Why work in radio anymore?

[amfmxm]

Now, having said all that, let me reiterate that radio--on the air or in sales (the two primary areas for employment)--is a performance business. That means that if you don't perform/produce, you don't get to stick around.

This industry is (or at least was) full of people who are very good at what they do, but who were cut in "cost-cutting" measures by their own employers. I've read multiple examples of that here, including one here, just this week, on this thread!

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=151855.10

(Scroll all the way to the bottom of page 2)

In other words, it IS possible to be "too good for your own good." No good deed goes unpunished.

FWIW, the best way to cite a specific posting might be to do the good ol' cut & paste. I tried to find the one you were referring to, but just got the whole thread...

Yes, good people have gotten unfairly riffed. Though the current "downsizing" is forefront right now, the 1996 Telecom Bill triggering massive consolidation took a huge toll--as five or six or eight stations were rolled into one. In the nicest way possible--I got a big check on my way out--I experienced it, first-hand, when the station I was managing very successfully got rolled into a cluster. In fact, it happened twice. Big deal. Nothing personal. They had people lined up and I wasn't related. So I shopped myself around and landed another, even better, gig. Life's not fair, but it ain't that bad.

To use the NFL analogy again... Kurt Warner gets axed by the Rams after winning a Super Bowl and taking SL to two of them. So he bounces around, snags the Cards' starting QB job and takes AZ to the Super Bowl. And when Green Bay kisses Bret Favre goodbye he lets the Jets lure him to NYC for a year until he can get the job he really wanted--with the Vikes for $12 million.

So if you're a talented air personality... or an outstanding salesperson... or a great programmer... there's always opportunity. As long as human beings are involved--not just in radio, but in any industry--there's always the chance that your own individual talent may not be appropriately appreciated.

But there's always another chance to prove those people wrong and enjoy whatever level of success you deserve.

 

[firepoint525]

Well, I said "scroll to the bottom of the page," but here it is, again:

I keep hearing about "warm body" and "four and hit the door" shifts, and "the gravy train". Where in radio Hell do (did?) these exist. I've NEVER seen that in a lifetime in radio. I've never known a jock - other than an overnight guy who already pulled 6 hours on-air, usually 6 days a week, who didn't have "other duties" to fill out the rest of a 40 hour week, along with remotes, appearances, and station events. Some of those additional appearances were compensated, some not.

OK, maybe some major market talent wrapped up their show and headed for their agent's office to coordinate their myriad appearances and "other opportunities", but the station (as well as the jock) benefitted from any additional notoriety.

As far as the "gravy train" is concerned, the closest I ever saw to a "gravy train" was a senior account rep who'd built a hell of a list, and a hell of a rapport with his clients, who could turn a hell of a buck without breaking a sweat. What happend to him? He "cost too much", got cut, and his list divvied up between the LSM, GSM, and a couple of younger sales people. What happened to the revenue? Dropped like a rock. Oddly, the CUSTOMERS liked and trusted the guy, and went elsewhere when he did - even though the competition had lower ratings.

Oh, wait, I have seen the radio "gravy train". It's the regional VP who goes from market to market kibitzing, and reports to upper management who are too busy lunching with the board and the bankers to actually talk with market managers directly. Somehow, it seems to me that the millions spent on that level of management could be put to better use.

 

[firepoint525]

More where that came from:

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=152087.0

I'm sure that there are more stories like these on almost every local message board on this site.

 

[amfmxm]

More where that came from:

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=152087.0

I'm sure that there are more stories like these on almost every local message board on this site.

Yes, there are. But they don't have to be your story. You can make your own success, whether it is in radio or not.

 

[firepoint525]

More where that came from:
http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=152087.0
I'm sure that there are more stories like these on almost every local message board on this site.

Yes, there are. But they don't have to be your story. You can make your own success, whether it is in radio or not.

Thanks, and yes, I'm doing exactly that. I hope to be in the medical billing/coding field a year from now.

Everyone check out the Occupational Outlook Handbook. (It's online, too) Do a search for radio announcers, disc jockeys, whatever. You'll see that the outlook ain't too great!

 

[radiolistener66]

Thanks, and yes, I'm doing exactly that. I hope to be in the medical billing/coding field a year from now.

Everyone check out the Occupational Outlook Handbook. (It's online, too) Do a search for radio announcers, disc jockeys, whatever. You'll see that the outlook ain't too great!

