I'm seeing all these format flips to sports from music stations. Why is this happening? I thought AM covered a lot more ground. I for one cannot stand listening to sports on the radio. Even watching sports on television stinks except maybe for football. All of you who are programing sports stations, you won't find me as a listener and suggest you change all those sports FM stations back to music, preferably to hot AC or smooth jazz.
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Why is Sports radio taking over FM?
- Thread starter icycool7227
- Start date
The perception among station owners is that AM is dying, for all formats. So they are moving their profitable, low-overhead, sports stations to FM.
Maybe we could put Smooth Jazz on 1250 AM, Pittsburgh for ya?
Maybe we could put Smooth Jazz on 1250 AM, Pittsburgh for ya?
icycool7227 said:
Only if you happen to be WFAN or WSCR, both being 50 kW ND sports stations at the low (good) end of the dial. I can't think of any other sports stations with the kind of coverage they have (but there are probably a few others that I can't recall right now). Most large- or medium-market AM stations don't cover their entire metro areas 24/7, especially those using four-digit frequencies. That's a handicap.
You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but sports on radio is still big with the Male Division Of The Sacred Sales DemosTM. They don't listen to AM other than for sports, and it's not always possible to be near a TV (say, if you're at work or driving). Moving to FM is only logical since the number of AM listeners younger than room-temperature is dropping like a rock. And if sports radio wasn't making money, it would have gone away long ago, but it can make more on FM than on AM. Even powerhouses WSCR and WFAN have mentioned the possibility of simulcasting on FM within the next couple of years.
The demise of smooth jazz stations is a subject for another board, but you can probably find what you want online very easily. I'm a jazz and blues fan and that's what I have to do, save for late evenings on our local NPR station. Those musical styles are not viable commercially.
It also works the other way around.
Seattle (KIRO) Indianapolis (WIBC) and Phoenix (KTAR) are perfect examples of an established AM talk format moving to the FM dial, which clears the way for the low-overhead sports formats to take over on the AM signal. It doesn't hurt that all three of these AM sports stations also have a good dose of play-by-play; KIRO has the Mariners, WFNI - the former WIBC - has the Colts, and KTAR has the Diamondbacks and Cardinals.
In CBS' case, they blew up failing FM "hot talkers" - the remnants of the failed Free FM experiment - in Washington, Baltimore, Detroit and Dallas in favor of a sports format (Pittsburgh's was an FM talker as well, but that was in-between "K-Rock" and CHR - and was never billed as "FreeFM"). CBS clearly had nothing to lose by installing sports on either of these stations, and in the case of Detroit, it's a proverbial home run.
As for 1250/Pittsburgh... who in the hell would want that station now?
Seattle (KIRO) Indianapolis (WIBC) and Phoenix (KTAR) are perfect examples of an established AM talk format moving to the FM dial, which clears the way for the low-overhead sports formats to take over on the AM signal. It doesn't hurt that all three of these AM sports stations also have a good dose of play-by-play; KIRO has the Mariners, WFNI - the former WIBC - has the Colts, and KTAR has the Diamondbacks and Cardinals.
In CBS' case, they blew up failing FM "hot talkers" - the remnants of the failed Free FM experiment - in Washington, Baltimore, Detroit and Dallas in favor of a sports format (Pittsburgh's was an FM talker as well, but that was in-between "K-Rock" and CHR - and was never billed as "FreeFM"). CBS clearly had nothing to lose by installing sports on either of these stations, and in the case of Detroit, it's a proverbial home run.
As for 1250/Pittsburgh... who in the hell would want that station now?
Nathan Obral said:
KIRO 710 is directional but looks like it covers most of the Seattle metro fairly well at night. But 710 is a mess (LA, Amarillo, KC, Bismarck, & Denver have to be protected) at night.
WFNI has horrid-to-nonexistant coverage at night in the many parts of the Indy metro, with their 10 kW nighttime signal shoehorned in (and it's been that way for close to 50 years). They have to protect many other stations, including KNX, hence the highly directional (to the SW from near Lebanon) signal at night.
KTAR runs only 5 kW, and gets weak 30-40 miles away from its transmitter on the near-NE side of the city. Trouble is, the Phoenix metro is about a 50 mile radius from downtown. I don't think they can get a power increase, not only because they have to protect stations in Portland, Dallas, & Fresno, but they would probably have to move their towers out of the city. They're literally in the middle of a shopping mall parking lot - the towers were there first, built in 1941 when the area was farmland.
Also, the Cards' flagship is KTAR-FM 92.3, not 620. They only put those games on the AM when there is no conflict with the D'backs, Suns, or ASU.
