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Why hasn't Country worked before?

I

Ivan

Guest
Folks, many of you have been stating that Country can work in NYC. A lot of you state that you miss the old station. I haen't heard anybody say it was a bad station.
So why is isn't still on the air?
 
> Folks, many of you have been stating that Country can work
> in NYC. A lot of you state that you miss the old station. I
> haen't heard anybody say it was a bad station.
> So why is isn't still on the air?

each station that has left the format did so because they either did not make money or did not, in the owner's perspective, make as much money as they could have made in another fomrat.
 
> Folks, many of you have been stating that Country can work
> in NYC. A lot of you state that you miss the old station. I
> haen't heard anybody say it was a bad station.
> So why is isn't still on the air?
>
If the theory is that Rock doesnt work in NYC because it's too "Urban" a town, how do you see country working?.Not that I agree with the rock theory but I dont see country as being wholly relatable to the NYC lifestyle and audience.
 
Beating a dead horse!

> Folks, many of you have been stating that Country can work
> in NYC. A lot of you state that you miss the old station. I
> haen't heard anybody say it was a bad station.
> So why is isn't still on the air?
>
Answer:
It doesn't make money here.
Aside from a suburban audience most people in the 5 boroughs could relate very little to the, many of it right wing, crying in the beer tunes pumped out by most country artists.
Out of curiousity I've had the opportunity to listen to WNYE, 91.5fm recently since they've leased some airtime to temporarily put country music on the NYC. airwaves leading up to the CMA Awards on Tuesday at Madison Square Garden and while some of the country tunes are admittedly catchy, most of the lyrics and sounds do NOT appeal to New Yorker's.
When Y-107 had it's suburban tricast I always thought that made sense since it was suburban based and served more listeners that would be interested as opposed to a city audience.


<P ID="signature">______________
Is it 2008 yet?
www.airamericaradio.com
</P>
 
> > Folks, many of you have been stating that Country can work
>
> > in NYC. A lot of you state that you miss the old station.
> I
> > haen't heard anybody say it was a bad station.
> > So why is isn't still on the air?
>
> each station that has left the format did so because they
> either did not make money or did not, in the owner's
> perspective, make as much money as they could have made in
> another fomrat.
>
There have been several posts regarding country stations in upstate markets, but so far no mention of Rochester so let me jump in here on this. I am up here in Rochester. In spite of what you may have heard, there are no cows grazing on Main Street in downtown Rochester (that would be Utica). Rochester is probably the most white-collar city in upstate N. Y. It also, has a long history of country on the radio. In the 60’s 70’s and early 80’s it was WNYR 990. WNYR was one of the most successful country stations in the Northeast for many years.
In the late 80’s WBEE –FM came on (I was there in the beginning doing weekends and later 7- midnight). When WBEE came on the competition made fun of it. They called it W’ve B een E verything E lse after so many format changes on 92.5. They said country would never last on a full power station in such a sophisticated city. Well, they were proven wrong in the first book. The station was a ratings success from start. However, the station ran into the same problems that N. Y. C. Stations ran into. Agencies would not buy. The country image was of hayseeds, & toothless country rednecks, also, older demos. Over a period of time the agencies and backseat experts were all proven wrong. Country listeners in Rochester listen in their offices at Kodak and Xerox and while driving their BMW’s and Porches. WBEE has continued to be a very successful country station and is usually # 1, 12+
I believe the problem in N. Y. C. is similar to the image problem that was experienced in Rochester. For a full power station country to be successful the owner would have to be patient. Go thru several books just to show that ratings success is not a fluke. I don’t think any ownership in N. Y. C. would be that patient. In the #1 market they want immediate results. Too much money is involved. You can’t run a country station cheap. It takes a lot of involvement with the listeners. That would mean a full staff of personality driven jocks. I don’t think Clear Channel or Infinity would want that expense on a gamble.
 
