Why DX AM or FM at all?

[rbrucecarter5]

Why do you even DX on AM in this day and age at all?

BIGGEST REASON: To put enough signal into an HD radio to get decode AT ALL!

I was about to make a mistake last week - to give HD radio a chance and get one of the Sangean component tuners. Kind of difficult because my local Best Buy (in a major suburb of Dallas) has never even heard of Sangean - let alone HD radio. But I thought I would give it a try since $200 is pocket change to me anyway.

Fortunately - I got yet another inquiry from an HD radio enthusiast / turned disgruntled sceptic, one using the very model I was considering purchasing. He happens to be equidistant from one of the AM IBOC stations, and is 4 times closer to the local FM towers. His report:

Only 12 to 15 miles out - he has big problems receiving FM. Part of it is his proximity to a major airport, and the multipath from aircraft takeoffs and landings was causing his HD to drop in and out (I thought HD was supposed to STOP multipath problems). My advice - get a deep fringe outdoor FM antenna and hope its front to back ratio is large enough to attenuate the multipath. Since I am 4 times farther away from those same towers, and the same airport is in the way of my reception as well, and there is a another suburban airport in the way as well, I consider MY chances of HD reception to be low.

Only 25 miles away from an AM station - and using a Terk AM Advantage loop - he has intermittant MONO HD reception. The Terk AM Advantage packs many dB of gain into the front end of AM radios, so this, too, is not encouraging to say the least. My advice to him - construct a FOUR FOOT box loop antenna - similar to the ones I use for 1000 mile DAYTIME reception of 50 kW AM stations. Incidentally, this report is on the same station that I was able to receive static free C-Quam AM stereo - 290 miles out! Contrast static free AM stereo at 290 miles against 25 mile HD MONO reception. Pathetic. And - at 290 miles, it was in a canyon with reflective sides! The station in question is only 5 kW, but is low band and a daytime blowtorch. At least its analog signal.

Given these reception reports, I decided against buying the Sangean. It is very obvious that this system is not robust enough for suburban reception. Given all the HD hype from advocates, I am getting a little tired of:

(1) The claims that HD eliminates reception problems. The exact opposite is proving true, from the number of emails I've been getting.

(2) I am also tired of giving out free engineering advice from HD advocates who get home only to find they can't get HD. I need to start charging engineering consultant rates. I am tired of doing Ibiquity's job for them - they designed this defective, screwball system, now let them start offering free advice on how to DX - LOCAL stations.

(3) I am really tired of hearing over and over again - just get an HD radio and you will become a believer. Not likely if it takes decades of DX experience just to get reliable decode on local stations. I don't want to hear how reliable this system is. It isn't, and I've logged the hours telling people how to make it work to prove my point.

 

[Mike Walker]

Then I've got to say the model you were considering purchasing sucks, or a suck-ass antenna was in use.

I could post a picture of the face of my radio displaying "WMIT HD" in Black Mountain (near Asheville NC)...from 100 miles away...rock solid. Or "WFBC HD' from Greenville SC, more than 100 miles away. These are routine, solid 'round the clock catches.

With any digital transmission method, you've got to get a clean data stream. Ideally, a high gain antenna pointed straight at the tower (though less elaborate methods often work just fine for 60 miles or more).

Now AM HD? I don't got none o' dat!

 

[R.F. Burns]

Why do you even DX on AM in this day and age at all?

BIGGEST REASON: To put enough signal into an HD radio to get decode AT ALL!

I was about to make a mistake last week - to give HD radio a chance and get one of the Sangean component tuners. Kind of difficult because my local Best Buy (in a major suburb of Dallas) has never even heard of Sangean - let alone HD radio. But I thought I would give it a try since $200 is pocket change to me anyway.

Fortunately - I got yet another inquiry from an HD radio enthusiast / turned disgruntled sceptic, one using the very model I was considering purchasing. He happens to be equidistant from one of the AM IBOC stations, and is 4 times closer to the local FM towers. His report:

Only 12 to 15 miles out - he has big problems receiving FM. Part of it is his proximity to a major airport, and the multipath from aircraft takeoffs and landings was causing his HD to drop in and out (I thought HD was supposed to STOP multipath problems). My advice - get a deep fringe outdoor FM antenna and hope its front to back ratio is large enough to attenuate the multipath. Since I am 4 times farther away from those same towers, and the same airport is in the way of my reception as well, and there is a another suburban airport in the way as well, I consider MY chances of HD reception to be low.

