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Why People Leave Buffalo for Charlotte

Mike Sheridan said:
Our local NPR station WFAE is doing a series on why people leave Buffalo for Charlotte. You can read about it here and listen to the series:
http://www.wfae.org/wfae/1_218_323.cfm?action=display&id=4484
Click to expand...

I don't even have to listen to the report to tell you why people are leaving Buffalo.
There are virtually no manufacturing jobs left in Buffalo. The city is in financial trouble, and the weather sucks most of the year with lake-effect snow storms.
Meanwhile Charlotte has jobs, nice weather, and most important taxes are cheaper.
Buffalo has been for a number of years a dying city. There is nothing there to keep young people to stay while people about to retire want to live where they are not literately taxed into poverty.
 
VOR - we are usually in agreement on most subjects here on this board, but in this case I take some exception to what you say. There are of course, still many manufacturing jobs in Buffalo(but there should be a lot more). And I don't have the stats right in front of me, but I know I read in the last year or two that while not great, Buffalo's employment situation is actually a little brighter than that of Rochester. And with the nation now almost assured of falling into a deep recession, upstate New York is not alone in the dismal job outlook. That's not to excuse what happened to Buffalo, Rochester and so many other rustbelt towns over the last three decades - IMHO our rustbelt economic woes didn't have to happen('nuff said).

And, from my personal point of view, the weather is definitely not bad most of the year. Personally, February and March(and perhaps early April) are the only months I have a problem with - I like winter up to a point, but wish it would end a little earlier. Upstate NY (normally) has a pretty nice climate(for my tastes) from early to mid spring through mid to late autumn(our current situation not withstanding). I have nothing against Charlotte or any other southern city, but personally I cannot handle their hot, humid summer weather. Yes, upstate NY gets some scorcher periods in the summer, nothing like down south(or even the northeast atlantic seaboard for that matter).

I agree with you 100% that taxes are crazy, but that's mostly a New York state thing(again, 'nuff said).

I've lived in both Buffalo and Rochester and find them both to be great towns - each has it's own strong points. Buffalo is a great place for nightlife, particularly the performing arts. Many cities come not even close to Buffalo . And it's one of the most architecturally blessed towns in America:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/arts/design/16ouro.html?_r=1&ei=5070&emc=eta1&oref=slogin

We need more jobs and lower taxes. An invisible shield protecting us from the cold during the latter months of winter might be nice. Outside of that, nobody has anything on upstate NY - IMHO.
 
They run similar articles here in Rochester, except everyone exiting here either ends up in Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte, or freakin' Phoenix! I have friends who went to all three places. The retirees head to NC because their friends have gone there, the climate is at least comparable to Rochester with the harsh edges taken off (unless they get an ice storm), the cost of living is lower (for now), and the quality of life is generally about the same. There are plenty of tech jobs in the Research Triangle area, perhaps some that Kodak or Xerox might have had before.

As to Phoenix, who the hell knows. Phoenix is nothing like western NY. It's hot as hell, dry heat or not, Maricopa County has the crazy Sheriff "Green Bologna" Joe (a friend of mine actually went to jail for 48 hours for throwing a cell phone at someone during an argument - they have ZERO tolerance for any technology products thrown at others), and one of my other friends, who isn't politically correct shall we say, complains about "taco stands on every corner" and "ICE (immigration) raids at the malls on several occasions causing a stampede."

The one thing Phoenix does have that Rochester doesn't, to make Bob Smith happy, is a Spanish language radio station or two. :)

My theory on the exit strategy from western NY is part traditional complaints about cost of living and taxes and jobs and energy, but in many cases is also just because some of these people consider this area the next Flint, Michigan, and why be a part of a declining region when you can relocate to a more chipper and positive growth center and feel like a community in growth instead of decline. It can be psychological more than practical.

However, the other thing I've noticed from a lot of these people is:

a) they often move back.
b) their biggest lament is no Wegmans.
c) they complain about traffic, quality of local government service, and cultural differences.
d) the locals that live there complain more about their weather than we do about ours.

