Why No Classic TV variety Shows

[Bob1370]

"I always thought it would be interesting to see what would happen if somehow the Johnny Carson Tonight shows could be repeated M-F @ 11:30pm. Alas, not enough of them exist to undertake such a plan."

Plenty of them exist from about 1967-68 to 1992, but those are the ones Johnny's heir are marketing quite effectively through DVD sales, and we won't see them broadcast for many years. The pre-1968 ones that NBC controlled, would be a goldmine for NBC today if they existed (they could even become a broadcast series again on one of NBC's cable channels, or run as a broadcast show on the main network every Sunday night, and sell a lucrative amount of advertising). But NBC stupidly erased them thinking they'd have little or no value. No way do they ever let them run at 11:30 on a weeknight even if they did exist, of course...that might draw audience away from Jay Leno now, or Jimmy Fallon when he takes over in another 5 or 6 years.

 

[onairb]

I'm not sure what year NBC stopped wiping out episodes of 'The Tonight Show'. While there are surviving episodes from the late '60s, and sketches/clips from those episodes were used on anniversary specials, complete episodes were still erased until sometime in the '70s. I've read conflicting reports that this practce changed either early in the decade(when the show moved to Burbank) or later (circa 1978-80, as NBC gave Johnny a new contract, and control of the show).
I've also read that NBC stopped wiping out its daytime programming when it fired Lin Bolen in '78, so perhaps they also started preserving all the late-night programming at that time?

 

[firepoint525]

We have the DVDs of the entire episodes of The Ed Sullivan Show on which the Beatles appeared. It is interesting to watch the Fab Four in context with everything else which went on in those episodes, but other than the Beatles themselves, it is actually kinda boring.

 

[Mario500]

"I always thought it would be interesting to see what would happen if somehow the Johnny Carson Tonight shows could be repeated M-F @ 11:30pm. Alas, not enough of them exist to undertake such a plan."

Plenty of them exist from about 1967-68 to 1992, but those are the ones Johnny's heir are marketing quite effectively through DVD sales, and we won't see them broadcast for many years. The pre-1968 ones that NBC controlled, would be a goldmine for NBC today if they existed (they could even become a broadcast series again on one of NBC's cable channels, or run as a broadcast show on the main network every Sunday night, and sell a lucrative amount of advertising). But NBC stupidly erased them thinking they'd have little or no value. No way do they ever let them run at 11:30 on a weeknight even if they did exist, of course...that might draw audience away from Jay Leno now, or Jimmy Fallon when he takes over in another 5 or 6 years.

I would not say what the folks at NBC did at the time was stupid. They could not conceive of those shows being valuable in the future and they could not conceive of home video technology such as VCRs and cable TV and satellite TV programming services. Unlike theatrical movies, variety shows based on guests and topical jokes made them less valuable to some of the folks at NBC.

 

[LKellerIII]

We have the DVDs of the entire episodes of The Ed Sullivan Show on which the Beatles appeared. It is interesting to watch the Fab Four in context with everything else which went on in those episodes, but other than the Beatles themselves, it is actually kinda boring.

Yeah - I was 12 when the Beatles appeared on Sullivan, which was must-see-TV for my parents in the 50s and 60s. Naturally, I watched when a hot rock group was on, and I liked the stand-up comics, but otherwise, I found The Ed Sullivan Show about as exciting as watching paint dry.

 

[bpatrick]

With the advantage of 20/20 hindsight, it's too bad ABC didn't
save Carson's "Who Do You Trust?". It might have had the same
sort of success Groucho's "You Bet Your Life" had in reruns. But
in 1962, who could have known that Carson would become an
institution?

Also, does anyone know that Davy Jones was on the same Sullivan
show (Feb. 9, 1964) where the Beatles made their first appearance?
He was part of the cast of "Oliver!" at the time. Suddenly, that one
show becomes a double collector's item.

 

[firepoint525]

No one has really said this yet, but I believe another factor in why such TV shows haven't seen the light of day (except in DVD sales) is that they were extremely "timely," in that they would be very "dated" to watch on TV now. Maybe that is the point with some of you. But I don't think that we will see Laugh In or Hee Haw on TV ever again.

