Why Radio Is Boring

[Silkie]

And he is going to hear Light My Fire. And he will be bored. Because he is really sick of that song.

During the '50s we had limited rock and roll music, because the songs had not yet come out. During the '60s we had more music with more coming out everyday. Music of the '50s became "oldies". During the '70s we had '50s and '60s oldies with new '70s tunes coming out every week. Of the thousands of records that were cut in the rock and roll era, I understand the frustration as a listener.

This is like Benny Goodman headlining Woodstock.

You might be surprised to know that had he shown up as a headliner Benny Goodman would have fit in. A few rock and roll acts have had entire symphony orchestras headlining with them. They are still big bands - no pun intended.

But then, I come from a generation of radio listener who remembers sneaking the transistor radio under my pillow to hear The Wolfman Jack show, complete with the dedications and affairs of people who had no idea who they were loving on. Beware the Gray Panthers. ;D

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Thank God for someone 'inventing' Internet streams!!
[/quote]

The $64 question is when is internet radio going to get in my car? This cannot happen fast enough!

The great potential of internet radio is everyone is back on an even playing field. That is, a market is not limited to 80 frequencies, most of which (significant signals) have been bought by corporate conglomerates and have been leveraged to the hilt, forcing management to reduce all possible costs, because the price and risk of the alternatived, innovation, is too high.

Internet is just the opposite. Since there are so many choices, the only way a stream can differentiate itself is by doing something better than everyone else. With lower operating costs, the risk/cost of innovation is much lower.

But all the discussion aside, the fact of the matter is when I and others have easy access to the multitude of stations and formats that the internet provides, it is going to be a permanent goodbye to the playlists designed for the lowest common denominator forced onto me because of an absence of real choice, which has already been well documented in this thread.

 

[radioresearcher]

Thank God for someone 'inventing' Internet streams!!

The $64 question is when is internet radio going to get in my car? This cannot happen fast enough!

The great potential of internet radio is everyone is back on an even playing field. That is, a market is not limited to 80 frequencies, most of which (significant signals) have been bought by corporate conglomerates and have been leveraged to the hilt, forcing management to reduce all possible costs, because the price and risk of the alternatived, innovation, is too high.

Internet is just the opposite. Since there are so many choices, the only way a stream can differentiate itself is by doing something better than everyone else. With lower operating costs, the risk/cost of innovation is much lower.

But all the discussion aside, the fact of the matter is when I and others have easy access to the multitude of stations and formats that the internet provides, it is going to be a permanent goodbye to the playlists designed for the lowest common denominator forced onto me because of an absence of real choice, which has already been well documented in this thread.
[/quote]

And if the digital rights people have their way, most Internet stations will no longer be able to stream music without paying a significant rights fee. That may put an end to them before they even gain a foothold.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio people means the people who actually make the decision to play the same songs for decades, and then scratch their heads when people listen less.

None of "us programmers" makes that kind of decision. The listeners do.

 

[oldies76]

None of "us programmers" makes that kind of decision. The listeners do.

The "listeners" do, because that's what they only hear..they have no other choices to make in testing sessions, because different songs are rarely presented. Basically, in testing, it the same old song.

Exactly why some stations are boring and repetitive.

Why don't you tune in to WCBS's 1981 countdown playing now and hear what a real classic hits station should sound like.

 

[davideduardo]

The "listeners" do, because that's what they only hear..they have no other choices to make in testing sessions, because different songs are rarely presented. Basically, in testing, it the same old song.

1. How many music tests have you attended?
2. How many planning meetings on tests have you taken part in?

I'll venture a guess: none.

Yet you pretend, and guess, how we do music testing.

And you are totally wrong.

Generally, we test a large number or songs we are not playing. Some are songs competitors play. Some are songs stations in the same format in comparable markets, which we know also test, play. Some are songs that tested in the past, but that stopped testing. And finally, we test songs we may not have tested before, but that are "growing into" our desired demographic.

Overall, over the years stations test many, many more songs than they play.

And you are totally wrong about the whole testing procedure.