What little talk radio that is local is actually left tries to combat the stereotyping of lousy living in western NY, but you don't need a panel discussion to determine that both Buffalo and Rochester, and Syracuse for that matter, are regions in transition. That's uncomfortable for a lot of people.
 
I think this special proves how out of touch public radio is getting... The influx of people moving to charlotte was at it's greatest 10 years ago... These days people are moving to Pheonix... Las Vegas... etc... God this board is boring me... Same old stuff, we get it, people are moving... Living in Buffalo it's as natural as "The Bills lost 4 superbowls..." come on, we really need a special about this??? This is original, local programming??? ugh
 
Well, FWIW I moved here from Boston, but the sole reason I did it was because I had a job here and I didn't back in Boston (the company I was working for was fiscally imploding and had already cut my hours). Mind you, I didn't want to stay in Boston...too damned expensive and lousy weather pretty much year-round (either too damn hot or too damn cold) but I sure as hell didn't want to move to Rochester.

Now, having moved here, I've somewhat come around to Rochester. It's okay. I like how it's got a pretty decent arts scene (especially for a comparatively small city). I miss the hustle and bustle of a Top 10 city quite a bit, and the relatively high COL is disappointing. But I can deal. Gotta say, though...the Mexican food options are crap here, it's just no contest. The wine's nice, though. ;D
 
aaronread said:
Now, having moved here, I've somewhat come around to Rochester. It's okay. I like how it's got a pretty decent arts scene (especially for a comparatively small city). I miss the hustle and bustle of a Top 10 city quite a bit, and the relatively high COL is disappointing. But I can deal. Gotta say, though...the Mexican food options are crap here, it's just no contest. The wine's nice, though. ;D
Click to expand...

Seems like just yesterday that Aaron and I were standing in the parking lot of an ice-cream stand in the Boston suburbs as he was asking me what life is like in Rochester... "just in case this new job comes through," you know. :)

It's coming up on 12 years since I fled Boston to return home to Rochester, and I haven't regretted it. I'm able to live in a nice neighborhood that actually has some character to it, not to mention stores and restaurants within walking distance, great public schools and lots of culture - all at a cost that's a tiny fraction of what I'd spend to live in a cramped apartment in Boston - or a cookie-cutter tract home in Charlotte. I can be downtown in just over 10 minutes, and in NYC, Boston or Toronto in just a few hours.

The public radio's not bad here, either!

As for the Mexican food...have you tried Salena's at Village Gate yet, Aaron? If not, what are you up to this weekend....??
 
Mexican Standoff

Scott Fybush said:
As for the Mexican food...have you tried Salena's at Village Gate yet, Aaron? If not, what are you up to this weekend....??
Click to expand...

OK, everybody. Sounds like a meet. Saturday at 2, Scott's buying...
 
I didn't know Salena's accepted Tower Site Calendars as payment... ;D

Ahem, OK, meanwhile...

Here's a piece in the NY Times about Buffalo's architectural treasures. Having been to Charlotte a couple of times, I think it's safe to say I would be shocked if a comparable piece could be written about Mecklenburg County.

This link should work:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/arts/design/16ouro.html?scp=1&sq=Buffalo&st=cse
 
I like this board more than the rest, the postings are usually a cut above the others.

Some managed to misunderstand the intent of my post. As a proud former Buffaloian I just thought it was interesting that lots of us ended up in Charlotte. It was in no way intended as a cut down to WNY, no way!

The best thing Buffalo and WNY have going for it is the people. Friendly, hard working and unpretentious. Maybe the winter storms bring people together to help each other. Spring, summer and fall in the Niagara Frontier is a wonderful thing to see.

The layoffs of so many steel workers in the mid ‘70’s made life tough but I know many people who wouldn’t think of ever leaving. Some haven’t strayed very far from the street they grew up on.

I don’t get to visit as often as I’d like. However I still go back in my mind.

Mike “Sheridan” Miranda
 
Mike Sheridan said:
I don’t get to visit as often as I’d like. However I still go back in my mind.
Click to expand...

