K
K-RockFan
Guest
But i think K-rock has the best PLAYLIST.
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But i think K-rock has the best PLAYLIST.
Sure it may be the best playlist. But the fact of the matter is, the station's not going to do well, if CBS/Infinity doesn't throw the money behind it to properly market it. If you're running the station as a throwaway, then it's not going to generate interest (i.e. ratings) to make any kind of a dent in the market.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand you correctly, the point you're trying to make is to give this station a chance. I'm all for that, but you need committment money and personnel wise to make that happen. Once you've done that, and if it STILL doesn't work, then you can say "OK, we tried it, we failed, now what's next? I know! All polkas all the time!
"
Sure it may be the best playlist. But the fact of the matter is, the station's not going to do well, if CBS/Infinity doesn't throw the money behind it to properly market it. If you're running the station as a throwaway, then it's not going to generate interest (i.e. ratings) to make any kind of a dent in the market.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand you correctly, the point you're trying to make is to give this station a chance. I'm all for that, but you need committment money and personnel wise to make that happen. Once you've done that, and if it STILL doesn't work, then you can say "OK, we tried it, we failed, now what's next? I know! All polkas all the time!
" When I was looking at DVE's playlist on yes.com, it doesn't seem like they are playing any new rock songs anymore. I would assume if K ROCK were to change, DVE would add the new rock songs back to their playlists. However if the ratings stay stable for DVE, Don't fix what ain't broke.
When I was looking at DVE's playlist on yes.com, it doesn't seem like they are playing any new rock songs anymore. I would assume if K ROCK were to change, DVE would add the new rock songs back to their playlists. However if the ratings stay stable for DVE, Don't fix what ain't broke.
Precisely. Those call letters have a lot of benefits to the top market position...market heritage and top-of-mind recall. They may straddle the fence at times between new and classic rock, but they'll sway to the needs of the market, and right now, the market wants classic rock. That's not to say we won't ever see a shift in the wind towards new rock again, though.
Precisely. Those call letters have a lot of benefits to the top market position...market heritage and top-of-mind recall. They may straddle the fence at times between new and classic rock, but they'll sway to the needs of the market, and right now, the market wants classic rock. That's not to say we won't ever see a shift in the wind towards new rock again, though.
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Radio_Realist
Guest
Those call letters have a lot of benefits to the top market position
I don't know about your radio, but I have to tune mine to 102.5, I can't tune it to WDVE.
I don't know about your radio, but I have to tune mine to 102.5, I can't tune it to WDVE.
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Johnny Morgan
Guest
Thanks. That really adds to the discussion.
How obtuse. Come on, really.
How obtuse. Come on, really.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
Come on, really.
The point is that well-known call letters aren't as big a deal as some people make them out to be. No matter how well known the call letters are (or aren't), it's getting the people to know the frequency that is most important for getting listeners.
If I didn't hang out in this forum, I wouldn't know that "K-Rock" refers to 93.7, unless I already was a K-Rock listener.
The point is that well-known call letters aren't as big a deal as some people make them out to be. No matter how well known the call letters are (or aren't), it's getting the people to know the frequency that is most important for getting listeners.
If I didn't hang out in this forum, I wouldn't know that "K-Rock" refers to 93.7, unless I already was a K-Rock listener.
J
Johnny Morgan
Guest
But you knew, do know, and always will know that DVE is at 102.5 because they have always put the two together. (And you've always listened to the station...)
But even besides that, a large number of listeners find stations all the time using search/scan functions...coming across "new" (for the moment) stations all the time. So knowing the frequency isn't always that important either.
Isn't always what music/talk/programming is interesting or enjoyable that decides where listeners go? Isn't that your endlessly-belabored point?
But even besides that, a large number of listeners find stations all the time using search/scan functions...coming across "new" (for the moment) stations all the time. So knowing the frequency isn't always that important either.
Isn't always what music/talk/programming is interesting or enjoyable that decides where listeners go? Isn't that your endlessly-belabored point?
The point is that well-known call letters aren't as big a deal as some people make them out to be. No matter how well known the call letters are (or aren't), it's getting the people to know the frequency that is most important for getting listeners.
Realist, I half-agree with you. With most of the stations playing the format of the week, you may only be able to identify them by their channel. Just about everyone I know refers to WDVE by their last three call letters and KDKA as KD. Not as 102.5 or as 1020. I would expect a reference to Star 100.7 as simply 100.7, since it hasn't been around all that long, as an example.
