipatory music, and horrible formats.
 
raydofan said:
The secret is: It's not really 'Country' anymore, just like 'Alternative' isn't really that. To me, the music called Country sounds like twee pop or just plain pop. The only distinction, perhaps, is in the lyrics, which (at a brief look) addresses the working class man. They might as well play some early 70s 'california rock' as well.

That pretty much sums up how I feel about Country. If I'm going to listen to that genre of music, I want the edge and the humor that it once had - not this simpering, twee groveling that we get from the likes of Keith Urban and Rascal Flatts, among many others. Really, what's the difference between these guys and the James Blunts and Daniel Powters of the world, save for some pedal steel and banjoes?

There's plenty of places to go to hear sensitive wuss music just like this, whether its the other Country station Cat Country 107.3 (Even though it operates out of the Atlantic City / Cape May market, it has a very strong signal the covers half of this market, including most of the area that Jersey Kountry 98.5 covers) or the myriad Adult Contemporary stations, or even G Rock Radio which plays far more twee pop than your average Alternative (they love Death Cab For Cutie, Coldplay and Switchfoot and play them far more often than most other stations with this format).

I was really hoping for something surprising, even given Press's track record of playing it very safe. The voiceover person saying "Wait till you hear what's on 98.5 at Noon" yesterday led me to hope for something exciting and new, but instead the station lived up to my expectations of being predictable and bland.

Therefore, in reference to the question posed in the subject line: No, I am not surprised at Country's success. It's basically Adult Contemporary draped in a Confederate flag, so it's little surprise that it's so popular. However, I don't see the second attempt at Country in Ocean County going anywhere given the strong presence of Cat Country in addition to the fact that this area isn't exactly Cowpoke Central.
 
SoulCrusher said:
raydofan said:
The secret is: It's not really 'Country' anymore, just like 'Alternative' isn't really that. To me, the music called Country sounds like twee pop or just plain pop. The only distinction, perhaps, is in the lyrics, which (at a brief look) addresses the working class man. They might as well play some early 70s 'california rock' as well.

That pretty much sums up how I feel about Country. If I'm going to listen to that genre of music, I want the edge and the humor that it once had - not this simpering, twee groveling that we get from the likes of Keith Urban and Rascal Flatts, among many others. Really, what's the difference between these guys and the James Blunts and Daniel Powters of the world, save for some pedal steel and banjoes?

There's plenty of places to go to hear sensitive wuss music just like this

OK. For the last time:

There's money in country music. Country music crosses demos a LOT easier than Alternative.

Alternative music caps its audience at around 35. Country does not. A 25 year old and a 54 year old will both be likely to listen to Toby Keith than a 25 year old and a 54 year old listening to She Wants Revenge.

For you to even IDENTIFY Country Music as "Wuss Music" is laughable. Yes, Keith Urban is more of a low-key emotional performer. But Toby Keith isn't. Neither is Big n' Rich. Rodney Atkins. Kenny Chesney is debatable.

For every "wuss" song you can pull out country wise, you want to explain Blue October's "Hate Me"? Please. "waaaaahhh I was a junkie and I loved you, and you left me, waaaahhhhh"

That Confederate Flag comment is REALLY insulting, and you should stop with the innuendo and generalizations and stick to the facts instead of being a big mouth punk.

Wanna know why NASCAR and Country Music is so popular? Because the people that enjoy it seem to have disposable incomes - hence making them that more attractive to potential advertisers.

If you don't want bland and predictable, listen to your Ipod. Even when it's something that's not "bland and predictable" (JACK-FM), people go ape. So it's a lose-lose situation.
 
Tom McNally said:
Hey MF ! I love that Blue October song !

Sorry Tom - Just illustrating an example. Got a little hot under the collar when country music is involved - and you and I both know that's not the first time it's happened. heh.
 
For sure - trying to explain things on here can be tough. Lotsa one track minds.
Yeah - why would anyone want to try a format that's solid in one market in
the next market ? Jeez Overlapping signals does not mean overlapping
advertisers.
 
Tom McNally said:
For sure - trying to explain things on here can be tough. Lotsa one track minds.
Yeah - why would anyone want to try a format that's solid in one market in
the next market ? Jeez Overlapping signals does not mean overlapping
advertisers.