Isn't that a James Taylor song? "In my mind I'm goin' to Tonawanda...."
 
cee said:
VOR - we are usually in agreement on most subjects here on this board, but in this case I take some exception to what you say. There are of course, still many manufacturing jobs in Buffalo(but there should be a lot more). And I don't have the stats right in front of me, but I know I read in the last year or two that while not great, Buffalo's employment situation is actually a little brighter than that of Rochester. And with the nation now almost assured of falling into a deep recession, upstate New York is not alone in the dismal job outlook. That's not to excuse what happened to Buffalo, Rochester and so many other rustbelt towns over the last three decades - IMHO our rustbelt economic woes didn't have to happen('nuff said).

And, from my personal point of view, the weather is definitely not bad most of the year. Personally, February and March(and perhaps early April) are the only months I have a problem with - I like winter up to a point, but wish it would end a little earlier. Upstate NY (normally) has a pretty nice climate(for my tastes) from early to mid spring through mid to late autumn(our current situation not withstanding). I have nothing against Charlotte or any other southern city, but personally I cannot handle their hot, humid summer weather. Yes, upstate NY gets some scorcher periods in the summer, nothing like down south(or even the northeast atlantic seaboard for that matter).

I agree with you 100% that taxes are crazy, but that's mostly a New York state thing(again, 'nuff said).

I've lived in both Buffalo and Rochester and find them both to be great towns - each has it's own strong points. Buffalo is a great place for nightlife, particularly the performing arts. Many cities come not even close to Buffalo . And it's one of the most architecturally blessed towns in America:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/arts/design/16ouro.html?_r=1&ei=5070&emc=eta1&oref=slogin

We need more jobs and lower taxes. An invisible shield protecting us from the cold during the latter months of winter might be nice. Outside of that, nobody has anything on upstate NY - IMHO.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to "diss" Buffalo or its residents. But the truth is that the city itself is in dire financial straits. Isn't Buffalo's government under state oversight because it almost went bankrupt?
As for the weather, granted those of us who live in New York deal with the snow all the time. In fact I would rather deal with snow than hurricanes and earthquakes. On the other hand a lot of people are moving out of NY because of the lack of jobs, high taxes, and the weather.
Sure some people do come back from down south because they miss what NY has to offer; but not as many as people who are moving out of state.
 
If you moved to Charlotte now or in the past two years, you'd have missed the wave. Charlotte's banking sector, which was the underpinning of its economy, is taking a major hit. As banking weakens, so do construction and other sectors that depend on banking. And as we all know only too well, radio companies are executing staff cuts in all areas of the US. How many employees did CBS Charlotte axe a few weeks ago? Fourteen?

There's no Camelot anywhere in America these days. I love Buffalo and so many things about Western New York, but like the Bills and Sabres, they manage to exasperate me from time to time. And like everybody else, I curse the weather in February and long for week's solice in Tampa.

There are days when I think Buffalo is going to lead the nation in surviving this financial debacle because the people here are well-grounded and do not lead extravagent lives. And then, something or some issue will come up that makes me wish I'd moved to Raleigh-Durham 25 years ago. That lasts a few minutes and I come to my senses. There is no Camelot. The grass ISN'T greener on the other side of the street. You can't pay your mortgage with sunshine dollars. And with all due respect, while that Southern accent sounds charming when visiting friends below the Mason-Dixon line, I prefer a "Flat 'A'" over a "Y'all."

Besides, I've got football, hockey and baseball down pat. NASCAR Looks cool, but I can't figure out that point system and to me it's just a bunch of cars burnin' a whole lotta gas, goin' real fast, makin' a lotta left turns.

Know whutimean, Vern?

-JPB
 
I've spent a lot of time "on the road" in the US, and I've been in just about every part of the US for long enough to get a sense of what it's like to live there. I've yet to find anything better than upstate NY. Oh, sure, it may be cheaper in the south, and they may have some nice scenery in the west, and the people in the midwest are as hard-working as anyone, but the only place it all comes together is NY, at least IMHO. And I've yet to find anywhere that does roads better than NY. :)
 
SSSKub said:
I think this special proves how out of touch public radio is getting... The influx of people moving to charlotte was at it's greatest 10 years ago... These days people are moving to Pheonix... Las Vegas... etc... God this board is boring me... Same old stuff, we get it, people are moving... Living in Buffalo it's as natural as "The Bills lost 4 superbowls..." come on, we really need a special about this??? This is original, local programming??? ugh
Click to expand...

