Why don't smooth jazz stations just pull their streams instead of flipping?

[icycool7227]

Many smooth jazz stations stream online. If the format isn't making money why are they not just pulling the streams then? I mean that cost has to be very expensive in the long run after reading all these articles of increasing royalties.

I have to add while I love streaming radio, I would love to see this format continue instead of dying out.

 

[thenewageriseth]

Many smooth jazz stations stream online. If the format isn't making money why are they not just pulling the streams then? I mean that cost has to be very expensive in the long run after reading all these articles of increasing royalties.

I have to add while I love streaming radio, I would love to see this format continue instead of dying out.

Yeah, I'd hate to see it die out, myself. Been a loyal listener for years. :'(

 

[Bill Harmonic]

That's trying to patch a small hole in a dam that is bursting around the country. That's a very small problem in the overall picture that's far more complicated than just pulling the on-line stream. You need to start looking for alternative sources to get your contemporary instrumental fix.

 

[darksoldier]

That's trying to patch a small hole in a dam that is bursting around the country. That's a very small problem in the overall picture that's far more complicated than just pulling the on-line stream. You need to start looking for alternative sources to get your contemporary instrumental fix.

Spot on Bill. Trying to save it on terrestrial is like trying to kill a gopher with a pitchfork. The internet is going to be the source more than likely. With smartphones, you can stream into the car just like with an ipod, and if you don't have a computer, you probably arent that "valuable" to the genre, or to its advertisers. With internet, the numbers are real, and the costs are less. What has to happen now, is we (listeners, programmers, and advertisers in the lifestyle/genre) have to stop watering it down with everyone doing their own thing, take a regional internet delivery approach, and support the new technology....and each other.

 

[AC Tones]

That's trying to patch a small hole in a dam that is bursting around the country. That's a very small problem in the overall picture that's far more complicated than just pulling the on-line stream. You need to start looking for alternative sources to get your contemporary instrumental fix.

Spot on Bill. Trying to save it on terrestrial is like trying to kill a gopher with a pitchfork. The internet is going to be the source more than likely. With smartphones, you can stream into the car just like with an ipod, and if you don't have a computer, you probably arent that "valuable" to the genre, or to its advertisers. With internet, the numbers are real, and the costs are less. What has to happen now, is we (listeners, programmers, and advertisers in the lifestyle/genre) have to stop watering it down with everyone doing their own thing, take a regional internet delivery approach, and support the new technology....and each other.

I completely agree with almost everything you say. What I don't follow is how "everyone doing their own thing" on the Internet waters the product down, and that we should take a "regional" approach. If anything, the more choices listeners have right now, the better, IMO. A similar-sounding, bland product is exactly what got us here to begin with. Not only do listeners have more choices with the Internet. They are exposed to more diverse programming, as well as a number of artists and music they would not otherwise be exposed to. One of my most loyal listeners tunes into Steve Quirk's jazzfm program when he is on the air, and tunes me in all other hours of the day. I believe that at least in the short term, the friendly "competition" (for lack of a better term--we ALL want this genre to survive for everyone on BOTH sides of the radio signal) can only serve to challenge us to deliver sharper and more creative programming. Otherwise, programmers run the risk losing the listeners they already have or may potentially gain, or even worse, lead us back down the same dead end road we are currently on.

I do think once everyone embraces the technology and Internet radio is accessible (and affordable, i.e., as far as mobile data and broadband plans go) anywhere during the hours when we are not sleeping, I can tell you I won't be able to run my station by myself like I do now and expect it to be a successful enterprise (if that is the direction I decide to go in). But until that day comes, I think we need to reach as many listeners across the globe as we possibly can. Not only do we owe this to those listeners who are craving the music we have embraced for well over 2 decades. But we also owe it to the talented and hard-working artists who have created it and are faced with a swiftly dwindling number of terrestrial outlets to play their music.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Chris

 

[darksoldier]

That's trying to patch a small hole in a dam that is bursting around the country. That's a very small problem in the overall picture that's far more complicated than just pulling the on-line stream. You need to start looking for alternative sources to get your contemporary instrumental fix.

Spot on Bill. Trying to save it on terrestrial is like trying to kill a gopher with a pitchfork. The internet is going to be the source more than likely. With smartphones, you can stream into the car just like with an ipod, and if you don't have a computer, you probably arent that "valuable" to the genre, or to its advertisers. With internet, the numbers are real, and the costs are less. What has to happen now, is we (listeners, programmers, and advertisers in the lifestyle/genre) have to stop watering it down with everyone doing their own thing, take a regional internet delivery approach, and support the new technology....and each other.

