Why no ratings???

[Nu_Roo_2]

I was wondering where the Columbus Summer Phase I trend was, and was shocked to see that this market has been put on the embargoed list, with no one but subscribers permitted to see the ratings.  Does anyone know why??  Once this is done, it seems to stick a looooong time -- been a whole year now in Dayton. 

I know Cleveland was embargoed at one time.  Does anyone recall how long?  OhioMediaWatch?

This is the first time in my (more years than I care to mention) of tracking Columbus ratings that they have been withheld.  And while most markets are still released, there suddenly seems to be more embargoes than ever before, mostly in the 30-60 range:  Not only Columbus, but similarly-sized Milwaukee, Indianapolis and Norfolk,  Plus Salt Lake, Puerto Rico, Greensboro, Louisville and of course Dayton. 

This change sure gives us a lot less to talk about here, especially after changes are made (even if we had to make some guesses about demos). How will those without inside connections know if, say, football season really does prop up 97.1?

Rats! Uh oh, I'm already feeling withdrawal symptoms...

 

[willcail]

The only ratings I saw was an ad in this week The Other Paper for 99.7fm. 99.7 rated number one between 18-44 mens.

 

[gabigley1]

I was wondering where the Columbus Summer Phase I trend was, and was shocked to see that this market has been put on the embargoed list, with no one but subscribers permitted to see the ratings. Does anyone know why?? Once this is done, it seems to stick a looooong time -- been a whole year now in Dayton.

Dose this also apply to the 12+ numbers we see in the Columbus Dispatch?

Also, why are some markets placed on the embargoed list on the first place? This is a real shocker because this is the first I've heard of the embargoed list.

 

[xmusicmatt]

I was wondering where the Columbus Summer Phase I trend was, and was shocked to see that this market has been put on the embargoed list, with no one but subscribers permitted to see the ratings. Does anyone know why?? Once this is done, it seems to stick a looooong time -- been a whole year now in Dayton.

Dose this also apply to the 12+ numbers we see in the Columbus Dispatch?

Also, why are some markets placed on the embargoed list on the first place? This is a real shocker because this is the first I've heard of the embargoed list.

My understanding is markets are usually placed on embargoed list when someone in the market is using the numbers for sales purposes etc and didnt pay for access to the book.

There might be other reasons too.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Dose this also apply to the 12+ numbers we see in the Columbus Dispatch?

Yes, it does.  Subscribers are still free to share the ratings with advertising prospects of course, and I believe to continue pointing out selected numbers in public advertising, as per willcail's 99.7 example.

 

[techie2]

I think Dayton is embargoed because Mainline quit subscribing.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

I think Dayton is embargoed because Mainline quit subscribing.

That sounds familiar now that you mention it. And perhaps could explain Louisville, too, given Mailnine's presence there.

But wouldn't that apply only if Arbitron thought Mainline sales was making unauthorized use of the numbers? It's been awhile, but I remember back when some big-stick Columbus stations like SNY didn't even subscribe, yet there was no embargo.

Also, I wonder why there are some markets that have a lesser kind of restriction, namely where the 12+ is still publicly released, but with non-subscribers' ratings left out.

 

[alans613]

Main Line doesn't subscribe to Arbitron but they do subscribe to another service but I can't remember what it is called(Neilsen?)...I know it's a newer service that they think gives better info about their demos. That's the only reason I have ever known of as to why Dayton was embargoed. It sucks too because as a Fly 92.9 fan I only get to see their ratings twice a year usually. Columbus? I have no idea.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Main Line doesn't subscribe to Arbitron but they do subscribe to another service but I can't remember what it is called(Neilsen?)...I know it's a newer service that they think gives better info about their demos.  That's the only reason I have ever known of as to why Dayton was embargoed.  It sucks too because as a Fly 92.9 fan I only get to see their ratings twice a year usually.  Columbus?  I have no idea. 

Whoa, am I getting confused.  On Arbitron's available-to-anyone site, it shows only quarterlies (for any market).  And for Dayton they do include WGTZ, but the latest ratings shown for that market are Summer 2008 instead of Summer 2009.

On Radio-Info it says Dayton's ratings are withheld from publication, but unlike Arbitron they DO show the Fall 2008 and Spring 2009 quarterlies (no Winter 2009) -- but WGTZ is exlcuded from the list for all periods.

At least these inconsistencies provide hope we'll see something for Columbus before too awful long, say when the next quarterly comes around -- even if it's an incomplete list.  OTOH I'm not overly optimistic, based on what I recall from the Cleveland embargo, where everything was witheld from publication for quite awhile. 