What little I know about personality profiling tells me that people who want to do billing & coding work are not the same personality types as those who would thrive in the fairly unstructured environment of entertainment or sales tha make up the core of radio--unless its the traffic/billing job, which is actually pretty similar to medical billing & coding.

Has it ever occurred to you to pursue radio traffic & billing jobs? Within the wild world of radio, those jobs might be the most secure.

Just a thought.

 

[firepoint525]

Thanks, and yes, I'm doing exactly that. I hope to be in the medical billing/coding field a year from now.
Everyone check out the Occupational Outlook Handbook. (It's online, too) Do a search for radio announcers, disc jockeys, whatever. You'll see that the outlook ain't too great!

What little I know about personality profiling tells me that people who want to do billing & coding work are not the same personality types as those who would thrive in the fairly unstructured environment of entertainment or sales tha make up the core of radio--unless its the traffic/billing job, which is actually pretty similar to medical billing & coding.
Has it ever occurred to you to pursue radio traffic & billing jobs? Within the wild world of radio, those jobs might be the most secure.
Just a thought.

Thanks, I'm just looking for the opportunity to (eventually) work from home. I am tired of the long commutes. I am about 20 miles from the nearest station (the one I last worked for).

 

[davideduardo]

This industry is (or at least was) full of people who are very good at what they do, but who were cut in "cost-cutting" measures by their own employers.

Most of the cost cutting has to do with the economy, not with radio. When the #1 source of revenue in the past, cars and car dealers, essentially goes away, and the whole economy is off in double digit percentages, do you expect radio to be able to survive with the same expense structure?

 

[firepoint525]

This industry is (or at least was) full of people who are very good at what they do, but who were cut in "cost-cutting" measures by their own employers.

Most of the cost cutting has to do with the economy, not with radio. When the #1 source of revenue in the past, cars and car dealers, essentially goes away, and the whole economy is off in double digit percentages, do you expect radio to be able to survive with the same expense structure?

Doesn't tell the whole story. Stations have been cutting for years, and have any corporate radio station company CEOs had their pay cut, or positions eliminated?

Sometimes, I wonder if these people ever listen to their own product, and if not, why not?

 

[TheBigA]

Stations have been cutting for years, and have any corporate radio station company CEOs had their pay cut, or positions eliminated?

That's an interesting question. Most CEOs don't get much in actual salary. The majority of their "compensation" comes from company stock. Some stock is given in lieu of pay, and some stock is sold as "options" at favorable prices. With radio stock prices selling for pennies, all radio CEOs have experienced huge multi-million dollar pay cuts.

Some CEOs like Mel Karmazin and Farid Suleman actually used their own personal money to buy stock in their companies. Even air talent like Imus and Howard Stern are huge stockholders in their companies. Have you ever done that? When people who work for straight salary complain about CEO pay, the question I want to ask is how much of your own personal money do you have invested in the company. Because quite often, the CEO is usually more than an hourly employee. And if you respond by saying they're different, then that's why. Until you have your own personal money invested the company, you're not the same as the CEO. You're just the hired help.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Even air talent like Imus and Howard Stern are huge stockholders in their companies. Have you ever done that? When people who work for straight salary complain about CEO pay, the question I want to ask is how much of your own personal money do you have invested in the company. Because quite often, the CEO is usually more than an hourly employee. And if you respond by saying they're different, then that's why. Until you have your own personal money invested the company, you're not the same as the CEO. You're just the hired help.

Great Economics course text-book answer, BigA..... but a really misplaced response for a debate with Firepoint. You two guys live in two different worlds in more ways than one. In the area where Firepoint lives and works, and the stations he has been associated with, you're whole argument is moot except for one indirect effect. Working radio in the rural South has been a significantly different game than radio in Metropolitan Northeastern markets. Firefly grew up looking around him and saying.... "I get the idea how things are put together" so set about to find his place in life.

Then came consolidation and the nearest thing to seeing your side of the world, BigA, came when the consolidators rolled into Nahsville, bought up everything in site, moved stations into town from what used to be non-metro markets, and left rural American radio out there with everybody sucking their thumbs.... asking "What the hell is going on? Mama never explained there would be days like this!" Firefly and a lot of other people were left simmering in the spilled-over broth of transactions just near enough to him to get in the splatter and spillage.