This is exactly why the CMA is here. To make people in a market with no outlet understand what the country format is all about. Admittedly, there is a very large fan base in the NYC area. However, I do not buy the notion that just because folks live in the "city" proper that they would not like today's country music. If you listen and learn the format for more than an HOUR...you may look beyond the stereotypical attitude that country music means "cows, farmers and "hics"! Wake up....this is 2005! Take the time to really LISTEN to the lyrics and you will probably uncover alot about yourself and what's deep inside you. The music is about family and good "American" values and yes..human troubles, something everyone has in common. Yes, there are some songs today that poke fun at the old style of "country & western" with the sad-sack, drinking and driving pick-up trucks. But that is not what today's country is all about. "Country" has NOTHING to do with where you live geographically. I understand that NYC is more culturally diverse than any other city in the US, however, when you look at the demographics of ANY city, it all balances out according to population. The only difference here is alot more people per square mile than anywhere else. Every city in the US is "culturally diverse" but support a good country station. Indianapolis, for example has had a #1 country station for quite a few years now. Bottom line is, this is not a north/south, east/west, city/suburbs situation. There are big $$ to be made with this format, it is just going to take education of the ad execs, broadcast execs and the public. This is the goal of the CMA.
 
Re: How WHN Was Promoted 1970's

Amazing this arguement still has to be made. From a late 1970's print ad by WHN on the cover of the short-lived New York radio guide magazine:

"The music on WHN Radio will make you laugh and it'll make you cry.
Life's a lot like that.
It's filled with tears and laughter.
WHN 1050 America's Most Listened to country Music Station"

An article inside interviewing Lee Arnold said "WHN is a commercial success. It usually ranks among the top 7 or 8 new York stations and is particularly popular among adults".

RG: "How do you think WHN was able to take a county music format and make it appeal to urban listeners?"

Arnold: "By the artists that we play and by the way in which we play them. We program the kind of mix that is appealing to the New York audience...in country we have so many types & styles, I think that's what appeals to our listeners."


> This is exactly why the CMA is here. To make people in a
> market with no outlet understand what the country format is
> all about. Admittedly, there is a very large fan base in the
> NYC area. However, I do not buy the notion that just because
> folks live in the "city" proper that they would not like
> today's country music. If you listen and learn the format
> for more than an HOUR...you may look beyond the
> stereotypical attitude that country music means "cows,
> farmers and "hics"! Wake up....this is 2005! Take the time
> to really LISTEN to the lyrics and you will probably uncover
> alot about yourself and what's deep inside you. The music is
> about family and good "American" values and yes..human
> troubles, something everyone has in common. Yes, there are
> some songs today that poke fun at the old style of "country
> & western" with the sad-sack, drinking and driving pick-up
> trucks. But that is not what today's country is all about.
> "Country" has NOTHING to do with where you live
> geographically. I understand that NYC is more culturally
> diverse than any other city in the US, however, when you
> look at the demographics of ANY city, it all balances out
> according to population. The only difference here is alot
> more people per square mile than anywhere else. Every city
> in the US is "culturally diverse" but support a good country
> station. Indianapolis, for example has had a #1 country
> station for quite a few years now. Bottom line is, this is
> not a north/south, east/west, city/suburbs situation. There
> are big $$ to be made with this format, it is just going to
> take education of the ad execs, broadcast execs and the
> public. This is the goal of the CMA.
>
 
Here are 5 selections from the Walmart.com top 10 country downloads:

Tequila Makes Her Clothes Fall Off
Honky Tonk Badonkadonk
Boondocks
Billy's Got His Beer Goggles On
Bless the Broken Road

This is going to work in NYC? Can you imagine driving down Park Avenue or Gun Hill Road with these on the radio?? Give me a break.


