Why Radio Is Boring

[calguy]

That's because none of these large companies that own everything will even let anyone program the way they did 30 years ago.

I was around 30 years ago, and don't recall being allowed to program from the gut. I had to justify everything I did. Yes, there were a handful of progressive rock stations that, for a time, played anything. In most places, that was a short-lived experiment. Sort of what happened with Indie.

Ahh, where you worked. We may have had to justify most of what we did, but back then there was a whole lot less "oversight" as companies had a lot less management to answer to. Where I worked we just went about creating radio as we saw it. Management had no problem as long as we stayed within the format and were successful.

 

[Icangelp]

In this day an age why would anyone complain about FM stations limiting their playlists to a few hundred songs?

In a time where we can realize that since 1955, thousands upon thousands of hit songs have been released and to only hear a select 400, over and over again with no variations, or a few at best, is simply outrageous. And of course, it depends on which stations are being described.

Yeah, we have our ipods, MP3's, the internet, as you say, but there's nothing like hearing music on the radio, the way we all grew up with.

If a person has managed to become bored with a playlist of 400, I'm guessing that person listens to radio several hours a day, and if they do, they are an extreme minority. If that is the case, radio is not programmed for them, and they may be better served through other venues.

The reason why commercial stations are in business is to make money for the owners, and to generate enough cash flow to pay off debt. I bet they focus tons of effort on research to determine what programming makes the most money for the company. Guess what, it has been that way since I was young kid. The difference is that today there is so much more data available for making a wise decision.

Bottom line. Most people only listen to radio for short periods of time and most people want to hear music that is familiar to them.

I'll tell you another thing. It is to a large part thanks to ownership consolidation that there is as much variety in music formats today. I'm thinking we have so many formats because owners have to differentiate among their local market stations.

I can't help but think that a lot of this type of complaining comes from people who aren't interested in facts. Then there are the disgruntled employee type who got fired because they wouldn't do what they were told and will complain till the dirt is thrown on the casket. That said, I have no reason to believe you are either of those oldies76.

 

[Icangelp]

Engilsh LA radio sucks! Compare it to markets like Chicago, or San Francisco or Seattle and you'll see what I mean. The big problem with LA radio is two things: corporate radio and a crappy college radio band. Go to most any other city and you'll find lots of small college FM stations serving their campuses and the surrounding area-REALLY innovating! Here in LA thanks to things being so close to Mexico, there are but a few high powered college FM stations-none of the little ones that add so much to diversity.

Please name for me those stations in Chicago, San Francisco and Seattle that are (REALLY innovating!" I'd like to listen.

And what, pray tell is wrong with corporate radio?

 

[oldies76]

I can't help but think that a lot of this type of complaining comes from people who aren't interested in facts. Then there are the disgruntled employee type who got fired because they wouldn't do what they were told and will complain till the dirt is thrown on the casket. That said, I have no reason to believe you are either of those oldies76.

??? Sure, OK

 

[scooty430]

Where's CHICAGO?? Santana?

Good question. If you contact the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame about Chicago they will tell you that they had no early influence, so just because everyone loves them means nothing in the nominating process. Boring playlist to be sure, and again originality doesn't count (?)

Great exchange between Triple J and Jim Ladd back on The Edge. One day Ladd was whining as usual. Jackson said, (jokingly) "shut up Ladd. If it wasn't for me, you'd still be playing Black Magic Woman three times a day."

Anyhow, Santana are indeed on my JACK/KLOS/KRTH list of boredom. However, Chicago aren't, because JACK doesn't play Chicago (but KLOS and KRTH sure do!) To get on the list, you had to be on all three. (No offense to either band - seen 'em both live. Just bored with the handful of overplayed tunes.)

 

[scooty430]

In this day an age why would anyone complain about FM stations limiting their playlists to a few hundred songs?

In a time where we can realize that since 1955, thousands upon thousands of hit songs have been released and to only hear a select 400, over and over again with no variations, or a few at best, is simply outrageous. And of course, it depends on which stations are being described.

Yeah, we have our ipods, MP3's, the internet, as you say, but there's nothing like hearing music on the radio, the way we all grew up with.

If a person has managed to become bored with a playlist of 400, I'm guessing that person listens to radio several hours a day, and if they do, they are an extreme minority. If that is the case, radio is not programmed for them, and they may be better served through other venues.

The reason why commercial stations are in business is to make money for the owners, and to generate enough cash flow to pay off debt. I bet they focus tons of effort on research to determine what programming makes the most money for the company. Guess what, it has been that way since I was young kid. The difference is that today there is so much more data available for making a wise decision.

Bottom line. Most people only listen to radio for short periods of time and most people want to hear music that is familiar to them.