 

[firepoint525]

Also, does anyone know that Davy Jones was on the same Sullivan
show (Feb. 9, 1964) where the Beatles made their first appearance?
He was part of the cast of "Oliver!" at the time. Suddenly, that one
show becomes a double collector's item.

I just pulled out my DVD in response to your question, and the answer is yes! (Just from reading the label; I haven't watched it again.) How did we ever miss that?

 

[Markieo]

But I don't think that we will see Laugh In or Hee Haw on TV ever again.

If you have RFD TV, last time I checked, they were running 1960's episodes of "Hee Haw" on Sunday nights.

"Laugh-In" on the other hand, last time it was on the air was in the 200's on the now defunct Trio channel. It has not aged well at all.

 

[LKellerIII]

"Laugh-In" on the other hand, last time it was on the air was in the 200's on the now defunct Trio channel. It has not aged well at all.

You mean to tell me, you don't use the phrases, "You bet your sweet bippy," "Look that up in your Funk and Wagnalls," or "Sock it to Me" in your everyday speech?

I still do. I can never figure out why nobody invites me to their parties anymore. ;D

 

[hubcity]

But NBC stupidly erased them thinking they'd have little or no value.

I would not say what the folks at NBC did at the time was stupid. They could not conceive of those shows being valuable in the future and they could not conceive of home video technology such as VCRs and cable TV and satellite TV programming services. Unlike theatrical movies, variety shows based on guests and topical jokes made them less valuable to some of the folks at NBC.

I think the business logic was even simpler than that: "Hey, we bought these $100 tapes *because* we could erase them and use them over!"

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

I regret forgetting who said it, but your explanation of intentions to "re-use" tapes was also offered by an insider of the Tonight Show. It was on a TV show; he was responding to the interviewer's question about why the old shows, especially Johnny Carson's, were not saved.

 

[Markxxx]

Don't forget storage costs. One 4tb drive takes up hardly any room and can store thousands of shows. Video cassettes were harder to store. Storing medium has been shrinking.

I knew of one guy that got a hold on a bunch of video cassettes from WHO-TV Des Moines.

Copyright also comes into play. For instance, there is no list of public domain shows. If you use something, it's up to the user to make sure it's in PD. And anyone can sue you claiming rights. Sure they may lose, but there's a cost to a legal defense.

For instance, those WHO-TV. Are they in PD? The guy I know got them because the director told him to toss the tapes and he didn't he kept them. Is it PD because the tapes were abandoned? He didn't get express permission to use them. So you have a situation where it could go either way and a judge would have to decide, if the issue came to a head.

As for YouTube, the USA has a safe harbor law. Sites like YouTube can't be sued as long as they comply with DMCA requests for a pull down of materials. In other words, things don't get pulled off of YouTube, unless the copyright holder requests it.

Since YouTube allows advertising on videos, sometimes the holder doesn't request a pull.

Copyright holders have automatic patrols to look for things. This is why some YouTube vids are slightly sped up or even put in backwards to fool the autobots.

Then you have different copyright laws. For instance, the song "Kookaburra Sits In The Old Gum Tree" is in copyright some places and not others. Most sites will simply disallow it all together to avoid issues.

This is why you can see "This video blocked in your country" notices on YouTube

 

[LKellerIII]

I regret forgetting who said it, but your explanation of intentions to "re-use" tapes was also offered by an insider of the Tonight Show. It was on a TV show; he was responding to the interviewer's question about why the old shows, especially Johnny Carson's, were not saved.

The reason is probably more mundane than that. The networks probably didn't realize the value of these old shows beyond the ubiquitous "anniversary" shows - nobody predicted their future monetary value as boxed-sets of VHS tapes or DVDs. So the old tapes were probably stored haphazardly by clerks, then tossed out by Facilities Maintenance staff trying to maximize space.

 

[ixnay]

You mean to tell me, you don't use the phrases, "You bet your sweet bippy," "Look that up in your Funk and Wagnalls," or "Sock it to Me" in your everyday speech?

