wibg radio 99

[CHJ1950]

In Hy Lit's heyday there, I would listen to the 50,000 watt WIBG in northern monmouth county. After sunset the station couldn't be received at all, 60 miles from Philly. Yet, 5,000 watt WFIL came in loud and clear.
Can someone tell me if this was due to a power reduction, or WIBG pointed it's antenna in a southerly direction?

 

[kfsr]

WIBG operated on a Canadian clear channel with five towers directional day, and at 10,000 watts 4 towers directional night. WFIL operated on a low-end-of-the-dial regional channel with three towers. WFIL had greater bandwidth, superior day and night coverage, and was less directional than WIBG. WIBG had nighttime signal problems to the north, the south and the west..even in it's primary coverage area.

 

[cyber]

I remember their big "going to 50,000 watts" promotion at Independence Hall. I think the date was on or around Feb.22, 1959. I do remember it was snowing and the only "air personality" on the sidewalk handing out autographed pictures was car dealer Harold B. Robinson. The real jocks had sense enough to stay indoors.

 

[oaktree]

The WIBG signal always was problematic. It was either directional right into the ground and went nowhere or dissipated in thin air at night. It was a very "tight" pattern from the start of the 50,000 watt boost.

I lived in Wilmington and regularly heard WNOX in Knoxville like a local on many nights. It was tough to hear Joey Reynolds and John Records Landecker on WIBG even with great lengths of thin solid copper wire out the window...but, we got by.

 

[qtpieislit]

While the Philadelphia 990 KHz pattern was, and is critically tight to the north and west to protect the Canadian neighbors, primarily CKGM, it loops 268,000+ watts daytime to the SE, (rtetro will have to chime in for the current nighttime specks, as he has just upgraded the night pattern). So, during Hy’s tenure at WIBG, he was often heard saying, “It’s Hy Lit, from your door to the shore”, as WIBG was strong and clear down the shore.
As for WFIL, 5,000 watts at the lower spectrum 560 KHz, has a relative signal power equivalent of 50,000 watts on 990 KHz, due to spectrum transmission variations. However, looking back at the late 60’s and early 70’s, WFIL was also using a 25,000 watt modulator in their 5,000 watt transmitter, therefore they were able to generate amplitude modulation positive peak of 155%, and sometimes greater, without harmonic distortion. This also gave Philadelphia 560 the appearance of a broader position on the AM dial, as generating greater amounts of positive peak amplitude modulation will deliver a broader spacing appearance on the dial. In the early 70’s, the FCC ruled that positive modulation peaks be limited to 125% in order to curtail this practice of what is now considered over modulation, analogue.
Even with the over modulation practice and the lower spectrum positioning, WFIL was and is a little harder to hear at the NJ coastal towns, due to their direction pattern, which is more liberal to the NW.

 

[amfmsw]

In reference to WFIL-AM technical abilities in 1968 or so...

1. There's no such thing as a 25000watt am modulator into an AM 5000 watt transmitter. It does not, has not ever existed. FM's DO use power amps called exciters to be multiplied in power, but it's 10 to 100 watts to thousands. Am does not work that way. Were you speaking of 102.1 WFIL-FM?

2. WFIL never modulated to 155%. Impossible on the Gates/RCA/Continental plate modulated transmitters of the day. If it could, it would sound like total crap, as the AM radios of the day would be totally overloaded in the IF sections. WFIL sounded great, WIBG sounded fuller and richer in my opinion. Archie Sitchell, WIBG Chief Engineer liked full, EQ'd modulation, slight reverb, and ran an oscilliscope on the modulation to keep it legal. Side by side aircheck comparisons will bear this out.

3. At 560 Kc, WFIL did not particularly enjoy wider audio bandwidth. It DID, however, enjoy a longer wavelength, which carried the signal further on fewer watts. The lower the frequency, the longer the wavelength. Part of WIBG's difficulties were the impedance matching of the towers, the phase "swishing" as you drove between lobes put out by each stick (then 5), and the problematic, water cooled, custom built RCA "Ampliphase" transmitters Wibbage used. 50kw for day, and a seperate 10kw for night and back-up for servicing the main momma. Most of the stations in this area used RCA transmitters because ANY part needed in an emergency was available with a short ride to the factory in Camden.

We need Frank Hogan to speak for WFIL.

 

[simonbarrsinister]

mplitude-frequency-short wins! ;D

 

[qtpieislit]

Bill, I appreciate and thank you for your expertise on this matter. What I should have said, is they took a modulator section from a 25,000 watt transmitter and put it in their 5,000 watt transmitter. The original WFIL equipment wound up at 117 ridge pike, so rtetro can perhaps speak of the exact modification process, and capacity of WFIL’s original transmitter/s. They demonstrated with ease, what we consider today as being over modulation until the FCC defined positive peak at 125%.

