Why Is There No Oldies Station in San Diego?

[asugeorge1]

This has perplexed me for years ever since 105.7 The Walrus flipped from an oldies format to a classic hits and then 80’s centric format back in 2014: why does San Diego not have any type of oldies station? I mean, there isn’t even one on any of the numerous HD subchannels being run in this town. Give me something!

I’m from Phoenix and I have been spoiled with KAZG, aka “The Lumberyard,” on 1440 AM (now known as Oldies 92.7 FM) with it’s drifting lamp timer and all, but I am spending more and more time in San Diego now and I plan on someday moving here, but the radio landscape is barren if you want Oldies or anything from the 1960’s. The closest thing (and I mean close by distance) is K-SUR 1260 AM out of Beverly Hills, CA, but that signal is unlistenable during the day here in San Diego and nonexistent at night. I used to be able to pick-up KRTH-HD2 out of Los Angeles with their monster HD signal and great 1950’s and 1960’s oldies format, but that alas has been gone for several years now. Any idea why there is no oldies station in San Diego or at least an oldies HD subchannel?

 

[TheBigA]

My first question to you is who would blow up what they're doing to replace it with an older-leaning format? Not Entercom, not iHeart, certainly not Univision. So who?

The stations you identify are either owned by local owners (KOAI or KSUR) or on an AM translator owned by Hubbard. That's what you need.

BTW the median age in San Diego and Phoenix are statistically equal, and statistically lower than their states.

 

[asugeorge1]

My first question to you is who would blow up what they're doing to replace it with an older-leaning format? Not Entercom, not iHeart, certainly not Univision. So who?

The stations you identify are either owned by local owners (KOAI or KSUR) or on an AM translator owned by Hubbard. That's what you need.

BTW the median age in San Diego and Phoenix are statistically equal, and statistically lower than their states.

I understand the limitations of putting it on a big FM signal, but why not at least an HD subchannel or a lower power AM station? I mean if something like “Groove Salad,” “The Angry Playlist,” “Funny FM” and “Nashville Legends” can pass as HD subchannels in San Diego, surely an oldies format could work. And, specifically speaking about I-Heart Radio, they run I Heart 60’s in Portland on KLTH 106.7 FM-HD2, and Portland is a pretty young city demographically speaking too.

Just curious because of all the cities I have visited on the west coast and InterMountain West (Seattle, Phoenix, Portland, San Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Boise, Tucson, Denver, El Centro and San Diego), San Diego seems to be the only major city that does not have an oldies station or even an adult standards station on AM, FM or HD radio. I could be wrong about the adult standards, but I have not found anything on the radio in San Diego that would even pass as adult standards or oldies.

 

[davideduardo]

I understand the limitations of putting it on a big FM signal, but why not at least an HD subchannel or a lower power AM station? I mean if something like “Groove Salad,” “The Angry Playlist,” “Funny FM” and “Nashville Legends” can pass as HD subchannels in San Diego, surely an oldies format could work. And, specifically speaking about I-Heart Radio, they run I Heart 60’s in Portland on KLTH 106.7 FM-HD2, and Portland is a pretty young city demographically speaking too.

Just curious because of all the cities I have visited on the west coast and InterMountain West (Seattle, Phoenix, Portland, San Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Boise, Tucson, Denver, El Centro and San Diego), San Diego seems to be the only major city that does not have an oldies station or even an adult standards station on AM, FM or HD radio. I could be wrong about the adult standards, but I have not found anything on the radio in San Diego that would even pass as adult standards or oldies.

LA, and most of the markets you mention, do not have oldies stations. Where they do, they are money-losing AM's like KSUR or limited translators or HD 2's such as Phoenix has, or ultra rimshots like KJUL somewhere in the next state from Las Vegas. .

Which of those markets has a standards station? I thought that standards died a decade with its listeners.

 

[asugeorge1]

LA, and most of the markets you mention, do not have oldies stations. Where they do, they are money-losing AM's like KSUR or limited translators or HD 2's such as Phoenix has, or ultra rimshots like KJUL somewhere in the next state from Las Vegas. .

