Why has the South never been fertile ground for news-talk?

[smedge2006]

As the most conservative region in the country, the South should be the homeland of talk radio.

It's anything but.

Atlanta has a solid performer in WSB and Charlotte has its own heritage talker in WBT. Nashville and Birmingham have a few decent talkers splitting the audience between AM and FM. Florida USED to be
a hotbed of talk radio. WWL may have a new life post-Katrina. But elsewhere... ????

A more typical Southern market is Charleston SC. There WSC only became competitive after moving to FM.
It leads WTMA, but neither is setting the town on fire.

Why is news-talk not the player in the South it is in the Northeast or on the West Coast? A few ideas of mine...

Lack of 50 kW flamethrowers outside of ATL, New Orleans and Charlotte. (WSM in Nashville should be a newstalker but isn't.) Florida should by population rights have two or three Class A's but has none.

Poor ground conductivity in most of the South hurts AM.

In the 70's and 80's, rather than convert to news-talk, many of the AM Heritage music stations in the South went to other formats (short-lived), shut down altogether, or didn't arrive to news-talk until the 90's, after habits had already been formed. Examples:

WFLI, Chattanooga, now religion
WSGN, Birmingham, first nostalgia, now Gospel
WLOF, Orlando, nostalgia, then kids, now religious
WBIG, Greensboro, was country, went dark, came back and is now Spanish as WWBG

In some places (coastal North and South Carolina), the AM band has simply been emptied out.

Cultural barriers. Michael Graham is the only political talk show host I'm aware of who is actually from the South. (Barry Farber also, but that was a long time ago.) Cultural norms of politeness and civility may prevent
Southerners from engaging in the give-and-take of talk radio, which was born in the Northeast, Los Angeles and Miami Beach.

Large African-American populations in many Southern cities have no use for conservative talk (and damn little for white liberal talk, and not much more for black-oriented talkers like WAOK).

The markets where talk radio does best are those with large numbers of transplanted northerners, such as Atlanta, the Florida markets, and Huntsville, Alabama.

 

[fred flintstone]

If you look at the ratings for Southern markets, you will notice that mostly Country or Urban (Black-targeted) format are dominant; often with HUGE shares.

Talk radio gets a quarter share of the audience or more in some markets; less than 10 per cent in others. That's the share for all talk radio combined. Some markets are good markets for talk radio; others are not. Bad markets for talk radio disproportionately are located in the South.

Why? Because the South is filled with Southerners.
Notice how the South consistently ranks at the bottom of the lists for socio-economic indicators, including education and literacy. Talk radio is only a small part of the picture.

 

[Arbitorn]

Back when Dave Rinehart went to WFLA in Tampa, no AM's were in the top 10. He and Gabe Hobbs put together a great staff and carved an AM News/Talk winner out of it in an FM town. Don't know what it's shares are now, but it definitely turned around in the 90's. The Mighty 690 in Jacksonville has stayed close to the top lately, too.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Greensboro may be a good example here.

The market's heritage news/talker, WSJS, basically has a signal serving only the western half of the market. They tacked on a simulcaster out east a few years ago, but Greensboro, in the middle of the two signals, is moderately to poorly served by either one. And the station's crucial move into news/talk was mostly done with only the one signal.

Meanwhile, the largest AM signal in the market is 50,000 watt WTRU/830 Kernersville NC "The Truth", which easily covers the entire Triad (Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem)...and is a religious station.

There's a rimshot FM talker there now, too, but it basically covers areas that WSJS's 600 signal doesn't reach. It's nearly a Triangle market station.

Speaking of which, the Triangle's always had WPTF/680, which has been a decently-performing talk station.

That education thing may play into it, as the Triangle's somewhat more upscale and better educated than the Triad.

 

[fred flintstone]

OA, now that you mention it, there are some essential similarities between talk and religion formats - and in the nature of their appeal.
Relgious stations (the non-musical ones) are filled with preachers (Bible thumbers and Pulpit pounders) decrying evil, the devil and sin. Turn to Jesus or you go to Hell.
Talk stations have Rush, whose style is evangelical. He is decrying evil but has a different devil to fight. Turn to the Republican Party or the country goes to Hell. Hannity, O'Reilly, Gallagher and others are similar (but less effective and with smaller congregations).
Preachers sell religious premiums; Rush et al sell newsletters and verbal advantage.
But mostly true believers tune in to be told they are right (about religion, politics or both).
Organized religion is a more pervasive fact of life in the South. In many ways, especially at the local level, the South is a theocracy. So talk radio occurs more in the context of religion. Rush, on the other hand, is a secular revival meeting.
There is a reason that Salem offers both preaching and social conservative talk and says both a consistent with the company's mission.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Flintstone, you are seriously full of sheep dip.

