Speaking of WBAI, when they moved their signal from the Empire State Building to 4 Times Square, its coverage remained about the same. Being that the rent there is much cheaper than at ESB, why don't other stations make the switch? While they are not in the awful financial shape of 'BAI and its owner Pacifica, even the large radio corporations seem to be keen on saving money.
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Why Don't More Stations Transmit From 4 Times Square?
- Thread starter Barry
- Start date
Several TV and FM stations use Conde Nast for backups and some use it for their main site including WBGO, WKCR, WNYE, and at least one TV station.
WFMU's translator, W220EJ is only ten watts but is omni-directional and covers all of Manhattan from that site, nicely.
This article is close to a decade old but is still fairly accurate on all that is happening up there.
If I lived there, more than half of my radio presets would be drawing from that site.
To answer your question, with all due respect to coverage maps, height is most important in dealing with multi-path scattering such as in the canyan.
WFMU's translator, W220EJ is only ten watts but is omni-directional and covers all of Manhattan from that site, nicely.
This article is close to a decade old but is still fairly accurate on all that is happening up there.
If I lived there, more than half of my radio presets would be drawing from that site.
To answer your question, with all due respect to coverage maps, height is most important in dealing with multi-path scattering such as in the canyan.
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1. Even though 4TS is only about one half mile from ESB, short spacing is likely to impact ERP for stations moving from ESB to 4TS. Additionally if another previously full spaced station moved in to minimum 73.215 distance to an ESB station, this would need to be considered and resolved as it could theoretically prevent the ESB station from moving to 4TS as a Class B.
2. Aren't 4TS auxes about 100 feet lower than ESB mains? It is correct that ESB could eventually become significantly blocked in. This would be a challenge, considering point #1 above.
3. Regarding building penetration: Going from 6 KW at ESB to 7.1 KW at 4TS is about 0.72 db which is less than a 10 percent increase in signal strength.
In my opinion 10 percent increase is not going to change perception of building penetration.
2. Aren't 4TS auxes about 100 feet lower than ESB mains? It is correct that ESB could eventually become significantly blocked in. This would be a challenge, considering point #1 above.
3. Regarding building penetration: Going from 6 KW at ESB to 7.1 KW at 4TS is about 0.72 db which is less than a 10 percent increase in signal strength.
In my opinion 10 percent increase is not going to change perception of building penetration.
Also- antenna vertical elevation patterns need to be considered. Differences here can have a much bigger impact on close-in signal strength than minor ERP changes. Good chance 4TS engineers and engineers for ESB stations have analyzed it. That would be a great study to do. It may be determined 4TS auxes have greater predicted signal strength at more building locations than ESB mains. Or maybe not. And the one half mile move is a big deal for signal strength when it comes down to counting buildings in a very dense area.
Regardless, what a great radio problem to have... owning a Class B on ESB in New York and coping with anxiety about signal. ;-)
Best regards to all.
Regardless, what a great radio problem to have... owning a Class B on ESB in New York and coping with anxiety about signal. ;-)
Best regards to all.
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That's the point I'm thinking about. The density of tall buildings increases as you move uptown. And it seems to me you're more concerned with east-west than north-south, because the population concentration is greater east-west.
Moving to 4TS means it’s a half mile further from Philadelphia but it’s a half mile closer to Hartford.
Moving to the World Trade Center will significantly reduce building penetration. Also, greater height also increases the effect of tropospheric ducting. The signal gets sucked into the duct only to come down over 100 miles away.
Moving to the World Trade Center will significantly reduce building penetration. Also, greater height also increases the effect of tropospheric ducting. The signal gets sucked into the duct only to come down over 100 miles away.
I noticed a weaker signal on WBAI once it moved to 4TS. Even though a station at 1WTC would most likely get 3300 Watts, WPAT has a little more than 4000 Watts at ESB so would that drop to 3300 Watts really make building penetration that much worse than ESB? I think the extra height would still be beneficial.
nkd- Consider visualizing tropospheric ducting as a flatter earth. What would happen if the effective radius of the earth changed sometimes due to weather effects?
djl- building penetration is determined by more factors than height vs ERP trade off. Has to be studied and measured on a case by case basis.
djl- building penetration is determined by more factors than height vs ERP trade off. Has to be studied and measured on a case by case basis.
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One of the first considerations is whether a building is also surrounded or in the vicinity of other similar height or higher structures which can cause attenuation or multipath.
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