It was probably a measure of Laugh-In's popularity in 1970 when BP (British Petroleum) first established a presence in the Philadelphia area, having bought the east coast assets of Sinclair Oil (including Sinclair's refinery in Trainer, PA*). Spots (animated, IIRC) for BP aired on Philly stations featuring a dialogue between two guys about BP, and one of them eventually says, "You bet your BP!" (The word "sweet" was omitted.) Verrry in-tereresting - but *not* stupid, IMO!

*That refinery recently shut down, after changing hands a couple more times in the ensuing decades.

ixnay
(a loyal 9-yo viewer of Laugh-In in 1970, and who in my preteens had a full Funk & Wagnalls encyclopedia set)

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

I regret forgetting who said it, but your explanation of intentions to "re-use" tapes was also offered by an insider of the Tonight Show. It was on a TV show; he was responding to the interviewer's question about why the old shows, especially Johnny Carson's, were not saved.

The reason is probably more mundane than that. The networks probably didn't realize the value of these old shows beyond the ubiquitous "anniversary" shows - nobody predicted their future monetary value as boxed-sets of VHS tapes or DVDs. So the old tapes were probably stored haphazardly by clerks, then tossed out by Facilities Maintenance staff trying to maximize space.

Your observation, along with Mark's, probably covers it. Forsight is something we gain from HINDsight. It can't be taught. We learn from our mistakes. These days, studios save everything.

 

[bpatrick]

In the early 1970s NBC was running out of space in a warehouse in
New Jersey where practically all its in-house programming from the
'50s and '60s had been stored. Nearly all of Berle's stuff, along with
Caesar's, Steve Allen's, Jack Paar's, and (most likely) Ernie Kovacs'
("Take A Good Look" was on ABC and you can still find episodes of that one),
along with numerous dramatic and musical offerings, were destroyed. One
employee, however, halted the destruction long enough to call John Guedel
and ask if he'd like a set of prints of "You Bet Your Life." NBC had destroyed
fifteen episodes; Guedel asked for the entire remainder, knowing there was
a Groucho cult that would watch the old comedy-quiz show again (or perhaps
for the first time, if they were born after 1961). With nostalgia on the rise at
the time, there might have been a whole new audience for Berle, Caesar, Allen,
Paar, and Kovacs ("Laugh-In," after all, owes a debt to Kovacs; one of his regulars,
Jolene Brand, married "Laugh-In" creator George Schlatter). We might also have
gotten to see Carson's first night as host of "The Tonight Show."

But again, hindsight is 20/20.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

But I don't think that we will see Laugh In or Hee Haw on TV ever again.

If you have RFD TV, last time I checked, they were running 1960's episodes of "Hee Haw" on Sunday nights.

RFD has indeed been running HEE HAW on Sunday evenings, and again on various days of the week. Trouble is, as entertaining as they are to watch, the episodes so far appear to be limited to showings from only the 1st 2-seasons. Also, last I heard, RFD is available only on Direct TV. Or has that changed?

 

[azumanga]

As for YouTube, the USA has a safe harbor law. Sites like YouTube can't be sued as long as they comply with DMCA requests for a pull down of materials. In other words, things don't get pulled off of YouTube, unless the copyright holder requests it.

Since YouTube allows advertising on videos, sometimes the holder doesn't request a pull.

Along the same token is videos for songs, which many of them have links for viewers to buy the song at amazon.com or iTunes. The media companies' policy in this case varies -- some will tolerate it as a form of advertising to get people to buy a copy; others still shun it.

Then you have different copyright laws. For instance, the song "Kookaburra Sits In The Old Gum Tree" is in copyright some places and not others. Most sites will simply disallow it all together to avoid issues.

This is why you can see "This video blocked in your country" notices on YouTube

Funny about that, I have seen some instances in which I've encountered such warnings for those who uploaded that video from the US, and I'm in the US trying to watch it, meaning that the video is blocked to users in the country of the uploader, which is crazy.

 

[azumanga]

last I heard, RFD is available only on Direct TV. Or has that changed?

Last I know, it's still available on Dish Network, FTA satellite, and selected cable systems (mainly in rural parts of the country, though Verizon Fios offers it to everyone).