WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR KIRO TO KEEP A PD?

[Mike Brewer]

Another one bites the dust as Larry Gifford resigned today.

In his "I'm outta here e-mail" Gifford said “As I’ve considered where we are and the road ahead, it has become clear to me that the type of leadership needed to keep moving these stations forward requires someone with different strengths and passions than mine."

His last day is March 1.

 

[345palm]

Ownership and management have tinkered that once-great station into mediocrity... like kneading a loaf of bread too much.

 

[Bongwater]

Ownership and management have tinkered that once-great station into mediocrity... like kneading a loaf of bread too much.

You're right.

That must really be hard for those at 1820 Eastlake, knowing their big commercial station with all it's resources behind it STILL can't beat that signally challenged PUBLIC News/Talker on 94.9 MHz.

I haven't listened to KIRO much in the last five years. Too much change in too little time for my ears. When you hear a good station, you like to know it will be the same in general for at least a year or two. But man, so much changes at KIRO, you can't even blink your eyes without something being changed or rearranged.

Unless you have really bad, untreated ADD, KIRO is REALLY not the first News/Talker station that comes up on your presets and.....Oh LOOK! A birdie!.......

That's the problem with having so many PDs in so little time. They all put their stamp on it so much in five years, that it all looks like old luggage.

At least KUOW is somewhat more stable. Dull, but stable. This is why people like KUOW. They have become what KIRO used to be (so much for the "younger demos". I mean, it's News/Talk. OK?)

 

[345palm]

KIRO doesn't even brand themselves as news or talk anymore!

 

[AQH]

KIRO doesn't even brand themselves as news or talk anymore!

You mean other than having "News Talk" in their logo?

 

[AQH]

You're right.

That must really be hard for those at 1820 Eastlake, knowing their big commercial station with all it's resources behind it STILL can't beat that signally challenged PUBLIC News/Talker on 94.9 MHz.

I haven't listened to KIRO much in the last five years. Too much change in too little time for my ears. When you hear a good station, you like to know it will be the same in general for at least a year or two. But man, so much changes at KIRO, you can't even blink your eyes without something being changed or rearranged.

Unless you have really bad, untreated ADD, KIRO is REALLY not the first News/Talker station that comes up on your presets and.....Oh LOOK! A birdie!.......

That's the problem with having so many PDs in so little time. They all put their stamp on it so much in five years, that it all looks like old luggage.

At least KUOW is somewhat more stable. Dull, but stable. This is why people like KUOW. They have become what KIRO used to be (so much for the "younger demos". I mean, it's News/Talk. OK?)

I'm confused, you haven't listened to KIRO much but you know about its problems with five PDs?

 

[345palm]

"News/Talk" is no longer in their logo or in the way they describe themselves on the air. It's simply "KIRO Radio" now.

 

[SeattleObserver]

KIRO doesn't even brand themselves as news or talk anymore!

You mean other than having "News Talk" in their logo?

Actually, this is the current "KIRO Radio" Logo:​

http://mynorthwest.com/emedia/seattle/8/854/85485.jpg?filter=mynw/175wide

& technically 12p-7p have stayed "the same" on weekdays since at least 2007 now, with some minor changes to presentation style. Even until recently 9a-noon is 'the same' with the exception of adding Luke Burbank to Dave Ross as a cohost.

 

[GenXRadio]

The problem is that you have news in the morning but other than that there's really no other hard news after 9am
You have Dave Ross with Luke Burbank but even as great as Dave is it's not a "news" program.
The Burbank hire was to try and bring in a younger demo and hold them to deliver them to Monson who's just a crotchety old man
and though he won't admit it his show is a conservative show and truth be told belongs on KTTH more than it does KIRO.
That brings you to Ron & Don who are morning show jocks put on in the afternoon and they try to do serious stories but really they shine most when they are "having fun" much more so than when they try to do a serious topic.
I know recently they were hiring someone to be a part time social media person for Monson's show, using it as an experiment on how to best use social media to interact with current & bring in new listeners.
What they fail to understand is that your average Monson listener isn't someone who uses social media a great deal, Burbank yes, Monson no and even if Dori is open to it it's going to miss the mark because his core listeners don't engage with the show in that fashion.
I also don't think that a listener who listens to Burbank is going to want to stick around for Monsons show, just a very different show, different kind of host, different politically as well.
This is not to bust on Monson, I just use him as an example because of recent station hirings, ie: the Social media position.
I also don't think that you can REALLY call yourself "News" Talk when you really only do maybe 5 hours of real news in a 24 hour broadcast day - which accounts for "Seattle's morning news from 5-9" as well as any news updates at top or bottom of the hour and network news updates.
That station needs a consistent voice at it's helm and if they want to be considered a "news" station they have to do more than what they're doing now and have to at least match KOMO with morning & afternoon drive news and use the middle ground for compelling content which would give them from 9/10 AM - 3PM to fill, you could have 2 -3 hour shows with Ross & Burbank and then either Monson or Ron & Don leading into the afternoon news.
Whatever they do they definitely need a strong voice leading it, 710 is doing very well and it's success I think only magnifies 97.3's failures.