But just as a blind pig sometimes finds an acorn, and a broken clock is right twice a day, sometimes you accidentally get something right.

The South is filled with southerners. And many of them just don't like listening to people talk with damnyankee accents.

 

[kaufcom]

Flintstone, you are seriously full of sheep dip.

But just as a blind pig sometimes finds an acorn, and a broken clock is right twice a day, sometimes you accidentally get something right.

The South is filled with southerners. And many of them just don't like listening to people talk with damnyankee accents.

RR why don't you just go away. I am following this thread. It is very interesting. It claims that Southern talk radio stations underperform. If this is true it is very interesting. The South is solid Republican territory and one would expect talk radio to perform very well. The posters bring up lots of issues. The lack of powerful AM stations, pure ground contectivity, the impact of religious stations, the size of the African American population. I’m thinking that this is a great thread. I am going to learn something about talk radio in South. Several posters contribute – including Smedge, OMV and FF. Everyone adds relevant points to the discussion. Then you chime in. Once again with some meaningless drivel attacking one of the posters. When you are not obsessing about the differences between “liberal” and “progressive” talk radio you are usually making some off the wall comment like this one.

 

[fred flintstone]

Dear Radio "Realist:"

Pigs hunt for truffles.
A "blind pig" is an illegal after-hours drinking establishment.

Yes, many Southerners do resent Yankees telling them what to think.
Including Yankees like Rush Limbaugh of Cape Girardeau, MO?

That does not explain why local talk radio as rule (exceptions noted) does not do that well in Southern markets either.

Talk radio gets OK (or "decent") numbers in some Southern markets (poor numbers in others), but the format does not do well compared to markets in other regions. Arbitron's top performing talk stations are disproportionately NOT in the South (a few exceptions noted). It's not just about the signal. Good signals go where the money is.

 

[evnlee]

The South is filled with southerners. And many of them just don't like listening to people talk with damnyankee accents.

RR has a very good point here.

Go to most of the broadcasting schools in the south, and they will try to beat the southern accent out of you. You are taught to speak, read, articulate in a voice that sounds like your from 'Ohio.'

Now, if you come to these same schools with a thick Philly brogue, or a drawn Brooklyn cackle, they will tell you 'use that', 'work with it', etc....There is a mindset 'dowahn heyeer that the only one's allowed behind the mic with a thick southern drawl is the comic relief.

There may be exceptions, but most of the prominent southern talkers on a large scale ( Boortz, for example ) doesn't sound like Larry the Cable Guy.

This doesn't resonate too well with the Southern Mindset.

Also, southerners are more polite, they dont 'cotton; to someone screaming at them all day. Unless you live in one of those 'Northern escape hatches' ( Palm Beach ) it really doesn't work too well. If your hollerin', it better be about the Lord!

Plus, look at the migration numbers. Atlanta has almost tripled in population in the 24 years I've lived here. Most of my new neighbors are from the north. The ranks of middle management in the radio clusters come from smaller market's outside the region ( some can make it from Valdosta to Atlanta, but most are coming fresh from Cleaveland or Denver .) The demo is fractured. People have been calling for Stern and O and A for years down here, and it's almost always transplants. I've listened to both, and while they can be entertaining, thier accent's just grate....

 

[evnlee]

The markets where talk radio does best are those with large numbers of transplanted northerners, such as Atlanta, the Florida markets, and Huntsville, Alabama.

also, a large contigent of 'just arrived' hispanics. The N/T I worked for in 2003 flipped to ESPN Espanol...It's cheaper and easier to flip to a spanish-speaking format, and a lot of the former N/T turnkeys are using syndicated Hispanic music or talk.

 

[fred flintstone]

It's been said before: Atlanta is not in the South (any more). The South is 40 miles from Atlanta in any direction.
Same probably applies to Research Triangle.

 

[jcolletta275]

Yep... and South Florida as well. The South is becoming smaller and smaller every day.

OhioMediaWatch brought up great points about the Triad and WSJS... and one thing I would add to it is that a lot of the South is covered in the same way the Triad is. Smaller signals covering less area... and very few areas have signals that would make a news/talk format profitable. After all, it is a money issue... you have to be able to bring something in for the investment. There just aren't as many stations in the South capable of doing so with the format as there are elsewhere.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"That does not explain why local talk radio as rule (exceptions noted) does not do that well in Southern markets either."

How many of the "local" talk radio programs aired in the South are truly "local", as in featuring a host who not only sits behind a microphone in a studio located in the South, but is also a local southerner who actually speaks with an appropriate regional Southern accent? How many "local" talk shows in the south are hosted by someone who sounds like a Yankee carpetbagger? For that matter, how many "local" talk shows in the South are hosted by bona-fide Yankee carpetbaggers?

And I'm not talking about someone was born in Bug Tussel, Alabama but who had a Yankee accent beat into him in college. How many local southern talk shows feature hosts who sound to the audience like local Southerners?