 

[Bongwater]

There is one stone that is being left unturned in this discussion - the recording industry hasn't exactly been very helpful to radio in recent decades. There's a lot of performers and genres that frankly should have been mothballed years ago that the industry is still promoting.

New blood, new styles, and new concepts are needed, badly, but the RIAA seems to be stuck somewhere in the early 90s.

It used to be that young adults wanted something that they could call their own, and not something that they're sharing with older siblings, or even their parents.

My own generation of teens was lucky enough to get the British Invasion. We were damned if we were going to be Elvis-ites. That belonged to our older sibs.

Every decade seemed to have it's own look and style, which always seemed to be prompted by the pop culture of the times. Looking around the Hollywood environment, I'm seeing the same styles, the same look, and hearing the same types of music that I heard in the early 80s.

Trendsetting used to begin with the music industry. When it happened, pop culture would re-energize and re-invent itself. Radio would always benefit greatly when the changes occurred. Everybody won when new trends started.

Where is the trendsetting now? Where the hell is the music industry?

Radio hasn't had a massive earthshaker since the Nevermind album by Nirvana. Much of what's on the pop/rock charts (and you illustrated this perfectly) is regurgitated '90s schlock. Only safer and more predictable.

But it doesn't help that radio is still stuck in it's own time warp with the same basic formats since the '90s. (JACK isn't innovation.)

The playlist that started out this thread also illustrates why a LOT of people are bored with radio. How many times can you still hear these same songs day after day without suffering major burn-out? I'm 40 and these days, I can't stand any of these songs even though I grew up on ALL of them. I have a daughter who listens to CHR/Top 40 on the car with me and while some of today's pop music has some bright moments, the trouble is, it's too few and far in between

I find myself listening to newer independent music via college radio or the internet just to get away from these heard one, you heard 'em all stations on the radio these days.

The radio industry (as well as the record industry) these days has a simple formula - GET THE TEENYBOPPERS. Of course it's all RELEVANT. In the age of iPods and the internet, the kids today would rather get their music from some automated, pre-selected, NON-INTERACTIVE and non- visual (sans computer or text) source - WOULDN'T THEY?

Meanwhile, radio's TRUE core (the 30-70 year olds) are dealt with tight playlists of regurgitated "hits" that like I said. everyone is burnt out on. Now most of the radio personalities they remember are gone. And the kids couldn't care less who's playing the music on the radio. And somehow, radio is "bigger than ever", "the future is secure", "there's no need to panic, 3,000 sudden layoffs with more to come industry wide are just little growing pains", etc. according to industry optimists (usually those who can't remember anything about radio before 1996.)

And honestly don't care either....

(As for "music tests", WHO has the budget for that?)

 

[davideduardo]

Radio hasn't had a massive earthshaker since the Nevermind album by Nirvana. Much of what's on the pop/rock charts (and you illustrated this perfectly) is regurgitated '90s schlock. Only safer and more predictable.

Ah, now I get it. This is about rock. Not Hip Hop, not AC, not country, not regional Mexican, not Urban, etc. While rock is a significant group of formats, it's not all that radio is about. It's only a small part.

The radio industry (as well as the record industry) these days has a simple formula - GET THE TEENYBOPPERS.

No, it's not about the teenyboppers. Radio has little interest in sub-18-year-olds, as there essentially no advertising budgeted against this group for radio. While many will say that KIIS is a teen station, in fact, it is an 18-44 year old female station, and is an adult station, not a teen one.

Meanwhile, radio's TRUE core (the 30-70 year olds) are dealt with tight playlists of regurgitated "hits" that like I said. everyone is burnt out on.

Funny. When stations talk to their listeners, they want to hear the same big familiar songs they have always liked. It's rare to find a person who wants to hear less familiar, less favorite songs.

(As for "music tests", WHO has the budget for that?)

Lots of stations do.

 

[oldies76]

It's rare to find a person who wants to hear less familiar, less favorite songs.

Absolute nonsense...and seriously who are you fooling? Give us concrete evidence to your rediculous statement above.

 

[BossJock1947]

Here is a list of songs that are currently on K-Earth, KLOS, and JACK.