 

[Wonderfulwino]

I think we can all agree on at least one thing: KIR0 has found out that existing and competing in the 21st century is a royal pain in the ass.

 

[radioguy123]

KIRO-FM did well with a strong news emphasis in the mornings, Ross and Monson, who have some news cred and then fun in the afternoon with Ron and Don. It was a formula that worked. Last year at this time the station was a solid second in the market 25-54 behind KISW. Moving Curley in the morning was a gutsy call, trying to lean the station more talk and personality. It didn't work and the news image was lost and with it went about 1/2 their AQH. Trouble with moving Ross to mornings to recapture news, is it may be too late and Burbank is not strong enough alone. Tough times. KOMO now has double KIRO's ratings in morning drive, and soundly beats them overall, it was the reverse just one year ago.

KIRO-FM's PD tried something different, it didn't work. It happens.

KIRO-AM road the wave of the Seahawks, they will begin to dip as they season ends. The station did a masterful job of keeping people locked in, I know they became a button on my dial mid-way through the Hawks season and never had been in the past. Doubt it will last beyond the Seahawks season, unless the Mariners make a run at it this year.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

I think KIRO-FM has become a victim of its own impatience, and PDs having to prove themselves to the sales department "bosses" overnight. To be a "news leader" requires consistency and substance over the long haul to develop a "legacy." The station had that when it was a 50kw AM. And there's no reason it can't do likewise on FM only. Except I think the frequent changes to the station make it hard to me, as a listener, to rely on them for what I'm wanting when I tune them in.
-- Including all of those little things, like, for instance, "traffic on the 7s." Where did that go? For awhile it was only in morning and afternoon drive. But I just can't listen to Ron and Don, even if I want something "fun", because the one of them (whichever one came here from New Orleans) sounds way too much like an old school disk jockey, with an overly deep voice that doesn't compensate for a lack of intellect. I still don't know for sure when a traffic report will air on KIRO-FM.
-- Then the local newscasts were moved to a few minutes before the hour. I eventually learned to like that, since I could get a mini news update, traffic and weather when KOMO was into two to thre minutes of commercials and KUOW was stretching out the break with endlessly overdrawn promos. Then that went away to truncate the CBS newscast and run a little local news and traffic at the same time KOMO does theirs. And now KIRO-FM has three minutes or so of commercials that make me tune away from all of them just before the hour.
-- Then there's the bigger stuff, like replacing Bill Radke with Curley, and now only one hour of Dave and Luke has weakened what I thought was their strongest weekday show. And Monson is such a turn off - he should be left to just do sports. He's neither entertaining, informative, nor stimulating for a station that wants to be the "news talk leader" in this market, as I hear it. Just a lot of noise and snark. More like the aural equivalent of those trashy flashing billboards that block the view of Mt Rainier along I-5 in Fife. I'd like to think KIRO-FM can do better than this.

 

[Wonderfulwino]

Of course, everyone on the outside looking in is an expert. Or not. Playing nuts under the cup every six months is not a good idea, for ANY business. What IS nuts is that KIRO has mostly good talent at hand. Mostly. Luke is not a solo act. If you care for monotone entertainment and watered down opinion on the news of the day..this is your guy.. Dave Ross works best by himself. A good newsman but stay out of his way.. Dori is.....Dori. Getting a bit stale. Ron and Don are good but I have to believe that the audience, regardless of age is getting a bit weary of the yelling and relentless whining..Honestly, I cant listen to Ron Upshaw go off on a commentary for more than 40 seconds without wanting to stick a gun in my mouth. He's like a parking lot car alarm that won't shut off. He just doesnt know when to cut it off and call it good. Whatever the answer is, corner office jerk and whiplash has to be getting old for the regulars.

 

[GenXRadio]

HOW does Monson have ANY "News cred" at all?
He doesn't! NEVER has! and truth be told he's even terrible on the Seahawks pre and post game show.
Not a news guy, not a sports guy yet for some reason people in this market thinks he has cred with either one.

 

[WKomm]

I'll weigh in and gladly take some pot-shots.

Like some of us here on the "outside" of KIRO, I have a lot of radio experience. Am I claiming to be an expert or have all the answers? Of course not. But a few things stand out and they are radio axioms that I've yet to see proven wrong.

It was told to me many years back that you can only take so many runs at the castle. Listeners will only buy "the all new" or "our new line-up" or "better than ever" for so long and for so many times before they leave for good. Some of the most successful stations I've worked at AND worked against got that way by using an old-fashioned word: consistent. I would mock a competing jock - even as he was whupping us - and came to realize that, good or bad, he/she was "one of us" to the listeners just because they'd been there a lomg time. All the changes KIRO send itself through have done its ratings no favors.