I'll tell you another thing. It is to a large part thanks to ownership consolidation that there is as much variety in music formats today. I'm thinking we have so many formats because owners have to differentiate among their local market stations.

I can't help but think that a lot of this type of complaining comes from people who aren't interested in facts. Then there are the disgruntled employee type who got fired because they wouldn't do what they were told and will complain till the dirt is thrown on the casket. That said, I have no reason to believe you are either of those oldies76.

You can hear 300 or 400 songs in about two days.

Now think of the average rock fan. He or she's been listening to the radio all their life, for 20 years, maybe 30, maybe 40 years!

Any rock fan, even a very moderate one, is sick of these songs.

You know, slumlords are sometimes sentenced by judges to live in the dilapidated apartments they rent. Perhaps radio owners, program directors, and anyone else responsible for this should be sentenced to listen to KRTH or KLOS all day for a year.

 

[TheBigA]

Any rock fan, even a very moderate one, is sick of these songs.

As we keep saying, there simply is no way to satisfy a "fan."

 

[ronkaram]

Refering to David's comment:
Cleveland, Ohio in the late 50's to early 60's.... 3 Top 40, 3 MOR, 2 Black stations. That was what you could get then... 8 AMs in the market, and 3 formats.

WHK was the only true top 40 station. KYW mixed in a lot of MOR, especially during the day, and WERE somewhere in between, but never made it in the ratings, and the format didn't last very long and was MOR most of the time. But before WERE, there was WJW, but they played a lot of stuff the others wouldn't play and from what I understand lost a lot of money before going MOR. The other MOR, WGAR was very old sounding and drew older people like my parents. WJMO and WABQ were hard to get in Akron so I don't remember much about them.

 

[davideduardo]

Refering to David's comment:
Cleveland, Ohio in the late 50's to early 60's.... 3 Top 40, 3 MOR, 2 Black stations. That was what you could get then... 8 AMs in the market, and 3 formats.

WHK was the only true top 40 station. KYW mixed in a lot of MOR, especially during the day, and WERE somewhere in between, but never made it in the ratings, and the format didn't last very long and was MOR most of the time. But before WERE, there was WJW, but they played a lot of stuff the others wouldn't play and from what I understand lost a lot of money before going MOR. The other MOR, WGAR was very old sounding and drew older people like my parents. WJMO and WABQ were hard to get in Akron so I don't remember much about them.

From the late 50's into the early 60's (Pre-WIXY) WERE with Specs Howard, Joe Finan, etc., was definitely Top 40. WKYC was certaninly Top 40 most of the time, and WHK with Color Radio Channel 14 was also a definite Top 40. For a while, pre-WHK, WERE was #1 in the market.

WJW, where Mad Daddy Pete Meyers did nights before going to New York (and inspiring the pulp novel "DJ") was only Top 40 at night... they carried a bunch of network shows in the daytime. And after Myers left (he also did a movie presentation on Channel 8 as did the infamous Ghoulardi, the Italian Dracula wannabe), they reverted to MOR.

WJMO was first on 1540, and at the end of the 50's moved to the WSRS facility at Cedar and Lee Roads in Cleveland Heights and was the leading R&B station; WABQ took the 1540 position but that was a daytimer. WJMO, in about 1961, left WCUY and the Blue Room above the car dealer and moved to Euclid Avenue just East of the Severance Center area so the transmitter could be closer to the Black community. The rest of us stayed behind and did logs a month in advance, since the FM could not sell any spots at all.

WGAR, WJW and WDOK were basically MOR... with WDOK playing more instrumentals.

 

[RicoGregg]

Great exchange between Triple J and Jim Ladd back on The Edge. One day Ladd was whining as usual. Jackson said, (jokingly) "shut up Ladd. If it wasn't for me, you'd still be playing Black Magic Woman three times a day."

When The Edge was going, I worked down the hallway at KMPC. I knew both Jim Ladd and J.J. Jackson, rest his soul. I saw them everyday. They were both great guys and class acts.

Over the course of 40 years or so, Jim Ladd has done his so-called "whining" at places like KPPC, KMET, KNAC, KMPC-FM/KEDG, and KLOS twice.

Where the hell have you done your on-air whining?

Your chronic pontificating has gotten old and stale. Widen your own playlist.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Great exchange between Triple J and Jim Ladd back on The Edge. One day Ladd was whining as usual. Jackson said, (jokingly) "shut up Ladd. If it wasn't for me, you'd still be playing Black Magic Woman three times a day."

When The Edge was going, I worked down the hallway at KMPC. I knew both Jim Ladd and J.J. Jackson, rest his soul. I saw them everyday. They were both great guys and class acts.

Over the course of 40 years or so, Jim Ladd has done his so-called "whining" at places like KPPC, KMET, KNAC, KMPC-FM/KEDG, and KLOS twice.

