Why Radio Is Making A Comeback & The AI Influence

[K.M. Richards]

Because you have to encode to be counted by Nielsen's PPM. None of the national streams want to pay for encoding or subscribing to Nielsen, because they themselves operate a subscription business. We'll see what happens in the Cumulus lawsuit. That could change things.

Good point, and one I hope the courts consider in the Cumulus v. Nielsen matter.

However, if you stream via iHeart or Audacy or TuneIn, they will insert national commercials. You're no longer restricted to your local market. Your stream can now be heard everywhere. People will now listen to your station because of the content, not just because it's local.

My understanding is that when that happens, altering the "substantially identical" provisions of whether a stream actually is simulcasting the terrestrial station, that single-line reporting is not available as an option to subscribing stations.

One cannot blame iHeart or Audacy for operating their own platforms for their stations, but in the long run I think it will hurt them. TuneIn is a less expensive option for other stations, but (again) at the expense of not having their streams count in the ratings. I think it's a "cut off your nose to spite your face" solution and the stations I work with pay for their own streaming, for precisely that reason.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I say this all the time: There is no format radio could create, no amount of talent that radio can hire, no amount of PR radio can do that will change the fact that over 90% of the public uses their phone as their primary communications device.

I can't imagine why with the poor sound quality.

Speakers with a desktop sound good.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

I can't imagine why with the poor sound quality.

Speakers with a desktop sound good.

people are very mobile and move around but even if they arent, they arent tied to once location and most things the avg person needs online can be done with a phone.

Im curious @vchimpanzee what ball park age range are you? Over the years posting here, you seem to hold onto some old fashioned beliefs .. which isnt wrong in itself, but knowing someones "approximate" age sometimes puts things into perspective.

I'm 42

 

[Mediafrog+]

I can't imagine why with the poor sound quality.

Anyone listening to audio via a smartphone’s own speakers isn’t picky about sound quality. Everyone else is listening on good quality earbuds.

Speakers with a desktop sound good.

I have a hard time fitting a desktop computer and its speakers into my pocket.

 

[vw86]

My understanding is that when that happens, altering the "substantially identical" provisions of whether a stream actually is simulcasting the terrestrial station, that single-line reporting is not available as an option to subscribing stations.

That is how it is written, but every iHeart station in a PPM market gets TLR. As do other major players. Here in Orlando our Audacy Classic Hits station (105.9 Sunny FM) has TLR, but not the Hot AC (Mix 105.1) or Throwbacks (102 Jamz). But they all have the localized inserts for spot breaks on the stream. Over at Cox WDBO, Star 94.5 and Hits 96.5 get TLR but WMMO and K92 do not. But they all have the local ads inserted into spot breaks based on device location.

 

[K.M. Richards]

That is how it is written, but every iHeart station in a PPM market gets TLR. As do other major players.

With all due respect, I would like either citable sources or David's opinion as he is knowledgeable on the subject.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm surprised because I thought by the mid 60s people weren't even calling it rock and roll any more.

You are wrong. I owned a Top 40 AM station from 1964-1970 and an FM album rock station from 1968 on. So I followed Gavin and the other trades and many called top 40 stations "rockers" in that period. And when I was in Birmingham around 1972, we referred to Top 40 WSGN as the local "rocker" until I put "rock 40" on WERC FM.

 

[davideduardo]

With all due respect, I would like either citable sources or David's opinion as he is knowledgeable on the subject.

If you run stopsets with different ads OTA than on the stream, you are not allowed to have SLR. Period.

Ratings are done for advertisers. If advertisers are actually not getting the audience that the ratings say they are, then this is fraud.

 

[vchimpanzee]

You are wrong. I owned a Top 40 AM station from 1964-1970 and an FM album rock station from 1968 on. So I followed Gavin and the other trades and many called top 40 stations "rockers" in that period. And when I was in Birmingham around 1972, we referred to Top 40 WSGN as the local "rocker" until I put "rock 40" on WERC FM.

You're saying rock, not rock and roll.

 

[vchimpanzee]

people are very mobile and move around but even if they arent, they arent tied to once location and most things the avg person needs online can be done with a phone.

Which I have no desire to carry or figure out how to use, or pay that much for. This is why I used to complain about what the actual stations were and were not doing. I could listen to music I liked in the car until 10 years ago, though back then I hadn't discovered an actual station that was almost as good if I traveled farther west or just put up with interference, which was less in a newer car. And 10 years ago, I just had to get used to a station that wasn't always quite what I wanted, which I had already done in some areas to get a better signal. I also started listening to music on my computer at home on stations that could handle slow Internet, and after a few months I convinced my phone company to give me faster Internet for a reasonable price by threatening to switch to the cable company.

Im curious @vchimpanzee what ball park age range are you? Over the years posting here, you seem to hold onto some old fashioned beliefs .. which isnt wrong in itself, but knowing someones "approximate" age sometimes puts things into perspective.

I'm 42

I had essentially the same music tastes when I was a teenager as now, but I like music from the 40s and 50s even more now that I've listened to stations playing that style for years. But I am finally out of the age range advertisers want.

 

[vw86]

With all due respect, I would like either citable sources or David's opinion as he is knowledgeable on the subject.

You can see all stations that do any sort of combining frequencies/streams for Nielsen reporting purposes here: Simulcast Total Line Reporting

Search for any iHeart station in a PPM market. Or go to any public 6+ monthly release on Radioinsight and try to find an iHeart stream separated out.

 

[K.M. Richards]

You can see all stations that do any sort of combining frequencies/streams for Nielsen reporting purposes here: Simulcast Total Line Reporting

Search for any iHeart station in a PPM market. Or go to any public 6+ monthly release on Radioinsight and try to find an iHeart stream separated out.