Which of those markets has a standards station? I thought that standards died a decade with its listeners.

Las Vegas has KOOL 102.3, a very powerful FM translator of KQLL AM 1280 that blasts from high atop the Stratosphere on the Las Vegas Strip so signal penetration is good even in the big casino hotels on the Strip. Seattle has KIXI AM 880, which also broadcasts on 106.9 KRWM-HD3. KIXI is a hybrid adult standards and oldies station. Very well presented. San Francisco has an oldies station on an HD subchannel too.

 

[davideduardo]

Las Vegas has KOOL 102.3, a very powerful FM translator of KQLL AM 1280 that blasts from high atop the Stratosphere on the Las Vegas Strip so signal penetration is good even in the big casino hotels on the Strip. Seattle has KIXI AM 880, which also broadcasts on 106.9 KRWM-HD3. KIXI is a hybrid adult standards and oldies station. Very well presented. San Francisco has an oldies station on an HD subchannel too.

An HD with no translator is of no significance.

KIXI is an AM trying to play music. Not a viable format. Look at long-time standards station WHLI on Long Island: they just let the airstaff go and are now automated on a workstation. No revenue, listeners over 65.

While the Vegas translator covers the central area of Paradise (the unincorporated area where the majority of hotels are) it does not reach the residential areas very well. Its 70 dbu only covers about 1/3 of the market. 250 watts, in any case, is not "very powerful" and it does not "blast" anywhere.

My point is that oldies is not commercially viable as a revenue-producing format in larger markets, and standards are even less viable

 

[BamaTX]

I plan on someday moving here, but the radio landscape is barren if you want Oldies or anything from the 1960’s.

"Oldies" is dying format. No money to be made from an aging demographic so it's becoming a very nice format. Fortunately for you, we are no longer chained to what is only on the dial thanks to technology. Most high end radios in new cars have integrated apps such as Spotify, Pandora, Google Play, Apple Music, or even TuneIn.

So don't worry, you'll be able to stream any playlist you create or even any of the stations you mentioned throughout San Diego without any issues.

 

[CTListener]

An HD with no translator is of no significance.

KIXI is an AM trying to play music. Not a viable format. Look at long-time standards station WHLI on Long Island: they just let the airstaff go and are now automated on a workstation.

WHLI has been soft '60s-through-'80s hits for about three years -- I'm in signal range and actually check in on it once in a while. They do still sponsor standards-type shows in their area (Capris, Paul Anka, Engelbert, etc.) and use the old MOYL heart in their logo, but they haven't been a standards station for some time now, not unless you consider songs like "All Out of Love" and "Me and Julio Down By the Schoolyard" standards. The acts whose concerts they sponsor aren't even on the playlist anymore, no idea why the sponsorships continue.

 

[Dr. Sound]

KFSD 1450 am Escondido has been off the air for a while now, perhaps a local casino "flush with cash" can energize this station with automated cool oldies. Or maybe defunct KPRO 1570 am Riverside can move down to north San Diego county . . .

 

[davideduardo]

KFSD 1450 am Escondido has been off the air for a while now, perhaps a local casino "flush with cash" can energize this station with automated cool oldies. Or maybe defunct KPRO 1570 am Riverside can move down to north San Diego county . . .

I do not think that 1570 can be used so close to the Mexican border. 1570 is a Mexican clear channel.

 

[vchimpanzee]

WHLI has been soft '60s-through-'80s hits for about three years -- I'm in signal range and actually check in on it once in a while. They do still sponsor standards-type shows in their area (Capris, Paul Anka, Engelbert, etc.) and use the old MOYL heart in their logo, but they haven't been a standards station for some time now, not unless you consider songs like "All Out of Love" and "Me and Julio Down By the Schoolyard" standards. The acts whose concerts they sponsor aren't even on the playlist anymore, no idea why the sponsorships continue.

This reminds me that on WEZV, while The Lettermen and people performing music by artists such as Sinatra get played during commercials for concerts or places to go, WEZV doesn't play them in between commercials. I don't think anyone does in Myrtle Beach.

