Why isn't their more DTV Sub channels in Tucson.

[ShowLow]

I've alway's wondered this. They have the space, the local affiliates just don't seem to want to use it. KVOA has a weather or news sub channel only available on cable, why don't they add that to DTV as well? Does anyone know if anymore subchannles are in the works.

 

[landtuna]

It may be due to the networks prohibiting subs. In Phoenix the ABC, CBS and NBC affiliates all have one sub each which is a news/traffic/weather loop. Fox has no subs.

 

[w9wi]

It may be due to the networks prohibiting subs. In Phoenix the ABC, CBS and NBC affiliates all have one sub each which is a news/traffic/weather loop. Fox has no subs.

I know of no network prohibition on subchannels. Indeed, I think you can reasonably assume the FCC would find such a prohibition contrary to the regulations. (for giving the network control over what other programs their affiliates may air)

Stations *owned* by Fox have no subs (is this still true?) -- Fox, the company, can legally control what programs TV stations they own may air -- but they can't control what affiliates owned by others may air.

 

[discjockeyjohn64]

The networks don't tell local affiliates what to run on their digital subchannels. There are areas in the country that run an ABC for example on DT-1 and NBC on DT-2. In Seattle, where I now reside after years of living in Tucson, we have over 22 subchannels as you are referring to them as.

Our ABC affliate runs THIS TV. Our NBC affiliate runs UNIVERSAL SPORTS. Our CBS affiliate runs RTV (RETRO TV). Our PBS affiliate runs V-ME and CREATE (2 subchannels). Our FOX affiliate runs 24/7 Accuweather/Local Weather Channel.
Our MY NETWORK affiliate runs ANTENNA TV. Our ION affiliate runs QUBO and ION LIFE. Our TBN affiliate runs THE CHURCH CHANNEL, JCTV, TBN ENLACE, and SMILE OF A CHILD (4 subchannels).

We have several other channels (independents) that run 3-4 subchannels, some with different foreign language programming (Korean, Chinese, Spanish, etc.)

It really is up to the local affiliate to choose to broadcast multiple subchannels and there are a lot of new networks that are aiming to get that space. As an example, the forementioned above, and COOL TV, BOUNCE, PBJ (Family/Children), ME-TV (Viacom/CBS library 50s-80s programming), the upcoming .2 NETWORK from Sony. You can view articles on most of these subchannels on Wikipedia.

 

[landtuna]

In Seattle, where I now reside after years of living in Tucson, we have over 22 subchannels as you are referring to them as.

The OP asked why network affiliates didn't have subs. That would mean there would be only four possibilities if ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox were considered the 'major' networks. Indies don't count.

For whatever reason the network affiliates here don't want sub programming potentially taking away from their main signals so they run weather/traffic loops. And the local Fox O&O does not want any subs at all.

 

[hotdogsrule]

Pretty much all of the local network affiliates have 'sub channels'. You must not know how to operate your DTV box.

For example, KGUN has Cool TV and LATV (Spanish language), CW (KWBA) has Mexicanal, Fox 11 has a classic movie channel, even PBS has multiple sub channels.

They run on both the over the air DTV sub channels as well as many of the sub channels are carried on local cable in their digital tiers.

 

[landtuna]

Pretty much all of the local network affiliates have 'sub channels'. You must not know how to operate your DTV box.

I was answering the OP from a Phoenix perspective as none of our affiliates have anything but weather/traffic subs or nothing at all. I don't live in Tucson so I assumed the OP was being accurate.

And yes, I know how to operate my DTV boxes just fine thank you.

 

[ShowLow]

Pretty much all of the local network affiliates have 'sub channels'. You must not know how to operate your DTV box.

I was answering the OP from a Phoenix perspective as none of our affiliates have anything but weather/traffic subs or nothing at all. I don't live in Tucson so I assumed the OP was being accurate.

And yes, I know how to operate my DTV boxes just fine thank you.