> This is exactly why the CMA is here. To make people in a
> market with no outlet understand what the country format is
> all about. Admittedly, there is a very large fan base in the
> NYC area. However, I do not buy the notion that just because
> folks live in the "city" proper that they would not like
> today's country music. If you listen and learn the format
> for more than an HOUR...you may look beyond the
> stereotypical attitude that country music means "cows,
> farmers and "hics"! Wake up....this is 2005! Take the time
> to really LISTEN to the lyrics and you will probably uncover
> alot about yourself and what's deep inside you. The music is
> about family and good "American" values and yes..human
> troubles, something everyone has in common. Yes, there are
> some songs today that poke fun at the old style of "country
> & western" with the sad-sack, drinking and driving pick-up
> trucks. But that is not what today's country is all about.
> "Country" has NOTHING to do with where you live
> geographically. I understand that NYC is more culturally
> diverse than any other city in the US, however, when you
> look at the demographics of ANY city, it all balances out
> according to population. The only difference here is alot
> more people per square mile than anywhere else. Every city
> in the US is "culturally diverse" but support a good country
> station. Indianapolis, for example has had a #1 country
> station for quite a few years now. Bottom line is, this is
> not a north/south, east/west, city/suburbs situation. There
> are big $$ to be made with this format, it is just going to
> take education of the ad execs, broadcast execs and the
> public. This is the goal of the CMA.
>
 
lol and people think hip hop is bad, sheesh
> Here are 5 selections from the Walmart.com top 10 country
> downloads:
>
> Tequila Makes Her Clothes Fall Off
> Honky Tonk Badonkadonk
> Boondocks
> Billy's Got His Beer Goggles On
> Bless the Broken Road
>
> This is going to work in NYC? Can you imagine driving down
> Park Avenue or Gun Hill Road with these on the radio?? Give
> me a break.
>
>
> > This is exactly why the CMA is here. To make people in a
> > market with no outlet understand what the country format
> is
> > all about. Admittedly, there is a very large fan base in
> the
> > NYC area. However, I do not buy the notion that just
> because
> > folks live in the "city" proper that they would not like
> > today's country music. If you listen and learn the format
> > for more than an HOUR...you may look beyond the
> > stereotypical attitude that country music means "cows,
> > farmers and "hics"! Wake up....this is 2005! Take the time
>
> > to really LISTEN to the lyrics and you will probably
> uncover
> > alot about yourself and what's deep inside you. The music
> is
> > about family and good "American" values and yes..human
> > troubles, something everyone has in common. Yes, there
> are
> > some songs today that poke fun at the old style of
> "country
> > & western" with the sad-sack, drinking and driving pick-up
>
> > trucks. But that is not what today's country is all about.
>
> > "Country" has NOTHING to do with where you live
> > geographically. I understand that NYC is more culturally
> > diverse than any other city in the US, however, when you
> > look at the demographics of ANY city, it all balances out
> > according to population. The only difference here is alot
> > more people per square mile than anywhere else. Every city
>
> > in the US is "culturally diverse" but support a good
> country
> > station. Indianapolis, for example has had a #1 country
> > station for quite a few years now. Bottom line is, this is
>
> > not a north/south, east/west, city/suburbs situation.
> There
> > are big $$ to be made with this format, it is just going
> to
> > take education of the ad execs, broadcast execs and the
> > public. This is the goal of the CMA.
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
http://natedoggairchecks.6x.to/
xxnate_doggxx (at) myway (dot) com
</P>
 
Because it's NYC., different demographics

Take the time
> to really LISTEN to the lyrics and you will probably uncover
> alot about yourself and what's deep inside you. The music is
> about family and good "American" values and yes..human
> troubles, something everyone has in common.

What does good "American" values mean?
You sound like a Hallmark gift card.
I've spent alot of time listening to the leased programming on WNYE over the past week trying to give this music a chance and to not be biast but after hearing a song "Have you forgotten" I decided this music certainly doesn't represent anything I believe in nor does most of the population in the 5 boroughs. It's no wonder country doesn't work here.

Today's country is admittedly more mainstream and sophisticated than the country music of the past but it is still as hoaky as ever...
A suburban, NJ based country station would undoubtedly pull in listeners but NYC, that is another issue completely.




Indianapolis, for example has had a #1 country
> station for quite a few years now. Bottom line is, this is
> not a north/south, east/west, city/suburbs situation.

Indianapolis-New York, hmmm...what am I missing in this comparison?