I was 47 years old before the reality of corporate dependence on aptitude tests and all this other advice people have offered Firefly in this thread became a reality for me. I worked for 13 different radio stations and I don't think any of them were publicly held. Oh, did I want to personally invest some money the company for which I was working, but that was not an option.

And if the dot-com bust taught us anything, THE LAST place you want to invest any significant money is the place where you work.... unless you are up in that group that gets the stock options, etc, etc, etc.

 

[TheBigA]

Great Economics course text-book answer, BigA..... but a really misplaced response for a debate with Firepoint.

Doesn't matter. There is no equality is American capitalism. CEOs are paid more for a reason. They take a stake in their company, while the workers don't. If you don't have a stake in your company, you have no grounds to criticize those who do. That is simply unfair.

There is this myth of democracy and equality in this country. But it's just a myth.

….moved stations into town from what used to be non-metro markets, and left rural American radio out there with everybody sucking their thumbs...

I think you’re reinventing history. The first move-ins came in the 1920s. WJZ was moved from Newark NJ to New York City. Many more followed. Then came the explosion of new licenses granted by a greedy FCC in the early 80s. That was really the kiss of death. Small rural areas found themselves with six radio stations competing for 20,000 listeners. That was fine as long as those 20,000 listeners had no other media. But when the internet came, and other commercial consolidation destroyed what was left of the rural economy, those radio stations were very expensive toys in search of support. Those towns had no business getting all those radio stations in the first place.

And if the dot-com bust taught us anything, THE LAST place you want to invest any significant money is the place where you work.... unless you are up in that group that gets the stock options, etc, etc, etc.

No one is requiring anyone to do anything. But if you’re going to criticize the CEO and the amount of money he makes, you should at least stand in his shoes for a few minutes.

There are only two ways for American broadcasting to exist: Private investment or some form of government ownership. We have both systems in this country now, with the government ownership mainly in the non-commercial world. If the private investment part tanks, the only alternative is more government ownership. When that happens the only CEO to criticize will live at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. His salary is set by Congress.

 

[davideduardo]

Doesn't tell the whole story. Stations have been cutting for years,[/quote]

I have seen an ad for WOR in New York from the 40's (www.amercianradiohistory.com) recognizing the over-100-person engineering staff in the studios and at the manned transmitter. That is probably more people just in engineering than at the whole station today.

When equipment improved, WOR cut from several to one person at the transmitter. When equipment improved again, they reduced the studio staff and eliminated transmitter techs. And so on...

So, yes, radio has been cutting for perhaps half a century. Oh, go check the man hours it took to make a car in 1960 vs. today. Or the man-seconds per bottle or can of a soft drink. Every field has benefited from technology, and jobs have shifted from producing things to supporting things and a service economy... in other words, radio is not unique in having gone through many changes.

and have any corporate radio station company CEOs had their pay cut, or positions eliminated?

Let's start with Jeff Smulyan of Emmis... a buck a year till the company recovers.

Sometimes, I wonder if these people ever listen to their own product, and if not, why not?

Of course they do. The ones that don't are quickly gone. Competition, not regulation, controls that kind of thing.

 

[elchupacabras]

Or the man-seconds per bottle or can of a soft drink. Every field has benefited from technology, and jobs have shifted from producing things to supporting things and a service economy... in other words, radio is not unique in having gone through many changes.

Not always. Have you tasted a soft drink these days as compared to the sixties, seventies or early 80's? It is awful. No cane sugar and in an ugly plastic bottle. The old stuff was simply a better product. Sure, you can get by with the new-fangled crap, but it's not the same quality.

A local news team, with multiple reporters will always trump somebody outsourced from miles away.

Changes do happen, but they do not necessarily enhance the product. Just as the soft drink makers started to introduce corn syrup as a cost cutting measure, radio has done the same with overuse and abuse of technology. It doesn't account for all of the problems in the industry, but it does contribute. And because there are so few cane sugar beverages out there, people put up with an inferior product. Same thing with radio.

 

[davideduardo]

Not always. Have you tasted a soft drink these days as compared to the sixties, seventies or early 80's? It is awful. No cane sugar and in an ugly plastic bottle. The old stuff was simply a better product. Sure, you can get by with the new-fangled crap, but it's not the same quality.

I think the best thing, and this comes from technology, is the elimination of all sugar. It's better for everyone.

As to the advantages of plastic bottles, beginning with safety, hygene and weight, I could go on for quite a while.

