Why Is There No Oldies Station in San Diego?

[asugeorge1]

In the course of this discussion, we have now gone from 15 to 8 to 7 to 4 viable urban stations in Atlanta, a market with a large and mostly young black population. Four. And you wonder why no one wants to try a format that will mainly appeal to over-60 white guys?

I started this topic to talk about the lack of an “oldies” station in San Diego, not in Atlanta. Those two cities have different demographics.

Specifically, I think an oldies station makes more sense in North County San Diego, but unfortunately there are no viable radio stations serving the north county. It is sandwiched in between the San Diego stations that get blocked by the various mountains and hills from the San Diego sticks in La Jolla causing static while LA and San Bernardino stations are too far away (except for KRTH which comes in good everywhere). San Diego North County is definitely an underserved radio market.

Of course, there is no harm for an Atlanta or San Diego station putting an oldies station on one of their HD subchannels!

 

[davideduardo]

San Diego North County is definitely an underserved radio market.

Did you know that North County once had its own Arbitron book? It was an embedded market within San Diego, but there were enough stations serving the area to pay for a separate book.

The FMs upgraded and moved south to serve more of the SD market, and the AMs ceased to be viable. So SD North County ceased to be a separate market.

 

[asugeorge1]

Did you know that North County once had its own Arbitron book? It was an embedded market within San Diego, but there were enough stations serving the area to pay for a separate book.

The FMs upgraded and moved south to serve more of the SD market, and the AMs ceased to be viable. So SD North County ceased to be a separate market.

I did not know that David! Very interesting. Thanks for the information!

I know the North County also used to have their own newspaper, the North County Times, which was bought out by The San Diego Union-Tribune earlier this decade. There was a north county edition of the San Diego Union-Tribune after the merger, but that was short-lived. Now, there are no newspapers nor radio stations covering the north county. Today, North County coverage from The San Diego Union-Tribune is spotty at best and the San Diego radio stations tend to ignore the North County despite it still being a growing region in eastern Oceanside, San Marcos, Escondido and Fallbrook.

I have often thought that southern Orange County and northern San Diego County are very similar demographic wise, but they are always overshadowed by their respective bigger cities. If it weren’t for Camp Pendleton in between, the two would be one of the same (thank goodness for Camp Pendleton because it preserves the only significant stretch of undeveloped beachside land in Southern California). Lucky for Orange County, they have their own newspaper, the Orange County Register, and some local radio stations. Combined, Orange County and North County would make a pretty formidable media market!

 

[kf4rca]

I just wanted to point out that San Diego is not the only market without an oldies station. I think somebody here has oldies on one of their subchannels. But it just seems to me that you should be able to receive old music on an old radio.
The problem with that format is you probably couldn't sell enough spots at a good rate to pay your overhead. If you had your real estate paid for, you might be able to break even.
I hear oldies stations in Gadsden ALA. (WGAD), Birmington ALA, (WVOK) and Chattanooga TN (WFLI). All AM's. So I think they do OK in smaller markets where the overhead is lower.

 

[TheBigA]

The problem with that format is you probably couldn't sell enough spots at a good rate to pay your overhead. If you had your real estate paid for, you might be able to break even.

Which is why in LA, for example, oldies radio is either on a college station (KCSN) or a heritage AM (KSUR). The owner of the AM has no debt, but said recently he doesn't make enough to pay his power bill.

 

[Signal Geek]

How long has KFSD AM 1450 been off the air now? I would like to see them come back on the air, they are one of the few north county specific radio stations. I also agree that an oldies format would work great on that station!

For the final year or two of its life, AM 1450 HAD an oldies format (albeit Music Of Your Life, Perry Como/Tony Bennett-style standards). And it had no ratings. I never heard any ads, either. Probably why they went silent.

 

[DaveMasonsd]

Great post-and great questions/responses as well. "The format" (Oldies) is indeed appealing to a much older group of people than advertisers want. I had heard that 1450 was available (to buy) for $10,000. Its transmitter is in the parking lot of a brewery in Escondido but does a poor job of reaching south. Between LA and Tijuana the radio dial in San Diego is pretty crowded. I think 1470 in TJ has (on occasion) played some "oldies" and KXO in El Centro was known for it. But the noise levels are so high that a 1kw station these days is about as effective as a 100 watter would have been 20 years ago. Add to that the horrendous frequency response of most AM radios you've got 2 strikes. The lack of "mass appeal" stations is the third strike. KOGO, KFMB (AM), KFI and KNX cover the bases here and none of them plays music. A noble gesture to try to get 50s and 60s music on the air but let's face it. AM radio is not the medium for music. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Your_Life gives you some of the Al Ham story -and how he successfully put 40s and 50s music on the air (in 78 -and forward), and it was back then you could actually get great fidelity out of an AM receiver. I heard CKLW playing Glenn Miller in 1986 from across the river and it was incredible. Fast forward to 2019 when 1450 was still on the air, it was "okay" -but hearing Rod Stewart sing "Fly Me To The Moon" was just a little too much. In 2020 someone trying to put a new station (AM or FM) on the air needs a few things - including a good signal to cover the population spread, a lot of money for marketing and some common sense. The deep pockets will be the biggest problem. Thanks for keeping this thread alive.

 

[golden eagles97]

A lot of “oldies” stations these days are classic hits.

 

[GeoffR]

An HD with no translator is of no significance.

KIXI is an AM trying to play music. Not a viable format. Look at long-time standards station WHLI on Long Island: they just let the airstaff go and are now automated on a workstation. No revenue, listeners over 65.

While the Vegas translator covers the central area of Paradise (the unincorporated area where the majority of hotels are) it does not reach the residential areas very well. Its 70 dbu only covers about 1/3 of the market. 250 watts, in any case, is not "very powerful" and it does not "blast" anywhere.

My point is that oldies is not commercially viable as a revenue-producing format in larger markets, and standards are even less viable

Have you ever driven the Las Vegas area and listened to 102.3's translator, David? It covers the area very well from North Las Vegas down through Henderson. It is one of the few translators in the country that covers a market well. It DOES cover the residential areas there.

 

[johndavis]

Have you ever driven the Las Vegas area and listened to 102.3's translator, David? It covers the area very well from North Las Vegas down through Henderson. It is one of the few translators in the country that covers a market well. It DOES cover the residential areas there.

250 watts from the top of the Strat might come in okay in the car, but it doesn't get into homes and offices very well. The laws of physics apply to everyone.

Radio needs more than in-car listening to be successful.

 

[asugeorge1]

250 watts from the top of the Strat might come in okay in the car, but it doesn't get into homes and offices very well. The laws of physics apply to everyone.

Radio needs more than in-car listening to be successful.

From my own real world tests in Las Vegas, I have had KOOL 102.3 come in crystal clear at my various hotel stays around Las Vegas. I have not had a problem picking up KOOL 102.3 inside my hotel on the Strip, out in Henderson and also Summerlin using a pretty standard Sangean radio. Around Las Vegas, KOOL 102.3 does a great job for a translator. The minute you get outside the bowl and over the hill in any direction, it goes away.