Realist, I half-agree with you. With most of the stations playing the format of the week, you may only be able to identify them by their channel. Just about everyone I know refers to WDVE by their last three call letters and KDKA as KD. Not as 102.5 or as 1020. I would expect a reference to Star 100.7 as simply 100.7, since it hasn't been around all that long, as an example.
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Radio_Realist
Guest
But you knew, do know, and always will know that DVE is at 102.5 because they have always put the two together.
The boldfaced words are what I was getting at. For the first two decades of WDVE's existence, you never saw a bumper sticker or other promotional ad for 'DVE that didn't also include 102.5.
Just about everyone I know refers to WDVE by their last three call letters and KDKA as KD.
Sure, and they've been around what seems like forever. Johnny-come-lately's like K-Rock don't have the luxury of being able to succeed with just a nickname.
The boldfaced words are what I was getting at. For the first two decades of WDVE's existence, you never saw a bumper sticker or other promotional ad for 'DVE that didn't also include 102.5.
Just about everyone I know refers to WDVE by their last three call letters and KDKA as KD.
Sure, and they've been around what seems like forever. Johnny-come-lately's like K-Rock don't have the luxury of being able to succeed with just a nickname.
J
Johnny Morgan
Guest
Can we change that phrase? I don't want to be associated with the station... ;D
And even now, you don't see a DVE sticker (or other promo stuff) without the frequency in there somewhere.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
And even now, you don't see a DVE sticker (or other promo stuff) without the frequency in there somewhere.
And some people wonder why 'DVE is a success, and K-Rock a failure!
I've never heard of any business that succeeded without letting customers (listeners) know how to get to the place (or tune it in).
And some people wonder why 'DVE is a success, and K-Rock a failure!
I've never heard of any business that succeeded without letting customers (listeners) know how to get to the place (or tune it in).
Just about everyone I know refers to WDVE by their last three call letters and KDKA as KD.
Sure, and they've been around what seems like forever. Johnny-come-lately's like K-Rock don't have the luxury of being able to succeed with just a nickname.
You just proved my point. Thank you.
Sure, and they've been around what seems like forever. Johnny-come-lately's like K-Rock don't have the luxury of being able to succeed with just a nickname.
You just proved my point. Thank you.
Re DVE and new songs, they do play Nickelback and I think I heard Aerosmith's new song. Which makes me say...long live the oldies. LOL.
I guess they've officially written off Paul McCartney as too wussy because I think some of his latest songs would have been fine on DVE, but what do I know.
I guess they've officially written off Paul McCartney as too wussy because I think some of his latest songs would have been fine on DVE, but what do I know.
DVE is what it is and for the most part what it has always been. You never have to guess at what you are getting. Its the same reason places like Eat 'N Park and McDonalds are still in business. Your expectations are met.
K-Rock has a morning show with no traction, an inconsistent playlist, no big promo budget and no local talent to promote. The format was tossed together around Stern and now that he's in orbit there is nothing to anchor the station.
Their numbers are toast, they can barely give the ad time away and they show no hope of improvement. If management wasn't so busy with the gurgling sounds coming out of Gateway Center they would have already pulled the plug on this cadaver.
K-Rock has a morning show with no traction, an inconsistent playlist, no big promo budget and no local talent to promote. The format was tossed together around Stern and now that he's in orbit there is nothing to anchor the station.
Their numbers are toast, they can barely give the ad time away and they show no hope of improvement. If management wasn't so busy with the gurgling sounds coming out of Gateway Center they would have already pulled the plug on this cadaver.
Curious- Snafu-
Why do you think Opie and Anthony have no traction? Maybe I'm not getting something, but I would think if a station was built around Stern as their morning guy then O and A would work as well.
After all, Stern left The X and nobody is contemplating a format change there to all polkas or what not. Heck, they even lost Stern's morning replacement!
Inconsistent playlist. This, to me, is the saving grace of the station.
I'm a classic rock fan, but had gotten away from WDVE because they simply were playing the same songs over and over.
And to be honest, lots of them weren't necessarily songs I was all that crazy about. I'm officially sick of The Clarks, for instance.
I can appriciate wanting to be local but there are other local artists out there.
