Why does radio suck?

[WTFman]

It seems to me that it's thanks to "too much political talk radio" that "radio is fortunate to still be alive".
In fact, political talk seems to me to be the most important function remaining to radio in a day when the nation seems to be well on its way to being hijacked by __________*.




*Take your pick of those on the Evil Right or Evil Left, bankers, 'one worlders', satan, Lady Gaga, etc....

 

[michael hagerty]

Ya know....rethinking my earlier comments...

Radio does not suck, it has changed with the times. Just like radio changed between 1950 and 1960. It is not 1965 or 1972 anymore. It is 2010 and radio stations are doing what attracts the 2010 audience. So the premise of the question is wrong. Radio does not suck.

Well, now...I'm not so sure.

Kids (and young adults under 25) don't like it, so there's not much of a future for it.

It's hard to find anyone over 40 who likes it.

And it's hard to find true enthusiasm among the 25-40 year olds who are regular listeners.

I think that pretty well defines "sucks".

It's dying unless it finds something it and only it can deliver to an audience that is of interest to advertisers and has growth potential.

 

[Prais]

Tom Wells said; "And why should there be a a format for the comatose, but not the manic?"

I thought you lived around Chicago??? MOST of the fm dial serves "the manic."

I'm very glad that I have about 200 hours of "the fm 100 plan" that I put on cd's so I can enjoy my 40 minute ride to work each day. No bad news, no Lady Bla Bla, no stress.

I'm 60, and it's wonderful.

With a very few exceptions these days, radio CERTAINLY sucks.

 

[nmoore6676]

Which makes perfect sense when you add in satellite radio, internet streaming, and ipods. I grew up in the 60s as a middle-class kid with an allowance based on the 'chores' I did around the house. That generally netted me about $5.00 per week; only enough money to buy the occasional 45 rpm single ($1.00 in 1960s dollars) or album (about $3.95). I loved radio (DJs, formats, jingles), but for most of my friends, it existed primarily as a way to hear new music when it was released, and to listen to all the music they couldn't afford to buy.

Now that we have internet downloads, accessing the music you want is either free (when you pirate it), or only 99 cents to $1.29 per song (in 2010 dollars). If you like a half dozen or a dozen new songs a month, it's affordable - even for kids on allowances.

That's one of the best perspectives on this issue I have seen... the simple cost of music relative to spending power.

Add in all the new entertainment sources, and radio is fortunate to still be alive!

Lkeller brought back those memories when I went down to the local record emporium armed with the WIZE, WING, WCOL music charts to make my selections, I think they were under a dollar (75 cents) per 45RPM single but maybe his memory is better than mine. But the biggest thing was that once I had a regular job that afforded me the occasional LP album and I recall being disappointed when only one or two songs were ones I really wanted. Things are better today when they usually put a lot of potential singles in a CD package but back then they put usually covers of other artists songs or marginal material in to fill out an LP.

My question about the viability of other delivery means. I stream listen a lot at home because I have tastes in music not served by local radio where I am, either when I was in LA or now in Ottumwa, Iowa. That works just fine so long as my broadband monthly fee includes unlimited traffic. If it comes to pass, and they are inching to the day, that they start charging for bytes then that might have to change. If they make WiFi radio available on a large scale there will come a time when that is charged for, it can't be free or nearly so forever.

So what happens then?

Radio still works best when I'm not at home and I can slip my little Walkman in my pocket. I-pods are always going to be limited to what you have purchased, I do not believe in swapping or downloading bootleg music so I have paid for every song I have. The quality of audio on satellite to my ears really sucks, it sounds like a really bad internet stream so radio is still a good option but they seem hell bent on destroying it. What can we do then to keep it on or is it worth it, does anyone care?

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

It seems to me that it's thanks to "too much political talk radio" that "radio is fortunate to still be alive".
In fact, political talk seems to me to be the most important function remaining to radio in a day when the nation seems to be well on its way to being hijacked by __________*.

*Take your pick of those on the Evil Right or Evil Left, bankers, 'one worlders', satan, Lady Gaga, etc....

In theory you are correct. political talk radio... or more correctly described: "public issues talk radio" could indeed be the most important function remaining to radio. <--- insert the period HERE.

Indirectly you are also correct when you tried tacking onto that sentence: "Radio in a day when the nation seems to be well on its way to being hijacked by ____." The sentence would be accurate if you filled in the blank with "talk radio as we know it today."

Since talk radio has been hijacked by one narrow line of thinking, we have to worry if it turns out that radio is an effective way to influence people. The whole nation will be hijacked by one narrow line of thinking.

