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Why so much Power?

M

majicrockstar

Why does it seem Buffalo has so many high powered stations, as compared to other cities? two 110,000 watt stations, a 105,000 watter, a 76,000 watter and even the low end seem to be high... Just kind of curiuos why that is? Thanks ahead of time for your answers.. : )
 
Upstate New York is the location of many of the country's oldest licensed FM facilities which were authorized before the formal FCC allocation tables were adopted in the early 50s. (In fact, 98.9 in Rochester is the country's first licensed commercial FM, dating to 1939, when it went on the air as Stromberg-Carlson's FM sister to WHAM. WHFM of course operated in the old low-frequency band before the postwar move to 98.9.)

As a result we have a number of what are today called "superpower class Bs" including stations in Buffalo, Syracuse and Utica.

Then there are the 50kw full-B facilities licensed to tiny rural hamlets like Wethersfield, DeRuyter and Cherry Valley, which were part of the GLF/Agway Rural Radio Network of 1948, but that's another Upstate NY FM story.
 
To add to Bob's post: There were a number of higher power FMs throughout the country. The Fetzer family had a 500kW FM, WJEF-FM Grand Rapids, Michigan. It could be heard clearly in Detroit. WMC-FM Memphis which signed on with 300kw. In the early days of FM, transmission and reception was treated similar to TV, with emphasis given to horizontal radiation. As the band blossomed in the late 60s and 70s, especially with FM in cars, equal horizontal and vertical radiation, and circular polarization became the standard.
 
Savage said:
Upstate New York is the location of many of the country's oldest licensed FM facilities which were authorized before the formal FCC allocation tables were adopted in the early 50s. (In fact, 98.9 in Rochester is the country's first licensed commercial FM, dating to 1939, when it went on the air as Stromberg-Carlson's FM sister to WHAM. WHFM of course operated in the old low-frequency band before the postwar move to 98.9.)
Click to expand...

1964, for the current FM rules.

(how sure are you about WHFM being the first commercial FM? WSM-FM makes a pretty solid claim on that. Or is it that WSM was authorized first but WHFM got the license-to-cover first? Or are you only counting FMs that are still on the air? - as WSM shut theirs down in the early 1950s, the WSM-FM that exists today only dates to the early 1960s)

_________________________________________________

Through much of the 1950s and until 1964, there was no limit to the amount of power an FM station could run.. I mean, you had to obey the figure on your license; the equipment necessary to operate at the requested power had to exist; and you couldn't interfere with other stations, but when you filed that application you could ask for as much power as you wanted and it would be granted. What I suspect was going on was that the FCC felt the FM service was slow in rolling out, and by authorizing very high-powered stations, they could provide FM service to outlying areas where nobody local was interested in FM.

In 1964, the framework of the current FM rules was adopted. This established the current table of allocations, and the absolute limit of 50kw/500' (later 150m) in the East. They "grandfathered" any station that was already authorized to operate at powers greater than what was in the new rules. (but it should be noted those stations are not protected from interference in the areas where their "extra" coverage happens. 102.5, for example, may be operating at 110kw/355m, but it's protected as if it was running 50kw/150m.)

There were actually quite a few "superpower" FMs authorized in the late 1940s and early 1950s. Powers of 200-300-400kw were not particularly unusual. But also in the early 1950s, it became apparent there was no money in FM. Many of these superpower FMs were never built, or got their permits modified for much lower powers. Others actually did go on the air, but by the mid/late 1950s had shut down & surrendered their licenses. So by 1964, there weren't that many superpower FMs left to grandfather.
 
WHFM (now WBZA)'s claim to fame is a little more subtle: it's one of the oldest FMs in the country, with continuous operation right back to its 1939 debut as W8XVB (later W45R, then WHFM). But what it can claim all to itself is this: out of all of the FMs that were "kicked upstairs" in 1948, only WHFM remains on the initial frequency to which it was allocated, 98.9. Everybody else who's survived from back then has been shifted again in frequency at least once, as best I can tell.
 
"WHFM (now WBZA)'s claim to fame is a little more subtle: it's one of the oldest FMs in the country, with continuous operation right back to its 1939 debut as W8XVB (later W45R, then WHFM). But what it can claim all to itself is this: out of all of the FMs that were "kicked upstairs" in 1948, only WHFM remains on the initial frequency to which it was allocated, 98.9."

What's more, it's one of the very few original 1939 experimental FMs with a continuous operating history right to the present day. By some folks' reckoning, only WDRC-FM in Hartford is older, and only by a matter of weeks. Others give credit to a handul of other stations, but "The Buzz 98.9" is definitely one of the five oldest continuously operating FMs in the world by everyone's reckoning.
 
Agreed...with one very big "but."