(And many of these are also on KOST and The Sound...)

America - Horse With No Name
America - Sister Goldenhair
America - Venutra Highway
AWB - Pick Up The Pieces
Beatles - Get Back
Beatles - Magical Mystery Tour
Beatles - Back In the USSR
Beatles - Let It Be
Beatles - Twist And Shout
Beatles - Revolution
Doobie Brothers - China Grove
Doobie Brothers - Black Water
Doobie Brothers - Long Train Running
Doors - Light My Fire
Doors - People Are Strange
Doors - Love Her Madly
Doors - Touch Me
Doors - Hello I Love You
Doors - Break on Through
Eagles - Take It Easy
Eagles - One Of These Nights
Eagles - Lyin’ Eyes
ELO - Livin’ Thing
ELO - Evil Woman
ELO - Sweet Talkin’ Woman
ELO - Don’t Bring Me Down
David Essex - Rock On
Fleetwood Mac - Dreams
Fleetwood Mac - Don’t Stop
Fleetwood Mac - Say You Love Me
Fleetwood Mac - Rhianon
Fleetwood Mac - Go Your Own Way
Fleetwood Mac - Gypsy
Fleetwood Mac - You Make Loving Fun
Free - All Right Now
Peter Frampton - Baby I Love Your Way
Peter Frampton - Show Me The Way
Marvin Gaye - Heard It Through The Grapevine
Grand Funk Railroad - We’re An American Band
Grand Funk Railroad - Some Kind Of Wonderful
Grand Funk Railroad - Locomotion
Jimi Hendrix - Purple Haze
Hollies - Long Cool Woman
Billy Joel - Piano Man
Billy Joel - Only the Good Die Young
Elton John - Crocodile Rock
Elton John - Bennie and the Jets
Elton John - Don’t Let The Sun Go Down On Me
Elton John - Saturday Night’s Alright For Fighting
Elton John - Tiny Dancer
Elton John - Philadelphia Freedom
John Lennon - Imagine
Huey Lewis - Do You Believe In Love
Kenny Loggins - Footloose
Los Lobos - La Bamba
Lynard Skynard - Sweet Home Alabama
Manfred Mann - Blinded By the Light
Don McLean - American Pie
Steve Miller - Jet Airliner
Steve Miller - Joker
Steve Miller - Rock N Me
Steve Miller - Take the Money and Run
Steve Miller - Jungle Love
Steve Miller - Abracadabra
Steve Miller - Swingtown
Eddie Money - Baby Hold On
Eddie Money - Two Tickets To Paradise
Van Morrison - Brown Eyed Girl
Stevie Nicks - Edge of Seventeen
Gerry Rafferty - Baker Street
Rolling Stones - Beast of Burden
Rolling Stones - Brown Sugar
Rolling Stones - Start Me Up
Rolling Stones - It’s Only Rock and Roll
Rolling Stones - Honky Tonk Women
Rolling Stones - Miss You
Rolling Stones - Satisfaction
Rolling Stones - Angie
Rolling Stones - Jumpin Jack Flash
Sanford / Townsend - Smoke From A Distant Fire
Santana - Evil Ways
Santana - Black Magic Woman
Santana - Smooth
Santana - Oye Como Va
Bob Seger - Old Time Rock and Roll
Bob Seger - Mainstreet
Bob Seger - Hollywood Nights
Steppenwolf - Born To Be Wild
Steppenwolf - Magic Carpet Ride
Stealers Wheel - Stuck In The Middle With You
Steely Dan - Reelin In the Years
Steely Dan - Do It Again
Steely Dan - Hey 19
Steely Dan - Rikki Don’t Lose That Number
Rod Stewart - Do You Think I’m Sexy
Rod Stewart - Maggie May
Supertramp - Give A Little Bit
10cc - Things We Do For Love
10cc - I'm Not In Love
Toto - Hold The Line
Wings - Silly Love Songs
Wings - Maybe I’m Amazed
Wings - Band On The Run
Wings - Live And Let Die
Stevie Wonder - Superstition
Stevie Wonder - I Wish
Stevie Wonder - Higher Ground
Gary Wright - Dream Weaver


Where's CHICAGO?? Santana?

