Why Love fm's ratings are down

[sfradio]

What is with the random 80's and 90's rock that is being played? atlantis morissette and hootie and the blowfish come to mind. how is this stuff "feel good" music?

 

[pbf1]

What is with the random 80's and 90's rock that is being played? atlantis morissette and hootie and the blowfish come to mind. how is this stuff "feel good" music?

Alanis (not "Atlantis") and Hootie weren't played before last week. (We don't HAVE ratings from last week yet. Might need to place blame elsewhere.)

 

[JustinT]

I haven't been able to figure out that the point (hey, wasn't that one of 100.3's old names) of this station is since they dropped the R&B-heavy AC that they started out with. There hasn't seemed to be any consistency for at least the last 6 months. When ever I tune in, they seem to be playing rather burnt-out 70's and 80's hits, with no real rhythmic lean - with trainwreck segues that have to leave a lot of listeners hitting the seek button. And judging by the ratings that's probably the case.

I didn't know about this change but after looking at the recently played songs list it looks a lot worse... "Hold Me" by Fleetwood Mac... "The Longest Time" by Billy Joel... these songs shouldn't even be considered with the "Feel Good" slogan. It looks like they're trying to compete somehow against co-owned WTMX, WJMK, WLIT, and WCFS, but really aren't offering anything unique... just a bad mix of all four.

Given Bonneville's recent pushes for news/talk formats, how much longer until something gives at 100.3? I hear Garry Meier's available.

 

[sfradio]

yeah they play worse trainwrecks then jack fm

 

[radiotower40]

I would have to say the biggest problem I see at the current time is the name "LOVE FM", this moniker has not fit with the station in
quite some time. When they were a love song station it fit and they seemed to be building an audience off of WNUA, WVAZ and WLIT,
and then out of no where the station seemed to switch from a urban leaning soft/ac to a rythmic "feel good" disco station. When that
started to resonate somewhat with the listeners then once again the music was tweaked again to add a lot more 80's music. I have
not listened in the last week or so and now to see you saying they are tweaking the music again? I thought when they brought Brian
in that they were going to go more towards an 80's some 70's type of "retro B96 GCI" type station. I thought some of the mixing Brian
was doing last month was good and I felt as if they were slowly morphing into the old B96 dance parties I remember from the early
90's.

I can tell why the ratings are down and it is like I basically said above the lack of consistency. There is another thread on the Chicago
board about 94.7 that relates a lot to this thread. Some will say it's a "cursed signal" I think it is bad management combined with lack
of ratings and lack of patience to let a format mature. I think if they don't straighten it out soon their going to have to scrap it and start
with something completely different. The sad thing is(and this is not the first time I've said this)I was kinda starting to like the station.

 

[JustinT]

I can tell why the ratings are down and it is like I basically said above the lack of consistency. There is another thread on the Chicago
board about 94.7 that relates a lot to this thread. Some will say it's a "cursed signal" I think it is bad management combined with lack
of ratings and lack of patience to let a format mature. I think if they don't straighten it out soon their going to have to scrap it and start
with something completely different. The sad thing is(and this is not the first time I've said this)I was kinda starting to like the station.

For the horrible name, logo, and slogan, it's bad management. But on the other hand, 100.3 will never become a top AC-based station under Bonneville because of WTMX, and that might be a good idea even if it produces awful radio. It seems as if Bonneville is almost using WILV as a shield to protect WTMX, ensuring that Mix P1s will have Love FM as a P2 instead of going to Fresh or WLIT, even if every other song makes the listener flip back to The Mix. But it's undeniably protecting WTMX that prevented "100.3 WNND", the incarnation right before WILV, from succeeding, and it's got to be having a role in this as well.

Back when Windy 100.3 signed on, AC and Hot AC were fairly distinct. Today, so many songs appear on multiple stations - with a good amount of overlap between The Mix, Fresh, Love, and the Lite, there's no way the market can support all four. It's pretty obvious which one is the weakest of the pack.

 

[radiotower40]

I can tell why the ratings are down and it is like I basically said above the lack of consistency. There is another thread on the Chicago
board about 94.7 that relates a lot to this thread. Some will say it's a "cursed signal" I think it is bad management combined with lack
of ratings and lack of patience to let a format mature. I think if they don't straighten it out soon their going to have to scrap it and start
with something completely different. The sad thing is(and this is not the first time I've said this)I was kinda starting to like the station.

For the horrible name, logo, and slogan, it's bad management. But on the other hand, 100.3 will never become a top AC-based station under Bonneville because of WTMX, and that might be a good idea even if it produces awful radio. It seems as if Bonneville is almost using WILV as a shield to protect WTMX, ensuring that Mix P1s will have Love FM as a P2 instead of going to Fresh or WLIT, even if every other song makes the listener flip back to The Mix. But it's undeniably protecting WTMX that prevented "100.3 WNND", the incarnation right before WILV, from succeeding, and it's got to be having a role in this as well.