Only 25 miles away from an AM station - and using a Terk AM Advantage loop - he has intermittant MONO HD reception. The Terk AM Advantage packs many dB of gain into the front end of AM radios, so this, too, is not encouraging to say the least. My advice to him - construct a FOUR FOOT box loop antenna - similar to the ones I use for 1000 mile DAYTIME reception of 50 kW AM stations. Incidentally, this report is on the same station that I was able to receive static free C-Quam AM stereo - 290 miles out! Contrast static free AM stereo at 290 miles against 25 mile HD MONO reception. Pathetic. And - at 290 miles, it was in a canyon with reflective sides! The station in question is only 5 kW, but is low band and a daytime blowtorch. At least its analog signal.

Given these reception reports, I decided against buying the Sangean. It is very obvious that this system is not robust enough for suburban reception. Given all the HD hype from advocates, I am getting a little tired of:

(1) The claims that HD eliminates reception problems. The exact opposite is proving true, from the number of emails I've been getting.

(2) I am also tired of giving out free engineering advice from HD advocates who get home only to find they can't get HD. I need to start charging engineering consultant rates. I am tired of doing Ibiquity's job for them - they designed this defective, screwball system, now let them start offering free advice on how to DX - LOCAL stations.

(3) I am really tired of hearing over and over again - just get an HD radio and you will become a believer. Not likely if it takes decades of DX experience just to get reliable decode on local stations. I don't want to hear how reliable this system is. It isn't, and I've logged the hours telling people how to make it work to prove my point.

What are you using for an antenna? I have both the HDT-1 and the HDT-1X and both are extremely sensitive. The HDT-1 got an excellent write up in Monitoring Times and one point they brought up was the radios sensitivity. I am in NY and can receive an 8 watt station from 20+ miles away and a 11 watt station from 50 miles south with this radio. I've posted audio samples. On the commercial band I get full quieting reception of WKXW, NJ 101.5 which is in Trenton. Trenton is nearly 90 miles southwest of me. Finally I receive all the NY HD signals as well as WAWZ HD 1, 2, & 3 from Zaraphath, NJ. Zaraphath is over 60 miles from my location. I use a TV antenna mounted in my attic. This antenna feeds 3 TV sets and is used as a backup for those times when weather takes my DirecTV signal away. I've posted audio on all of this. I'm not making it up. If your radio isn't working properly I'd suggest a call to Sangean who will fix it for you. They are offering to adjust the high line level output and fix the clock issue which some of the radios have. Sangean is an excellent company and very willing to work with their customers.

 

[Chuck]

Bruce,

I think you'd like the Sangean tuner even if it never picked up ANY HD stations. In fact, you might want to get the latest version which has the ability to lock the HD part off. My HDT-1 is an absolutely amazing tuner on FM. I really can't say for sure about its AM abilities. Where I live, there isn't much to listen to on AM and currently I don't even have the AM antenna connected.

If you are in a situation with lots of first and second adjacent channels on FM, and last I looked that is definitely the case it the DFW area, this thing does a great job of rejecting adjacent channel interference. It also has remarkable sensitivity, or at least mine does.

I was skeptical until one of our translators was hit by lightning, so "just in case" I brought the HDT-2 along as a back up for the Fanfare receiver that is the usual program source. The problem turned out to have nothing to do with the receiver, but in my experimentation, I found that the Sangean was capable of receiving a reasonably clean stereo signal (with RDS display) from our "mother station" on 104.7, while it was literally sitting on the top cover of a transmitter running 305 watts TPO. It transmits on 105.3. The Sangean was connected to an antenna located on the same tower as the two bay transmitting antennas, about 70 feet below the center of radiation. Keep in mind that this is the extreme fringe for the 104.7 signal which is only 74 watts to begin with. I’m talking “weak signal.”

Even with some very expensive filters added to the front end, I’d never been able to get the Fanfare to work quietly in stereo in this situation. In fact, in normal usage, the Fanfare is connected to an antenna about 200 feet from the tower which receives the signal of another translator on 101.9. This was done to keep the RF from the local transmitter from swamping the front end of the tuner, especially in situations of tropospheric ducting and fluctuating signal strength. The Sangean exhibited none of these problems, and worked fine without the additional filters. I thought that was quite impressive, since the Fanfare is one of the best FM tuners you can buy.