Do they honestly think Mainline, or other "offenders" -- or anybody, for that matter -- are not going to be able to dig up the 12+'s somehow if they really want to?  It's a joke, especially when you're just talking the "beauty contest" numbers.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

I know Cleveland was embargoed at one time. Does anyone recall how long? OhioMediaWatch?

I'd have to check, but I believe Cleveland was embargoed for at least a year and change.

Since almost all the market's stations are owned by major operators that probably subscribe to the book...

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

I know Cleveland was embargoed at one time. Does anyone recall how long? OhioMediaWatch?

I'd have to check, but I believe Cleveland was embargoed for at least a year and change.

Since almost all the market's stations are owned by major operators that probably subscribe to the book...

Thanks. A year or two ago, when I was involved in the TV-focused Project Apollo pilot with Arbitron, I may have been able to get some info. But my contacts have all left since then.

 

[alans613]

I can't recall the last time Arbitron let out the Main Line/Dayton numbers, but I DO remember seeing it on the now-defunct radioandrecords.com. Also, all the other Dayton stations are listed but the ML properties. Wanted to clear that up.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Got it. Thanks.

Fyi, I just remembered that a few years ago Arbitron decided to stop providing any numbers to the trades or news media. As I recall this was because some subscribers were complaining that they weren't getting to see the topline numbers at least somewhat earlier than non-subscribers. At that time, at least some of the trades got around that by simply having their contacts in the individual markets call in the numbers. Or maybe that's was the planned workaround but was never needed because Arbitron relented quickly...I forget.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

...there suddenly seems to be more embargoes than ever before, mostly in the 30-60 range:  Not only Columbus, but similarly-sized Milwaukee, Indianapolis and Norfolk,  Plus Salt Lake, Puerto Rico, Greensboro, Louisville and of course Dayton. 

Maybe this is just a coincidence, but...

Two of the similarly-sized (to Columbus) markets on that embargo list are Milwaukee and Norfolk. And in the interview with Ed Christian of WSNY owner Saga in Radio-Info's Radio Done Right supplement, Christian points out that Saga doesn't subscribe to Arbitron in Milwaukee or Norfolk -- but that they do subscribe in Columbus.

Is it possible Columbus's embargo is somehow related to what Saga is doing in its two other Top 50 markets?  Perhaps even an error where Columbus got "lumped in" inadvertently???  Probably not, but it does make me wonder...

I was hoping that Columbus might start getting released again with the latest trend, but that was last week and once again no numbers were published.

 

[jakej]

I'm not losing much sleep over it; I'm sure all the stinkeroos are still the stinkeroos. Actually, I'm kind of glad the embargo continues, as it's good for a laugh. Guys are predicting future ratings for particular stations under other topics of this board -- but we may never know any of those ratings ever again! Plus, I can turn my imagination loose and pretend that some of the stations in the, ahem, "lower ranks" pooled what little money they had left and bribed Arbitron to continue to keep things unpublished.
100th episode of "Yesterday's Top Secrets" aired last Thursday (thanks, Dispatch, for the article published on Sept. 13 about that), and our first anniversary show will be broadcast a week from this Friday. Used Kids Records recently committed to continuing its sponsorship at least through March 4, 2010, so life is good and I couldn't be happier -- even though Kevin Joy accurately describes my motivation in the Dispatch for doing "Secrets" as a "paycheck-free labor of love" (definitely true second-half and unfortunately true first-half!).

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Guys are predicting future ratings for particular stations under other topics of this board -- but we may never know any of those ratings ever again!

In most markets you can generally infer poor performance by a format change or major adjustment, but that's not as true here. While factors like a high ad power ratio -- e.g., as Sports often sees -- or a cluster-protection role can keep some ratings dogs alive even in normal radio markets, you can get super-doggy in Columbus and still survive (unfortunately).

Plus, I can turn my imagination loose and pretend that some of the stations in the, ahem, "lower ranks" pooled what little money they had left and bribed Arbitron to continue to keep things unpublished.

Interesting idea. Or maybe we can consult with Rush for advice on how to lay the blame on Obama.

100th episode of "Yesterday's Top Secrets" aired last Thursday (thanks, Dispatch, for the article published on Sept. 13 about that), and our first anniversary show will be broadcast a week from this Friday. Used Kids Records recently committed to continuing its sponsorship at least through March 4, 2010, so life is good and I couldn't be happier -- even though Kevin Joy accurately describes my motivation in the Dispatch for doing "Secrets" as a "paycheck-free labor of love" (definitely true second-half and unfortunately true first-half!).

CONGRATS!

 

[gabigley1]

There is hope the Columbus Dispatch will publish the quarterly rating once and if they get their hands on them.

 

[TANK1]

Market is won't show in the trades, since most of the companies have dropped Arbitron?