 

[chuckydoll]

A big difference between Wibbage and Famous 56

AM 990 (WIBG/WZZD/WNTP) runs 50 kw-D, 10 kw-N, DA-2. The main lobe goes southeast day and night to protect CBW-990 in Winnipeg. CKGM was on 980 until the early 90's.

WFIL runs 5 kw-U, DA-2. On day pattern the main lobes are NW/SE, which is why Famous 56 beat Wibbage in Montgomery County. Night pattern has the main lobe SE.

 

[LA_Guy]

Gates made such a transmitter

Back in the late 1960's/early 1970's, Gates Radio (now Harris Broadcast) made a 5 kW AM transmitter with a 10 kW modulator (with its own power supply). LOTS of 5 kW AM stations bought this rig, as it could EASILY modulate in excess of 200% positive. This rig (and others like it that were modded by engineers) are the reason the FCC REDUCED the positive peak limit to 125%. Prior to the rule change, there was NO LIMIT to how much an AM station could modulate in the positive direction. The reason for the limit was to reduce splatter. NRSC has made the positive peak limit redundant, and it's now yet another FCC rule with no reason for its existance.

 

[DG02816]

Adding a footnote:

I worked in the late 80s for the 990 in Providence RI. They were a 50 kW daytimer that went on the air originally in late 1959 or thereabouts. A"Beautiful Music" station at that time with the call WLKW, they used an RCA BTA 50G Ampliphase as the main rig. This monster was air cooled rather than water cooled. I'm not sure if Providence protected CBW in Winnipeg or CBY Corner Brook Nfld., but they did need to go off the air at night to protect WIBG. When I worked there, the station was doing MOYL under the call WEAN. It had gotten night authorization of 500 watts, later boosted to 5 kW using the same 6 tower day pattern under different ownership and a change of COL as WALE. It is now dark.

Dave Gardiner

WVCH 740/WNWR 1540

Philadelphia

 

[DaveWilliams]

And in the 70's, the combo CBS Audiomax/Volumax units had a selectable positive peak output with the max setting being 300%!

 

[rtetro]

Re: Gates made such a transmitter

Back in the late 1960's/early 1970's, Gates Radio (now Harris Broadcast) made a 5 kW AM transmitter with a 10 kW modulator (with its own power supply). LOTS of 5 kW AM stations bought this rig, as it could EASILY modulate in excess of 200% positive. This rig (and others like it that were modded by engineers) are the reason the FCC REDUCED the positive peak limit to 125%. .

WFIL did, in fact, have such a transmitter. It was a Gates BC-5H with a 10KW modulator. It is sitting in our garage at WFIL-WNTP. Other than the 10kw modulator section, it's a standard 5H. According to the paperwork I have on the rig, the transmitter was indeed capable of positive modulation of 160%.

When I worked out in Colorado Springs in the mid-80s while attending college, the AM station I worked for, KVOR 1300 (now 740) had a similar 5kw rig with a 10kw modulator manufactured by CCA.

I've also heard that WABC had a 50kw transmitter with a 100kw modulation, although I don't know if this is true or not.

Such rigs were quite popular before the 125% limit was instituted.

Wibbage didn't stand a chance audiowise against such a rig, because their old circa 1958 RCA BTA-50G Ampliphase (or should I say "Amplifuzz") rig was designed for symetrical modulation...although I was able to get about 110% modulation out off it in the WZZD days in the 80s by using an original Optimod 9000.

One interesting fact about the old wibbage system is that they used a specially built negative peak limiter designed by the engineers at Storer Broadcasting, which was placed in service at all Storer's AM stations. (I also have one of these in the basement at WNTP-WFIL), This was able to let the postive peaks modulate freely while limiting the negatives to 99%. But, of course, with the limitations of the 50G, it still was no match against WFIL.

 

[rtetro]

Even with the over modulation practice and the lower spectrum positioning, WFIL was and is a little harder to hear at the NJ coastal towns, due to their direction pattern, which is more liberal to the NW.

\

Very true, Sam. The same holds true to this day. However, with the new WNTP day pattern, there is less signal towards the shore than there was in the old days. The old paperwork I have shows that the original 50kw pattern for WIBG was effectively about 250kw in the main lobe toward the shore (centered at 139.5 degrees). When we dropped the fifth tower in 1986 and let the day pattern out towards Allentown, the signal towards the shore dropped to about 200kw. With the new day pattern that we instituted in April, that had now dropped to about 170kw, because much of the signal has been re-oriented to the northeast and west --- hey, you can actually hear us in Lancaster, Reading, and New Hope, something no one ever thought would happen.

WFIL's effective power toward the shore during the day is about 9KW. But at night, when the pattern tightens off the back of the array, WFIL's effective power to the shore increases to about 15kw.

 

[rtetro]

I lived in Wilmington and regularly heard WNOX in Knoxville like a local on many nights. It was tough to hear Joey Reynolds and John Records Landecker on WIBG even with great lengths of thin solid copper wire out the window...but, we got by.