13.3 is blank. Kvoa has a weather/news channel on cable but they don't offer it on DTV. From what little I know of DTV each channel can use up to SIX sub- channels. Pretty clear in Tucson all the space the FCC has granted the stations is not being used. I guess my issue is the DTV promise is just not being realized IMO, at least not in Tucson. btw sorry for posting this subject on a radio board, but closest media I could find.

 

[Ultimajock]

KGUN has...LATV (Spanish language), CW (KWBA) has Mexicanal

...unless they've changed in the last couple of days (since I watched LATV's two-hour block of CMLL Wrestling on Saturday), you have the channels confused. It's KGUN that has Mexicanal and KWBA that has LATV. Interestingly, both KGUN and KWBA are owned by Journal, which has made a filthy name for itself in the Latino community here through the racist rants of Jon LoGiudice over their KQTH radio signal, so I have to wonder exactly how popular LATV and Mexicanal actually are here when compared to KUDF-LP/14 (Azteca America), KFTU-CA/34 (Telefutura), KHRR/v40 (Telemundo) and KUVE-DT/46 (Univision)...

 

[dhett]

Only KVOA (NBC) and KHRR (Telemundo) fail to make use of secondary subchannels. KUAT (PBS) has V-Me and Create, KGUN (ABC) has Mexicanal and The Cool TV, KMSB (Fox) has RTV, and KOLD (CBS) runs a news loop. KTTU (MyNet) has Estrella TV, KUAS (PBS) has kids' programming and World, KUVE (Univision) has the Telefutura station KFTU, and KWBA has LATV.

So that's 10 stations, 10 primary subchannels (.1's are subchannels too) and 11 secondary subchannels. What is different about Tucson than many other markets (including Phoenix) is that most of the LPTV stations only serve as repeaters of full-power or other low-power stations, so there are very few LPTV stations that offer independent programming, and all are either Spanish (KUDF [Azteca] and KTFU [Telefutura]), religious (KPCE [Daystar] and K57BD [TBN - now silent]), or shopping (K21CX [HSN] and KWTA [JTV - now silent])

 

[w9wi]

Pretty clear in Tucson all the space the FCC has granted the stations is not being used. I guess my issue is the DTV promise is just not being realized IMO, at least not in Tucson.

- A DTV station *must* transmit 19.2MBps of data if that signal is to decode at the receiver. 19.2MB turns out to not be enough to transmit even a standard-definition program -- let alone HD -- without compression. The more programs you transmit, and/or the higher definition each program, the more you must compress it to fit.

So transmitting a SD signal, and/or not transmitting any subchannels, doesn't really leave part of your 19.2MB unused. It actually means better picture quality on the program(s) you do transmit.

(some stations compress aggressively *without* transmitting multiple programs, which truly can be wasteful. You have to fill out the 19.2MB with *something*, and some stations fill with null packets which are completely ignored by the receiver...)

From what little I know of DTV each channel can use up to SIX sub- channels.

The number of programs transmitted over a single DTV transmitter is limited only by the number of digits allowed in the minor channel number. (I thought that number was 2 but I'm now aware of a LPTV station in California with three-digit minor channel numbers) The more you compress, the more subs you can fit in. Some stations carry audio-only programs which use MUCH less bandwidth than moving video. I know of another station whose "radio" subchannels do have video -- but it's a stationary slide (with information about the (classical/jazz) selection on the air -- which compresses VERY well.

I know of stations with at least a dozen programs on a single frequency. I suspect they're VERY ugly but the nature of the programming is such that viewers probably have no other choice.

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I'd imagine most stations' reason for not running subchannels is non-technical. There are obvious expenses -- for additional video/audio control gear, MPEG encoders, more storage in the video server, graphics "branding" gear, etc.. There are also non-obvious expenses -- purchase of programming, licensing of additional channels of automation control, EAS gear, E/I educational programming for children (yes, it's mandated to air on subchannels).

Many of these aren't on cable. Most of those that are are out in the middle of nowhere in the upper ranges of the digital cable spectrum. I suppose some stations are making money on subchannels but I don't see it as a slam dunk sure thing.