WHY IS CLEAR CHANNEL RESISTANT TO POP/ROCK?

[danwxman]

WLAN, WHKF and WIOQ -- three Clear Channel CHRs that are friendly to rock. WHKF and WIOQ both play the new Foster the People (have been on it for a while)

But, I can't think of one Cumulus station that leads on Dance. Did any Cumulus station play "Take Over Control" or "Stereo Love"? Can you name me one rock song that was popular as each of those that was blacklisted from ALL Clear Channel stations? I'd like to be proven wrong.

 

[danwxman]

Even Q100 will play dance if it becomes an established hit. If we didn't know the artists behind the current hit music and heard the current Q100 today for the first time, we'd probably think it was a dance leaning pop/rock station.

I'd say Cumulus is resistant to having urban sounding or extremely rhythmic leaning chr's rather than dance sounds. They sound more dancey now that the uptempo sound has become big, but I don't remember them sounding urban back when hip hop was dominant and had many chr's claiming to be "hip hop".

I'm surprised that no one (that I'm aware of) is playing Outasight or Breathe Carolina here in LA, amongst other things. Never thought the day would come when I say this, but LA has become a "weird market".

Check out WWKL. Don't just look at the currents, look at the recurrents and gold the station plays. The station is totally rhythmic-friendly, but afraid of dance.

 

[atlantaboy]

WLAN, WHKF and WIOQ -- three Clear Channel CHRs that are friendly to rock. WHKF and WIOQ both play the new Foster the People (have been on it for a while)

I just think it's funny how a station plays 99% pop/dance, and 1 single Alt/Rock song, and it's justified as being "rock-friendly"

Gotye/Somebody That I Used To Know and Fun/We Are Young are HUGE digital sellers right now, yet Clear Channel isn't touching them (same with Jason Mraz/I Won't Give Up and Christina Perri/A Thousand Years)

There are plenty of popular Alt/Hot AC songs with huge digital sales - yet CHR won't include them in the mix...

I've never seen so many rock songs do BETTER on the Hot 100 than on CHR...

 

[justpassingthough]

WLAN, WHKF and WIOQ -- three Clear Channel CHRs that are friendly to rock. WHKF and WIOQ both play the new Foster the People (have been on it for a while)

I just think it's funny how a station plays 99% pop/dance, and 1 single Alt/Rock song, and it's justified as being "rock-friendly"

Gotye/Somebody That I Used To Know and Fun/We Are Young are HUGE digital sellers right now, yet Clear Channel isn't touching them (same with Jason Mraz/I Won't Give Up and Christina Perri/A Thousand Years)

There are plenty of popular Alt/Hot AC songs with huge digital sales - yet CHR won't include them in the mix...

I've never seen so many rock songs do BETTER on the Hot 100 than on CHR...

It would be interesting to see an age/gender break out on some of the top digital singles on iTunes, to see if they are being purchased by listeners of CHR or if they're being purchased by people outside the demographic.

 

[CHRles]

Hot AC radio, especially in the big markets, has been getting ever more Rhythmic over the past couple of years. Mix 101.9 Chicago is the perfect example. My 104.3 L.A. is another one, where suddenly it's okay to play "Love The Way You Lie" by Eminem and Rhianna.

There's some good Rock music out there, as well as Hip Hop and Country, but let's be real here - it's just not resonating with a big portion of the CHR audience at this point in time.
Even CHRs that traditionally have been Rock-friendly, are a lot less Rock these days. Need some examples?
98.5 KRZ Wilkes Barre is playing a lot less Rock
95.1 The Big Ape Jacksonville is playing a lot less Rock
Alice 96.5 Reno, onetime a Modern A/C, is now playing a lot less Rock
Mix 93.3 Kansas City is playing a lot less Rock

There's really only a handful of CHRs on the panel these days that are able to integrate a lot of current rock titles to their playlist. 101.1 WIXX Green Bay and Q-92 Canton are two of the best examples. U-93 South Bend is somewhat of a factor as well, but that station is so conservative on the whole Rhythmic side that they don't even seem to play LMFAO or Flo Rida. Come to think of it, the ONLY black artist on its playlist right now is Rhianna.

With regards to Gotye, there are several CHRs already on it. No Cumulus stations so far. On the other hand, several Clear Channel stations, including Z-107.7 St. Louis, 101.3 KDWB Minneapolis, and G-105 Raleigh, are giving it about 25 plays per week. The song's also in light rotation on Rhythmic friendly 106.9 K-Hits out in Tulsa (owned by Redna).