There are big $$ to be made with this format, it is just going to
> take education of the ad execs, broadcast execs and the
> public.

Not in NYC. If there were big bucks to be made with country it would have been done. Do you think broadcast executives are that stupid?



This is the goal of the CMA.

Why does it bother the CMA so much that they don't have an outlet in NYC?
Is it a cult?

Hosting the CMA Awards and programming a country station in NYC. is about as dumb as programming a full time hip, hop station in Sioux City,Iowa.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
www.airamericaradio.com
</P>
 
Re: How WHN Was Promoted 1970's

One of my points...how does the parent of ANY format make it appeal to different demographics? It comes down to how it is presented. For that matter, how does a salesman sell any product to the public? It takes people with know how and what to present to their potential customer. Just because I couldn't sell that car to someone last year, doesn't mean that I can't improve my technique and sell it this year. A good salesman can sell ANYTHING. The ones who can't should find work elsewhere.

If everyone had the attitude that it just "can't be sold", well, alot of us would be out of work.
 
> Folks, many of you have been stating that Country can work
> in NYC. A lot of you state that you miss the old station. I
> haen't heard anybody say it was a bad station.
> So why is isn't still on the air?
>

More than likely they couldn't sell it. I rememeber Coutry 103.5 (didn't they start out on 97.5?) and they were kickin' with personality and good tunes. It seemed it vanished into the air and then the 107fm group came about with the two or three repeat transmitters. I gave it a listen but it didn't have the same feeling.

Hal
 
> > Folks, many of you have been stating that Country can work
>
> > in NYC. A lot of you state that you miss the old station.
> I
> > haen't heard anybody say it was a bad station.
> > So why is isn't still on the air?
> >
>
> More than likely they couldn't sell it. I rememeber Coutry
> 103.5 (didn't they start out on 97.5?) and they were kickin'
> with personality and good tunes. It seemed it vanished into
> the air and then the 107fm group came about with the two or
> three repeat transmitters. I gave it a listen but it didn't
> have the same feeling.
>
> Hal
>


WYNY started on 97.1<P ID="signature">______________
V

NOT NEW YORK....
NOT PHILADELPHIA....
PROUD TO BE NEW JERSEY....</P>
 
Re: Because it's NYC., different demographics

> Today's country is admittedly more mainstream and
> sophisticated than the country music of the past but it is
> still as hoaky as ever...

Any format that has songs like "Tequila Makes Her Clothes Fall Off," "Save A Horse, Ride A Cowboy," "Whiskey Girl," "The Angry American" doesnt belong on a station in NYC. This market is too diverse, too splintered, and too rythmic for the "Urban Cowboy" stuff. And despite any arguments, country IS still for the rural at heart.

After being to a Loretta Lynn concert, I dont think anyone else but leather outfitters and discount liqour outlets would want the listeners. <P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies or jamminoldies105
CBS-FM lives at http://67.83.118.54:8010
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>
 
Re: Because it's NYC., different demographics

"Save A Horse, Ride A Cowboy," "Whiskey Girl,"
> "The Angry American" doesnt belong on a station in NYC

What!?!
Those are EXACTLY the kind of songs that would work in NYC!
Big and Rich's whole schtick is about riding a horse downtown instead a of a car! At least, I always thought that was part of the joke.
And where could there be an Angrier American than a New Yorker after 9/11?

Or is living in Lubbock TX starting to rub off on this here Bostonian?
 