Exactly. Doesn't PUR's advertising focus solely on the Atlantic City market? The #1 advertiser on radio is car dealerships (correct me if I'm wrong), and no one is going to travel more than 20 miles for a new car. So even if someone is listening to PUR in Toms River, they're not going to go to Northfield for a Hyundai.

In fact, this is a pretty masterful stroke by Press - considering that Toms River Fest is this weekend, what better way to make a splash then having a good appearance there with Martina McBride, Leanne Rimes, and Lonestar playing there?
 
Starscream said:
SoulCrusher said:
raydofan said:
The secret is: It's not really 'Country' anymore, just like 'Alternative' isn't really that. To me, the music called Country sounds like twee pop or just plain pop. The only distinction, perhaps, is in the lyrics, which (at a brief look) addresses the working class man. They might as well play some early 70s 'california rock' as well.

That pretty much sums up how I feel about Country. If I'm going to listen to that genre of music, I want the edge and the humor that it once had - not this simpering, twee groveling that we get from the likes of Keith Urban and Rascal Flatts, among many others. Really, what's the difference between these guys and the James Blunts and Daniel Powters of the world, save for some pedal steel and banjoes?

There's plenty of places to go to hear sensitive wuss music just like this

OK. For the last time:

There's money in country music. Country music crosses demos a LOT easier than Alternative.

Alternative music caps its audience at around 35. Country does not. A 25 year old and a 54 year old will both be likely to listen to Toby Keith than a 25 year old and a 54 year old listening to She Wants Revenge.

For you to even IDENTIFY Country Music as "Wuss Music" is laughable. Yes, Keith Urban is more of a low-key emotional performer. But Toby Keith isn't. Neither is Big n' Rich. Rodney Atkins. Kenny Chesney is debatable.

For every "wuss" song you can pull out country wise, you want to explain Blue October's "Hate Me"? Please. "waaaaahhh I was a junkie and I loved you, and you left me, waaaahhhhh"

That Confederate Flag comment is REALLY insulting, and you should stop with the innuendo and generalizations and stick to the facts instead of being a big mouth punk.

Wanna know why NASCAR and Country Music is so popular? Because the people that enjoy it seem to have disposable incomes - hence making them that more attractive to potential advertisers.

If you don't want bland and predictable, listen to your Ipod. Even when it's something that's not "bland and predictable" (JACK-FM), people go ape. So it's a lose-lose situation.

Alright, apologies for the Confederate Flag thing, but don't some of the artists/groups fly the flag when they're performing on stage? I'm pretty sure Brooks & Dunn have used it before, but I could be wrong.

At least the Blue October song has some clever wordplay and tells a story. Your token Country song amounts to "I love you woman, yes I do" or other lyrics of that ilk. I have a hard time getting into songs with lyrics a third grader could understand.

Yes, there are somewhat more energetic Country acts out there, but they don't all receive much airplay. I'll give you Toby Keith, but didn't Big & Rich have one big hit, "Save A Horse, Ride A Cowboy", and the rest of the songs only received light airplay? Both they and their buddy Gretchen Wilson seemed to fall victim to the sophomore jinx, as neither of their latest albums produced any major Country radio hits. They were too busy playing sensitive fluff acts like Keith Urban and Rascal Flatts, along with female artists like Carrie Underwood - very attractive, great voice, but her songs are like musical Ambien.

As for the comment about She Wants Revenge, I would say to wait about 20 years or so. There will be plenty of people in that age group listening to that style of music, and I will be one of them!
 
SoulCrusher said:
Alright, apologies for the Confederate Flag thing, but don't some of the artists/groups fly the flag when they're performing on stage? I'm pretty sure Brooks & Dunn have used it before, but I could be wrong.

I think, I'm not sure, that one act did use the Confederate Flag as part of their logo (Not sure if it was Brooks and Dunn, it could have been someone else) but I think it's been discontinued.


At least the Blue October song has some clever wordplay and tells a story. Your token Country song amounts to "I love you woman, yes I do" or other lyrics of that ilk. I have a hard time getting into songs with lyrics a third grader could understand.

