Since it is essentially the same format in both cities why does cbs do well with jack in los angeles the 2nd biggest market and not new york the biggest market?
Opinions please
Opinions please
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Why does jack do well in los angeles and not new york city?
- Thread starter hotpatrick2004
- Start date
Because Arrow in LA was already a classic hits station and played more or less to the same demos. In NY, the flip ticked off the oldies listeners and it got more negative than positive publicity. WCBS still hasn't really recovered from that.
T
TowerBuzz
Guest
Why does it workm in LA?
Two words:
KEVIN WEATHERLY
Two words:
KEVIN WEATHERLY
Each market is different. What works in Los Angeles may not work in New York. Also, 101.1 Jack FM had a lot of negative publicity, etc, as someone said above.
Bad circumstances here I guess.
Bad circumstances here I guess.
It was THE WAY They Flipped! WCBS Was on the Air for OVER 30 YEARS! The Station Was Flipped like a Switch NO WARNINGS No Goodbye's from the DJs The Station was Flipped before the Airstaff even knew they were gone(Unless the Staff wasn't allowed to mention the end). A Total Lack of Respect shown by What was then Infinity.
i didn't know jack didn't work.
T
TowerBuzz
Guest
It was THE WAY They Flipped! WCBS Was on the Air for OVER 30 YEARS! The Station Was Flipped like a Switch NO WARNINGS No Goodbye's from the DJs The Station was Flipped before the Airstaff even knew they were gone(Unless the Staff wasn't allowed to mention the end). A Total Lack of Respect shown by What was then Infinity.
Get over it, seriously. What station ever flips format and allows the whole airstaff to say goodbye? it does not happen. Why would they? so the jocks can get on and bad mouth the new format? or garner sympathy for themselves and the old format?. You may not like Jack and that is your choice but you cant dump on CBS for making a business decision and not allowing the jocks to undermine it sentimentally by putting them on and letting them sign off. When a single jock is let go they are not allowed back on air so you realy expect a whole airstaff to be allowed to continue?. It's the first principle of radio if they're being let go they are off the air the moment they know. Is that harsh? maybe, but that is also STANDARD operating procedure in radio.
Get over it, seriously. What station ever flips format and allows the whole airstaff to say goodbye? it does not happen. Why would they? so the jocks can get on and bad mouth the new format? or garner sympathy for themselves and the old format?. You may not like Jack and that is your choice but you cant dump on CBS for making a business decision and not allowing the jocks to undermine it sentimentally by putting them on and letting them sign off. When a single jock is let go they are not allowed back on air so you realy expect a whole airstaff to be allowed to continue?. It's the first principle of radio if they're being let go they are off the air the moment they know. Is that harsh? maybe, but that is also STANDARD operating procedure in radio.
I
ItalianAce
Guest
I guess each market has different tastes. I never saw the big deal over WCBS-FM. They were just one of many Oldies stations through out the country (that was dropping 50's music by chance). With XM and Sirius there's the option of oldies radio.
As another posted mentioned about Arrow 93.1 (K-CBS 93.1). Arrow 93.1 was classic rock/classic oldies of the late 60's through the early 1980's. When Arrow 93.1 fliped to Jack 93.1 it was more or less the same format with all forms of music from the late 60's to early 80's thrown into the mix. Arrow was on the air for twelve years. Oddly, before Arrow and Jack, KCBS-FM 93.1 was a 50s/60s oldies station that didn't compete well with KRTH which led to the classic rock format.
Arrow 93.1 also flipped pretty much over night into the Jack format.
Anthony--
As another posted mentioned about Arrow 93.1 (K-CBS 93.1). Arrow 93.1 was classic rock/classic oldies of the late 60's through the early 1980's. When Arrow 93.1 fliped to Jack 93.1 it was more or less the same format with all forms of music from the late 60's to early 80's thrown into the mix. Arrow was on the air for twelve years. Oddly, before Arrow and Jack, KCBS-FM 93.1 was a 50s/60s oldies station that didn't compete well with KRTH which led to the classic rock format.