Back when Windy 100.3 signed on, AC and Hot AC were fairly distinct. Today, so many songs appear on multiple stations - with a good amount of overlap between The Mix, Fresh, Love, and the Lite, there's no way the market can support all four. It's pretty obvious which one is the weakest of the pack.

I think you are on target with the theory that this station is purposely being set up as a backup to WTMX. The fact that their
other properties seem to be well run and managed properly in Chicago lends more credence to your statement. I guess from their
business perspective to protect the crown jewel WTMX against their many competitor's is worth the loss on WILV, but in today's radio
market how long can they continue to do that?

 

[Damixah3]

Well If they played more Hot Urban AC they would do very well....better programming would help.....

 

[sfradio]

Well If they played more Hot Urban AC they would do very well....better programming would help.....

A better company would help too, bonneville is too conservative

 

[amfmhdst]

I don't think a Hot Urban AC would be the route to go heading into a PPM world. Expecially, with Urbans and Urban AC's not doing very well in the rating system. When the pre-currency came out in New York it raised a red flag and companies are staying away from Urban right now. However, Radio One's two Urban stations do well in Houston; but, Arbitron uses an address based recruiting system which is not done in any of the other markets due to cost.

 

[cmarryman]

Agree with you guys here.

The fact that Windy 100 was changed to Love FM in 2004 means something don't you think?

Plus, in 2000, Windy beet WLIT in the ratings. After 2002, it was WLIT who beet WNND for the top spot. in 2004, WLIT was the only station in the market and WILV was and still is not doing well.

Maybe a format change to country will be better to take on US99 WUSN for the Country market what do you think?

 

[Damixah3]

I don't think a Hot Urban AC would be the route to go heading into a PPM world.  Expecially, with Urbans and Urban AC's not doing very well in the rating system.  When the pre-currency came out in New York it raised a red flag and companies are staying away from Urban right now. However, Radio One's two Urban stations do well in Houston; but, Arbitron uses an address based recruiting system which is not done in any of the other markets due to cost.

One of the reasons Urbans & Urban AC's arent doing well with PPM is they are using the same basic blueprint from the 90's. If you are young you want to listen to "Rap/Hip Hop" (Urban)of you are Over 40 you want to listen "Gospel or Ballads" with Luther, Anita Baker, Marvin Gaye, & Barry White (Urban AC) in the forefront...The formats wasnt designed to grow with the upcoming generations that came after...it was a "Baby Boomer format"(Urban AC)...Urban was the kiddie format

60-70 year who was 42-52 in 1990 wont listen to the same music......there is a new 42-52 out there now...This is where tweaking your format comes in...and get the PPMs in the hands of those who are 42 & 52 NOW and program to them....

I-pods & Internet broadcast is killing the radio market...Do what the movie industry did in the 70s and 80s to compete with TV...Pull out the stops and give people something to listen to..... verses the same 30 predicable  records and radio gimmicks...

You want PPM to work? Get the PPM to the right people & and get a PD with some originality & knowledge of the market they reside.....

 

[amfmhdst]

Have you looked at Arbitron DDI for the PPM in Chicago. You'll notice the upper demo is fine it's the younger demo where it's more difficult. Arbitron does the sample and there's no input from Radio Stations. Ipods and the internet are other choices. Cable and Satellite TV didn't destroy free TV completely. I think more choices to listen to product is good.

I listened the other day to the Urban AC station and i did hear some current music. Therefore, they are growing with the audience; otherwise, they'd just stick to oldies.

The main reason some Urban and Urban AC stations are doing well in the PPM in some markets is because the sample for one is too small in some demos hurting the younger end Urban's and secondly i feel the diary system is flawed. Now we get true exposure being detected unlike the diary system where people were just voting for their favorite station whether or not they listened to them. The TSL in dairy method is predominently inaccurate. Also, we get accurate ratings detecting that people are listening to more different stations than previously shown in the diary method. Just because somebody does something original doesn't mean it will translate into ratings. It could be an original idea that will totally flop. Most recently, a station in the market tried having a morning show doing satire type skits and it flopped and they had a crew of at least 10 people.

 

[Damixah3]

Have you looked at Arbitron DDI for the PPM in Chicago. You'll notice the upper demo is fine it's the younger demo where it's more difficult. Arbitron does the sample and there's no input from Radio Stations. Ipods and the internet are other choices. Cable and Satellite TV didn't destroy free TV completely. I think more choices to listen to product is good.

I listened the other day to the Urban AC station and i did hear some current music. Therefore, they are growing with the audience; otherwise, they'd just stick to oldies.