 

[asugeorge1]

KFSD 1450 am Escondido has been off the air for a while now, perhaps a local casino "flush with cash" can energize this station with automated cool oldies. Or maybe defunct KPRO 1570 am Riverside can move down to north San Diego county . . .

How long has KFSD AM 1450 been off the air now? I would like to see them come back on the air, they are one of the few north county specific radio stations. I also agree that an oldies format would work great on that station!

 

[Frequency1]

How long has KFSD AM 1450 been off the air now? I would like to see them come back on the air, they are one of the few north county specific radio stations. I also agree that an oldies format would work great on that station!

Date Station has gone / will go silent: 06/01/2019

 

[kf4rca]

Atlanta has no oldies station either. But they have 15 Hip Hop/ Urban stations.

 

[CTListener]

Atlanta has no oldies station either. But they have 15 Hip Hop/ Urban stations.

The Nielsen beauty pageant numbers indicate 7 stations labeled "urban" or "urban AC" and one labeled "rhythmic CHR." That's 8, not 15, by my calculation. Are that many stations mislabeled or Nielsen nonsubscribers? The demographics of the market, which skew young and black, would indicate that eight signals playing some type of current-based African-American popular music would have a better chance of finding an audience and advertisers than a signal playing oldies, even one that's mixing some Temptations and Aretha Franklin in with its Beach Boys and Elton John.

 

[davideduardo]

The Nielsen beauty pageant numbers indicate 7 stations labeled "urban" or "urban AC" and one labeled "rhythmic CHR." That's 8, not 15, by my calculation. Are that many stations mislabeled or Nielsen nonsubscribers? The demographics of the market, which skew young and black, would indicate that eight signals playing some type of current-based African-American popular music would have a better chance of finding an audience and advertisers than a signal playing oldies, even one that's mixing some Temptations and Aretha Franklin in with its Beach Boys and Elton John.

The format labels are done by the websites that publish the numbers. That is why from site to site the formats for some stations change.

I looked at another listing, and only viewed the commercial stations.

I excluded the AMs, translators and anything that was not Urban or Urban AC:

WALR
WVEE
WAMJ / WUMJ
WHTA
WRDG (Suburban and limited)

So there are really only 4 contenders in the Urban arena, covering two distinct formats, Urban and Urban AC. Between the four, there are nearly $50 million in billing, about a quarter of the market's total billing. Considering that the market is 35% African American, we can see that the "ethnic discount" that has long affected Black and Hispanic targeted stations is still in effect.

Adding Rhythmic CHR stations into the discussion is like saying that because Quixie played the Four Tops and the Supremes that it was an r&b station. Black music has a long, long history of crossing over onto general market stations.

 

[kf4rca]

Streetz 94.5

is doing very well for a translator (W233BF) in Atlanta. Before Streetz signed on, there was a pirate (Riddum 94.5) on that frequency.

 

[kf4rca]

I count 7 here and that's not counting Streetz 94.5:

https://ratings.****************/content/arb047

 

[davideduardo]

I count 7 here and that's not counting Streetz 94.5:

https://ratings.****************/content/arb047

One is a stream of one of the bigger players, another is a limited coverage station at the edge of the market and another is a translator.

That gets us back to 4 main players.

Neither the suburban station nor the translator (listed as an HD2) is going to generate revenue.

I specifically said "not including translators" and I excluded the suburban station as it bills less than 0.1% of market revenue.

Including translators, there are 122 stations licensed to the Atlanta metro. The first 20 of those take $200 million out of the roughly $210 million in market revenues. In that 20-station group, there are four urban stations. All 4 are in the top 10 billers (WALR is in a 4-way tie for 10th), and the 4 average 23 to 24 shares in total in 25-54.

 

[CTListener]

In the course of this discussion, we have now gone from 15 to 8 to 7 to 4 viable urban stations in Atlanta, a market with a large and mostly young black population. Four. And you wonder why no one wants to try a format that will mainly appeal to over-60 white guys?