I completely agree with almost everything you say. What I don't follow is how "everyone doing their own thing" on the Internet waters the product down, and that we should take a "regional" approach. If anything, the more choices listeners have right now, the better, IMO. A similar-sounding, bland product is exactly what got us here to begin with. Not only do listeners have more choices with the Internet. They are exposed to more diverse programming, as well as a number of artists and music they would not otherwise be exposed to. One of my most loyal listeners tunes into Steve Quirk's jazzfm program when he is on the air, and tunes me in all other hours of the day. I believe that at least in the short term, the friendly "competition" (for lack of a better term--we ALL want this genre to survive for everyone on BOTH sides of the radio signal) can only serve to challenge us to deliver sharper and more creative programming. Otherwise, programmers run the risk losing the listeners they already have or may potentially gain, or even worse, lead us back down the same dead end road we are currently on.

I do think once everyone embraces the technology and Internet radio is accessible (and affordable, i.e., as far as mobile data and broadband plans go) anywhere during the hours when we are not sleeping, I can tell you I won't be able to run my station by myself like I do now and expect it to be a successful enterprise (if that is the direction I decide to go in). But until that day comes, I think we need to reach as many listeners across the globe as we possibly can. Not only do we owe this to those listeners who are craving the music we have embraced for well over 2 decades. But we also owe it to the talented and hard-working artists who have created it and are faced with a swiftly dwindling number of terrestrial outlets to play their music.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Chris

Chris,

In NO way am I saying there should be NO variety. You are absolutely correct in that has what placed us in this peril in the first place. I am speaking from more a standpoint of we don't tend to work together. It (everyone doing their own thing) doesn't water down the product...but at the same time there is little cooperation to really bring the smooth jazz community together. I guess I should have said that we shouldn't be Pi$$ing on each other, but supporting each other....BA ran out Jones...BA ran out stations....If they had taken two slightly varied roads to Damascus instead of BA running Jones OFF the road, we might not even be having this conversation. The problem is few tend to be happy with being happy...only in dominating to the point of self destruction. Finally, I think that we need to have a local and regional approach to content EVEN on an internet delivery platform, cross promote each other, and develope an online community like a (dare I say) myspace model, for jazz/smooth jazz folk to commune.

 

[AC Tones]

I completely agree, brother. We are on the same page for sure. I really can't speak to cross promotions and other aspects of the business side of radio, because I have never been in the business. I can only speak from a listener/hobby broadcaster's perspective. But I do think it is IMPERATIVE that eventually we (as in the very community you speak of, especially guys who can control their own programming) come together in some form or another. As to exactly how we do that, I am unsure. I guess this board is about the best example of that right now. But in the long run, we'll need more than this, much more. This is a great forum to exchange ideas and opinions, but sooner or later, a new generation of folks with both vision and capital need to take this product to where we know it can be, and it will certainly require cooperation and checking egos at the door. But it was also require more clever marketing of the product, with an aggressive sales staff that truly has a passion for this music and knows how to make people want to listen to it. That requires folks who have a true knowledge of the genre's history, artists, evolution, and its subsequent and unfortunate demise on terrestrial radio. But equally important, it requires management that has the realization that the genre never has been and probably never will be a big moneymaker. We cannot allow greed to drive our programming, because in my mind, the Internet is the final frontier and this might be our last real shot to make a lasting impact.

If there is one bright spot in what has happened to this format on radio over the last 18 months is that there appears to be a consensus that the Internet can potentially breathe life back into a genre that desperately needs it. My only point was that now is the perfect time to hone our skills, experiment with different approaches to programming, and try to figure out a way to get the hardcore NAC listeners permanently back into the fold to stay ahead of the curve (when Internet radio is not only commonplace, but the industry standard). And the more guys we have doing it (offering diverse programming and tweaking it as needed), and sharing their ideas/thoughts here about what is working and not working based on educated listener feedback, the better off we all will be in the long run when Internet radio rules the day.

Chris

 

[Nock]

I think that we need to have a local and regional approach to content EVEN on an internet delivery platform, cross promote each other, and develope an online community like a (dare I say) myspace model, for jazz/smooth jazz folk to commune.
[/quote]

Check out jazzmatrix.com for your "myspace model" for the jazz folk. Put together by Chris Standring. When there search "the future of jazz" for me.

Nock

 

[AC Tones]

Check out jazzmatrix.com for your "myspace model" for the jazz folk. Put together by Chris Standring. When there search "the future of jazz" for me.

Nock
[/quote]

Nock is right. Jazzmatrix.com is a great site. Chris has done a great job there in just a few months, and I have gotten in touch with a number of folks through them. But I have to admit, with My Space, Facebook, and Jazzmatrix, there just aren't enough hours in the day for me to stay as active as I would like. Between the young kids, my full-time job, and trying my best to maintain the station, life can get pretty crazy to say the least. Did I mention the two dogs, two rats (wife's idea, I swear), tropical fish, and a partridge in a pear tree??