Fun's "We Are Young" is also getting no Cumulus support whatsoever. Clear Channel? Well let's see. The song's on Z-100 New York, 102.7 KIIS-FM L.A., Y-100 Miami, Hot 99.5 Washington, 96.5 Kiss FM Cleveland, XL 106.7 Orlando, and many other stations.

As for Cumulus, Jan is very and I mean VERY conservative when it comes to adding Rap or Dance music. Notice how long it took for Cumulus CHRs to add "Super Bass" by Nicky Minaj, or the fact most Cumulus CHRs couldn't add "Ni**az In Paris" by Jay-Z & Kanye. Same was true for Alexandra Stan "Mr. Saxo Beat" or Afrojack "Take Over Control". With Rock music, the preference is usually for stuff that's more Rock/AC or Modern A/C. If it's something like Foster The People Cumulus station won't jump early on those kinds of records.

Lastly, with regards to L.A., yes it is a quirky market, and wayyy more interesting overall than Phoenix (which ain't half bad either). KDM have you noticed that Amp Radio is one of only two CHRs play Skrillex in regular rotation? Or that both KIIS and Amp already have "Feel So Close" by Calvin Harris in their Top 10?

 

[atlantaboy]

^I didn't mean to suggest that Cumulus was any better than CC BTW about adding these tracks

Sure, there are a dozen CC stations playing Gotye, Fun, Christina Perri, etc., but when you look up format leaders for any of these songs, it's always the same thing - Entercom, Royce, and all the other small-corporation stations getting great results/callout from all these Alt/Pop/Rock songs, Clear Channel only letting the 10-15 adult-leaning stations play it, Cumulus waiting until it's three months old (or avoiding it altogether), and CBS not touching it with the exception of WNKS

I agree that getting a demographic breakdown of who's downloading these songs might be helpful, but again, CHR is a two-way street - if CHR plays 90% pop/rhythm, then females 18-34 downloading Gotye, Fun, Christina Perri, Jason Mraz, etc., probably aren't gonna be the same people who would ordinarily listen to a 90% pop/dance station - if, on the other hand, Clear Channel designed most of its CHRs to be more like 60% pop/rhythm and 40% Alt/Hot AC, suddenly all these listeners downloading Gotye, Fun, etc., would be "in the CHR demographic"

I don't think it's a case of Alt/Rock tracks being unpopular with the CHR target (especially since the download numbers are so high) - I think it's more a case of corporate radio execs deciding that Alt/Rock tracks don't "fit the sound" of their station

 

[carolinaradio]

Entercom's CHR in Greenville, SC isn't playing any of those new songs mentioned in atlantaboy's post - WFBC seems to be getting less rock-friendly, as far as new adds go

Didn't 97.9-NCI in Columbus used to be more rock friendly?

 

[Wildstyle K]

KDM have you noticed that Amp Radio is one of only two CHRs play Skrillex in regular rotation? Or that both KIIS and Amp already have "Feel So Close" by Calvin Harris in their Top 10?

I judge chr stations by mixshows now because most regular (chr) playlists are too close to judge these days. One station will play one song that's "surprising" while another would not play that particular song, but instead play two other songs that are half as exciting, leaving you wondering which station you should actually consider "more interesting and exciting".

I agree that LA may be more exciting overall, but chr / rhythmic / dance-wise, it's just about neck & neck with Phoenix, and it's mainly the mixshows that make the final difference. I did notice "Feel so close" in rotation on LA stations even before arriving to LA, but that was not enough to make me tune in to the stations that played it because I knew that I wasn't really going to hear anything different, fun, or exciting other than that, unlike how LA chr's and stations used to be throughout the 90's.... I could tune in to Z90.3, Q104.7, 102.7 KIIS FM, Amp 97.1, or 99.1 KGGI today and not hear much difference, and out of all, ONLY KIIS has fascinating & unique mixshows. KPWR is fun, but predictable. When it comes to mixshows alone, I think Phoenix is slightly more interesting now that we've pretty much "caught up" to LA when it comes to the amount of stations we have featuring electronic and house mixes. Maybe LA may have more stations doing that kind of sound at more times throughout the week (if you count Super Estrella, KXOL, and the KIIS noon mix), but with Phoenix's KZZP, KWSS, KKFR, KKFR, and KZON already pretty much providing all that LA has to offer chr & mixshow-wise on KIIS and KPWR (and mostly during earlier times than LA, too), I'd say that Phoenix is a bit more interesting. I guess I could somewhat add our KVIB to the list as well. Besides, if I wanted to hear Calvin Harris "feels so close", I could've just tuned in to... well, the new KMVA, now that they've switched up their style...