For $200 it's quite a bargain. It does not have the build quality of the Fanfare and does not include some of the necessary features for translator use, but it is still a very impressive tuner.

I got mine from Fry's on Northwest Highway in Dallas. Finding an employee who had a clue what I was talking about was another story, but consider that Fry’s and Radio Shack pull from the same labor pool, that was no surprise. You can probably do better buying it on the net.

 

[vistasuxx]

Bruce,

I think you'd like the Sangean tuner even if it never picked up ANY HD stations. In fact, you might want to get the latest version which has the ability to lock the HD part off. My HDT-1 is an absolutely amazing tuner on FM. I really can't say for sure about its AM abilities. Where I live, there isn't much to listen to on AM and currently I don't even have the AM antenna connected.

If you are in a situation with lots of first and second adjacent channels on FM, and last I looked that is definitely the case it the DFW area, this thing does a great job of rejecting adjacent channel interference. It also has remarkable sensitivity, or at least mine does.

I was skeptical until one of our translators was hit by lightning, so "just in case" I brought the HDT-2 along as a back up for the Fanfare receiver that is the usual program source. The problem turned out to have nothing to do with the receiver, but in my experimentation, I found that the Sangean was capable of receiving a reasonably clean stereo signal (with RDS display) from our "mother station" on 104.7, while it was literally sitting on the top cover of a transmitter running 305 watts TPO. It transmits on 105.3. The Sangean was connected to an antenna located on the same tower as the two bay transmitting antennas, about 70 feet below the center of radiation. Keep in mind that this is the extreme fringe for the 104.7 signal which is only 74 watts to begin with. I’m talking “weak signal.”

Even with some very expensive filters added to the front end, I’d never been able to get the Fanfare to work quietly in stereo in this situation. In fact, in normal usage, the Fanfare is connected to an antenna about 200 feet from the tower which receives the signal of another translator on 101.9. This was done to keep the RF from the local transmitter from swamping the front end of the tuner, especially in situations of tropospheric ducting and fluctuating signal strength. The Sangean exhibited none of these problems, and worked fine without the additional filters. I thought that was quite impressive, since the Fanfare is one of the best FM tuners you can buy.

For $200 it's quite a bargain. It does not have the build quality of the Fanfare and does not include some of the necessary features for translator use, but it is still a very impressive tuner.

I got mine from Fry's on Northwest Highway in Dallas. Finding an employee who had a clue what I was talking about was another story, but consider that Fry’s and Radio Shack pull from the same labor pool, that was no surprise. You can probably do better buying it on the net.

So what you're saying is someone is actually making an HD tuner that isn't deaf?

 

[PhilJSmith67]

One of the salespersons at Fry's in Downers Grove, IL had a pretty good handle on the ups and downs of HD Radio, where I bought my Sangean HDR-1.

I am 40 miles directly south of the Chicago FMs in Beecher. It is relatively flat terrain, although my townhome is located on a street that is somewhat lower than its surroundings 1/4 mile away. I don't have problems keeping most of the Chicago HD Radio signals consistently locked, using a simple dipole which is "concealed" behind a bed headboard. Once in a while a chopper or a plane comes over and it hasn't had any effect on the signal, although I am not near a major airport (well not yet anyway!).

AM is a different story. I can only get a consistent lock on four Chicago AMs (50kW stations) during the day, plus a "fairly consistent" lock on a 10kW X-Bander. There cannot be lightning within 50 miles, otherwise the receiver loses lock repeatedly, for 4 to 8 seconds at a time. It's highly annoying. This is even at times when the analog signals have little to no audible interference at all.

The Sangean HDR-1 tuner itself is a fine piece of equipment, and I would continue to say that even if HD Radio left the air permanently tomorrow.

 

[Mike Walker]

Proposal for new law: Anyone who listens to an HD Radio INSIDE AT A FREAKIN' MALL or other steel structure, or most anywhere with a "T" antenna curled up and tossed behind the table, then claimed "it doesn't work" should be publically flogged. You might as well put your freakin' satellite dish in the basement. Makes as much damn sense.

FM HD can be received on simple, indoor antennas (if an outdoor option isn't available). But you've got to properly orient that antenna. Which is true of FM as well. I'm convinced that most people in the US must have never heard properly reproduced analog FM stereo if this is the thought they give to antennas, because in situations where HD just "doesn't work", fm stereo wouldn't work PROPERLY either.