That's the kind of marginal station I was talking about: A 5 kW station that doesn't cover the entire Pittsburgh metro overly well at night, although city coverage looks OK per Radio-Locator.com.
KeithE4 said:
The problem with coverage maps is that the city limits of only the major cities often show up... making the coverage look pretty good.... if you don't know the city.
From a distance you don't know it the real estate that does not show up with the same color as the major city is barren land where people are mowing and bailing hay, or if it is a dense suburb complete with multi-story apartments and condos, along with single family homes standing shoulder-to-shoulder as far as the eye can see.
Those are the neighborhoods that are full of the consumers advertisers want to reach, and those are the neighborhoods with electrical garbage in the air that kills lightweight A.M. signals.
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
And in many cases, especially in Sun Belt cities like Phoenix, the money-neighborhoods of today didn't even exist when most of these AM stations were built. When KTAR moved its transmitter from downtown Phoenix to that farmland at 36th St. & Thomas Rd. in 1941, Ahwatukee Foothills, Paradise Valley, and north Snobsdale (aka "the filthy stinkin' rich parts of the Phoenix metro") weren't even thought up yet. They were 10 to 30 years away. Even the neighborhood that the towers are located in didn't exist until the '50s - the Tower Plaza mall (guess where it got that name! ;D ) opened in 1958. Fortunately for KTAR, they're not too far away from the towers. Newer suburbs such as Maricopa, Queen Creek, and Gold Canyon are much further away and can have problems picking up KTAR well (KGME and KDUS are all but non-existent that far out).
Other stations have the same problem if their metros' wealthier neighborhoods and suburbs didn't exist yet when the towers were built and directional patterns were set, probably back in the '40s or '50s.
Regarding WFNI: Many of the sports play-by-play properties are shared between WFNI and one of its FM sisters. Colts games are broadcast on both 1070 and 97.1 WLHK. The arrangement is the same for Indiana University. The Indiana Pacers this year move to FM-only on 93.1 WIBC, having been on 1070 WFNI only last year.
The WFNI night signal is highly undesirable with respect to the northern suburbs of Indy, which is where all the "new money" has been in the last 15 years.
The WFNI night signal is highly undesirable with respect to the northern suburbs of Indy, which is where all the "new money" has been in the last 15 years.
Living in an area where sports / sports talk has been on FM longer than in most, I can tell you that listeners are demanding it — they don't like listening to sporting events or even sports talk through the AM buzz. FM stations are being considered as a highly desirable aspect of awarding play-by-play contracts. Also, sports stations, which have turned out to be fairly profitable in most areas, have had to go to FM to chase young adult audiences who believe broadcast radio is somewhat dying (and for whom AM has long been dead and buried) with the exception of the ability to deliver live events. In addition, sports stations may end up being less costly to operate depending on what happens in the coming weeks regarding music play and artist royalties.
"Seattle (KIRO) Indianapolis (WIBC) and Phoenix (KTAR) are perfect examples of an established AM talk format moving to the FM dial, which clears the way for the low-overhead sports formats to take over on the AM signal. It doesn't hurt that all three of these AM sports stations also have a good dose of play-by-play; KIRO has the Mariners, WFNI - the former WIBC - has the Colts, and KTAR has the Diamondbacks and Cardinals."
Whatever gave you the idea that these stations have low overhead? Ever price out the rights to carry a baseball team? How do you think they get the "good dose of play-by-play" you refer to? Millions of dollars of investment, often unrecouped. I don't know about WIBC...but you can add NFL rights to KIRO and KTAR on top of baseball. Hardly inexpensive to operate.
Whatever gave you the idea that these stations have low overhead? Ever price out the rights to carry a baseball team? How do you think they get the "good dose of play-by-play" you refer to? Millions of dollars of investment, often unrecouped. I don't know about WIBC...but you can add NFL rights to KIRO and KTAR on top of baseball. Hardly inexpensive to operate.
icycool7227 said:
You're just mad that WABB won't send you a T-shirt.
Shoot From Hip said:
The Colts are on an FM as their primary station (Emmis' WLHK/97.1 "Hank FM", a country station I believe). The Seahawks are on the news/talk incarnation of KIRO-FM/97.3. The Cardinals don't appear to have an FM outlet in Phoenix.
I'm not sure I'd agree with Nathan on the "low-overhead" part with these AM sports stations, but it certainly happens elsewhere.
Clear Channel's WDFN/1130 "The Fan" in Detroit pared down to being a full-time Fox Sports Radio repeater - they've since re-added some local shows. The station is getting its lunch, dinner and breakfast eaten, as Nathan referenced, by CBS Radio's "97.1 The Ticket". When "The Ticket" was doing battle only with 1270 AM as its stick, WDFN was dominant.
