Why ratings don't matter ... to Sports-format stations

[K.M. Richards]

On numerous occasions, posters have questioned why there are so many Sports-format stations in L.A., and inevitably quote the ratings as "proof" the format is not viable.

I have, several times, tried to explain why that reasoning is flawed and why that format does not need ratings to sell, only to be (as always) told I am wrong.

This morning's LARadio.com has an explanation from Bob Scott, who has sold airtime on KLAC for many years, following many more years at ESPN.

Please go read it. And then, stop questioning the viability of the format.

 

[Thomps2525]

Bob Scott wrote, "Sports stations target men 18–54 who are avid sports fans.Those who fit the target tend to have similar lifestyles, income levels, buying habits and listening habits." He adds that those who listen to sports stations are "actively engaged" and don't just have the station on for background noise.

In 1987, WHN in New York dropped country music and switched to a sports format as WFAN. In 1990, the station finally starting turning a profit and the New York Times did a big story about WFAN and the new XTRA Sports 690. Hurry and read it:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/12/b...s-radio-format-arrives-on-the-west-coast.html

 

[briancraig]

I still don't understand how sports stations with no listeners in many markerts make money. Some of these stations get such low ratings that they have virtually no audience.

I get the part about how the audience is all 18-54 active men or whatever but again many of these stations have pretty much ZERO audience. In L.A. a 0.2 still equals lots of people because it is market 2. But in market 60 something a .2 is nobody yet some of these stations bill well.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Sports stations in smaller markets make almost all of their money on play-by-play. The low-rated sports station in market #60 (Birmingham) is WJQX, with a 0.6 12+ rating in the last period. It runs ESPN Radio basically around the clock, carries Auburn sports, and will take overflow from its sister stations (which have Alabama football, MLB and NFL football) as needed.

The cost of running WJQX is a rounding error for the GM. Revenue from play-by-play is substantial. Therefore, profit.

 

[TheBigA]

I still don't understand how sports stations with no listeners in many markerts make money.

There are many ways to sell. You don't always sell ratings. Ratings = reach, and that doesn't always = sales.

You sell demos. Or you sell passion. There are lots of ways to measure audience. The key is to deliver the kind of audience an advertiser wants to buy.

 

[michael hagerty]

Bob Scott wrote, "Sports stations target men 18–54 who are avid sports fans.Those who fit the target tend to have similar lifestyles, income levels, buying habits and listening habits." He adds that those who listen to sports stations are "actively engaged" and don't just have the station on for background noise.

In 1987, WHN in New York dropped country music and switched to a sports format as WFAN. In 1990, the station finally starting turning a profit and the New York Times did a big story about WFAN and the new XTRA Sports 690. Hurry and read it:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/12/b...s-radio-format-arrives-on-the-west-coast.html

The key four paragraphs about why, in 1990 the station finally started turning a profit:

WFAN required a lot of fine-tuning before the radio station became profitable, Mr. Smulyan said. He said he lost $7 million to $8 million before reaching profitability.

The turning point came when Emmis Broadcasting purchased WNBC-AM and moved WFAN to 660 on the AM dial from 1050. The deal provided not only a stronger signal but the rights to broadcast the New York Knicks and the New York Rangers. WFAN was already broadcasting the Mets.

The purchase of WNBC also brought the irreverent morning announcer, Don Imus, whose abrasive, insulting, wide-ranging discussions have a strong following in New York. While Mr. Imus spends a fair amount of time mocking the all-sports programming that fills the rest of WFAN's day, he greatly broadened the listenership of WFAN to include more male listeners, and some female listeners, Mr. Smulyan said.

He also provided the station with a strong position in the morning "drive time" -- radio's prime time.

 

[Thomps2525]

Remember when "abrasive, insulting" Don Imus was on KLAC? I had never heard him before. On July 8, 1996, when KLAC started carrying his morning show, I taped some of it.....and I never listened again. He was...well...too abrasive and insulting for my tastes. In 1998, KLAC dropped Imus. What woiks on radio in New Yawk ain't ne'ssarily gonna woik on radio in Los Angeles, ya know?

 

[michael hagerty]

Remember when "abrasive, insulting" Don Imus was on KLAC? I had never heard him before. On July 8, 1996, when KLAC started carrying his morning show, I taped some of it.....and I never listened again. He was...well...too abrasive and insulting for my tastes. In 1998, KLAC dropped Imus. What woiks on radio in New Yawk ain't ne'ssarily gonna woik on radio in Los Angeles, ya know?