 

[w9wi]

Proposal for new law: Anyone who listens to an HD Radio INSIDE AT A FREAKIN' MALL or other steel structure, or most anywhere with a "T" antenna curled up and tossed behind the table, then claimed "it doesn't work" should be publically flogged. You might as well put your freakin' satellite dish in the basement. Makes as much damn sense.

FM HD can be received on simple, indoor antennas (if an outdoor option isn't available). But you've got to properly orient that antenna. Which is true of FM as well. I'm convinced that most people in the US must have never heard properly reproduced analog FM stereo if this is the thought they give to antennas, because in situations where HD just "doesn't work", fm stereo wouldn't work PROPERLY either.

I have a set of TV rabbit ears connected to my HD radio. With proper orientation and location (on a writing table on the other side of the den) I do get reliable HD reception from two stations and occasional reception from a third. (probably a fourth, I believe their HD is off the air right now)

I'm single. From what my female friends say, if I were married to one of them that "ugly" antenna *would not* be in "their" house. Seriously, if listeners are getting a listenable signal from their favorite station with a T antenna on the floor, they *aren't* going to put an antenna in the middle of their room just to get HD.

(gotta stop leaning back in the chair, WCVQ-HD's delay isn't set properly & I'm hearing every verse twice as they pop in & out of digital...)

 

[Mike Walker]

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but ever heard of an attic? A roof? Before I got my new Antennacraft on the roof, my antenna was on the top shelf of my closet. As high as it's possible to get indoors (elements touching the ceiling), but invisible. Come on dude, I'm married, and I figured that one out. Antennas can be useful, AND invisible.

In other words, get more stations, AND.....(cue the Rascals) "Good Lovin'"

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Proposal for new law: Anyone who listens to an HD Radio INSIDE AT A FREAKIN' MALL or other steel structure, or most anywhere with a "T" antenna curled up and tossed behind the table, then claimed "it doesn't work" should be publically flogged. You might as well put your freakin' satellite dish in the basement. Makes as much damn sense.

FM HD can be received on simple, indoor antennas (if an outdoor option isn't available). But you've got to properly orient that antenna. Which is true of FM as well. I'm convinced that most people in the US must have never heard properly reproduced analog FM stereo if this is the thought they give to antennas, because in situations where HD just "doesn't work", fm stereo wouldn't work PROPERLY either.

Proposal for new law: Mike Walker should be forced, at gunpoint, to see exactly how many people listen to radios (HD or analog) without having to fiddle with, or even worry about, antenna orientation.

You still don't get it. We now have had two, and are well into the third, generation of radio users who don't worry about antennas. We're not talking about engineers, geeks or DXers here...just the average guy who wants to put his feet up on his chaise lounge and listen to his favorite tunes or the ball game. Suddenly, there's this new line of digital receivers which are deaf without antennas, properly connected and oriented. Do you really think Joe Average is going to bother? Of course not! He's going to take that new radio back to the store, complain that it doesn't work and demand that his money be refunded. The store clerk will try to explain that he needs an antenna, and his retort will be, "Whaddaya mean, antenna? I don't need no steenkin' antenna now, why should I need one with this new radio? Isn't it supposed ta be better than the old one?"

Unless these radios get several orders of magnitude more sensitive...in a big hurry...this tech is destined for the dustbin alongside AM stereo.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Proposal for new law: Anyone who listens to an HD Radio INSIDE AT A FREAKIN' MALL or other steel structure, or most anywhere with a "T" antenna curled up and tossed behind the table, then claimed "it doesn't work" should be publically flogged. You might as well put your freakin' satellite dish in the basement. Makes as much damn sense.

FM HD can be received on simple, indoor antennas (if an outdoor option isn't available). But you've got to properly orient that antenna. Which is true of FM as well. I'm convinced that most people in the US must have never heard properly reproduced analog FM stereo if this is the thought they give to antennas, because in situations where HD just "doesn't work", fm stereo wouldn't work PROPERLY either.

Proposal for new law: Mike Walker should be forced, at gunpoint, to see exactly how many people listen to radios (HD or analog) without having to fiddle with, or even worry about, antenna orientation.

