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Why Kill Success? WPEN back to Standards.

K

kevinsealy

It has been over a year that Greater Media dropped Pop Standards at WPEN 950AM in favor of Rock 'N' Roll Oldies.

Eventhough I live in Southeast Queens, NYC, I've picked up WPEN from time to time and found this was the only station I could hear Standards at night. NYC does not have a fulltime station playing the music of Sinatra and Ella.

Since the switch from Standards to Oldies, WPEN has lost nearly 40% of their audience and the station showed no sign of improvement.

Because of no growth, Oldies was dropped in favor of Sports talk. Although it's way to early to judge this format, under the first month of Sport Talk for WPEN the station had a down tick in the first month of the fall trend.

Doesn't radio management know that when you have a station with successful rating, why change it? Look what Infinity has done with WCBS-FM in New York. Their ratings are less than half of what they were as an Oldies station.



Thanks,<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin L. Sealy</P>
 
> It has been over a year that Greater Media dropped Pop
> Standards at WPEN 950AM in favor of Rock 'N' Roll Oldies.
>
> Eventhough I live in Southeast Queens, NYC, I've picked up
> WPEN from time to time and found this was the only station I
> could hear Standards at night. NYC does not have a fulltime
> station playing the music of Sinatra and Ella.

Try 740 AM from Toronto at night, if you don't have a local that interferes with it. On the web, daytimes, try www.wrdv.org. It's non-commercial, all-volunteer, and all big band from 8 to 6 weekdays. I'm on Fridays.

Bill
 
What's Success?

Money pays the bills, not ratings. Advertisers are not interested in buying the audience that listens to Standards or Oldies.

Standards WPEN had some listeners and few advertisers. Oldies WPEN had few listeners and fewer advertisers. Neither was a success by any business criterion.

How many times do we have to go over this?

Radio is a business. Dollars and cents; profit and loss. Revenue comes from advertising sales.

Get XM Radio or Sirius.
 
> > It has been over a year that Greater Media dropped Pop
> > Standards at WPEN 950AM in favor of Rock 'N' Roll Oldies.
> >
> > Eventhough I live in Southeast Queens, NYC, I've picked up
>
> > WPEN from time to time and found this was the only station
> I
> > could hear Standards at night. NYC does not have a
> fulltime
> > station playing the music of Sinatra and Ella.
>
> Try 740 AM from Toronto at night, if you don't have a
> local that interferes with it. On the web, daytimes, try
> www.wrdv.org. It's non-commercial, all-volunteer, and all
> big band from 8 to 6 weekdays. I'm on Fridays.
>
> Bill
>


Bill Jacobs at WRDV:

Over a month ago I've picked up this station. But at other times they play religious music.


Thanks,<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin L. Sealy</P>
 
The MAIN problem with WPEN going back to "Music For The End Of Your Life" is the realization that since the format flip to Oldies over a year ago...another 10 to 15% of their potential audience has either already bought the farm OR has one foot in the grave and the other foot on a banana peel.
 
WPEN could still do music IF...

A format that might pull in both a younger listener 45+ and more spots is the ABC radio "Unforgetable Favorites". It would mean the station would be on the bird, but that seems to be a reality for many of today's AM stations and maybe it's time for WPEN to do the same. My guess is this would be far less expensive than having live on air talent, especially in a major market like Philly where unions rule the pay scale, etc. Maybe if the format proved to be popular enough ratings wise and spot wise, they could eventually go live for AM & PM drive. This format, according to ABC radio's web site, pulls in the 45+ audience which is far better than what most AM stations are pulling in age wise. This apparently pulls in a younger demo than the WW1 nostalgia format that AM1290 (Wilmington) was using a couple of years ago.
 
That's a real arrogant reply.

> The MAIN problem with WPEN going back to "Music For The End
> Of Your Life" is the realization that since the format flip
> to Oldies over a year ago...another 10 to 15% of their
> potential audience has either already bought the farm OR has
> one foot in the grave and the other foot on a banana peel.
>
 
Re: What's Success?