You are showing your ignorance bigtime. You are using generalizations (again) of country music. Country lyrics at face value are simple and tell a story, mainly because country music wasn't built around metaphors and allegories. It's an offshoot of simplistic rock and roll.

Comparing the poetry of modern rock and country music is just as insane as comparing the lyrics of modern rock and hip hop. Apples and oranges.

Hell, classic soul and R&B have just as simple writing as country music. Example: Barry White.

Yes, there are somewhat more energetic Country acts out there, but they don't all receive much airplay. I'll give you Toby Keith, but didn't Big & Rich have one big hit, "Save A Horse, Ride A Cowboy", and the rest of the songs only received light airplay? Both they and their buddy Gretchen Wilson seemed to fall victim to the sophomore jinx, as neither of their latest albums produced any major Country radio hits.

Huh wha? "Comin' To Your City" from Big and Rich's Sophomore album was not only a huge country SMASH, but it was a crossover hit too. Their current single, "8th of November" is also doing well.

As for Gretchen Wilson, she's had a couple of modest hits, and her current album went platinum. Apparently, "California Girls" from Wilson is doing better than "Politically Uncorrect".

Do not start about Country Music producing nothing but one-hit wonders. Harvey Danger. Primitive Radio Gods. White Town. Zebrahead. Modern / Alternative rock is just as guilty.

They were too busy playing sensitive fluff acts like Keith Urban and Rascal Flatts, along with female artists like Carrie Underwood - very attractive, great voice, but her songs are like musical Ambien.

Urban, Rascal Flatts, and Underwood are CORE COUNTRY ARTISTS right now. So is Tim McGraw, Faith Hill, Toby Keith, and Brad Paisley.

I can't get 98.5 right now, and they aren't showing up on YES, so I can't look at their playlist and analyze what they are playing, but if it is "New Country", they'll have a format similar to XM's "Highway 16".

You've already established you're not a country music fan and you can't appreciate the music. But as PUR as demonstrated, there is a market for the music on the shore. 98.5 is bringing it to the "northern shore" as it were.

As for the comment about She Wants Revenge, I would say to wait about 20 years or so. There will be plenty of people in that age group listening to that style of music, and I will be one of them!

... again, you're failing to see the big picture. This isn't about 20 years from now, this is about RIGHT NOW. You can't sell advertisers on 20 years in the future. You sell them on right now. And right now, Country sells cross-demos. Alternative does not.
 
Starscream said:
I think, I'm not sure, that one act did use the Confederate Flag as part of their logo (Not sure if it was Brooks and Dunn, it could have been someone else) but I think it's been discontinued.

I know for a fact that Lynyrd Skynyrd has used it over the years, but I'm fairly certain that there's at least one or two Country acts that have done it as well. Of course, I think that The Eagles and Skynyrd were probably a bigger influence on today's Country acts than Johnny Cash and Hank Williams. Thus, the choice to loop "New Kid In Town" by The Eagles prior to the launch of Jersey Kountry was apropos, in my opinion.

You are showing your ignorance bigtime. You are using generalizations (again) of country music. Country lyrics at face value are simple and tell a story, mainly because country music wasn't built around metaphors and allegories. It's an offshoot of simplistic rock and roll.

Comparing the poetry of modern rock and country music is just as insane as comparing the lyrics of modern rock and hip hop. Apples and oranges.

Simplicity is fine. I just wish that complexity was on greater display elsewhere, because while the "I love you woman" stuff has its place, sometimes you just want to hear something with more thought put into it. Even the Alternative format has been dumbed down lately, what with all the pop/punk/emo acts like Dashboard Confessional often favoring plain speak over metaphors and allegory.

Huh wha? "Comin' To Your City" from Big and Rich's Sophomore album was not only a huge country SMASH, but it was a crossover hit too. Their current single, "8th of November" is also doing well.

As for Gretchen Wilson, she's had a couple of modest hits, and her current album went platinum. Apparently, "California Girls" from Wilson is doing better than "Politically Uncorrect".

Do not start about Country Music producing nothing but one-hit wonders. Harvey Danger. Primitive Radio Gods. White Town. Zebrahead. Modern / Alternative rock is just as guilty.