The main reason some Urban and Urban AC stations are doing well in the PPM in some markets is because the sample for one is too small in some demos hurting the younger end Urban's and secondly i feel the diary system is flawed. Now we get true exposure being detected unlike the diary system where people were just voting for their favorite station whether or not they listened to them. The TSL in dairy method is predominently inaccurate. Also, we get accurate ratings detecting that people are listening to more different stations than previously shown in the diary method. Just because somebody does something original doesn't mean it will translate into ratings. It could be an original idea that will totally flop. Most recently, a station in the market tried having a morning show doing satire type skits and it flopped and they had a crew of at least 10 people.

PPM rollout was delayed 9 months in Chicago...this is month 3, If I recall correctly.......

 

[amfmhdst]

Pre-currency starts in June. Currency starts in Sept. People are already walking around with PPMs. But, Arbitron will not release anything until Pre-Currency. I had a typo in a previous statement .. The main reason some Urban and Urban Ac's are NOT doing well is because ..

 

[J.Sherman]

Have you looked at Arbitron DDI for the PPM in Chicago.  You'll notice the upper demo is fine it's the younger demo where it's more difficult.  Arbitron does the sample and there's no input from Radio Stations.  Ipods and the internet are other choices.  Cable and Satellite TV didn't destroy free TV completely.  I think more choices to listen to product is good. 

I listened the other day to the Urban AC station and i did hear some current music.  Therefore, they are growing with the audience; otherwise, they'd just stick to oldies. 

The main reason some Urban and Urban AC stations are doing well in the PPM in some markets is because the sample for one is too small in some demos hurting the younger end Urban's and secondly i feel the diary system is flawed.  Now we get true exposure being detected unlike the diary system where people were just voting for their favorite station whether or not they listened to them.  The TSL in dairy method is predominently inaccurate.  Also, we get accurate ratings detecting that people are listening to more different stations than previously shown in the diary method.  Just because somebody does something original doesn't mean it will translate into ratings. It could be an original idea that will totally flop.  Most recently, a station in the market tried having a morning show doing satire type skits and it flopped and they had a crew of at least 10 people.

I think what he is referring to is what songs are played.....As far as new songs I have noticed the new songs that have been added are gospel & new ballads...

A great example is Estelles "American Boy"-good song. Would work for folks who grew up on Disco/Uptempo Dance from 70s & 80s. would work in the late Afternoon and Evening Day parts where Hot AC's play uptempo songs....Maybe morning drive for the wake up shift......

The songs presently added lack energy and there is no balance for the demographic who grew up on dance music.... Needs more of a balance of uptempo songs.....

 

[bucwhyl]

Bonneville should have swapped this station, and threw in 104.1 in D.C. for Radio One's 100.3 in L.A.. Radio One would have brought real competition to WGCI.

 

[avtosalon]

I listened to WILV for a few hours at work today, and I certainly agree that the station has taken a turn for the worse.

Without notice, they cut way back on the disco and 70's R&B oldies, replacing it with over-played, boring, white, adult contemporary from the 80's and 90's. The station was doing something unique, and they advertised the former sound alot on television.

Was this change made because of Fresh? They should have left the station alone. I do applaud Bonneville however for having live/local DJ's 24/7, a rarity nowadays.

Separately, about a month ago WILV-HD2 flipped from Love Songs to 'Club Love', a continuous flow of disco and pop/rock remixes. In January the Love Songs HD2 station had a technical problem where the audio was broadcasting only in the right channel. Also, I noticed that the exact same Love Songs were played in the same sequence on different days.

 

[chgodave]

At least Love-FM has stopped copying WLIT on everything.

I'll toss out a theory on why they keep changing their music and approach. I think they sensed the burnout factor of playing the same disco and dance songs all the time. But I also think they realize that the attention span of younger listeners, like with television, has become so short that they keep changing to keep the station different. (I almost said fresh - but I don't mean the radio station called Fresh.) Play a bunch of songs over and over for a few weeks, then tweak and play some totally different songs for a while. Just like TV shows that come and go for a few weeks at a time.

Think about it. People add and remove songs from their Ipods, but keep some of the same ones. WKSC plays the same 10 songs over and over for a couple of weeks and then changes them with new ones.

So Love-FM has a way to recycle older music, not be tagged an "oldies" or "classic hits" station, and not burn out the audience with the same stuff month after month.

You'll laugh at this now, but they could be ahead of their time.................

 

[dxer720]

I live within range of both the Chicago & Milwaukee markets. I like love FM & the Milwaukee station WRIT 95.7) that sounds most like it. I find myself getting burned out on their same songs. There ARE more grat songs from the late 60s to the mid 80s than just these few. I'm enjoying Love FM's change. It does make me "feel good", but the "Love FM)'s got to go.