I didn't realize some posters in here couldn't grasp the gist of what I was getting at earlier the way evenlee did.

And for the record, though pro-Secessio factions in Missouri formed Confederate governments in Missouri, the official state government remained loyal to the Union. Look at a map sometime, and you'll see that Cape Girardeau, MO is not exactly deep in the heart of Dixie. And, if you were to listen to his program sometime, you'll hear that Rush Limbaugh does not speak with a southern accent.

 

[evnlee]

It's been said before: Atlanta is not in the South (any more). The South is 40 miles from Atlanta in any direction.
Same probably applies to Research Triangle.

really? Come down here and try to buy a beer in the CITY of ATLANTA on sunday within 25 miles of a church :

Just because we have alot of 'transplants' does not mean we aren't southern

there are people that live in my neighborhood downtown still pissed about taking the rebel cross off the state flag!!

you do have a point, though. we've always had more beautiful women folk, but that seems to attract alot of northern guys to move down here. Judging by the 'talent' I saw when I went to college in CinCin-nasty, cant say I blame them

 

[fred flintstone]

The Southern accent is disappearing among the Middle, Upper Middle and Elite classes in the South.
It persists among the Working and Under classes.
However, Southerners (even those with no dirt under their finger nails) do tend to speak more slowly, use metaphors more and digress more (take a roundabout route to get to the point).
Southerners who employ GAE (General American English) make a conscious effort to do so; one never loses their "milk language" or accent.
If accent is the key factor here, maybe the audience segment which won't accept a "Yankee" accent are "po' white trash."
Interestingly enough, public radio's news and information format (and public radio in general) does as well in major and large Southern markets as any place else. Suggesting higher SES listeners will accept non-regional accents.

PS: Missouri was a slave state, with considerable Confederate sentiment. Socially and culturally, the area was - and is - very Southern.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"The Southern accent is disappearing among the Middle, Upper Middle and Elite classes in the South."

I thought this thread was about the problems of attracting listeners to news/talk radio, not perpetuating cultural or class sterotypes.

 

[jcolletta275]

Actually, the two subjects are intertwined here. fred brings up a very valid point.

And before you jump on me, yes, I am a born-and-raised southerner. I'd never known another part of the country as home until three years ago. Believe me, I know of what I speak.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"Actually, the two subjects are intertwined here."

I understand that, and agree to a point. However, this isn't so much about how individuals personally choose to speak, it is about what kind of voices they prefer to listen to. I have found that even people who have worked to rid themselves of a distinctive regional accent in order to improve their chances at jobs, etc., often prefer to listen to others speak with the accent that reminds them of home.

If one wishes to attract large numbers of southerners to a radio station programming the news/talk format, then getting local hosts who sound local is one important thing that needs to be done in order to be successful.

All the other rantings about organized religion, socio-economic classes, using metaphors and the like may be interesting, but it is beside the point.

People listen to things on the radio that they like the sound of. Radio is an auditory medium. The accent of the person speaking is as much an integral part of the appeal of a radio program as the subject content or the tonal quality of the speaker's voice.

 

[clichemoth]

Not getting into the stereotyping issues (because, quite frankly, my post would be [EDIT] [EDIT] [EDIT] [EDIT] if I laid into Fred like I want to), I think the lack of good signals is the prime reason news/talk has never quite caught on here in the South like it has in the Northeast or California. How can you sell ad time for a nighttime show on AM when your listeners have to park under your tower to hear it on your station? Barring some sort of strange weather condition that kills all DX, every station in Alabama, Mississippi, North Florida, and Georgia outside of Atlanta is a defacto daytimer.

Yeah, you could go with FM, as many stations have, but the stations that did so waited until after the N/T boom of the mid-90s to do so and probably missed their chance to become established. Also, many small stations signed Rush back then, but kept their other formats the rest of the time. Some of those stations also carry Dave Ramsey or Paul Harvey or a sports show or two, but they're not talkers, they still consider themselves to be country or AC full-service stations.

Another factor would be that the political culture itself is different. Most successful Southern politicians have been highly charismatic and polarizing figures. People definitely discuss politics down here, but we'd rather hear the folks we elected say the controversial things than hear some nobody on the radio pass along their fifth-hand opinion about them. Hence why most local shows in Southern markets are usually more caller-driven and less about what Host X thinks about everything.

 

[gr8oldies]

There are still good size signals in good sized markets in the south. I might count WLAC in Nashville (though no doubt hampered by the high end signal locally), WOAI in San Antonio and others. Tampa at one time was a hotbed of talk activity, WFLA and even WPLP in their heydays.

Is there actually any data behind the original premise in the first place? Also, last time I was in the south, all the TV anchors sounded exactly like the TV anchors in Dayton, OH.