Wait a minute. I didn't call them one hit wonders - I said that Big & Rich and Gretchen Wilson peaked in popularity with "Save A Horse, Ride A Cowboy" and "Redneck Woman" respectively, not that they were each act's only hit. While they have had somewhat popular songs since then, they haven't ranked at the same level of popularity as those songs. And the albums have not sold as well as the previous efforts either.

Country radio is much like every act's political leaning: Conservative. It's safe and formulaic, and tends to favor acts that could fit in perfectly on AC or CHR formats if it weren't for too much twang in the voice or the use of pedal steel. That said, while Big & Rich are popular, their eclectic approach to country music will keep them from attaining the massive popularity of a more generic act like Keith Urban or Rascal Flatts, both of which have their visual appeal to thank for their popularity and not their music.

Yes, there are tons of one hit wonders on Alternative radio, but all of those acts fell off the face of the earth after their one hit, especially White Town (which was technically a one man band, if I recall correctly). I don't even think White Town released another album after the one with "Your Woman" on it. I do know that Harvey Danger has returned and seems to have the critics in their corner with their latest indie release, but it's highly unlikely they'll have another hit.

On a side note: Remember the uproar over comments that the Dixie Chicks made about President Bush? Geez - I never knew having an opinion could be so dangerous. I think that the world would be a boring place if we all thought and acted exactly alike, but apparently the mindset at Country Radio is different from mine.

Urban, Rascal Flatts, and Underwood are CORE COUNTRY ARTISTS right now. So is Tim McGraw, Faith Hill, Toby Keith, and Brad Paisley.

I can't get 98.5 right now, and they aren't showing up on YES, so I can't look at their playlist and analyze what they are playing, but if it is "New Country", they'll have a format similar to XM's "Highway 16".

You've already established you're not a country music fan and you can't appreciate the music. But as PUR as demonstrated, there is a market for the music on the shore. 98.5 is bringing it to the "northern shore" as it were.

I like some Country, at least the older stuff, and some of the less formulaic stuff is alright as well. I'm also a fan of some Americana acts, and I wish today's Country was a ittle less stodgy and would embrace some of these acts. It's just that too much of today's Country has this assembly-line feel to it, and that's because a lot of modern Country acts use the same songwriters and the same producers. I was hoping that acts like the aforementioned Big & Rich and Gretchen Wilson would lead to some kind of sea change in the format, but that has yet to happen. If it did, I might actually listen to Country sometimes.

The problem with WKMK ("Real" Jersey Kountry 98.5 - sorry, but pop acts that sing with a twang and wear Stetsons do not constitute "Real Country") and WPUR (Cat Country 107.3) is that they overlap too much, and it's going to be an uphill battle for the former station. While WPUR is technically an Atlantic City/Cape May station, it covers half the Monmouth/Ocean market with a strong signal. WKMK reaches slightly further north, but not enough to justify using a format that we already have. If Press could have purchased a station with a signal that covers Monmouth County and points north well, I would have said that the Country format was a great idea. On 98.5, they face stiff competition in a market they only cover half of. That's the problem with Press - they always focus on Monmouth rather than Ocean, even if it's a station that covers all of Ocean and only part of Monmouth. The acid test will be if they can succeed in luring listeners away from WPUR or if there's enough of a Country following in southern Monmouth County to support this station. I wish them luck, because they're going to need it.
 
There is nothing wrong with flying the Confederate Flag, I am a Yankee, but its their perogative. Lynryd uses it, just like Public Enemy and other Rap groups use the X for Malcolm X, and spit out racist lyrics that Country and Rock tunes could not come close to. Its the history and tradition of the proud South. It should be flown and displayed, its their heritage, when I was stationed in Louisiana and Georgia years back, the flag was displayed all over the place, now they want to suppress it, attaching it to slavery issues, give me a break. How many Hispanics do you see with their flags flying and no American flag with it. If you fly a foreign flag, you have to fly the American Flag first and that is what the Southern bands do. Its just a bunch of liberals and trouble makers with nothing important to do that started this crap a few years back. If you want to see plenty of stars and bars displayed, you don't have to go far, just take a trip to Southwest Jersey, yes there is a SW Jersey.
 
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