Chris

 

[darksoldier]

I think that we need to have a local and regional approach to content EVEN on an internet delivery platform, cross promote each other, and develope an online community like a (dare I say) myspace model, for jazz/smooth jazz folk to commune.

Check out jazzmatrix.com for your "myspace model" for the jazz folk. Put together by Chris Standring. When there search "the future of jazz" for me.

Nock
[/quote]

Haven't searched the future of jazz yet but just went to the site...BINGO! I will be putting a link on smoothjazz1480.com to support it today! By the way guys...check out smoothjazz1480.com and give input

 

[AC Tones]

Just checked out 1480's site and stream. Listening to Lorber's "Chopsticks" as a write. Very nice quality, even at 32kbps. Had no idea you guys are now locally programmed. Perhaps you posted awhile back and I missed it. Best of luck with it, man!! Certainly sounds better than the garbage BA playlist posted on the website (I am sure you guys are working on getting rid of that). I know you have plenty of folks in Ohio who love this product, so as long as you give the people what they want, I am people will tune in. Like I said before, it's not like folks have a ton of choices these days.

Peace,

Chris

 

[AC Tones]

Listening to Lorber's "Chopsticks" as a write.

OOPS, I meant "Gigabyte." I always seem to mix those two tunes up :-[

 

[AnotherCat]

check out smoothjazz1480.com and give input

I tried and all I got was the logo, the menu bar and a blank/black screen below. No content...

 

[StevenCee]

Just damn...... I had written a quite extensive piece on the issue of Smooth Jazz radio's recent demise, but when I went to post it, I guess my login had expired, and when I re-logged in, it erased my entire post! SH*T......

Anyway, since I'm not about to rewrite the entire response, I'll just mention some of the points I made:

1. There IS still a viable market for Smooth/Contemporary Jazz radio.

2. Russ Davis, who pioneered the genre of radio here in Atlanta, taking a Sunday night lark of a show, into a 7 night a week 5 hour powerhouse, (& this was on a Top 40 station) was anything but programmed or used a limited playlist. Unfortunately, when he moved on to NY, the two Smooth Jazz stations since, failed to use the successful format & model he employed, instead buying into the nationally programmed, limited, boring, and not a damn bit "local" hype all the others did.

3. Since the most recent one's demise, there is a huge void & lack of sure way of getting out any word of major artist concerts, local events, & local album releases, etc., out to the public, which here tended to be a black/white mix, and generally up-scale one, economically.

4. If there were other points, I can't think of them now.....

 

[AC Tones]

Hey StevenCee. I was able to read your post on this thread by researching the recent posts you made. But when I try to click on it from the main Smooth Jazz page, it isn't there ???. Hopefully I don't get banned for doing this (not sure why the post cannot be read--I see nothing vulgar or offensive in it), but I thought folks here would want to read it and probably largely agree with what you have to say (see the below copied quoted text).

Peace,

Chris

Just damn...... I had written a quite extensive piece on the issue of Smooth Jazz radio's recent demise, but when I went to post it, I guess my login had expired, and when I re-logged in, it erased my entire post! SH*T......

Anyway, since I'm not about to rewrite the entire response, I'll just mention some of the points I made:

1. There IS still a viable market for Smooth/Contemporary Jazz radio.

2. Russ Davis, who pioneered the genre of radio here in Atlanta, taking a Sunday night lark of a show, into a 7 night a week 5 hour powerhouse, (& this was on a Top 40 station) was anything but programmed or used a limited playlist. Unfortunately, when he moved on to NY, the two Smooth Jazz stations since, failed to use the successful format & model he employed, instead buying into the nationally programmed, limited, boring, and not a damn bit "local" hype all the others did.

3. Since the most recent one's demise, there is a huge void & lack of sure way of getting out any word of major artist concerts, local events, & local album releases, etc., out to the public, which here tended to be a black/white mix, and generally up-scale one, economically.

4. If there were other points, I can't think of them now.....

 

[darksoldier]

check out smoothjazz1480.com and give input

I tried and all I got was the logo, the menu bar and a blank/black screen below. No content...

Don't know what the problem may have been, but try it again. I have never had that problem unless it was refreshing from BA playlist? That will be gone VERY shortly...As soon as I get the info pushed properly from automation to the site.

 

[AnotherCat]

It came up..does blank out when playlist refreshes. The playlist on the site is still BA? Really old Temptations song and lots of covers?

 

[darksoldier]

It came up..does blank out when playlist refreshes. The playlist on the site is still BA? Really old Temptations song and lots of covers?

Yes...still BA playlist showing. Working on that, plus the migration of the oldies station to the former smoothjazz 1480 facility....