Oh, and just wait until KNRJ gets a signal boost and lets go of their other two signals, and KVIT covers Phoenix. We will "out dance" LA, and when KNRJ finalizes their flip, we will have a full current based urban format, which LA doesn't even have!

The only real advantage LA will have over Phoenix is KBIG.  ;D

We don't have the luxury of having an adult top 40 or hot ac station like KBIG.
KMVA used to be somewhat like KBIG when they first flipped from rhythmic ac, but then KMVA decided to go top 40.. and now, rhythmic.

 

[Wildstyle K]

Check out WWKL. Don't just look at the currents, look at the recurrents and gold the station plays. The station is totally rhythmic-friendly, but afraid of dance.

This is interesting. I've been meaning to say something about this, but I'm way too tired to do it now. What didn't surprise me was the location of the station... By the way, I wonder if PA is really as anti-dance music as I've heard over the years. I mean... based on other people's past experiences, I wouldn't post about dance or a dance format  in the Philly section without a body guard nearby. Maybe WWKL is also just as scared as I am to even dare try delivering that sound there.  ;D

Do they even play Ghost town Dj's or Inoj? 808 remix by Blaque? No Daft Punk or Dj Sammy? Am I just missing the times they play it, or do they really just play slower recurrents or old school things like Adina Howard and T.L.C. instead?

 

[awp69]

Entercom's CHR in Greenville, SC isn't playing any of those new songs mentioned in atlantaboy's post - WFBC seems to be getting less rock-friendly, as far as new adds go

Definately appears that way, unfortunately. And even though you actually do (gasp!) hear more pop-rock oriented songs on WMYI, they're so slow with adds that we'll probably never hear a lot of these songs, especially if they're more edgy. It sucks in a market when the CHR is less rock friendly and there's no "new" rock station that will play them either, despite what WTPT claims to be.

As far as the thread as a whole goes, there's one ironic thing. The biggest seller of the year, Adele, was primarily "discovered" on new rock/alternative stations before "Rolling in the Deep" exploded.

 

[justpassingthough]

Another twist to this thread....how many stations that are unfriendly to rock or pop/rock are part of clusters that have sister Hot AC/alt leaning or alternative rock stations that may be breaking these bands, and so they skew the CHR station rhythmic to protect a sister station?

As has been pointed out, KIIS and KAMP both lean heavily rhythmic in Los Angeles, but both CC and CBS have alternative stations in the market (and Clear Channel has a very Adult Top 40 Hot AC in KBIG) that share some of the 18 to 34 and 25 to 54 demos and are playing bands like Fun, etc. I'm sure some CHR PDs have been given marching orders to only touch the biggest of rock hits because they don't want to cannibalize sister stations?

 

[danwxman]

Hot AC radio, especially in the big markets, has been getting ever more Rhythmic over the past couple of years. Mix 101.9 Chicago is the perfect example. My 104.3 L.A. is another one, where suddenly it's okay to play "Love The Way You Lie" by Eminem and Rhianna.

There's some good Rock music out there, as well as Hip Hop and Country, but let's be real here - it's just not resonating with a big portion of the CHR audience at this point in time.
Even CHRs that traditionally have been Rock-friendly, are a lot less Rock these days. Need some examples?
98.5 KRZ Wilkes Barre is playing a lot less Rock
95.1 The Big Ape Jacksonville is playing a lot less Rock
Alice 96.5 Reno, onetime a Modern A/C, is now playing a lot less Rock
Mix 93.3 Kansas City is playing a lot less Rock

There's really only a handful of CHRs on the panel these days that are able to integrate a lot of current rock titles to their playlist. 101.1 WIXX Green Bay and Q-92 Canton are two of the best examples. U-93 South Bend is somewhat of a factor as well, but that station is so conservative on the whole Rhythmic side that they don't even seem to play LMFAO or Flo Rida. Come to think of it, the ONLY black artist on its playlist right now is Rhianna.