True. Though Imus worked well in Palmdale, Stockton and Sacramento before going on to New York. And he was Robert W. Morgan's favorite DJ.

 

[K.M. Richards]

True. Though Imus worked well in Palmdale, Stockton and Sacramento before going on to New York. And he was Robert W. Morgan's favorite DJ.

If you want a really entertaining read, go to David's archives and click on his scan of my copy of the March/April 1976 issue of Broadcast Programming and Production which features an interview with Imus and Morgan together which goes on for nine pages (less ads).
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Broadcast_Programming_Production.htm

My favorite line is where Imus talks about "Morganizing" people while Robert W. was between gigs.

 

[michael hagerty]

If you want a really entertaining read, go to David's archives and click on his scan of my copy of the March/April 1976 issue of Broadcast Programming and Production which features an interview with Imus and Morgan together which goes on for nine pages (less ads).
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Broadcast_Programming_Production.htm

My favorite line is where Imus talks about "Morganizing" people while Robert W. was between gigs.

A very good read, KMR! It's amazing how much more mature (and possibly sober) Morgan and Imus were here than in their 1972 interview with Claude Hall in Billboard:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-A...a=X&ei=kkJWVP3gOc-voQTAjILIAg&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAQ

 

[LKellerIII]

True. Though Imus worked well in Palmdale, Stockton and Sacramento before going on to New York. And he was Robert W. Morgan's favorite DJ.

Wasn't that a 2 way admiration society? If I'm not remembering incorrectly, Imus was a big fan of Morgan, and of early Boss Radio, in general.

FYI - for a little historical perspective on insulting "DJs" not being viable in Los Angeles - in the early and mid 60s, Joe Pyne on KLAC was top rated (even beating Morgan on KHJ and Bob Crane on KNX). Though he was a talk-host, not a DJ, he was probably the most insulting person ever on radio or TV. Morton Downey Jr. and Wally George echoed Pyne's style (if you could call it that) in later years. Pyne would insult admiring housewives who would call in. One of his favorite sayings was "Go gargle with razor blades."

 

[michael hagerty]

Wasn't that a 2 way admiration society? If I'm not remembering incorrectly, Imus was a big fan of Morgan, and of early Boss Radio, in general.

FYI - for a little historical perspective on insulting "DJs" not being viable in Los Angeles - in the early and mid 60s, Joe Pyne on KLAC was top rated (even beating Morgan on KHJ and Bob Crane on KNX). Though he was a talk-host, not a DJ, he was probably the most insulting person ever on radio or TV. Morton Downey Jr. and Wally George echoed Pyne's style (if you could call it that) in later years. Pyne would insult admiring housewives who would call in. One of his favorite sayings was "Go gargle with razor blades."

The friendship started when a friend of Imus who worked at KHJ introduced Imus...a fan just beginning his career in Palmdale...to Morgan.

As for insulting DJs...Morgan had a tongue on him, but he generally trained it on other jocks (especially Charlie Tuna), station management or people in public view, and not the audience. But then, I don't recall Imus ever going after listeners, either.

 

[LKellerIII]

The friendship started when a friend of Imus who worked at KHJ introduced Imus...a fan just beginning his career in Palmdale...to Morgan.

As for insulting DJs...Morgan had a tongue on him, but he generally trained it on other jocks (especially Charlie Tuna), station management or people in public view, and not the audience. But then, I don't recall Imus ever going after listeners, either.

I always found Morgan's tongue to be rather gentle - more or less just the chiding on-air radio folks would give each other in those days - nothing particularly insulting, though I recall he didn't seem to think much of Tuna - perhaps because Charlie became morning DJ while Morgan was on strike.

I was listening the morning Morgan returned and recall J. Paul Huddleston opening the mic to welcome him back. There was no regular interplay between Morgan and the news anchor, as became common in later years. It went something like this:

Huddleston (in character): GOOD MORGAN, ROBERT W...AND WELCOME BACK TO K-H-JAAAAAAAAAAY!!!

Morgan (laughing): Good Morgan, J. Paul. It's nice to see you're still as pompous as ever.

 

[michael hagerty]

He was roughest on Tuna ("from the General Manager right down to the littlest person at the station...Charlie Tuna"....."I'll never understand....all that money on his hair and not one dime on his teeth."), with Sam Riddle and Scotty Brink taking a few hits along the way, too. Steele was really the only one totally immune.