On the other hand, radio seems to be ignored by a significant part of the population, and ignored in particular by a significant part of the political thinkers of the population... apparently because they assume radio is NOT an effective way to influence people. If this group is right and radio is an ineffective way to communicate ideas, then the whole nation will NOT be hijacked after all.... at least not by any group using radio.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm very glad that I have about 200 hours of "the fm 100 plan" that I put on cd's so I can enjoy my 40 minute ride to work each day. No bad news, no Lady Bla Bla, no stress.

Gee... that's a flashback.

I can remember sitting in Darrel Peters' 80th floor apartment in the Hancock during a typical Lake Michigan January gale, sipping wine and talking about radio as the wind rattled the glass.

I had the southernmost FM 100 Plan station, and that Chicago weather was frightening.

 

[Markieo]

Let's see...Clear Channel, Citadel, CBS, Entercom, etc.

Voice tracking, per-inquiry ads that repeat the phone number 4 or more times, obnoxious car dealer ads, etc.

Same 200 song playlists on oldies/classic hits stations (if they still exist in your market).

Celebrities with no radio broadcasting experience (Whoopi Goldberg, David Lee Roth) doing syndicated morning shows, forcing local talent out of some areas.

Stations changing formats with no notice, firing staff over the phone, or if in the studio, pulling them off the air, giving them five minutes to clean out their desks, with a security guard watching over them. (Bill Brown on WCBS-FM with 36 years at the station was given this treatment, no gold watch, not even a dinner!)

Infomercials.


Dead Air.

 

[davideduardo]

Voice tracking,

Been done since the late 60's... there is likely less today than in the 70's.

per-inquiry ads that repeat the phone number 4 or more times, obnoxious car dealer ads, etc.

I hate some of those ads, but I hated the race track ads of the late 50's and 60's... "and bring your camera!!!!!" There have always been obnoxious ads, because they sell.

Same 200 song playlists on oldies/classic hits stations (if they still exist in your market).

Many oldies stations changed format, but most morphed into classic hits. The well done ones are very, very significant players like KOOL-FM, WCBS-FM and WOGL. And they have playlists of 700-800 songs.

Celebrities with no radio broadcasting experience (Whoopi Goldberg, David Lee Roth) doing syndicated morning shows, forcing local talent out of some areas.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It was worth a try. And both examples failed and the stations moved on.

Stations changing formats with no notice, firing staff over the phone, or if in the studio, pulling them off the air, giving them five minutes to clean out their desks, with a security guard watching over them.

Format changes since the 50's have seldom been announced. And firing has almost always been at the last moment for fear of an on-air swan song.

(Bill Brown on WCBS-FM with 36 years at the station was given this treatment, no gold watch, not even a dinner!)

The attitude one has to take is the same that I am sure the crew and cast on any TV show has: enjoy it while it lasts. If you are in programming, you have little guarantee. If that makes some people unhappy, then perhaps they picked the wrong career.

While there is no excuse for being rude or boorish when letting someone go, even if with cause, changes of format are no different than a TV series being canceled... facts of life.

 

[briancraig]

"there is likely less today than in the 70's."

I'm not sure that is a fair comparison with the difference being that the voice tracking of the 1970s was mainly on FM stations with few listeners.

In the 1970s here in Memphis, the 6 full time AM stations had live disc jockeys 24 hours a day. The 2 most popular FM stations also had live personalities 24 hours. Even 2 of the 3 daytimers had live jocks from 6 am to sundown with the other daytimer being mainly paid religion. The other FM stations were voice tracked or automated, but these stations were not a ratings factor. I'm sure most medium sized markets were similar.

In L.A. what other stations that were in the ratings game used voice tracking in the 1970s? I know KRLA did in the early part of the decade, but who else?

 

[michael hagerty]

"there is likely less today than in the 70's."

I'm not sure that is a fair comparison with the difference being that the voice tracking of the 1970s was mainly on FM stations with few listeners.

In the 1970s here in Memphis, the 6 full time AM stations had live disc jockeys 24 hours a day. The 2 most popular FM stations also had live personalities 24 hours. Even 2 of the 3 daytimers had live jocks from 6 am to sundown with the other daytimer being mainly paid religion. The other FM stations were voice tracked or automated, but these stations were not a ratings factor. I'm sure most medium sized markets were similar.

In L.A. what other stations that were in the ratings game used voice tracking in the 1970s? I know KRLA did in the early part of the decade, but who else?

KNX-FM and K-Earth.

 

[recto101]

Too Many people want to have political propaganda talk radio.

Even those who may want to agree with you have to point out your post is a bit non-communicative. ;D

How would you define "too many" people?
Do we have any evidence that people who want talk radio actually want political propaganda?
Do we have any evidence that listeners want talk, with or without propaganda? With or without politics?