David says otherwise. I will leave you to argue with him about it. Good luck.

 

[vw86]

I'm not arguing with anyone. I agree with David. Everything David has said about the guidelines for TLR is spelled right out in Nielsen's language on the link I provided.

All I'm saying is that even with those guidelines, both the Nielsen provided list of TLR stations as well as the monthly 6+ ratings that are made public show a large number of stations, including all iHeart stations in PPM markets, show that iHeart combines the OTA and stream into TLR for their stations.

 

[TexasTom]

Almost every tape-based syndicator ended up selling their client lists to either D-C or Broadcast Programming International at some point in the 1980s. In your case, Wikipedia has a cited reference showing that your recollection is correct; it happened in 1986, with D-C continuing to provide formats and TM being renamed "Programming Consultants".

Unfortunately, the combination of debt service and the advent of satellite-delivered formats did them in, with Drake-Chenault partnering with Jones International in 1989 to launch five such formats, only to end up being acquired two years later by Jones. At that point, the remaining tape-based clients were transferred to (surprise) BPI ... which was then also acquired by Jones eight years later, by which time BPI was only distributed syndicated programs, not formats.

I was able to receive a fringe signal on TM Stereo Rock outlet KDSQ(FM) 101.7 out of Denison/Sherman, TX during that period. While there were some changes to the format (notably, the business of playing two current songs and back announcing them got dumped in favor of just playing a single current and back announcing it probably a year before TM Productions sold that business to Drake-Chenault. In other respects, it really had a very similar feel under D-C as it had under TM Productions until the station dropped the taped format in 1990 in favor of Satellite Music Networks' truly dreadful "The Heat" Top 40 format.

From the timeline that you outline above, I'm guessing that the format ceased to exist entirely not all that long after. But I've never been able to find out for sure when the tape-syndicated format was actually dropped from Programming Consults/Jones' offerings. Or how many stations carried it at the end (but my guess is that it wasn't many).

 

[vw86]

Here is some additional info on the Single Line/Total Line Reporting conversation from a recent piece on InsideRadio

Nielsen Updates Total Line Reporting Guidelines.

Nielsen is tightening its Total Line Reporting (TLR) policy for radio stations that elect to combine over-the-air and online ratings. In a notification to clients, the measurement giant says broadcasters

www.insideradio.com

 

[K.M. Richards]

Here is some additional info on the Single Line/Total Line Reporting conversation from a recent piece on InsideRadio

Under the specific provisions mentioned in the article, a station's local stream would be eligible for TLR, but only if there were no national commercials replacing the local ones within the station's local market.

If a station did replace the commercials in-market on the stream, that constitutes a violation of the "substantially identical" requirement that I cited earlier in the thread and which you tried to prove me wrong about.

So, thank you for posting an article which vindicates me.

 

[vw86]

As I've said - I have agreed with both you and David this entire time. The rules are pretty cut and dry. Which is why I have never understood how certain stations, specifically all of the iHeart stations, have been granted Single Line Reporting.

 

[K.M. Richards]

As I've said - I have agreed with both you and David this entire time. The rules are pretty cut and dry. Which is why I have never understood how certain stations, specifically all of the iHeart stations, have been granted Single Line Reporting.

This is only a guess on my part, but in PPM markets, there has always been a disconnect on monitoring the stream and therefore "hearing" the encoding. Perhaps there isn't any real SLR that includes streams in those markets?

And perhaps in diary markets, the streams are complying with the "substantially identical" requirement so it isn't an issue?

 

[KilowattKat]

I don't know if anyone has read the AI overview of 'radiodiscussions.com', but it shows you AI is still learning, and to be careful what you read! 😊

Radiodiscussions.com
was a popular online forum for radio and broadcasting enthusiasts, known for deep discussions on radio, TV, and media, but it was shut down by its owners around late 2013/early 2014, though it briefly returned before its ultimate demise, leaving behind a legacy as a key community site for industry insiders and fans.
Key points about RadioDiscussions.com:

• Purpose: A dedicated online space for people in and around the radio, TV, and media industries to chat, share news, and discuss trends.
• History: Started in the mid-1990s, it became a staple community.
• Closure: The site faced closure and was terminated by its owners around late 2013, with efforts to revive it in early 2014 proving unsuccessful in the long run.
• Legacy: Even after its closure, its impact is remembered, with some industry sites like Engineering Radio and Radio & Television Business Report marking its departure and brief return.

While the site itself is gone, its history reflects a significant period for online radio communities, with current discussions often found on related media news sites like radioinsight.com

 

[radiofan2023]

I don't know if anyone has read the AI overview of 'radiodiscussions.com', but it shows you AI is still learning, and to be careful what you read! 😊

Radiodiscussions.com
was a popular online forum for radio and broadcasting enthusiasts, known for deep discussions on radio, TV, and media, but it was shut down by its owners around late 2013/early 2014, though it briefly returned before its ultimate demise, leaving behind a legacy as a key community site for industry insiders and fans.
Key points about RadioDiscussions.com:

• Purpose: A dedicated online space for people in and around the radio, TV, and media industries to chat, share news, and discuss trends.
• History: Started in the mid-1990s, it became a staple community.
• Closure: The site faced closure and was terminated by its owners around late 2013, with efforts to revive it in early 2014 proving unsuccessful in the long run.
• Legacy: Even after its closure, its impact is remembered, with some industry sites like Engineering Radio and Radio & Television Business Report marking its departure and brief return.

While the site itself is gone, its history reflects a significant period for online radio communities, with current discussions often found on related media news sites like radioinsight.com

And this is example #1,896,592 why people should verify what AI tells them instead of just believing it.