SSSKub, if you don't know the facts you're basing your opinions on, please keep them to yourselves. Did you actually go to the site to read the WFAE series? From your post, I don't think so. This was not a series about where Buffalonians are migrating. Indeed, more may be moving to Phoenix these days than to Charlotte. But this was a series based on an analysis this year that Buffalo has sent more people to Charlotte than any other city in America. Reporter Scott Graf wanted to find out why and spent two days here in October doing interviews. I met with him. His stories DO reflect the fact that the influx was taking place in the early 90s. And he talked with some people who have actually moved back to Buffalo from Charlotte after finding life there not to their liking. If this board is boring you, go somewhere else. I try not to be disrespectful on this board. But I will call you out when you make unjustified attacks on something you apparently know nothing about. Read Scott's three part series online and then get back to us with specific examples of how public radio is "out of touch."
 
As for the Mexican food...have you tried Salena's at Village Gate yet, Aaron? If not, what are you up to this weekend....??
Click to expand...

That's the best Rochester has to offer? I mean, Salena's is good, but it's no Anna's Taqueria or Sol Azteca (both in Brookline, MA). Guess I've been spoiled by the Latin renaissance that Boston went through over the last five years or so; there's been an explosion of incredibly good Mexican, Tapas and Brazilian food there. God I miss my beloved Anna's burritos...

Oh, and to answer your question...I'm probably going to get roped into engineering the 18,000 sports games WEOS/WHWS are broadcasting this weekend. Our blankety-blank HWSC teams are just too damn good. ::)
 
Mike Sheridan said:
Our local NPR station WFAE is doing a series on why people leave Buffalo for Charlotte. You can read about it here and listen to the series:

I moved to Buffalo in 1976 for a radio job, just in time for the Blizzard, and stayed until 1985 when I moved to San Diego...I loved Buffalo, many, many friends while we lived there. Lived in San Diego until this past February when we moved, this time for my wife's job, to Charlotte. It does get hot here in the summer, compared to SD and it does get cold here in the winter, compared to SD. The residents complain about traffic a lot, I don't get it, I guess I made to many trips to LA. A lot of folks from other places, Buffalo, Cleveland, and yes a bunch from LA and San Diego. So far I have found things to be quite nice here, still haven't sold the house in SD yet...the real estate market here compared to SD is like night and day. I think I'll go out tonight and find a Beef on Weck somewhere here in Charlotte.
Click to expand...
 
Mighty Mighty

aaronread said:
That's the best Rochester has to offer? I mean, Salena's is good, but it's no Anna's Taqueria or Sol Azteca (both in Brookline, MA). Guess I've been spoiled by the Latin renaissance that Boston went through over the last five years or so; there's been an explosion of incredibly good Mexican, Tapas and Brazilian food there. God I miss my beloved Anna's burritos...
Click to expand...

I'm confused. Are you trying to say that there's something Mexican beyond the menu at Mighty Taco?

BTW, I have noticed that there's a dearth of Portuguese fare compared to Fall River, MA...
 
aaronread said:
As for the Mexican food...have you tried Salena's at Village Gate yet, Aaron? If not, what are you up to this weekend....??
Click to expand...

That's the best Rochester has to offer? I mean, Salena's is good, but it's no Anna's Taqueria or Sol Azteca (both in Brookline, MA). Guess I've been spoiled by the Latin renaissance that Boston went through over the last five years or so; there's been an explosion of incredibly good Mexican, Tapas and Brazilian food there. God I miss my beloved Anna's burritos...
Click to expand...

Yeah, sadly, that's about the best we can offer in terms of sit-down. Now, if empanadas are your thing, there's a great stand that operates weekends at the Public Market. I think they just opened a weekday place in East Rochester, too, come to think of it.

And the migrant worker community in Wayne County has produced some surprisingly authentic places up around Sodus. Not what you'd find at Sol Azteca (mmmm, I miss the place, too), but worth the half-hour drive.

As for tapas, the new Piranha on Park Ave. is quite good.

But I guess this isn't radio-food-info.com, is it?
 
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