To me, K-Rock is a lot like what WDVE was circa 1990 in terms of playlist- the era where I felt WDVE was "MUST LISTEN RADIO." In 1990 I might here Uriah Heep or Hendrix- but I'd also hear stuff from Slaughter or what not. It kept me abreast of what was going on in contemporary rock- but also helped me appriciate where contemporary rock was coming from.
That's what K-Rock does now. What you call "inconsistent" I think is actually the station's drawing card.
What I think the station's problem is is that they so heavily invested in promoting David Lee Roth- and the show was a turkey. Now- there's very little left to promote Opie and Anthony with- and O & A are on a revival.
I also think a few old hangers on from the B-94 days have been wringing their hands hoping for the station's demise and so any ratings drop- no matter how large or small- is going to be amplified by them on this board.
Again- I like the fact I have heard the hair bands I grew up with on the show mixed in with enough new stuff that I don't worry about becoming an old fart.
Why do you think Opie and Anthony have no traction? Maybe I'm not getting something, but I would think if a station was built around Stern as their morning guy then O and A would work as well.
After all, Stern left The X and nobody is contemplating a format change there to all polkas or what not. Heck, they even lost Stern's morning replacement!
Inconsistent playlist. This, to me, is the saving grace of the station.
I'm a classic rock fan, but had gotten away from WDVE because they simply were playing the same songs over and over.
And to be honest, lots of them weren't necessarily songs I was all that crazy about. I'm officially sick of The Clarks, for instance.
I can appriciate wanting to be local but there are other local artists out there.
To me, K-Rock is a lot like what WDVE was circa 1990 in terms of playlist- the era where I felt WDVE was "MUST LISTEN RADIO." In 1990 I might here Uriah Heep or Hendrix- but I'd also hear stuff from Slaughter or what not. It kept me abreast of what was going on in contemporary rock- but also helped me appriciate where contemporary rock was coming from.
That's what K-Rock does now. What you call "inconsistent" I think is actually the station's drawing card.
What I think the station's problem is is that they so heavily invested in promoting David Lee Roth- and the show was a turkey. Now- there's very little left to promote Opie and Anthony with- and O & A are on a revival.
I also think a few old hangers on from the B-94 days have been wringing their hands hoping for the station's demise and so any ratings drop- no matter how large or small- is going to be amplified by them on this board.
Again- I like the fact I have heard the hair bands I grew up with on the show mixed in with enough new stuff that I don't worry about becoming an old fart.
I've read this thread with some interest, and while I'm not much of a cumer/consumer of K-Rock, here's my two cents:
B-94 may have been in a wheelchair by the time they euthanized it, but it's hard to wipe out 23 years of heritage, and I suspect any reincarnation of B-94 would get better ratings than K-Rock has at the moment.
I think K-Rock will be in the shadow of B-94 for a while. Maybe in four, five or six years it won't matter, but right now it does.
O&A and Kidd Chris may help. In fact, they probably will. But then they'll be approaching a talk format, and if there's a market where FREE-FM is working, please point it out to me. No offense, but we already have one syndicated talk FM station.
DVE is the 800-pound gorilla, and K-Rock is not the right David for that Goliath. You would think that with 'RRK giving up the ghost, someone would figure it out.
Just my opinion. Worked at B-94 three times, I'm surely biased.
B-94 may have been in a wheelchair by the time they euthanized it, but it's hard to wipe out 23 years of heritage, and I suspect any reincarnation of B-94 would get better ratings than K-Rock has at the moment.
I think K-Rock will be in the shadow of B-94 for a while. Maybe in four, five or six years it won't matter, but right now it does.
O&A and Kidd Chris may help. In fact, they probably will. But then they'll be approaching a talk format, and if there's a market where FREE-FM is working, please point it out to me. No offense, but we already have one syndicated talk FM station.
DVE is the 800-pound gorilla, and K-Rock is not the right David for that Goliath. You would think that with 'RRK giving up the ghost, someone would figure it out.
Just my opinion. Worked at B-94 three times, I'm surely biased.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
I would think if a station was built around Stern as their morning guy then O and A would work as well.
At the risk of repeating myself (which has never stopped me in the past), the only people who know that K-Rock now has Opie and Anthony on the air in the morning are the handful of people who listen to K-Rock anyway. I would think that if I was running K-Rock, and I had a morning show like O & A I wouldn't be doing my level best to keep it a secret.