The present WDRC-FM on 102.9 was licensed in 1958. The original W1XPW up on Meriden Mountain, which became the original WDRC-FM, was sold off in 1956 and is now WHCN 105.9. While the current WDRC-FM makes more of the history, it's WHCN that continues to operate from the original Armstrong building on West Peak in Meriden.
 
Scott Fybush said:
WHFM (now WBZA)'s claim to fame is a little more subtle: it's one of the oldest FMs in the country, with continuous operation right back to its 1939 debut as W8XVB (later W45R, then WHFM). But what it can claim all to itself is this: out of all of the FMs that were "kicked upstairs" in 1948, only WHFM remains on the initial frequency to which it was allocated, 98.9. Everybody else who's survived from back then has been shifted again in frequency at least once, as best I can tell.
Click to expand...

Ah. I'll buy that! Continuous operation by an FM through the late-50s dead zone was pretty unusual. W55M/WMFM/WTMJ-FM, another of the pioneers and a *major* supporter of early FM,also gave up on FM for a lengthy period in the 1950s/1960s.
 
WRVE in Schenectady also started in 1939. Parent company GE was also working on FM in those days.

Some of the super-power FM's had to back it down when they applied for things like more antenna height. 105.1 in Coral Gables, FL (Miami) went from 160KW to 100KW when they went to 1,000 feet. (class C).
 
North of the Border in Montreal, CKOI operates at 307KW from atop a downtown building in the city. Their 32 bay antenna is unmistakable.
 
Not to drag up a six month old topic, but if Memory Serves me, Rochester is the only market on the "I-90 corridor" without a "super power" FM licensed within its boundaries. (I don't recall if Amsterdam or Dunkirk are their own markets or not)

From East to West, you have.
Albany - WAMC-FM (10kW @ 600m)
Utica - WFRG-FM (100kW @ 139m)
Syracuse - WNTQ (97kW @ 201m), WYYY (100kW @ 198m)
Buffalo- WBUF (79kW @ 195m {until a few years ago, was 91kW @ 155m), WNED-FM (95kW @ 216), WDCX-FM (100kW @ 195m), and WTSS (100kW @ 355m)

And while not exactly ON the Thruway, WYXL in Ithaca runs at 26kW @ 268m. (The class maximum would be 16kW)

And yes, CKOI is a 16V & 16H antenna. I have a crappy, fuzzy photo I took of it a while back.
http://www.necrat.us/mmr7.jpg. (Clearly I need to return up there to get better photographs...)
 
"WHFM (now WBZA)'s claim to fame is a little more subtle: it's one of the oldest FMs in the country, with continuous operation right back to its 1939 debut as W8XVB (later W45R, then WHFM)."

Not to mention WKLX, WZKC, and WBBF before arriving at WBZA, aka "Buzz 98.9". 7 different callsigns...even with a 72 year continuous operating history that's got to be one of the longest lists of successive callsigns in radio history.

What's curious is why Stromberg-Carlson never took advantage of the almost vacant FM band of the 1940s and early 1950s to stake out a claim for higher power and a taller tower back when the FM band was no-rules radio. Gannett, which briefly occupied 96.5 with an FM simulcast companion for WHEC, ran 65 kW ERP back around 1948-50 if the guidebooks of that time are to be believed, before they bailed on FM to concentrate on the application which eventually put them on TV on Channel 10. WHFM stayed with 20 kW until the Class B limit increased to 50 after 1961 and no one else in Rochester other than Gannett ever got higher than 50, even though they could have back then. ("The Buzz" is now down to 37 kW ERP from about a 600 ft. HAAT antenna, equivalent to the 50 kW/500' HAAT norm for a Class B station.)
 
Bob1370 said:
What's curious is why Stromberg-Carlson never took advantage of the almost vacant FM band of the 1940s and early 1950s to stake out a claim for higher power and a taller tower back when the FM band was no-rules radio. Gannett, which briefly occupied 96.5 with an FM simulcast companion for WHEC, ran 65 kW ERP back around 1948-50 if the guidebooks of that time are to be believed, before they bailed on FM to concentrate on the application which eventually put them on TV on Channel 10. WHFM stayed with 20 kW until the Class B limit increased to 50 after 1961 and no one else in Rochester other than Gannett ever got higher than 50, even though they could have back then. ("The Buzz" is now down to 37 kW ERP from about a 600 ft. HAAT antenna, equivalent to the 50 kW/500' HAAT norm for a Class B station.)
Click to expand...