You still don't get it. We now have had two, and are well into the third, generation of radio users who don't worry about antennas. We're not talking about engineers, geeks or DXers here...just the average guy who wants to put his feet up on his chaise lounge and listen to his favorite tunes or the ball game. Suddenly, there's this new line of digital receivers which are deaf without antennas, properly connected and oriented. Do you really think Joe Average is going to bother? Of course not! He's going to take that new radio back to the store, complain that it doesn't work and demand that his money be refunded. The store clerk will try to explain that he needs an antenna, and his retort will be, "Whaddaya mean, antenna? I don't need no steenkin' antenna now, why should I need one with this new radio? Isn't it supposed ta be better than the old one?"

Unless these radios get several orders of magnitude more sensitive...in a big hurry...this tech is destined for the dustbin alongside AM stereo.

I don't know. Every radio I own including the GE superradio has an antenna. It's inside the radio, but it's there wrapped around a ferrite core. Every FM radio I own, including the GE Superradio has an FM antenna. That's what the whip that eminates from the body of the radio is for. Not every radio on the market (as a matter of fact most don't) uses the headphone wire as an antenna. Even my good old car radio has an antenna that is mounted on the body of the car itself. When they put those in glass antennas in most people I know complained about poor reception. I think what I read in your post is a lot of wishfull thinking. By the way, my receptor came with an internal AM antenna. It works, but not as well as the external loop. I believe where we run into trouble is with the people who now receive a station from 60, 80 or more miles away from a station and can't receive the HD signal as well. New radios with updated hardware will improve reception problems from fringe areas. I know that my Sangean is more sensitive than my Receptor and I have a good Receptor. It has no problem receiving HD signals with the dipole or AM loop from 30 or more miles from a transmitter facility. I'm willing to give HD some time to see what it can do. Only Geeks know that HD technology has been around for more than a few months. A new low power consumption chip has already been announced, allowing the manufacture of portable HD radios and it should make its way to the market soon. Lets not just declare HD dead without giving it a chance at life.

 

[Chuck]

So what you're saying is someone is actually making an HD tuner that isn't deaf?

It is a very good FM tuner, especially in analog, where it exhibits excellent sensitivity and selectivity.

Where I live, the nearest station broadcasting in HD is over 60 miles from me. With the supplied twin lead dipole antenna, I can't get reliable HD inside my house, although I get decent analog reception of the same station on my existing Kenwood stereo with a dipole stuffed behind the cabinet it sits in.

Unfortunately, on the HDT-1, you can't lock the tuner in analog only. This is very distracting because when it tries to capture the HD signal and it fails, the audio goes silent for four five seconds. Obviously, I'm right on the ragged edge of the station's useful HD signal. The latest version of this tuner is supposed to have that problem solved, since it allows the tuner to be locked in "analog only" operation.

When I connect the Sangean tuner to my 10 foot long roof mounted TV antenna and remove the FM trap on the distribution amplifier, it receives the HD signal very well. That antenna is pointed at the same antenna farm as the FM-HD station in question.

It is my feeling that the problem is not really with this tuner. In fact, I think it is an amazing piece of equipment for the $200 asking price. The problem the HD signal is 1/100 of the power of the analog signal. If it were 1/10 the power of the analog signal, I suspect that it would work great. Unfortunately, that power level would open up a lot of interference issues that would be very hard to resolve. Basically, there is no free lunch. The system we have is a compromise at best. It's a tribute to the engineers who figured this out that it works at all. It is far from perfect. Still it is what we have to work with, so the best idea is to figure out how to deal with it. It may take even better tuners than this to make it work in some instances.

In the interim, I have no regrets about purchasing HDT-1 tuner, even though I don't really use the HD part very often.

 

[Chuck]

<snip>We now have had two, and are well into the third, generation of radio users who don't worry about antennas. We're not talking about engineers, geeks or DXers here...just the average guy who wants to put his feet up on his chaise lounge and listen to his favorite tunes or the ball game. Suddenly, there's this new line of digital receivers which are deaf without antennas, properly connected and oriented. Do you really think Joe Average is going to bother?
<snip>

In the couple of years I've been hanging out on these Boards, "Dumber than a Box of Hair" has stood out because he usually has a fair, balanced and realistic perspective on whatever topic is being discussed. Basically, it seems he is usually correct.