Where the hell have you done your on-air whining?

Your chronic pontificating has gotten old and stale. Widen your own playlist.

I used to be a fan of Ladd's for his principled approach to rock radio and the variety of acts he plays. His politics used to be annoying (he is somewhere to the left of Fidel) and he would pontificate every now and then, but I would ignore it or tune him out during those times.

But over the last few years, the politics took over the show and I no longer listen. Same old tripe - Bush and Republiucans are Evil, Obama and Democrats are "enlightend with everlasting love". If you don't agree, you must be one of those evil Republicans too. I want to hear great music, not a wanna-be Air America blowhard.

To say he whines on a regular basis is actually a pretty fair statement.

 

[Board Editor 3]

MOVED: Re: Why Radio Is Boring

Some posts have been moved to Take It Outside.

[iurl]http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=120824.0[/iurl]

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I used to be a fan of Ladd's for his principled approach to rock radio and the variety of acts he plays. His politics used to be annoying (he is somewhere to the left of Fidel) and he would pontificate every now and then, but I would ignore it or tune him out during those times.

Whoa buddy, take the angst and the name-calling elsewhere.

Who mentioned the blacklisting and the HUAC? I said I tune him out. I didn't advocate him losing his show, or in any way imply that he can't say what he wants. I also didn't say he wants to go on Air America, I said he sounds like an Air America blowhard. My opinion.

Who mentioned who was 'left of Fidel"?

What name did I call you? I'm not seeing it. Maybe it's because I didn't.

Now for the facts that will really blow your mind. I am not a Republican nor did I ever vote for Bush. (OMG!) I just don't want to hear his politics (or God help us, yours) or anyone else's on a classic rock station - I want to hear classic rock. But as you've already demonstrated, facts are a little bit hard for you to deal with, especially when they don't fit your pre-conceived, narrow view of the world.

Get a Grip.

1) Did I ask how you voted?

2) Whatever my politics are, why would God need to help?

3) You accused Ladd of being "Left of Fidel", you accused me of name calling when I clearly didn't, and you say that facts are hard for me to deal with? Puh-leez!

4) You don't know me, what the hell makes you think my view of the world is narrow? Please explain yourself.

5) What we have here is a classic case of someone who can dish it out, but can't take it.

But don't worry. I won't call you a name, just like I haven't anywhere in this thread.

I won't call you an idiot.
I won't call you a moron.
I won't call you clueless.
Nope. I won't call you any of those things.

Why, I could never, ever, do such a thing. Why, the very idea....

Maybe you have a hard time reading - I said take it elsewhere. If you want to troll and argue and have a battle to see who can have the last word on your petty pissing matches, there are plenty of other trolls and even some knowledgeable posters here on this board that will be pleased to accomodate you for many posts.

I made an original post with my opinion - if you disagree, then you can politely post back and perhaps there is room for a healthy debate. But since constructive prose seems to be beyond you, I really don't care what you think about me or anyone else. It is a radio board, and your topics should stick to it and not other posters. That said, I am done with you on this topic.

 

[OCradiodude]

Bottom line: the oldies format needs to be re-constructed. In this case I will say oldies is everything from 1955 to 1980 (this would include JACK, KLOS, and KRTH for our purposes). Some of you mentioned KHJ and KRLA as being favorites. Did anyone take into account what made these stations special? DJs and their patter, production, jingles, and rotating music. The songs would not be the same 30 days later. The problem with JACK, KLOS, and KRTH as several of you put it? Four hundred songs over and over.
I can see your concerns. The problem is that there are not hosts of new songs in sight, as there is no new material as all the songs are old.

Four hundred hundred songs are a lot more than 30 to 40 in the old days. But new songs were added each week and old songs would be removed.

 

[ronkaram]

Re: Why Radio Is Boring more on Cleveland for David

I forgot WDOK, which I believe was a classical station. I think I remember reading in the Plain Dealer that the owner had a partner who wanted to go top 40, but his wife convinced him to buy the partner out and keep it classical. I moved to LA Sept 1965 before WIXY came along, but I did hear it on vacations.
I only remember Joe Finan and Specs Howard on KYW. At WERE I remember Bill Randal.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Why Radio Is Boring more on Cleveland for David

I forgot WDOK, which I believe was a classical station. I think I remember reading in the Plain Dealer that the owner had a partner who wanted to go top 40, but his wife convinced him to buy the partner out and keep it classical. I moved to LA Sept 1965 before WIXY came along, but I did hear it on vacations.

WDOK was not classical in the period under discussion... late 50's into the 60's. In fact, in 1958, Norman Wain, who with partner Bob Weiss, would buy the station and make it WIXY some years later, was programming it as an MOR / Beautiful Music station.