With regards to Gotye, there are several CHRs already on it. No Cumulus stations so far. On the other hand, several Clear Channel stations, including Z-107.7 St. Louis, 101.3 KDWB Minneapolis, and G-105 Raleigh, are giving it about 25 plays per week. The song's also in light rotation on Rhythmic friendly 106.9 K-Hits out in Tulsa (owned by Redna).

Fun's "We Are Young" is also getting no Cumulus support whatsoever. Clear Channel? Well let's see. The song's on Z-100 New York, 102.7 KIIS-FM L.A., Y-100 Miami, Hot 99.5 Washington, 96.5 Kiss FM Cleveland, XL 106.7 Orlando, and many other stations.

As for Cumulus, Jan is very and I mean VERY conservative when it comes to adding Rap or Dance music. Notice how long it took for Cumulus CHRs to add "Super Bass" by Nicky Minaj, or the fact most Cumulus CHRs couldn't add "Ni**az In Paris" by Jay-Z & Kanye. Same was true for Alexandra Stan "Mr. Saxo Beat" or Afrojack "Take Over Control". With Rock music, the preference is usually for stuff that's more Rock/AC or Modern A/C. If it's something like Foster The People Cumulus station won't jump early on those kinds of records.

Lastly, with regards to L.A., yes it is a quirky market, and wayyy more interesting overall than Phoenix (which ain't half bad either). KDM have you noticed that Amp Radio is one of only two CHRs play Skrillex in regular rotation? Or that both KIIS and Amp already have "Feel So Close" by Calvin Harris in their Top 10?

Excellent points as usual CHRles, thanks for the dose of reality.

 

[danwxman]

Check out WWKL. Don't just look at the currents, look at the recurrents and gold the station plays. The station is totally rhythmic-friendly, but afraid of dance.

This is interesting. I've been meaning to say something about this, but I'm way too tired to do it now. What didn't surprise me was the location of the station... By the way, I wonder if PA is really as anti-dance music as I've heard over the years. I mean... based on other people's past experiences, I wouldn't post about dance or a dance format in the Philly section without a body guard nearby. Maybe WWKL is also just as scared as I am to even dare try delivering that sound there. ;D

Do they even play Ghost town Dj's or Inoj? 808 remix by Blaque? No Daft Punk or Dj Sammy? Am I just missing the times they play it, or do they really just play slower recurrents or old school things like Adina Howard and T.L.C. instead?

\

PA isn't really unfriendly to Dance. As a matter of fact, when WWKL first signed on as a Rhythmic CHR in the early 2000s they were very dance-friendly, playing Paul Oakenfold "Send Me An Angel" and Who Da Funk "Shiny Disco Balls" among others. It's funny how they are quite the opposite now, almost afraid of Dance. Cross town CHR WHKF is dance-friendly, however.

WWKL does have an "old-school" lunch where they play hip-hop and r&b classics from the 90s.

 

[atlantaboy]

Another twist to this thread....how many stations that are unfriendly to rock or pop/rock are part of clusters that have sister Hot AC/alt leaning or alternative rock stations that may be breaking these bands, and so they skew the CHR station rhythmic to protect a sister station?

As has been pointed out, KIIS and KAMP both lean heavily rhythmic in Los Angeles, but both CC and CBS have alternative stations in the market (and Clear Channel has a very Adult Top 40 Hot AC in KBIG) that share some of the 18 to 34 and 25 to 54 demos and are playing bands like Fun, etc. I'm sure some CHR PDs have been given marching orders to only touch the biggest of rock hits because they don't want to cannibalize sister stations?

I think you just hit the nail right on the head

Small radio companies don't have to protect sister stations like CC/CBS/Cumulus stations do

 

[Wildstyle K]

Another twist to this thread....how many stations that are unfriendly to rock or pop/rock are part of clusters that have sister Hot AC/alt leaning or alternative rock stations that may be breaking these bands, and so they skew the CHR station rhythmic to protect a sister station?

As has been pointed out, KIIS and KAMP both lean heavily rhythmic in Los Angeles, but both CC and CBS have alternative stations in the market (and Clear Channel has a very Adult Top 40 Hot AC in KBIG) that share some of the 18 to 34 and 25 to 54 demos and are playing bands like Fun, etc. I'm sure some CHR PDs have been given marching orders to only touch the biggest of rock hits because they don't want to cannibalize sister stations?