Once again, I find myself in total agreement. If this is going to be a success, then it needs to work so seamlessly and easily that my mother-in-law would have no problem using it. So far, we are not at that point. She is certainly not going to put up an outdoor (or attic mounted) antenna to listen to HD radio. I can't even get her to use a DVD player. She says "it's too hard to use," and has no problem with her trusty VHS player that makes substandard pictures.

I know that Arbitron, most radio stations, and “the powers that be” don’t give a rat's a$$ about my mother-in-law or anybody in her demographic, but it still needs to be so easy and simple that anyone can get good results with no hassle.

 

[R.F. Burns]

So what you're saying is someone is actually making an HD tuner that isn't deaf?

It is a very good FM tuner, especially in analog, where it exhibits excellent sensitivity and selectivity.

Where I live, the nearest station broadcasting in HD is over 60 miles from me. With the supplied twin lead dipole antenna, I can't get reliable HD inside my house, although I get decent analog reception of the same station on my existing Kenwood stereo with a dipole stuffed behind the cabinet it sits in.

Unfortunately, on the HDT-1, you can't lock the tuner in analog only. This is very distracting because when it tries to capture the HD signal and it fails, the audio goes silent for four five seconds. Obviously, I'm right on the ragged edge of the station's useful HD signal. The latest version of this tuner is supposed to have that problem solved, since it allows the tuner to be locked in "analog only" operation.

When I connect the Sangean tuner to my 10 foot long roof mounted TV antenna and remove the FM trap on the distribution amplifier, it receives the HD signal very well. That antenna is pointed at the same antenna farm as the FM-HD station in question.

It is my feeling that the problem is not really with this tuner. In fact, I think it is an amazing piece of equipment for the $200 asking price. The problem the HD signal is 1/100 of the power of the analog signal. If it were 1/10 the power of the analog signal, I suspect that it would work great. Unfortunately, that power level would open up a lot of interference issues that would be very hard to resolve. Basically, there is no free lunch. The system we have is a compromise at best. It's a tribute to the engineers who figured this out that it works at all. It is far from perfect. Still it is what we have to work with, so the best idea is to figure out how to deal with it. It may take even better tuners than this to make it work in some instances.

In the interim, I have no regrets about purchasing HDT-1 tuner, even though I don't really use the HD part very often.

I agree with practically everything you said Chuck. the HDT-1X (which I also own) overcomes the flip flop problem. You can force the radio to do Analog, digital or analog on one channel and digital on the other. It's my opinion that AM IBOC has a long way to go and at this time I don't see it being an acceptale replacement for analog AM. That might mean the end of the AM audience as we know it but the artifacts on the AM are way to audible and even with a music format the AM audio falls far below it's FM counterpart. That and the fact that on FM we can triple the number of free programs, AM will face far greater competition than it does now and unless they programed some must have format (which would probably prove unprofitable) . A lot of the issues surrounding transmission vs reception distances has to do with terrain and erp. When I first connected my HDT-1, I connected the dipole and received a Conneticut station from 55 miles away with a solid signal. That said, if I went out west where it's mountainous, a station from 60 miles away is nearly inaudible even in analog.

 

[R.F. Burns]

I feel dumber is pretty fair most of the time. I have no problem with him nor do I with most people in here. I have to disagree with you on the mother in law argument. HD radio is aimed at a younger more tech savy audience. My children in their late teens early 20's have lived with computers and technology like that all of their life. Most younger people have. My father at 78 always amazes me because not only does he own 3 computers (a 286, a 486 and a Pentium 3 with XP on it) and he has high speed internet as well. He wasn't a technology guy, he worked in finance. Somehow he has digital cable and figured out how to set up and use its TIVO feature. By the way, all of my parents friends (around the same age) have high speed internet and similar situations. I have younger friends who are technologically challenged. Following the directions and attaching an antenna is not really a major hurdle. Somehow people were able to set up their TV's all these years and most were connected to some form of external antenna system.

 

[PocketRadio]

HD radio is aimed at a younger more tech savy audience. My children in their late teens early 20's have lived with computers and technology like that all of their life. Most younger people have.

"Can Sony Make HD Radio A Winner?"

"So, the old consumers don't want HD. Young consumers think the concept is laughable. Big retailers can't sell it. And radio companies won't invest in it."

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2007/05/can-sony-make-hd-radio-winner.html

Yea, the HD marketers have it figured out - sounds like a winning strategy to me !