Arrow 93.1 also flipped pretty much over night into the Jack format.
Anthony--
F
fang39
Guest
I've been reading the posts bemoaning the demise of CBS-FM for over a year and have had enough! I loved "The Golden 101" and was a loyal listener from the day they first signed on in 1972, but it's gone and it's not coming back, so please get over it! More about this later.
I'd like to make an observation that I haven't seen regarding this topic. Yes, JACK-FM stumbled into the NY market and they do play too much 80's "Hair Band" Rock, but what I think what is most lacking on the station is PERSONALITY! New York is a personality driven radio market. For a station to be successful and remain so is because of the relationships their on-air hosts forge with their listeners. If Jack were to hire a strong air staff, not neccessarily NY "re-treads," their numbers would improve. When Z-100 first hit the market in 1983, their only recognizable name was Jack "The Wack" McCartney (who joined the station after their first book) and they went from "Worst To First" by their 2nd book.
Regarding the demise of CBS-FM, yes they were clearly in decline, but their aging demographics were only a part of the problem. They tried to convert their veteran jocks into liner card readers and significantly trimmed their playlist. At times, it almost seemed like they were on a continuous loop as I could swear I heard the same sequence of songs again and again. The management refused to realize what made the station successful WAS their air personalities. Jocks their audience had grown up listening to and still wanted to hear. That's why there's still bad feeling among the 101 faithful. When JACK took over, it was like having your wife throw out your favorite pair of beat up slippers....you know they had seen better days, but they're so comfortable you don't want to give them up, let alone have them taken away from you!
As far as listening to oldies on satellite, it's not the same. Doesn't have that local feel. The CBS-FM jocks had that inate ability of making you feel as if they were talking TO you and not AT you. On Long Island, we have an "Oldies" station, that had a "golden" opportunity to snatch a portion of the CBS listening audience, but dropped the ball. After an initial ratings spike following the flip to JACK, B-103 fell back to their previous mediocre numbers. They've embraced the current trend of not referring to themselves as an "Oldies" station and bill themselves as "playing Long Island's Greatest Hits." Outside of their PM drive jock, Keith Allen, the station has the sound and feel of an AC station that playes oldies. It's just plain boring. Like I said earlier, in this market, it's the personalities that sell the music...no matter what the format!
I'd like to make an observation that I haven't seen regarding this topic. Yes, JACK-FM stumbled into the NY market and they do play too much 80's "Hair Band" Rock, but what I think what is most lacking on the station is PERSONALITY! New York is a personality driven radio market. For a station to be successful and remain so is because of the relationships their on-air hosts forge with their listeners. If Jack were to hire a strong air staff, not neccessarily NY "re-treads," their numbers would improve. When Z-100 first hit the market in 1983, their only recognizable name was Jack "The Wack" McCartney (who joined the station after their first book) and they went from "Worst To First" by their 2nd book.
Regarding the demise of CBS-FM, yes they were clearly in decline, but their aging demographics were only a part of the problem. They tried to convert their veteran jocks into liner card readers and significantly trimmed their playlist. At times, it almost seemed like they were on a continuous loop as I could swear I heard the same sequence of songs again and again. The management refused to realize what made the station successful WAS their air personalities. Jocks their audience had grown up listening to and still wanted to hear. That's why there's still bad feeling among the 101 faithful. When JACK took over, it was like having your wife throw out your favorite pair of beat up slippers....you know they had seen better days, but they're so comfortable you don't want to give them up, let alone have them taken away from you!
As far as listening to oldies on satellite, it's not the same. Doesn't have that local feel. The CBS-FM jocks had that inate ability of making you feel as if they were talking TO you and not AT you. On Long Island, we have an "Oldies" station, that had a "golden" opportunity to snatch a portion of the CBS listening audience, but dropped the ball. After an initial ratings spike following the flip to JACK, B-103 fell back to their previous mediocre numbers. They've embraced the current trend of not referring to themselves as an "Oldies" station and bill themselves as "playing Long Island's Greatest Hits." Outside of their PM drive jock, Keith Allen, the station has the sound and feel of an AC station that playes oldies. It's just plain boring. Like I said earlier, in this market, it's the personalities that sell the music...no matter what the format!
honestly, jack kinda is an oldies station now, most of the crap they play is from 87 and before.