Never thought about that... But as you could probably tell, I never really put too much thought into these type of discussions. I normally just participate in them or start topics like this to spark debate and get OTHER people thinking and attempt to make people feel that there's a touch of hope that what they have a passion for hearing can and will someday find big success again. Sometimes I participate in / start these topics facetiously - but with the intent for it to end in a serious, thought-provoking manner.

 

[carolinaradio]

Another twist to this thread....how many stations that are unfriendly to rock or pop/rock are part of clusters that have sister Hot AC/alt leaning or alternative rock stations that may be breaking these bands, and so they skew the CHR station rhythmic to protect a sister station?

As has been pointed out, KIIS and KAMP both lean heavily rhythmic in Los Angeles, but both CC and CBS have alternative stations in the market (and Clear Channel has a very Adult Top 40 Hot AC in KBIG) that share some of the 18 to 34 and 25 to 54 demos and are playing bands like Fun, etc. I'm sure some CHR PDs have been given marching orders to only touch the biggest of rock hits because they don't want to cannibalize sister stations?

I think you just hit the nail right on the head

Small radio companies don't have to protect sister stations like CC/CBS/Cumulus stations do

Yeah, this is true. Entercom has an exception in Milwaukee, where Kiss-FM has gotten more rhythmic sounding, as it's in the same cluster as Hot AC WMYX.

Like I said, though, WFBC is Entercom, and aside from the We The Kings track, I haven't heard them add anything pop/rock that the other CHR's aren't playing in quite a while...and we already have a rhythmic CHR (albeit poorly programmed)...

 

[only1moore]

Well, given WXSS' competition, this was bound to happen, but the shift to a Rhythmic-leaning direction seems to be working in their favor. On the other hand, WRNW has also clicked with listeners who like their balanced approach.

 

[carolinaradio]

Good night, WFBC is greatly cutting the spins for the pop/rock tracks and really upping the power rotation spins (now 115, used to be around 95) and upping the plays for the rhythmic tracks greatly - since we already have a rhythmic CHR (albeit poorly programmed), I don't really get it...

Looks like they're breaking away from the typical Entercom CHR mold (more balanced, pop/rock friendly)

 

[awp69]

Good night, WFBC is greatly cutting the spins for the pop/rock tracks and really upping the power rotation spins (now 115, used to be around 95) and upping the plays for the rhythmic tracks greatly - since we already have a rhythmic CHR (albeit poorly programmed), I don't really get it...

Looks like they're breaking away from the typical Entercom CHR mold (more balanced, pop/rock friendly)

Sad to hear. At least for CHR needs, I can still pick up KISS 95.1 and Channel 96.1 from Charlotte fairly well. As you mentioned, WFBC's new PD is from a rhythmic-leaning station, but I don't get it either. With JAMZ and Hot 98.1 in Greenville, urban/rhythmic is already well covered. WFBC will never touch JAMZ. And 98.1, also as you've mentioned, kind of "protects" JAMZ with its heavy rhytmic CHR rotation. We don't need yet another station trying to compete in that market.

Although WMYI's Hot AC-ish mix is not a great alternative, they do play some of the pop/rock stuff WFBC is/was playing so it may gain some listeners. There's just no end-game that I can see where this a good move for B93.7.  I can see WFBC taking a nose dive when it's ratings already aren't stellar.

 

[carolinaradio]

If WMYI can't get their act together (which I doubt), I wish they'd go adult-friendly CHR like WNWW/Jacksonville or WRNW/Milwaukee (both Clear Channel stations).

I listen to Channel 96.1 a lot. Like I said on the Charlotte board, they're really a fantastic CHR lately. They're really fun to listen to. 95.1 is alright too, but not extremely impressive.
I don't get the musical changes at B-93.7 either, unless it's that the PD's specialty is rhythmic and that is what he is familiar with. Maybe they want to take 98.1 off the map? They do sound much better than 98.1, though. Who knows. I remember when WFBC was really friendly towards acts like Andy Grammer, The Band Perry, Matt Nathanson, Colbie Caillat, etc. (fast on adult tracks, playing that kind of stuff before most other CHR's) but that type of material is non-existent there now. They still play We The Kings, but the plays are dropping. Not even showing much love towards Gavin DeGraw. They will be very interesting to watch in the next week, even.