If we through some magic could for six weeks turn off all talk radio (Put up a "Closed for Remodeling" sign or something) would we then say we have radio that does not suck?

It is our American tradition to insist that the market place is efficient and provides the consumer with what the consumer actually wants.

Does today's radio industry provide a classroom example that the traditional thinking is flawed?

Why does Hannity Rush and Beck get the most publicity for radio today. People don't even listen to music on the radio anymore due to the web and Mp3 players today.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

"People don't even listen to music on the radio anymore due to the web and Mp3 players today."

Broad and meaningless statement made as 'fact'.

 

[LKellerIII]

"People don't even listen to music on the radio anymore due to the web and Mp3 players today."

Broad and meaningless statement made as 'fact'.

Is what you've put quote marks around an actual quote from this thread, or are you paraphrasing so you can criticize? My previous point about MP3 and the internet was merely that my teenage daughter (and her friends, too) rarely listen to radio, and get their music elsewhere. I wasn't making any kind of broad statement about radio, just making an observation. My point is - they don't need radio to access music, like I did in my pre-historic generation, or even like my older kids (who grew up in the 90s) did.

I've never been an "early adopter," but I finally got an MP3 player a few months ago, and now have an auxiliary port in my car stereo. I'm already listening to a lot less radio, and not just music radio - less talk radio, and less NPR, too. There are only so many potential listening hours in the day, and anything that takes people away from radio is obviously going to have an impact on the industry.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Lew, I was critiquing recto's post, not yours. "People" still do listen to the radio for music, maybe not in the same % as in the past. Otherwise how does one explain the success of KIIS-FM and/or JACK-FM?

Somehow the 'quote' feature in a reply is screwed up for some of us and it's a pain to reply and edit, thus the quote marks.

IMO Recto made a statement that's as simplified as the thread title. Yes younger people get their music fix in lots of places, I'm not young anymore but I still dig RnR... I'm older but not ancient. SoCal music-based radio stations as constituted today lost me for the most part a long time ago. No worry thanks to the 'net as long as the royalty battle doesn't screw it up too much. But I would listen to music on over the air stations here if there were formats I liked .... if I lived in San Francisco, I'd probably listen to KFOG somewhat. If I lived in White Plains I'd listen to The Peak in my car. [anyway I listen to them in my car via Internet stream-recorded into an MP3 file-burned on a CD]. If I lived in Portland I'd listen over the air to KINKdotFM.

 

[TheBigA]

Why does Hannity Rush and Beck get the most publicity for radio today.

Because they are national personalities who are known everywhere. That's what's missing in music radio.

Every town has a few popular DJs. But they're only known in their town. It becomes divide & conquor. All these little people simply can't get the kind of focus that the national guys get. Plus let's face it: The TV connection helps too.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Why does Hannity Rush and Beck get the most publicity for radio today.

Because they are national personalities who are known everywhere. That's what's missing in music radio.

Every town has a few popular DJs. But they're only known in their town. It becomes divide & conquor. All these little people simply can't get the kind of focus that the national guys get. Plus let's face it: The TV connection helps too.

Or perhaps they are simply putting out better, more compelling product that people want to hear, which in turn drives ratings, which in turn increases cash flow with additional spot revenues, which in turn increases the value of the stations they are on, which in turn, encourages other station owners and managers to put them on.

 

[WTFman]

"Why does Hannity Rush and Beck get the most publicity for radio today."
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"Or perhaps they are simply putting out better, more compelling product that people want to hear, which in turn drives ratings, which in turn increases cash flow with additional spot revenues, which in turn increases the value of the stations they are on, which in turn, encourages other station owners and managers to put them on."
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Absolutely. People learn about government from those people. This is good radio.
Critics of Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck more often than not don't respond to what arguments are made by
those talk show hosts with anything more than mindless invective...that they are 'fat', 'stupid',
'racist', 'jingoistic', etc.
The reason they are currently winning in the opinion polls is that there is no intelligible response to
what they're saying--just transparent and shallow lies and name calling. The AirAmerica sort of radio
hasn't earned any credibility and hence no audience share. Maybe it's because there IS NO rational
response to the facts as laid out by the Right. I'm wondering if the Left will ever even try. I'd like to
hear it instead of the nonsense they put out currently which isn't convincing many other than the
already faithful. Few of the Rush/Sean/Beck critics seem to have even listened to them.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Maybe it's because there IS NO rational response to the facts as laid out by the Right. I'm wondering if the Left will ever even try.