Block programming hasn't worked for decades. To be one station in the morning, something different mid-days, a whole different thing afternoons is also not helping. I'll wager most Ross listeners can't stomach Monson's whiny crankiness. Monson listeners would rather not spend time with Ron & Don. And the night shows have been a dizzying array of failures for over a long time. I've posted my opinion of Monson and Burbank before. Why they hang onto a misanthrope and a Gen X whiner with nothing to add of value is beyond me. And - again, a someone else pointed out - I cannot listen to Seahawk pre or post game stuff on KIRO because of Monson's jock-sniffing personality. He's like an eager pup, wanting SO badly to be an athlete and ang in the locker room ith the fellas rather than an audio water boy who yucks it up. No thanks.

As was pointed out - competing these days is tough but ... it's ALWAYS been tough. What I've seen as tough to do over the years is to hold your fire and change slowly and deliberately. Usually the driving force behind all the change is panicked management, demanding ownership and frightened sales execs. Very, very few broadcasters seem to be commited to the long run and, IMO, that's what it takes.

In my opinion - and it's just that ... an opinion - it might be time to take the losses, toss most everyone out and start all over - with an eye toward YEARS of rebuilding. The other side of the consistency coin is complacency. Both air talents and listeners become ho-hum about it all and stagnation sets in. I'm not advocating management uproot lives for the heck of it but there is a time to open the windows and clean the place out with fresh, young talent. Moving players around, changes every so often - it's not working.

KIRO is a heritage set of calls. Like many of you, I don't like seeing the station struggle. It used to be on my presets and I listened often. Now I listen rarely. Based on ratings, I'm thinking others are doing and thinking the same way.

 

[345palm]

A thoughtful post, indeed. Interesting to listen to KIRO trying to "own" the Dorner story today by tweeting something every 2 minutes and stealing live TV audio from CNN and KCBS. TV anchors describing the video their viewers are watching does not make for good "news radio" in Seattle. Sorry KIRO.

 

[Blatherwatch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-LO4BZ9ZQ&feature=player_embedded

Back in the day dozens worked behind the scene at stations like KIRO, not just typing up news stories but producers who lined up the week's guests for interviews and came up with topics. Ross et al used to be part of personality radio but also did a fair job of analysis.

Now it seems its just filling time with banter and hoping tomorrow doesn't begin with a pink slip. The short attention spans of today's listener(s) are to blame too. PPM' are inaccurate as well.

Formally top rated KGO was losing market share but it's worse now. The old adage of spending money to make money used to work, but it probably won't happen. Is a host worth as much money as they used to be? Ronn Owens new reduced contract at KGO says no. Pandora simulcast would probably do better on some stations than what is going on now.

 

[Wonderfulwino]

KIRO has always been Teflon coated in modern times. And the comment about consistency is spot on. When KIRO was top dog year after year, they DID make changes but did it so subtly and quietly that it didnt crash the audience. Now, KIRO is behaving like it's TV cousin. If you cant get a 40 share after two episodes, you're cancelled..

 

[scott salvatori]

KIRO has always been Teflon coated in modern times. And the comment about consistency is spot on. When KIRO was top dog year after year, they DID make changes but did it so subtly and quietly that it didnt crash the audience. Now, KIRO is behaving like it's TV cousin. If you cant get a 40 share after two episodes, you're cancelled..

ya......i actually started sticking with KIRO in the mornings when curley took over, after 10+ years of no KIROing. nope, never did listen to curley prior, or know much about him other him being an occasional guest on bob rivers, and had some local PM TV show that i never watched. the KIRO curley morning show came and went quick with the ratings. but, curley actually gave us some good entertainment, non contrived, non scripted dialog and patter in the mornings on KIRO, other than the same usual seattle left wing suck up talking points. dave ross, is a KIRO seattle radio heavy hitter in consistent plain white bread form. but curley, with dave ross might be a good mix as well, and add some meat to that bread and make a sandwich. but, everything is foresight, timing, tweaking and then consistency . If cadillac had produced an escalade in the 70's based on the chevy suburban it would have been a flop, and the butt of jokes. yet, a few decades later it is a top hipster status symbol that continues on the production line as we speak.

 

[bobdavcav]

I am seeing a lot of similarities to 98.9 on this thread. It seems as if they make some format tweak every 3 months or so. About puting money in and getting money back out, I think that's still a good strategy to follow. Look at CC Spokane. They've totally destroyed that cluster with the last round of cuts. Maybe if they actually allowed the local PD to program music locally, and the premium choice jocks did a show customized for Spokane it wouldn't be so bad, but what it sounded like they did is fired everybody then began airing the national format from IHeart Radio on time delay. Even KSWW sounds better than what CC has turned KISC into. Also, listen to KIXZ, yawn. Another station that this time flipped from country to CHR. I'm not sure how much local was on the country station, but they just blew it up and threw on the Premium Choice CHR format with some really dry imaging and expected it to destroy a CHR that actually sounds pretty decent with local programming. It probably doesn't work that way in all cases, but it certainly doesn't hurt to try local programming, and why change a station getting decent ratings?