 

[Questor]

Re: More is NOT better

I completely agree with almost everything you say.  What I don't follow is how "everyone doing their own thing" on the Internet waters the product down, and that we should take a "regional" approach.  If anything, the more choices listeners have right now, the better, IMO. 

(NOTE:  subject line changed from smooth jazz to "More is NOT better.")

I'd like to politely disagree (ha!) with this using 2 books. 

I must say first, however, like you I was a big fan of the Internet Isley Brothers approach of "It's Your Thing, Do What You Want to Do."   No more -- are you really finding it easier to find stuff on the Internet, or has it become a chore?  Moreover, in other parts of your life, do you feel you're really off with more choices or do you sometimes wonder where your time has gone?

Here are the 2 books I'd like for readers to consider:
1.  The Cult of the Amateur, by Andrew Keen
2.  The Paradox of Choice -- Why More is Less, by Barry Schwartz

#1 - Andrew Keen is not a Luddite by any stretch of the imagination.  He founded various Web companies in 1995.  So in a sense, you could say he's created this fine mess.  He's a bit of a contrarian lately against Web 2.0.  He doesn't believe it's necessarily a good thing that any monkey with a typewriter can publish a blog, post videos on YouTube, launch Web sites, etc.

I agree too.  I hate now that when I use Google, I get a lot of irrelevant garbage.  Many times it's people blogging 140 times more irrelevant stuff than latte-spilling Twitter when what I really want is high-quality secondary research for marketing purposes.

Also, Doug Stephan's Good Day recently had a guest for a place called BlogTalkRadio.  The notion was anybody could publish their own talk show.  At first I liked it.  I've thought similar to artists like Radiohead, why wait until some label declares you to be good just to get recognized?  I also thought people tell me I've got good ideas, particularly in promotions and careers, so why not?  Then I saw ALL those people with their blog talks.  I had problem finding some of them.  I then thought, "How would anyone ever find me?"  Sorry, I won't waste my time searching nor posting there.  (I prefer here!)

#2 - Barry Schwartz challenges the notion of more and more choices.  Ages ago when we went to work, our wardrobe was fairly limited.  A suit and tie was typical, or maybe slacks and a long sleeve shirt.  Then came business casual.  Now when we go to work or play, we have to go through a lot of choices: absolute casual, business casual, sporty, professional, etc.  And then you have to wonder are you overdressed, underdressed?  (That can really cost a sale in some places from California to New York -- both ways!)

Barry also gives an example of 6 chocolates vs. 25 chocolates.  At one tasting, people could really remember the choices.  Those who attended the 6-chocolate affair bought boxes.  At the other, people's ability to taste blurred after trying 10.  They couldn't really remember well the differences, and didn't buy as much.

Want to know what's a real nightmare nowadays?  Choosing a digital camera!  Or choosing a cell phone.  There's so many to choose from -- is that a good thing?  And can you really tell the difference between them all?  And don't you feel that if you don't examine every feature and price that you might miss out on something?  You, personally, perhaps not.  Many other potential customers do, and they don't buy.  After you look at phone after phone, camera after camera, your mind goes numb.

Schwartz's book was in Men's Health.  If I'm asked name a book that changed my life, that's one of them.  It's told me to concentrate only on things that  matter, at home and at work.

Earlier when this gluttony started, Bruce Springsteen said "57 Channels and nothing's on."  Building on his initials, I don't agree that more content by everybody is better.  To me it's just more B.S.

(Sorry, wish I could have chosen a smooth jazz artist instead. I need to take a pause for the Koz.)

 

[AC Tones]

Re: More is NOT better

I completely agree with almost everything you say. What I don't follow is how "everyone doing their own thing" on the Internet waters the product down, and that we should take a "regional" approach. If anything, the more choices listeners have right now, the better, IMO.

(NOTE: subject line changed from smooth jazz to "More is NOT better.")

And can you really tell the difference between them all?...To me it's just more B.S.

As far as this genre goes, I can ABSOLUTELY tell the difference. I do not believe the analogy to chocolates and wine is at all applicable in that there are plenty of fine producers (both big and small) for both commodities from which to choose. Those who consistently put out a product consumers enjoy will thrive and attract new patrons who have discriminating taste who can distinguish the good from the bad. We all know what a syndicated Smooth Jazz product controlling the airwaves playing the same garbage in cities throughout the nation has done to the genre. It has burried two of its flagship carriers, and more will fall, you can take that one to the bank.

You're 100% correct, there is plenty of "B.S." out there, but the Internet is not to blame. At the end of the day, the alternatives to that which is being offered currently on terrestrial radio are FAR better. People have CHOSEN not to listen to "Smooth Jazz" because they are fed up with the product radio offers these days. Why not give listeners somewhere else to go? I would gladly drive a hundred miles for a bottle of Stag's Leap if all they sold around the corner was Thunderbird.

Chris