 

[Zeb Norris]

The tightest, most boring radio station on earth is far more exciting than this topic.

I knew from the title alone that it was Scooty... Scooty, for whom the evidence of ratings or research is meaningless. Scooty, who has never actually had to be responsible to ownership or staff for the success or failure of a radio station.

Bitching is easy. Doing anything to create better radio that is actually successful is far harder. But by all means, give it a try. You have the passion Scooty. You also have a lot to learn, but in radio learning on the job is still the most common way it's done.

 

[Icangelp]

Absolute nonsense...and seriously who are you fooling? Give us concrete evidence to your rediculous statement above.

I don't know you from Eve, but to make that kind of statement about what David has posted is "utterly ridiculous". I have followed this thread from your intial post and you have provided Zero (0) evidence to back up your wild and preposterous remarks, and yet you accuse him of the very thing you are doing. I'll tell you something. Don't know David, but having read his posts and visited his web site, I will guarantee you he can back up every statement he makes. He has been is the business since he was a teen and among other things, he has made his living programming stations for many years. A person may not like David's prose, but a person cannot deny David's credentials.

I grew up in the late 50's and 60's. Guess what? KHJ, KRLA, KFWB and the host of other pretenders all played the same tight playlist of songs. 20 - 40 songs played over and over again.

What has changed is we now have so many ways to enjoy the music we specifically want to hear:
Ipod
CD's
SiriusXM
Itunes
Rhapsody
Internet radio
AM & FM radio

In this day an age why would anyone complain about FM stations limiting their playlists to a few hundred songs?

 

[oldies76]

I don't know you from Eve, but to make that kind of statement about what David has posted is "utterly ridiculous". I have followed this thread from your intial post and you have provided Zero (0) evidence to back up your wild and preposterous remarks, and yet you accuse him of the very thing you are doing. I'll tell you something. Don't know David, but having read his posts and visited his web site, I will guarantee you he can back up every statement he makes. He has been is the business since he was a teen and among other things, he has made his living programming stations for many years. A person may not like David's prose, but a person cannot deny David's credentials.

I grew up in the late 50's and 60's. Guess what? KHJ, KRLA, KFWB and the host of other pretenders all played the same tight playlist of songs. 20 - 40 songs played over and over again.

In this day an age why would anyone complain about FM stations limiting their playlists to a few hundred songs?

Number one, I did not initiate this post & number two growing up in the late 50's listening to those stations, is not the same as today. You were listening to a form of Top40, so you'd expect heavy rotation. Rock and Roll oldies stations did not exist in the 50's, unless you enjoyed the music of the 30's.

 

[oldies76]

In this day an age why would anyone complain about FM stations limiting their playlists to a few hundred songs?

In a time where we can realize that since 1955, thousands upon thousands of hit songs have been released and to only hear a select 400, over and over again with no variations, or a few at best, is simply outrageous. And of course, it depends on which stations are being described.

Yeah, we have our ipods, MP3's, the internet, as you say, but there's nothing like hearing music on the radio, the way we all grew up with.

 

[Silkie]

Where's CHICAGO?? Santana?

Good question. If you contact the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame about Chicago they will tell you that they had no early influence, so just because everyone loves them means nothing in the nominating process. Boring playlist to be sure, and again originality doesn't count (?)

 

[TheBigA]

In a time where we can realize that since 1955, thousands upon thousands of hit songs have been released and to only hear a select 400, over and over again with no variations, or a few at best, is simply outrageous.

I think anybody can tell you that of the thousands upon thousands of hit songs that have been released in the last fifty years, not many have really had the ability to resonate with a large number of people or stand the test of time. In fact, a large majority of the songs that get released are easily forgotten. Do I really need to hear Los Bravos? No. I could live without it.

The more songs you stuff into a format, the longer you have to wait for the song you WANT to hear. Ever put a quarter in a jukebox, and then have to wait for hours before it gets to playing your song? That's what could happen if radio stations tried to squeeze in every "oh wow" song that each individual listener might want. So they stick to the really important songs, the ones they know people want to hear, to cut down on the wait time between favorites.