OhioMediaWatch said:
The Cards' flagship is KTAR-FM 92.3. Only games that don't conflict with the Diamondbacks or Suns are carried on AM 620. The Cards' flagship stations have been FM (KESZ/99.9, KGLQ/96.9, KSLX/100.7, and KTAR-FM/92.3) since 1994. There have been AM simulcasts since 1996 (KIDR/740, KDUS/1060, and now KTAR/620 - no simulcast with KESZ), but the main station has been FM for a long time.
KeithE4 said:
Ah, blame a quick Google search, which led me to this page which appeared to be from the satellite provider for the Cards' network...it listed 620 as the flagship.
http://www.skyviewsatellite.com/azcardinals
Can't find the list on azcardinals.com, though I did find it in the PDF of their media guide (under "Miscellaneous").
In Philly the Eagles games are aired on both 610 WIP and 94.1 WYSP. The game sounds so much better on FM. You hear more of the sounds from the field on FM than you do on AM. I've been a loyal AM listener for years, but when I'm listening to the Eagles, I don't tune in to Wilmington's WDEL or WIP, I go to WYSP.
Now as far as sports talk on FM. There is a simulcast of of ESPN's WPEN 950 on 97.5. Sure, if given the choice, I put on 97.5. Wilmington has Fox Sports on WWTX 1290, but if it were available on a Wilmington or Philly FM, sure I'd switch to FM in a heart beat.
Same with political or topical talk. Why would someone choose to listen to whatever type talk show on AM if it were available on FM? It's just been that music has dominated FM not allowing for any spoken word programming to get a chance on FM, other than NPR and non-comm religious stations that have both music and spoken word programming. What has kept AM alive is talk/sports/religion/ethnic programming. As talk, sports, and religious programming move more and more to FM, AM will be left with ethnic and traffic information programming. As some of those ethnic groups make more and more money, eventually there format also will move to FM.
The University of Delaware a few years back switched their football games from Wilmington's WDEL-AM (which covers 2/3'rds of the state) to WDSD-FM that covers all of the state, also in a move to attract a younger audience. The smaller Wesley College now airs their games on WDEL, which was a good break for them. Del State airs still on AM WWTX. Also a number of high school football games are carried on WDEL and WWTX, so as the bigger teams move to FM, that will allow the smaller schools to get radio coverage on AM.
Now as far as sports talk on FM. There is a simulcast of of ESPN's WPEN 950 on 97.5. Sure, if given the choice, I put on 97.5. Wilmington has Fox Sports on WWTX 1290, but if it were available on a Wilmington or Philly FM, sure I'd switch to FM in a heart beat.
Same with political or topical talk. Why would someone choose to listen to whatever type talk show on AM if it were available on FM? It's just been that music has dominated FM not allowing for any spoken word programming to get a chance on FM, other than NPR and non-comm religious stations that have both music and spoken word programming. What has kept AM alive is talk/sports/religion/ethnic programming. As talk, sports, and religious programming move more and more to FM, AM will be left with ethnic and traffic information programming. As some of those ethnic groups make more and more money, eventually there format also will move to FM.
The University of Delaware a few years back switched their football games from Wilmington's WDEL-AM (which covers 2/3'rds of the state) to WDSD-FM that covers all of the state, also in a move to attract a younger audience. The smaller Wesley College now airs their games on WDEL, which was a good break for them. Del State airs still on AM WWTX. Also a number of high school football games are carried on WDEL and WWTX, so as the bigger teams move to FM, that will allow the smaller schools to get radio coverage on AM.
KeithE4 said:
WSCR will probably get to FM before WFAN does. Fresh 105.9 in Chicago still isn't doing well despite now being programmed by Jim Ryan.
Haven't heard anything about WFAN simulcasting on FM anytime soon, since CBS' three music FMs in NY are healthy. Speculation once again involves Emmis possibly dropping one NY station and ESPN possibly purchasing or LMAing WRXP 101.9 FM. If sports radio gets to FM in NY in the near future, it will be WEPN, not WFAN.
I'll never understand why Cox Radio resorted to selling its New York City rimshotter (WCTZ 96.7) to K-Love. I'd have brokered a deal to sell it to Emmis or Disney for either of their respective sports talk stations. IIRC, the newest CP for the station put a marginal-to-okay signal over Manhattan.
Nate Wesley said:
You answer your own question:
If Emmis or Disney puts an FM on the air, they probably wouldn't bother with a rimshot, even a semi-decent one. "Marginal" signals are not their game.
OhioMediaWatch said:
Absolutely! A rimshot FM won't solve ESPN's problem with 1050 AM. If ESPN gets to FM in the NY market, it will be on a class B FM from the ESB that blankets the area from Trenton, NJ to Bridgeport, CT.
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