> Money pays the bills, not ratings. Advertisers are not
> interested in buying the audience that listens to Standards
> or Oldies.
>
> Standards WPEN had some listeners and few advertisers.
> Oldies WPEN had few listeners and fewer advertisers.
> Neither was a success by any business criterion.
>
> How many times do we have to go over this?
>
> Radio is a business. Dollars and cents; profit and loss.
> Revenue comes from advertising sales.
>
> Get XM Radio or Sirius.
>
OK, I do have to say being in radio for many years, that you are correct that advertising dollars DO dictate what happens at any station. Few Listeners, Few Dollars, Format Change. Thats the rule of the jungle. But, as a side note, there are ALOT of new studies that are putting the key advertising demo at the 50 plus market as they seem to be the only generation who saved any money, and now they are spending it. I dont see Pepsi, McD's, and Bud dumping the coveted 18-54 demo, but there is a real interest in the 50 plus crowd, mainly BECAUSE they WERE the 18-54 demo for so many years. There could be a real resurgance of Standards/Oldies type format in the coming years. Who knows, but as you know, in this business, anything is possible.
 
Except for Sunday mornings, WRDV plays no religious music. We used to rebroadcast Christian contemporary WBYO, Sellersville overnights, but do not currently do so.

Bill
 
Deciding to decide

I've seen some of those articles, too. But I've been hearing the same kinds of arguements made for years. The difference now is those arguements are being applied to leading-edge baby boomers. Much of it sounds like wishful thinking.

Even if baby boomers change what has been the 55+ consumer lifestyle pattern, that won't help Adult Standards much. AS is not their music.

The question is, if consumer behavior changes in the current and future 55+ demographic segment - will those changes provide an opportunity for marketing to those consumer - and will product managers and media buyers believe it.

What makes me wonder about the Oldies audience as a target market is they seem to be bemoaning the "loss" of Oldies on the radio but are not using all that disposible income to sign up for satellite radio. It's not about whether they have they money - or even about their willingness to spend money - it's about their willingness to try something new or different. Advertising to somebody who is satisfied with (or resigned to) what they are doing now is not worth the money it costs. In any purchase decision, what comes first is deciding to decide. Mostly, 55+ people are slow to enter the decision process.
 
Re: Deciding to decide

> I've seen some of those articles, too. But I've been
> hearing the same kinds of arguements made for years. The
> difference now is those arguements are being applied to
> leading-edge baby boomers. Much of it sounds like wishful
> thinking.
>
> Even if baby boomers change what has been the 55+ consumer
> lifestyle pattern, that won't help Adult Standards much. AS
> is not their music.
>
> The question is, if consumer behavior changes in the current
> and future 55+ demographic segment - will those changes
> provide an opportunity for marketing to those consumer - and
> will product managers and media buyers believe it.
>
> What makes me wonder about the Oldies audience as a target
> market is they seem to be bemoaning the "loss" of Oldies on
> the radio but are not using all that disposible income to
> sign up for satellite radio. It's not about whether they
> have they money - or even about their willingness to spend
> money - it's about their willingness to try something new or
> different. Advertising to somebody who is satisfied with
> (or resigned to) what they are doing now is not worth the
> money it costs. In any purchase decision, what comes first
> is deciding to decide. Mostly, 55+ people are slow to enter
> the decision process.
>

You hit it right on the button. These people who constantly complain about older programming eroding, are the last group of people to spend money that would advance or change for the better.
They live in the past. I met people several years ago who sware on the their VCR's that they are hesistant to switch to a DVD player because they think that VCR's quality is better. And they haven't looked or researched a DVD player.
And ran into people who still live the 2 channel audio quality over surround sound. And I ran into vinyl customers or owners who tell me not to say the word "CD" giving me a hint that they will throw me out of the store.
And I'm sure there's an audience that still takes and developes pictures with the flash, or throwaway bulb. Mention digital and you'll get a negative reaction.
I can imagine that why would Budweiser advertise on these staions, if the audience 55 + are still drinking or searching for Peels, or Ballantine beer.
Those 2 latter brands I mentioned....I believe are no longer on the market.
 
Re: Deciding to decide

> They live in the past. I met people several years ago who
> sware on the their VCR's that they are hesistant to switch
> to a DVD player because they think that VCR's quality is
Being 68 didn't stop my mother from investing temporarily in a VHS/DVD-in-one recorder. But when neither she nor my stepfather nor I could master the remote (It was so d*mn complicated) she exchanged it for a new VHS-only recorder (yes they still make those).

ixnay
 
Re: Deciding to decide

> > They live in the past. I met people several years ago who
> > sware on the their VCR's that they are hesistant to switch
>
> > to a DVD player because they think that VCR's quality is
> Being 68 didn't stop my mother from investing temporarily in
> a VHS/DVD-in-one recorder. But when neither she nor my
> stepfather nor I could master the remote (It was so d*mn
> complicated) she exchanged it for a new VHS-only recorder
> (yes they still make those).
>
> ixnay
>


So what's the point.
 
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