990 has always had problems at night, even with the loosened pattern after 1986. Wilmington was, and is, an area where the station has always had problems at night. Now the night interference comes, not just from knoxville, but from CKGM in Montreal and WALE in Providence (that is, when they aren't dark).

 

[rtetro]

While the Philadelphia 990 KHz pattern was, and is critically tight to the north and west to protect the Canadian neighbors, primarily CKGM, it loops 268,000+ watts daytime to the SE, (rtetro will have to chime in for the current nighttime specks, as he has just upgraded the night pattern). So, during Hy’s tenure at WIBG, he was often heard saying, “It’s Hy Lit, from your door to the shore”, as WIBG was strong and clear down the shore. \

Unfortunately, the changes we mad to the night pattern are extremely limited, and really have little or no effect on how well the station can be heard. It was more or less to bring the station closer to the FCC "standard pattern" for our allocation. The signal has increased somewhat at night in some directions, but not enough to be of an practical value. In the old WIBBAGE days, the rules required WIBG to place no signal whatsoever over the Canadian border, since 990 is a Canadian Clear channel. In the early 80s the rules changed so that we only had to give Canadian stations on 990 the protection we would give any station in the USA. It was at that point, we dropped the fifth tower and increased the night (and day patterns). The current night pattern is about the same as it has been since 1986.

That will hopefully change.....keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Band-Scanner]

WIBG was one of the few stations that actually mentioned their power drop/pattern change in an announcement. This was during the Paul Drew era. The announcement was something along the lines of:

"Turn up your radio now for more power from WIBG"

And right after that up in the Trenton area the TVI was much stronger than the night time coverage of WIBG. ! Both WFIL & WABC had solid night time signals in the area.

 

[Big Jay]

HIya..
And at sunrise, the announcement said..(Drake Tympani) " stand by for more power from WIBG Philadelphia..(noise..)then BOOOM.
God that was so cool.
Sam Lit remembers that stuff so I'm not alone..
BE BIG
www.bigjayandanita.com

 

[sarexpert]

Hi Sam, Rene and the rest of the folks

There is more to the story on both stations. The transmitter at WFIL was a BC-5HA which was the monster with a separate power supply for the modulator from the RF Amp. It was still in place when we rebuilt at the old site back when Jerry Lee wanted to make a run at Oldies with WFIL. The old phasor was a total mess that would not pass 3 kHz. The only thing that let WFIL talk was the giant modulator.

We put in new towers, ground system and a Nautel transmitter that improved things somewhat. The day array was still very narrowband - you can't make a wide bandwidth low end array with short spacing and nulls across the top. WFIL sounded pretty good then, we did get rid of the null talk, but it was no competition for WOGL!

We did that rebuild with Russ Mundschenck (now at HD Radio) and Bob Janney.

The original WIBG 50 kW array was a 5 tower monster built in 1947. It was built on pieces of sheet metal on plywood in the basement. The day I got there with Stu Engelke, we went down the basement about 1/2 hour after night pattern and poked our head into the phasor room before turning on the lights. It looked like someone was dragging on a joint in there, except the glow changed with the modulation. A clip on the night power divider was glowing red and burnt a hole half way through the 40 Amp coil!

In those days you could be at the tollbooth of the NE Extension and look at the tower lights at night and 990 had Canada on the radio. That is how tight the array was. From Ardmore around to Willow Grove there was NO signal at night - Just one beam across center city. The day signal was not that tight, but there was only about 1000 Watts out the back (except right towards Norristown)

The original night array never wanted to stay in adjustment. About 5 years before we rebuilt WZZD (WIBG) Slim Sulyma tamed it, and it stayed in a couple of years. I gotta give him credit - eight nulls all right down to zero signal on that array must have been a real bear to bring in with that junky old phasor.

We applied for the night improvements on a technicality in the US-Canadian agreement. The FCC agreed with my logic and granted the CP before the Canadians realized that we were not really protecting Newfoundland. After the antenna was rebuilt and the license application was "in the hopper" the Canadians expressed their reservations, and WIBG was on program tests for three years before they decided that they would clobber Corner Brook with CKGY, and not worry about a little heat from WIBG.

Another story - When Stu and I were tuning the 50 kW array, he reached over to move a tap on the humongous 80 Amp coil at tower 3 while the transmitter was on at 50 kW. I was sweeping the floor of the ATU building at the time and saw him move to the coil out of the corner of my eye and smacked him away with the broom handle. Better some bruises than catching that much RF. Stu has had enough in the way of burns!

Ted Schober

 

[oasisrulz]

Lets not forget the old WAMS during the 60's, a wasted 5kw daytime signal, with no coverage to the north, living in Philly they were unlistenable daytime, used to listen in Chester PA at that time and barely...and they were a good alternative to WIBG before WFIL came on in 66. Its funny now piggbacking on WILM's tower with less than half the power non directional they make it into Philly why couldnt Farley see this and rectify it....