But my point had nothing to do with the product, which is a different consideration. The reduction in the personnel at every radio station began right after the last world war, not after consolidation. Whether radio programming is better or worse is a separate issue.

A local news team, with multiple reporters will always trump somebody outsourced from miles away.

Not always. It's very possible to do an amazing job without staff reporters. When I took a new news station against a very heritage one in PR, they had a huge staff and a dozen mobile units. We had none. We used reverse directories to get breaking news by calling a person on the scene. We were done with the story when the other station was just arriving. A couple of guys in a suburb in studios the size of phone booths put the traditional station to shame; they ended up selling to an out of market company.

Changes do happen, but they do not necessarily enhance the product. Just as the soft drink makers started to introduce corn syrup as a cost cutting measure, radio has done the same with overuse and abuse of technology. It doesn't account for all of the problems in the industry, but it does contribute. And because there are so few cane sugar beverages out there, people put up with an inferior product. Same thing with radio.

Transmitter operators were neeed because the gear originally was ornery and not too stable. Advancements made stability a constant, and operators were not needed. That's one example, but we can't deny that $100 software on an $800 laptop can sometimes do better radio than a $30 k studio of yesteryear.

 

[SirRoxalot]

I'd like to thank "TheBigA" and Mr. Eduardo for such clear insight into the thinking at the corporate level of broadcasting. That should tell you all you need to know about what to expect if you pursue a career in radio.

 

[TheBigA]

I'd like to thank "TheBigA" and Mr. Eduardo for such clear insight into the thinking at the corporate level of broadcasting. That should tell you all you need to know about what to expect if you pursue a career in radio.

Of course we already know your pov: Corporate is bad, but take the money anyway. Personal ethics aren't important as long as the check clears.

If you're in radio for the art, I have a place for you. But the money's not as good. Greed exists on all levels, including yours.

 

[smedge2006]

If you're in radio for the art, I have a place for you. But the money's not as good.

At the current rate, whatever it is, it'll soon be better than 99 percent of commercial radio jobs.

Please spare us the CEO idolatry. The CEO-as-god movement began with guys like T. Boone Pickens pushing for higher CEO salaries so they would identify with their shareholders and expressly NOT identify with employees. Turns out in radio, that didn't work too well for the shareholders -- they are among consolidation's greatest victims.

Honest commentary on the radio industry has shown us that the emperors have no clothes. As for their "skin in the game", we all know the name of the game is OPM -- other people's money.

Corporate doesn't have to be bad -- corporate movies and TV shows do manage to be entertaining sometimes -- but the radio CEO's totally missed the ball and are probably the worst of the worst. In fact, it has been pointed out quietly amongst other media bigwigs that the misbehavior of consolidated radio probably spoiled any chance for the foreseeable future of the kinds of deregulation that TV, newspapers and other old media were hoping for.

Everybody knows it's show BUSINESS but lately it's been more like show
BUSINESS.

Big A, if you were a radio operator trying to recruit young people just starting out, what would your speech to them be?

 

[TheBigA]

Big A, if you were a radio operator trying to recruit young people just starting out, what would your speech to them be?

I'll tell them the same advice I was told: Market thyself. It's not who you know, or what you know, but both. You need to know everyone, keep in touch, network constantly, learn what everyone else is doing, grow, adapt, and don't get comfortable anywhere or with anything, because the only constant thing is change. And then, there's the old Kennedy paraphrase: Ask not what radio can do for you, but what you can do for radio. Make a prospective employer an offer they can't refuse. All those worked well for me. I've never been out of work.

 

[smedge2006]

It's very possible to do an amazing job without staff reporters. When I took a new news station against a very heritage one in PR, they had a huge staff and a dozen mobile units. We had none. We used reverse directories to get breaking news by calling a person on the scene. We were done with the story when the other station was just arriving.

By using cross-cross, you also reach a lot of P***ed-off people who have never heard of your radio station and don't want to talk to you. Walking up to someone on the street is far less an invasion of privacy than ringing their home telephone. You can also get into some dangerous situations -- such as the Florida radio station that tried to cover a cop killer who holed up in a gas station by calling gas stations near the interchange -- and wound up reaching the gunman. You also totally miss the feel of a situation on the scene, and the natural sound of the event occurring. The proliferation of cell phones as only-phones is making this method of newsgathering increasingly obsolete.

Most stations that give up street reporting end up presenting newscasts full of the usual suspects -- spokespeople and PR handouts.