O. K. This conversation will soon be dusting itself off and discovering it has been dumped into "Take It Outside".

There are rational responses to the claims made by those who speak for the right.
There are rational responses to the claims made by those who speak for the left.
There is apparently no financially rewarding format for broadcasting rational thinking, so it is absent from the airwaves. So we are left with the rational action of turning on a 52-minute music hour. (Which means radio still sucks if you are not a lover of today's music.) ;D

We don't hear much of anything rational on the radio today so that is why our national political process sucks.

So that leaves us with the original topics: The implied statement that radio sucks. And the question as to why radio sucks.

 

[WTFman]

"O. K. This conversation will soon be dusting itself off and discovering it has been dumped into "Take It Outside".

There are rational responses to the claims made by those who speak for the right.
There are rational responses to the claims made by those who speak for the left.
There is apparently no financially rewarding format for broadcasting rational thinking, so it is absent from the airwaves. So we are left with the rational action of turning on a 52-minute music hour. (Which means radio still sucks if you are not a lover of today's music.)

We don't hear much of anything rational on the radio today so that is why our national political process sucks.

So that leaves us with the original topics: The implied statement that radio sucks. And the question as to why radio sucks."
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I listen to a lot of Books On CD, Tape, MP3, etc.
Tiptoeing away from the edge of "outside :", I guess I'd have to agree with you about some things you
wrote. This thread is about "Why radio sucks". I guess I could start a thread concerning "Why radio
does NOT suck" if I wanted to sing the praises of some of today's Talk Radio Hosts or make claims
concerning the presence of rationality that seems to go unrecognized. I'm not sure it would get so many
posts or views as this one, but it might be refreshing for a change. I'll leave it to another for now.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I guess I could start a thread concerning "Why radio does NOT suck" if I wanted to sing the praises of some of today's Talk Radio Hosts or make claims concerning the presence of rationality that seems to go unrecognized. I'm not sure it would get so many posts or views as this one, but it might be refreshing for a change. I'll leave it to another for now.

Your response helped me grab hold of another way of looking at this conversation.

If I go to the grocery store I will be looking for products that I like. You can stock 175 different kinds of bread and as long as you have the one brand I am looking for, I buy it and I am not offended that you offer others.

If I go to buy a car this afternoon (which I should) there is one brand, one model that really has my attention but I will look and a couple of others. The fact that there are other brands being merchandised up and down "automobile row" does not offend me.... does not "pinch" my freedoms.

If I choose to enter a liquor store and purchase a favorite variety of wine, as long as they have what I want I am not unhappy that other product is also there.

If I were single and come Friday night I shined and polished myself and went to various 'social locations" in hopes of making contact with someone that felt attracted to, I would not be offended that other candidates were present in the room that did not catch my attention.

So, much of the discussion we have about radio follows the logic I have expressed with four different examples. The question many would ask an opinionated old grouch like me is: "What's your beef? Listen to what you like and ignore the rest."

It's the American way.

There are two concepts that muddy the water air when it comes to radio: (1)Availability vs. crowded-out. (2) religious/morality style mentality.

If there are 14 tiny little markets in my community and they all carry only two brands of bread, and not a single one markets my favorite bread, I will likely rise up and shout: "Grocery Markets Suck!"

If I have religious or morality based concepts about alcoholic beverages I may be offended that my market carries ONE alcoholic product, much less 175. If I go out on Friday night in search of a lifelong companion and all I find are women who are interested in an evening involving a financial transaction, I may rise up and shout: "This social event sucks" if I have religious or moral issues about sexuality.

If I turn on my radio and I don't like rock music but all 14 radio stations are carrying the same music, I will be grousing about the (1)Availability vs. crowded-out syndrome.

If I turn on my radio and I want News/Talk but all 14 stations are carrying talkers all proclaiming an almost identical political discussion, I may suffer double-disappointment. (1)the Crowded-Out Syndrome may be a complaint. (2) The Religious/Morality-Style Mentality may be a complaint.

Think about it for a minute. If you woke up some morning and every radio station in town was featuring "sermons" from the newly formed religious group: "The Pentecostal Seventh-Day Adventist Orthodox Amish Freedom fighters" there would likely be murmuring in the community that "NOW radio REALLY sucks". There would be suggestion to legislators that it was time for some variety in programming. Advertisers would find listeners taking and old, old page from Bobby Knight's playbook and walking into the showroom to take a dump in the center of the room. And the Radio-Info forum would be a tool suitable for lighting cigarettes.

I don't know how we would discuss it and remain civil, but maybe our discussion would progress better if we could recognize that "political discussion" in America has become highly inclusive with ingredients that are religious and morality thinking, not just what we have always considered garden variety political and civil discussion.