 

[R.F. Burns]

HD radio is aimed at a younger more tech savy audience. My children in their late teens early 20's have lived with computers and technology like that all of their life. Most younger people have.

"Can Sony Make HD Radio A Winner?"

"So, the old consumers don't want HD. Young consumers think the concept is laughable. Big retailers can't sell it. And radio companies won't invest in it."

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2007/05/can-sony-make-hd-radio-winner.html

Yea, the HD marketers have it figured out - sounds like a winning strategy to me !

Picture the Aflac duck after listening to Yogi Berra pontificate. I shall give the same response to your missive... Uhhh Huh????? ???

 

[Chuck]

I have no problem with him nor do I with most people in here. I have to disagree with you on the mother in law argument. HD radio is aimed at a younger more tech savy audience.

It could be, but nobody ever went broke underestimating their audience. For this to succeed, it has to be simple. Good reception may be the norm inside large cities with concentrated populations. HD may work fine there, but what about people who live in the suburbs and beyond?

Most of the people in the under 30 demographic usually rent their homes. More than likely, it is an apartment. Most apartment house owners absolutely prohibit putting up outdoor antennas. Increasingly, they do allow satellite dishes, but as far as I've noticed, that is about it. Maybe it is different in New York or Connecticut, but I doubt it.

I just don't see a lot of people erecting antennas, no matter how unobtrusive, especially if the programming more or less duplicates what they already get on their existring $20 bedside radio.

 

[R.F. Burns]

I have no problem with him nor do I with most people in here. I have to disagree with you on the mother in law argument. HD radio is aimed at a younger more tech savy audience.

It could be, but nobody ever went broke underestimating their audience. For this to succeed, it has to be simple. Good reception may be the norm inside large cities with concentrated populations. HD may work fine there, but what about people who live in the suburbs and beyond?

Most of the people in the under 30 demographic usually rent their homes. More than likely, it is an apartment. Most apartment house owners absolutely prohibit putting up outdoor antennas. Increasingly, they do allow satellite dishes, but as far as I've noticed, that is about it. Maybe it is different in New York or Connecticut, but I doubt it.

I just don't see a lot of people erecting antennas, no matter how unobtrusive, especially if the programming more or less duplicates what they already get on their existring $20 bedside radio.

OK, I live in a suburb, 25 miles from the transmitters. we hear all the time from people who claim to live in a suburb, 50 or 60 miles from a transmitter. That's no suburb. It doesn't matter what urban sprawl has caused when you live 50 or more miles from a radio station you are outside the coverage area. Now, even in my suburban location there are many NY AM facilities which either don't cover my home with a usable signal or are only viable during the day and that's at 25 miles! Most apartment buildings have a "community" antenna system and that is sufficiant for your FM HD signal. Just plug the radio into the jack and your all set to go. When I lived in an apartment I was able to put up a wire antenna using very thin guage wire (I realize most won't do that) and with that setup I was able to hear some transatlantics and even KFI once. I used the smokestack as the center point fo my inverted vee. I was working Europeans on 75 meter phone in those days. What we're talking about here are first generation receivers which will always be less then perfect. I have given lots of first gen examples using other technology as examples. By the way, federal law requires that small dish antennas for DirecTv and Dish network be allowed even in areas with restrictive covenants. The key to the HD radio and transmission system is that if HD is unavailable for whatever reason these radios will also do analog so for the forseeable future no one is going to have to do without radio while this technology is further developed. One last thing, most of the US population by a large percentage lives in urban and suburban areas. the vast majority of people will be served with digital signals. For the few who live in rural environments not to worry. Remember the days before cable and satellite when they had to pick up TV signals from 50 or 100 miles away. Most probabaly still have thjose old TV antennas on the roof. It may be time to connect your HD radio to that old antenna and enter the digital age with the rest of us.

 

[DeadElvis]

Most of the people in the under 30 demographic usually rent their homes. More than likely, it is an apartment. Most apartment house owners absolutely prohibit putting up outdoor antennas. Increasingly, they do allow satellite dishes, but as far as I've noticed, that is about it. Maybe it is different in New York or Connecticut, but I doubt it.

Pursuant to the Telecom Act of 1996, landlords must allow tenants, with some reasonable limits, to install antennas for TV reception on spots like balconies, and small satellite dishes for Direct Broadcast Satellite.

Ham antennas? Not included in that action, BTW.

DE