 

[AM FM listener]

I actually think that (LA) radio is still exciting, even for someone limited to just the English language. However, it definitely helps to enjoy a wider variety of formats than just pop/rock oldies. Even still, having 4 good signals representing that group -- KRTH, Jack, KLOS and The Sound -- is quite good, if you ask me.

Plus, we have multiple choices within other musical tastes: new pop/rock with KROQ, KYSR and The Sound (to some degree); pop/adult with KOST, KBIG and KMVN; top 40/hip-hop with KIIS, KPWR and KXOL; and R&B with Hot, KJLH and KDAY. Add to that two all-news, two all-sports, a half-dozen talk, and some quality non-comms, I'd say there's still a lot from which to choose.

I might sympathize if you are a big fan of country, jazz, classical or Christian music; not as many choices there.

 

[LA_Guy]

I actually think that (LA) radio is still exciting, even for someone limited to just the English language. However, it definitely helps to enjoy a wider variety of formats than just pop/rock oldies. Even still, having 4 good signals representing that group -- KRTH, Jack, KLOS and The Sound -- is quite good, if you ask me.

Plus, we have multiple choices within other musical tastes: new pop/rock with KROQ, KYSR and The Sound (to some degree); pop/adult with KOST, KBIG and KMVN; top 40/hip-hop with KIIS, KPWR and KXOL; and R&B with Hot, KJLH and KDAY. Add to that two all-news, two all-sports, a half-dozen talk, and some quality non-comms, I'd say there's still a lot from which to choose.

I might sympathize if you are a big fan of country, jazz, classical or Christian music; not as many choices there.

Engilsh LA radio sucks! Compare it to markets like Chicago, or San Francisco or Seattle and you'll see what I mean. The big problem with LA radio is two things: corporate radio and a crappy college radio band. Go to most any other city and you'll find lots of small college FM stations serving their campuses and the surrounding area-REALLY innovating! Here in LA thanks to things being so close to Mexico, there are but a few high powered college FM stations-none of the little ones that add so much to diversity.

 

[calguy]

Radio is boring, blah, blah, blah... This thread is boring. It's the same old thing. You hate radio, you hate the music, you hate the personalities and you hate the owners. Well we all might feel that way, but you know what, no radio station can please everyone, and I'm going out on a limb here, it can't and never will please you. It's all over researched and programmed by people who have no idea how to program from the gut, but guess what? It ain't gonna change. I wish it would, but... That's because none of these large companies that own everything will even let anyone program the way they did 30 years ago. They micro-manage everything and they watch what's going on at all of their properties to the degree that no PD in his or her right mind would try anything for fear of losing their job. Would I like to see a balance of research and gut style programming like it was in the 80’s, yeah, but like I said, that’s not going to happen. Yes, David is right about the music, that's the way it's done now days; no matter how much you hate it. But in all honesty, there is good radio going on in LA, it doesn’t seem so cool because we’re all jaded. Maybe you shouldn’t listen so much, take some time off. Get out and go to a movie, talk to your wife, husband, friend or whoever, or maybe read a book. Then when you come back radio might sound a little better. Hell in the “old days” we used to put on an album and listen to it, not just to the radio. Oh and by the way, if CBS FM is so great, MOVE TO NEW YORK! We have KRTH and while it doesn't seem to meet your standards, it's a million percent better than it was 4 years ago. Sometimes it's better to be thankful for what you got. As for the new music being boring, I blame the record companies. Lately they don’t seem to recognize good talent from bad. Wow I feel better now, rant over, thank you... You may rip me now if you feel you must.

 

[TheBigA]

That's because none of these large companies that own everything will even let anyone program the way they did 30 years ago.

I was around 30 years ago, and don't recall being allowed to program from the gut. I had to justify everything I did. Yes, there were a handful of progressive rock stations that, for a time, played anything. In most places, that was a short-lived experiment. Sort of what happened with Indie.