The historical problem with tall towers may be due to airspace limitations near the Rochester airport. I remember the hubbub when Malrite/WEZO (now WRMM) raised their FM tower in the '70s, which required a change in some flight paths. Certain residents were upset about the noise, and this experience contributed to anti-tower sentiment in Monroe County. I'm sure a few of you remember this. When WVOR decided move its main transmitter to Baker Hill in the early '80s, it was deemed impossible to build in Perinton, so the new tower went up just across the line in Victor (Ontario Co.)

Syracuse, Buffalo, and Utica have some fairly high terrain near their respective urbanized areas -- but from Rochester, the closest land exceeding 1000 feet AMSL is on the Ontario County line: http://www.cohp.org/ny/Monroe_1.html This may explain why Pinnacle Hill became the primary local antenna farm, not to mention that it casts a shadow on signals transmitted from the south. With Pinnacle so close to the market's center of population, there is less need for "superpower" than in a situation like WAMC's, WNED's, or WNTQ's.
 
While not a "rule" by any stretch, I think a lot of the super-powered stations tended to be wherever there were mountains. It wasn't just a case of having rilly-rilly-rilly high ERP's as much as it was having what a lot of us would consider "normal" ERP's at extremely high HAAT's. My current location, California, exemplifies that: most of the "Class B" stations here pre-date the Class Rules and are running 15 to 35kW ERP, but doing it from short towers on top of mountains...often 3000 to 5000ft AMSL. The post-Class stations typically run less than 1kW from the same towers. Makes for great in-car coverage but building penetration stinks to high heaven, lemme tell ya. Plus FM around mountains is a cast-iron pain in the ass no matter how you slice it. Even with 35kW there's lots of stations I can't get in dozens of places along the major highways because while the antennas are on the tallest peaks, the roadway passes go through the lowest parts between peaks, and thus there's inevitably a lot of shadowing.

For that matter, being a superpowered FM isn't always all that and a bag of chips: look at the problems WGBH has getting into downtown Boston. Even though they're on top of a mountain, and even though that mountain is only a few miles from downtown, and even though they have 98kW...they still don't penetrate the multipath hell that is Boston nearly as well as the stations on the Prudential Tower or One Financial Center do. Or look at WHOM, which has a wonderfully huge signal from the ultimate in New England mountains (Mt Washington) that covers a lot of nothing because there aren't any population centers really anywhere near Mt Washington; they depend heavily on what is technically their fringe coverage. Although I've often wondered if WHOM would benefit from a series of strategically-placed on-channel boosters. (shrugs)
 
I'm in Class C land. we have lots of 100KW stations at 1500 to 2000 feet up! In many cases antenna height is more important than power.
 
Mike Sheridan said:
Some of the super-power FM's had to back it down when they applied for things like more antenna height.
Click to expand...
I always assumed that the reason that Grand Rapids on 93.7 dropped from 470KW when they added Vertical polarization was that a combination of transmitter and antenna to produce a total ERP of 940KW (470H and 470V) simply did not exist...and quite possibly still does not exist. With a 12 bay antenna, that would take roughly 75KW at the antenna, probably 80-90KW from the transmitter. I've never seen (or even heard of) an FM transmitter anywhere near that power rating.
 
Back in 2003, I think, I consulted for a station in Dubai (United Arab Emirates) that was 1.4 MEGAwatts of ERP. Yes, one-point-four million watts. I think the tower was about 2000ft tall, too...and located almost 60 miles outside the city. The beam angle on that sucker was incredibly narrow. IIRC, they had a 14 bay full-wave-spaced antenna. Don't recall the TPO.

I know Nautel had a 40kW TPO transmitter available at NAB a few years ago...and can't you combine those suckers to double the power? I'm sure that's not cheap, but I think it's do-able.
 
aaronread said:
Back in 2003, I think, I consulted for a station in Dubai (United Arab Emirates) that was 1.4 MEGAwatts of ERP. Yes, one-point-four million watts. I think the tower was about 2000ft tall, too...and located almost 60 miles outside the city. The beam angle on that sucker was incredibly narrow. IIRC, they had a 14 bay full-wave-spaced antenna. Don't recall the TPO.

I know Nautel had a 40kW TPO transmitter available at NAB a few years ago...and can't you combine those suckers to double the power? I'm sure that's not cheap, but I think it's do-able.
Click to expand...
It stands to reason that you can combined a pair of 40's to make 80Kw...I've just never seen it done. Let say for the sake of argument that the 1.4 Megawatt FM was horizontal only and the 14 bay antenna had a power gain of 15. That amounts to over 93KW into the antenna...easily over 100KW at the transmitter based on the 2000' height. Of course, if it were circular polarity as most things are today, make that 200KW TPO. Even at 100KW, we're getting into the range of combining power levels that probably don't exist...unless they have already been combined. That's a mind blowing proposition! If you have pictures of that transmitter plant, I'd love to drool over them. Bet they make the electric utility very happy.
 
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