At the risk of repeating myself (which has never stopped me in the past), the only people who know that K-Rock now has Opie and Anthony on the air in the morning are the handful of people who listen to K-Rock anyway. I would think that if I was running K-Rock, and I had a morning show like O & A I wouldn't be doing my level best to keep it a secret.
Realist, before you repeat yourself too much, O & A has significant TV advertising in our market (as well as a national campaign), cross promotion on XM, a strong web presence that goes beyond its own website (i.e., phenomenal youtube results), bumper stickers being distributed locally and appearances at the "right" events for the demographic. Granted, no Billboards... Although, actually, I believe bus cards are coming.
Clarke, as usual, you are right on target, although I sometimes wonder if B-94 may be fading as a viable moniker for a hits station targeted at today's kids. On the other hand, and just for fun, how about a format change to K-TALK and present it as a "hipper" KDKA, Keep O & A, Chris and Lovelines and add a few local and other shows, all with a sharp edge. Rely on KDKA TV and AM for news and occasionally "steer" people to KDKA for more in-depth coverage of events. Could be alot of fun...this said, I am not at all the listener that K-ROCK is targeting yet I like the station alot. I enjoy the music/talk combo, like the mix of music, and think the jocks are allowed to be human and interact with their audience to a degree many others don't have. In fact, K-ROCK's jocks actually keep me listening to music I would not otherwise listen to and the processing is nice and clean.
Now if only they'd get some PAMs jingles....
Although, actually, I believe bus cards are coming. Clarke, as usual, you are right on target, although I sometimes wonder if B-94 may be fading as a viable moniker for a hits station targeted at today's kids. On the other hand, and just for fun, how about a format change to K-TALK and present it as a "hipper" KDKA, Keep O & A, Chris and Lovelines and add a few local and other shows, all with a sharp edge. Rely on KDKA TV and AM for news and occasionally "steer" people to KDKA for more in-depth coverage of events. Could be alot of fun...this said, I am not at all the listener that K-ROCK is targeting yet I like the station alot. I enjoy the music/talk combo, like the mix of music, and think the jocks are allowed to be human and interact with their audience to a degree many others don't have. In fact, K-ROCK's jocks actually keep me listening to music I would not otherwise listen to and the processing is nice and clean.
Now if only they'd get some PAMs jingles...
.Thanks for bringing up the advertising, Vet. Though in Realist's defense- O and A has not been promoted as much as David Lee Roth was- but then again DLR advertising had to take a major hit out of the station's budget.
Another thing- I like the creativity of your idea. I'm not sure I would prefer the station you talk about more than what I'm hearing now- however.
One thing that might be holding the station back is not the playlist but rather the fact it changes formats all the time. It's noon and it's music. It's 3 p.m. and it's talk. It's 6 p.m. and it's music. It's 11 p.m. and it's talk.
Even the old KDKA- when they switched from music to talk- had some consistency. You knew from 9-4:30 or so it would be bland music. Then Ninety to Six came on and the rest of the day was talk.
As for B-94, no offense, but I'm getting a little sick of these people waxing poetic for it. Six years to forget B-94? I would say by now it is as forgotten as "The Rebel 104.7" or "Mix Jamz 100.7" or my own personal favorite- "The Force 106.7."
I really see no future for contemporary hit radio. Audiences are much more segregated nowadays than when Top 40 ruled the airwaves.
Another thing- I like the creativity of your idea. I'm not sure I would prefer the station you talk about more than what I'm hearing now- however.
One thing that might be holding the station back is not the playlist but rather the fact it changes formats all the time. It's noon and it's music. It's 3 p.m. and it's talk. It's 6 p.m. and it's music. It's 11 p.m. and it's talk.
Even the old KDKA- when they switched from music to talk- had some consistency. You knew from 9-4:30 or so it would be bland music. Then Ninety to Six came on and the rest of the day was talk.
As for B-94, no offense, but I'm getting a little sick of these people waxing poetic for it. Six years to forget B-94? I would say by now it is as forgotten as "The Rebel 104.7" or "Mix Jamz 100.7" or my own personal favorite- "The Force 106.7."
I really see no future for contemporary hit radio. Audiences are much more segregated nowadays than when Top 40 ruled the airwaves.
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