> This is exactly why the CMA is here. To make people in a
> market with no outlet understand what the country format is
> all about. Admittedly, there is a very large fan base in the
> NYC area. However, I do not buy the notion that just because
> folks live in the "city" proper that they would not like
> today's country music. If you listen and learn the format
> for more than an HOUR...you may look beyond the
> stereotypical attitude that country music means "cows,
> farmers and "hics"! Wake up....this is 2005! Take the time
> to really LISTEN to the lyrics and you will probably uncover
> alot about yourself and what's deep inside you. The music is
> about family and good "American" values and yes..human
> troubles, something everyone has in common. Yes, there are
> some songs today that poke fun at the old style of "country
> & western" with the sad-sack, drinking and driving pick-up
> trucks. But that is not what today's country is all about.
> "Country" has NOTHING to do with where you live
> geographically. I understand that NYC is more culturally
> diverse than any other city in the US, however, when you
> look at the demographics of ANY city, it all balances out
> according to population. The only difference here is alot
> more people per square mile than anywhere else. Every city
> in the US is "culturally diverse" but support a good country
> station. Indianapolis, for example has had a #1 country
> station for quite a few years now. Bottom line is, this is
> not a north/south, east/west, city/suburbs situation. There
> are big $$ to be made with this format, it is just going to
> take education of the ad execs, broadcast execs and the
> public. This is the goal of the CMA.
>

I agree, what does Faith Hills, "This Kiss" or some of Vince Gills love songs have to do with hillbillys and pickup trucks? Its not all about getting drunk and marrying you cousin. Most of the country songs today are love songs or they tell a story, much like the popular music of 70's did before hip hop pushed out all the really good singer-songwriters. A lot of the good songwriters are writing country now because they can't get on top 40 radio anymore. They just play the songs on Guitars and fiddles instead of drum machines and computers. My only complaint is some country singers use a fake Southern accent, even though the singer might be a Yankee. Most southerners don't sound that hick using their natural singing voices, I think voice coaches and producers are telling them to sound twangy on purpose.

I still thing the song "Its hard to kiss the lips at night that chew your lips out all day long" by the Notorious Cherrybombs would be a big country hit if some terrestrial station would play it. You got to get XM to hear a gem like that one
 
> Tequila Makes Her Clothes Fall Off
> Honky Tonk Badonkadonk
> Boondocks
> Billy's Got His Beer Goggles On
> Bless the Broken Road
>
God Bless the Broken Road" is not a Hick song at all, A lot of country songs today are simply love songs, or about Girlfriend/boyfriends families etc. Its not all about rednecks and drinking. Most of the redneck songs on country radio are mostly tounge in cheek anyway, its mostly just meant to be funny (like a Jeff Foxworthy joke) its not meant to be taken serious.
 
Re: Because it's NYC., different demographics

.
>
> What does good "American" values mean?
> You sound like a Hallmark gift card.
> I've spent alot of time listening to the leased programming
> on WNYE over the past week trying to give this music a
> chance and to not be biast but after hearing a song "Have
> you forgotten" I decided this music certainly doesn't
> represent anything I believe in nor does most of the
> population in the 5 boroughs. It's no wonder country doesn't
> work here.
>
> Today's country is admittedly more mainstream and
> sophisticated than the country music of the past but it is
> still as hoaky as ever...
> A suburban, NJ based country station would undoubtedly pull
> in listeners but NYC, that is another issue completely.


I'm going to have to take issue with you. Whats wrong with being a little patriotic and singing about loving your nation, your family or God? I'm sure there are lots of people in NYC who appreciate things like God, family and moms apple pie and would much rather hear a song that makes them feel good than have to listen to shock jocks talking about (BLEEP), and thugs rapping about pimps,hoes and bling bling. I'm going to get slammed for what I'm going to say, just read it with an open mind because i wonder if it might be painfully true. I'm beginning to think that some people around the country maybe HAVE forgotten... oh, and "God Bless America"
 
WHY IS THIS STILL A DISCUSSION??

Am I missing something here? How in the world do these trained monkeys think for a second that COUNTRY will make it big on NYC radio when classic NYC-based genres haven't gotten their due? Don't ever in your lives think that country will return to the airwaves before CLASSIC OLD SCHOOL HIPHOP and ELECTROFUNK does.

POINT BLANK -- NYC never fostered an environment for country music to be a common-day sound no more than South Dakota's efforts in preserving the history of the DJ scratchin and cuttin.

I've had it with these random mindless out-of-towners chatting about country in NYC...what's the big deal already? No one's trying to vie for a classic hiphop station in South Dakota because we know the reality....now face it folks!
 
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