Why doesn't country work in SF?

Jeffrey · Nov 14, 2005

With all the talk about the lack of country radio in the NYC. market where the CMA's are being held this year I'm wondering if the reasons country doesn't work in SF. are similar to those in New York.

It appears the consensus is that NY. is too ethnically diverse to support a full power country station on a city signal.
It also appears that New Yorkers and advertisers are extemely biast against the format.
New York hasn't had a successful country station since the 80's with WHN-AM.
All 3 tried country stations failed miserably.

I know SF. had tried a country station about a year ago but it soon failed.
Just wondering why.
______________
www.airamericaradio.com

BossRadioDJ · Nov 14, 2005

Jeffrey wrote:

> I'm wondering if the reasons country doesn't work in SF are similar to those in New York.

Having lived in New York and in San Francisco, I'm going to guess that a lot of it has to do with the music.

I'll qualify this by saying that I grew up listening to country music -- my dad was originally from Texas and he listened to KVSM, KEEN and KSAY back in the 1950s and 1960s (back when there were several Country stations on the air here) -- so I'm not a "hater." I'm still a big fan of Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams (Sr. and Jr.) ... heck, I even like Buck Owens, Glen Campbell and Merle Haggard.

I will also qualify this by saying I have sampled Country radio from stations across the country over the past few years, and the music bores me to death.

The biggest problem I have is that the music all sounds the same. Sure, there are a few that "break out of the mold," but the basics sound the same today as they did in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and so on. It's neither interesting or innovative, and it lacks creativity for the most part.

The size of the Bay Area country music audience is probably (and proportionally) the same as it is in New York. And it is probably as ethnically and educationally diverse. Country music may work in the so-called "Red States," and in the "Red Counties" of rural California where so many sons and daughters of the South migrated, but in the metropolitan areas it's a hard sell.

Around here, there may be people that love country music. Unfortunately, there aren't enough non-country lovers that will be persuaded to switch to make a huge ratings impact.

DJ______________
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paulsecic · Nov 15, 2005

There is always KRTY in San Jose. I remeber KEEN & KSAY but not KVSM. Also there was KRAK in Sacramento..

Jeffrey wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering if the reasons country doesn't work in SF
> are similar to those in New York.
>
> Having lived in New York and in San Francisco, I'm going to
> guess that a lot of it has to do with the music.
>
> I'll qualify this by saying that I grew up listening to
> country music -- my dad was originally from Texas and he
> listened to KVSM, KEEN and KSAY back in the 1950s and 1960s
> (back when there were several Country stations on the air
> here) -- so I'm not a "hater." I'm still a big fan of Willie
> Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams (Sr. and
> Jr.) ... heck, I even like Buck Owens, Glen Campbell and
> Merle Haggard.
>
> I will also qualify this by saying I have sampled Country
> radio from stations across the country over the past few
> years, and the music bores me to death.
>
> The biggest problem I have is that the music all sounds the
> same. Sure, there are a few that "break out of the mold,"
> but the basics sound the same today as they did in the
> 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and so on. It's neither interesting or
> innovative, and it lacks creativity for the most part.
>
> The size of the Bay Area country music audience is probably
> (and proportionally) the same as it is in New York. And it
> is probably as ethnically and educationally diverse. Country
> music may work in the so-called "Red States," and in the
> "Red Counties" of rural California where so many sons and
> daughters of the South migrated, but in the metropolitan
> areas it's a hard sell.
>
> Around here, there may be people that love country music.
> Unfortunately, there aren't enough non-country lovers that
> will be persuaded to switch to make a huge ratings impact.
>
> DJ
>

BossRadioDJ · Nov 15, 2005

> There is always KRTY in San Jose. I remeber KEEN & KSAY but
> not KVSM. Also there was KRAK in Sacramento..

KVSM was the daytime-only station on 1050 from San Mateo, which later became KOFY (and is now KTCT).

I forgot all about KRAK ("Crack Ray-dee-oh, Eleven-four-ohhhhh"), which was probably more of a staple in our household than all of the others. I still have hundreds of old KRAK music surveys from back in the day...

Funny that there isn't at least an AM station playing Country around here.

DJ______________
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semoochie · Nov 16, 2005

> > There is always KRTY in San Jose. I remeber KEEN & KSAY
> but
> > not KVSM. Also there was KRAK in Sacramento..
>
> KVSM was the daytime-only station on 1050 from San Mateo,
> which later became KOFY (and is now KTCT).
>
> I forgot all about KRAK ("Crack Ray-dee-oh,
> Eleven-four-ohhhhh"), which was probably more of a staple in
> our household than all of the others. I still have hundreds
> of old KRAK music surveys from back in the day...
>
> Funny that there isn't at least an AM station playing
> Country around here.
>
> DJ
>
Didn't KNEW have a pretty good run and what about KSAN?

RadioJunkieMike · Nov 16, 2005

>> Didn't KNEW have a pretty good run and what about KSAN? <<

Yes and Yes.

KNEW was country for years and then, when they got the bright idea to become Classic Country in 1996, they went from a .4 to a 1.8 in 18 months (kind of amazing for a music format on AM). But Cheap Channel decided to fire everybody (including the great Sully Roddy) and replace them with ABC's syndicated "Real Country". Within 6 months they were back to zero. C-Net Radio followed soon after.

paulsecic · Nov 16, 2005

> >> Didn't KNEW have a pretty good run and what about KSAN?
>
93.3 was Country for a while. I took a tour of KSAN/KNEW's studios accross the street from the KPIX building around 1991-92.

BnRinBayArea · Nov 17, 2005

Country can be a viable format in the Bay Area, but it needs to be done correctly! KRTY has done an awesome job in San Jose, and KSAN did well until about '95 (when Chancellor Broadcasting got CHEAP).

The staff of a country station needs to understand it's listeners, they're unlike ANY other in radio. They're very devoted and passionate. It would be easy to offend a hard-core listener by "cheapening" the product.

Having worked on air at both KRTY and KSAN, I've encountered at least a little of the "how to" and "how not to". With the ultra-tight music rotation of "young/hot country" behind us, this format may increase it's viability by broadening it's gold-base, just a bit (80's/90's).

95.7 The Bear in SF could have worked, if it had the right PD. Ray Massie was the wrong captain to sail that ship...but he may have been trapped within the corporate guidelines of Bonneville. I shouldn't make excuses for him, for as an individual, he was less than honest and unreliable.

I'd like to see country come back to SF, but it may take Julie to move from SJ/95.3 to do it, correctly (and I'm guessing that would NEVER) happen.

...there's my 2cents, ya'll

> With all the talk about the lack of country radio in the
> NYC. market where the CMA's are being held this year I'm
> wondering if the reasons country doesn't work in SF. are
> similar to those in New York.
>
> It appears the consensus is that NY. is too ethnically
> diverse to support a full power country station on a city
> signal.
> It also appears that New Yorkers and advertisers are
> extemely biast against the format.
> New York hasn't had a successful country station since the
> 80's with WHN-AM.
> All 3 tried country stations failed miserably.
>
> I know SF. had tried a country station about a year ago but
> it soon failed.
> Just wondering why.
>