ItalianAce said:
Arrow was nearly dead when they flipped the format to Jack in LA. It was a 70's station, and fairly hard compared to Jack. The title overlap is minimal as apercentage of the Jack playlist. There were a lot of reports that most of the cume left (based on someone's research... maybe KLOS) with the switch because Jack is so much more 80's and 90's than 70's, and the classic rockers, the 11 of them left in LA, went to KLOS.
I
ItalianAce
Guest
Yeah, Arrow 93 ran their course. I didn't listen much in their later years; although I did listen around 1993-1996 when they were still tagging themselves as "Rock and Roll Oldies". They had a good start that's for sure, I remember when various other markets took on the "Arrow" format. I guess like any other format after awhile it dies or gets old. Twelve years (or so) was a nice run considering.
Anyhow, back on topic. Formats change (sometimes a station will change formats like the weather). That's why I don't see the big issue over WCBS-FM on this NY forum. The station had a 30+ year run which is a good run, but people can't expect the station to stay oldies for another 40 years. Speaking as someone who's an oldies music fan.
Anthony--
Anyhow, back on topic. Formats change (sometimes a station will change formats like the weather). That's why I don't see the big issue over WCBS-FM on this NY forum. The station had a 30+ year run which is a good run, but people can't expect the station to stay oldies for another 40 years. Speaking as someone who's an oldies music fan.
Anthony--
A
automationasphyxiation
Guest
For the benefit of Loverboy, perhaps the question needs to be re-worded:
Why does the Jack format perform better in the Los Angeles market than the NY Market? Is the success in the market competitive-matrix or the local execution, or a bit of both?
Why does the Jack format perform better in the Los Angeles market than the NY Market? Is the success in the market competitive-matrix or the local execution, or a bit of both?
automationasphyxiation said:
I understood the question, my point is that the market is different. LA was always more of a "rock" town than NYC.
Different things work in different markets sometimes..... Alternative is big in LA, never caught on in NY. Dance had
always done better in NY than LA....... LA's JACK actually pumped into NY doesnt necessarily have the same results.
Loverboy said:
An Active or Alternative Rock station can work in NYC. CBS/Infinity was very foolish about the way they handled 92.3 K-Rock (WXRK at the time), hence the reason why it failed. Read more about the problems with the station here: http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,46544.msg323428.html#msg323428
L
LMFAO
Guest
Loverboy said:
I haven't compared monitor's lately, but last I checked Jack-LA and Jack-NY had a lot of different music, but the overall idea behind the station was similar.
TowerBuzz said:
When 1010 WINS -Westinghouse Broadcasting in New York... (NY's 1st all News station) was flipping from "Golden age of NY Top 40" format the staff was allowed to say goodbye for weeks. There was a countdown to the final minutes of Top 40, The Music Jocks did all they could to convey the excitement of the new format, and some of them stayed on & did news! There was no unexpected execution of friends of 30 years, and most of all there was NO ridiculing the Music Listeners of the station after the format change. Its bad enough to be called old and useless while we are still all working daily producing wealth and spending it. To be ridiculed after being thrown out of our old station like trash, is insensitive and stupid. The station had very respecable ratings and was making money. To think that you had to kill the # 8 rated station in the #1 US Radio Market, when you had 2 other stations languishing in the gutter with ratings just ahead of only the Spanish Language stations is the Height of Arrogance. New York has plenty of entertainment choices already. To saddle us with a moronic uninformative, unentertaining new station, playing poorly chosen and mixed music, while being insulted is an amatureish, cheap, attempt to make quick money. New Yorkers do not like being ripped off! Thats why no one is listening. Even the kids they are looking for think the station is cheap crap. They're not gonna spend $200.00 on each pair of sneakers they own, and settle for cheap crap radio.
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